Kundalini Thread

[三江源]

Apech rant edited.

 

PS yes, the search function needs some vitamin shots.

Edited July 27, 2013 by cat

[RiverSnake]

 

 

PS yes, the search function needs some vitamin shots.

 

Indeed

 

 

The mod team only pondered about pinning a locked thread where one could find some links and possibly small articles. Nothing more.

I agree.

[Songtsan]

But waht are your qualifications (so to speak) for doing this? If you are collating material as a resource that's one thing but if you are giving your own opinions ... then that's all they are.

 

I dont have much time to elaborate, but I have about 16 years experience with Kundalini, and have been extensively researching it since that time. My bio of sorts is here on the site under 'Just so everybody knows...' and I have also posted on Kundalini often, including one ~20 page post. I am heavily influenced by Stuart Sovatsky.

 

I would not be posting opinions so much as theories, including all the dominant ones going around at this time. I never said I know everything about it. What I am able and willing to do is provide a collection of competing theories and discuss the pros and cons of each. My goal would be to provide as much information as possible, without attempting to sway readers towards one theory or another.

[thelerner]

I think it a bad idea to pretend we have experts here.

 

A bad idea to set up as an advice dispensing service or helpline.

 

What we have a people helping each other and muddling around. Some muddled around longer than others.

 

Its a discussion forum. Nobody here is an expert. It would be pretentious to assume such a position.

 

Very pretentious.

 

A lot of what passes for 'kundalini' here, is not. Not by a long stretch.

 

This would be a forum of fakes if the invitation to masquerade as experts were taken up.

 

There is enough pseudo information out there, misleading, misdirecting, and adding to the ever growing pot of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' which actually results in the perpetuation of ignorance, chinese whispers style.

I agree with the spirit of this, but while most spout out there biased nonsense, we do indeed have some experts here. Genuine certified teachers, who are too often exasperated by the confidence rantings of newbies. I've been listening to Lin Aiwei's (from China) interviews and he's got my utmost respect as teacher.

 

Maybe by giving heavy 'Likes' to the competent we can influence members towards learning from those w/ both personal as well as teaching experience.

[Mal]

I feel the structure of (any) discussion forums makes it extremely difficult to use them as databases.

They were just not programmed with searchable as a highest priority. There is so much information on eg kundalini on the web but most of it is not accessed through a discussion forum, rather the sites are designed to present that information.

I sometime wonder if the raw data of the "threads" here could be accessed through a different user interface I.e. like using google with

Site:thetaobums.com to search just ttb

 

Does anyone have any examples of discussion forums that also have something like a reference/index of topics that is automatically create rather than maintained by people?

 

TTB is almost like a live discussion and once that discussion is finished it can feel like a waste to see great threads and ideas get "lost" site the page.

But over time as you read those disappearing threads and get to know the people posting in them, you get a very good idea of who knows what. Those active members are the great wealth of ttb, not the dust they have left behind

[Songtsan]

I like how Wikipedia does their stuff -they let the knowledgeable co-collaborate and produce pretty good stuff..obviously not everybody agrees with everything, bu it is a very useful service. That is why I suggested a co-creative project here...my interests in it are on the hot plate, and I probably have more experience/research/history/etc. than most people I know on this site. Sometimes people confuse confidence and brash honesty with arrogance and assume I am supercilious, just because I was in prison and do drugs. It's not like that, seriously...this is the one subject I probably have the spent the most time contemplating and researching, even and above my interest in enlightenment and health itself. I am fascinated by Kundalini, and an avid skeptic, so I am not easily caught up in dogma or delusional belief systems. I approach it from a scientific point of view. To me, science is equivalent to the spiritual search for truth. I also happen to have access to all the best databases for journal articles through the University of Rochester and RIT, and would be willing to go look up the most up-to-date info on it. Did you know that Kundalini and Qigong illness are included as topics and legitimate disorders in the DSM-IV? People tend to underestimate western science - they aren't stupid. Jung himself was interested in Kundalini and that was so far back.

[Apech]

I dont have much time to elaborate, but I have about 16 years experience with Kundalini, and have been extensively researching it since that time. My bio of sorts is here on the site under 'Just so everybody knows...' and I have also posted on Kundalini often, including one ~20 page post. I am heavily influenced by Stuart Sovatsky.

 

...

 

Who is this?

[Songtsan]

Who is this?

 

Google 'Stuart Sovatsky Kundalini' and become acquainted with one of my role models

[idiot_stimpy]

Why not just direct people here - http://biologyofkundalini.com/

[Songtsan]

Why not just direct people here - http://biologyofkundalini.com/

 

lots of misinformation there...just fyi

[三江源]

Why not just direct people here - http://biologyofkundalini.com/

I always do. I suggest we all do this whenever opportunity arises!

[三江源]

I agree with the spirit of this, but while most spout out there biased nonsense, we do indeed have some experts here. Genuine certified teachers, who are too often exasperated by the confidence rantings of newbies. I've been listening to Lin Aiwei's (from China) interviews and he's got my utmost respect as teacher.

 

Maybe by giving heavy 'Likes' to the competent we can influence members towards learning from those w/ both personal as well as teaching experience.

It would be nice if Lin posted here regularly. Apech had an idea for a section here for teachers to share what they can online, and for it to be free from the flaming, trolling, incredulous igorance, bickering etc which inevitably drives people away.. but it seems like a tricky thing to set up such a space.

 

One of the things that happens here is that genuine sharing and helping goes on off board, by pm etc, because that way, the absurdity of internet keyboard jockeys is avoided. One way or another, sharing is done, and probably the private methods that spin off are more fruitful in the long run. Sometimes I think the forum is 'front of house', merely.

[Songtsan]

Why not just direct people here - http://biologyofkundalini.com/

 

 

I always do. I suggest we all do this whenever opportunity arises!

 

Unfortunately the author, Jana Dixon, overextends herself in multiple areas in her effort to try to role-play being an 'expert,' whereas she is just one of many to experience Kundalini and have read a lot of books on the subject. She ends up just being a collator and re-poster of other authors' opinions and delves into many questionable topics that are still simply theories and have not yet been tested on any widespread basis- and yet she posts them as facts. That is what I would seek to avoid. State only those things which have been tested and retested in multiple arenas, include meta-analyses as often as possible, and be sure to make it known that these are only theories/models. Stick to mainly empirical/observational science and leave suppositions and assumptions out of it. Anyone pretending to be an expert in an official sense would be a self-proclaimed expert, as there are no university degrees in this subject. Instead of writing some sort of 'definitive guide,' it would be best to have a compilation of known and observable data, with rational explanations that simply give readers a sense of where to go next, v.s some attempt to pretend that the answer lies within the guide itself. I see it as more as a list of tried and true techniques and theories that have sound backing that could lead to further exploration, without any attempt to proselytize or convince people of any one set of beliefs. Sort of a compendium of rational systems without any adherence to mythology, superstition, etc. There is enough of that on the internet. Links could be included to these sites, but simply stick to basic facts and easily identified trends here.

[Mal]

One of the things that happens here is that genuine sharing and helping goes on off board, by pm etc, because that way, the absurdity of internet keyboard jockeys is avoided. One way or another, sharing is done, and probably the private methods that spin off are more fruitful in the long run. Sometimes I think the forum is 'front of house', merely.

 

Bolds mine I once read that Taoists use to frequent the gathering places of travelers and quitely watch the goings on ... waiting for the student to be ready

[rene]

Bolds mine I once read that Taoists use to frequent the gathering places of travelers and quitely watch the goings on ... waiting for the student to be ready

 

Bolds mine

[Songtsan]

It would be nice if Lin posted here regularly. Apech had an idea for a section here for teachers to share what they can online, and for it to be free from the flaming, trolling, incredulous igorance, bickering etc which inevitably drives people away.. but it seems like a tricky thing to set up such a space.

 

One of the things that happens here is that genuine sharing and helping goes on off board, by pm etc, because that way, the absurdity of internet keyboard jockeys is avoided. One way or another, sharing is done, and probably the private methods that spin off are more fruitful in the long run. Sometimes I think the forum is 'front of house', merely.

 

I couldn't agree more - that is why I suggested going into the scientific journal databases and actually reviewing the latest literature on the phenomena. I am willing to invest a lot of time and money into doing extensive research through the various professional journals that study this (and believe me, they are studying it all over the world). I was trained in college to do this kind of thing. I can present the views of the top psychiatrists, neuroscientists, etc. and provide reference information in an official format. I would basically be writing it as if I was submitting a graduate level paper on the subject. What they teach one is to write from a perspective that is detached from personal opinion, a sort of aggregate mind-stance which presents evidence based information from empirical studies. One does not present ones own opinions, but presents the educated theories of the people in the research end of things in academia. The compilation/thesis could present as an amalgamation of the most recent research, and be subdivided into various groupings - this would ensure that people would not be scared off by religious/metaphysical/etc. labels. They could find the section they feel is most appropriate to their position. Describing it from different paradigms would allow those of different paradigms to find their niche. It could be updated constantly as new information comes in.

[Trunk]

Btw, Trunk, I was thinking that you could select some of the most important infos from your alchemical taoism website and gather them in your PPF. Some future members may need alternative views about HT material.

 

New Healing Tao cautions thread in my PPF.

I've got some posts bookmarked that I'll add later. I'm cautious about the caution thread, lol, as I want it to be about informing and clarifying principle, not about fostering battle psychology. If, generally, students in any school become more clear about principles & method and as a result flourish in health, virtue and spirit *that* is what benefits us all.

 

p.s.

Added an intro statement to set tone and direction.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Trunk

[Bubbles]

Thanks a million times, Trunk

[Mal]

One does not present ones own opinions, but presents the educated theories of the people in the research end of things in academia.

 

That's cool, but personally I'd rather just ask my teacher if needed and preferably experience it myself, rather than reading the theories (even though I have an undergraduate degree in psychology)

Edited July 30, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[Songtsan]

That's cool, but personally I'd rather just ask my teacher if needed and preferably experience it myself, rather than reading the theories (even though I have an undergraduate degree in psychology)

 

I like knowing all the sides of something. I like to see how they inter-relate. Its a mind addiction of course. I can simply stop my mind and let the process unfold. I am like one of these people who is always trying to figure out how things work. I wish to penetrate the mystery, instead of letting the mystery move me along as it will. They say that for most of us, Maya leads us along with our eyes covered. In some paths however, we aim to uncover our eyes, while still letting Maya lead us.

[RiverSnake]

Here are some helpful threads i found for those whom may be suffering from Kundalini Syndrome. I will leave it up to the mods if they'd like to create a pinned post:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/21974-awaken-kundalini-in-90-days/

http://thetaobums.com/topic/28427-some-questions-about-kundalini-management-for-a-newbie-;/

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=Introduction

http://www.kundalinisupportnetwork.com/

 

What perhaps may be another useful link just recently posted on the forum: http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1979/cmar79/prano.shtml

 

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Trunk]

This idea of writing articles in my own PPF, pinning (and maybe locking) them: I like it. Like my own little "articles" section, but won't scroll away. Zero overhead, more low key than a website. So egalitarian, any bum can do it; I like it.

 

Now that I've gotten that little serious writing done and out of the way, a fun article idea that I've had in mind for a long time is bobbing to the surface.

 

It's a super fun board modification that only needed change of view - no change of rules or format. Way cool.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Trunk

[zerostao]

"Apech had an idea for a section here for teachers to share what they can online, and for it to be free from the flaming, trolling, incredulous igorance, bickering etc which inevitably drives people away.. but it seems like a tricky thing to set up such a space."

it is a good idea and like you say, it will be tricky to set up. i feel the current mods have kept this idea alive and have been taking care of other house keeping matters, i.e. placing the stewards.

i appreciate the input and insight from the former mods and other members. we do agree that we cannot put ourself as an expert endorsing particular teachers or schools. as individual members we can express freely our opinions/experiences about certain teachers/schools.

i look at the(imo) success of the flying phoenix thread as an example of how this could work here on ttb. i also agree about the 'front of the house' concept. as much as i do enjoy the 'wild west' attitude of free exchange here, and there have been gems and nuggets show up from time to time out in open forum. it is those unexpected pms from members i didnt even know existed here, that kept me hanging around when i thought i could use a break from the trollish bickerings.

there has been a lot of change on this board since i arrived. have we found the perfect model? of course not.

with sincere efforts we can continue to make this the community we all belong at.

[Apech]

"Apech had an idea for a section here for teachers to share what they can online, and for it to be free from the flaming, trolling, incredulous igorance, bickering etc which inevitably drives people away.. but it seems like a tricky thing to set up such a space."

it is a good idea and like you say, it will be tricky to set up. i feel the current mods have kept this idea alive and have been taking care of other house keeping matters, i.e. placing the stewards.

i appreciate the input and insight from the former mods and other members. we do agree that we cannot put ourself as an expert endorsing particular teachers or schools. as individual members we can express freely our opinions/experiences about certain teachers/schools.

i look at the(imo) success of the flying phoenix thread as an example of how this could work here on ttb. i also agree about the 'front of the house' concept. as much as i do enjoy the 'wild west' attitude of free exchange here, and there have been gems and nuggets show up from time to time out in open forum. it is those unexpected pms from members i didnt even know existed here, that kept me hanging around when i thought i could use a break from the trollish bickerings.

there has been a lot of change on this board since i arrived. have we found the perfect model? of course not.

with sincere efforts we can continue to make this the community we all belong at.

 

Hi,

 

I don't think that having say Ya Mu or someone of that ilk having a small section/threads devoted to Q&A about their particular system/practice is an endorsement by TBs but a response to popular demand (from a certain group of people). There's quite a bit (or there used to be) about Wang Liping ... there are current students of his and also interested people so what would be the problem with asking a suitably qualified representative to come and answer Q&As ... same for Max/Kunlun maybe and others e.g. KAP... maybe even some Buddhist groups would do it too. It would be clearly shown as separate from other discussions, would probably be time limited and would be strictly modded to remove disrespectful flaming, and deviation from the subject.

 

We had a very good Q&A from Bruce Franzis based on member questions which I helped collate for Sean ... didn't cause any problems at all and gave a lot of value ... why not do the same for others as the basis for the teachers corner/forum. I am and always have been perplexed why people see a problem with this and why any issues it might raise cannot be addressed.

 

I see it being introduced like this:

 

1. member nominate teachers they would like to know more about.

2. respectful approach to teachers asking if they would be willing to do an interview or come on line to answer direct questions ... or nominate a rep.

3. Create a thread which generates questions from TB members

4. Edit and collate questions

5. INterview teacher or create an online section for them to do it live

6. In all this make it clear that it is voluntary on the part of teachers and not an endorsement.

 

Tell me why this wouldn't work. And why it wouldn't raise the level of debate at TBs and also make this site a goto place for info?

[Flolfolil]

i am strongly for giving every established system its own sub board. i'd even go through everything in General and organize it all