Spiritual growth and the strain on marriage

[Nikolai1]

Hi all,

 

I’m going through a difficult time in my relationship and there is a strong feeling for us both that my interest in the spiritual life is a major part of the problem.

 

When we got together 9 years ago the spiritual life was on neither of our agendas , although we were both open to the idea of higher realities and on the God question would have called ourselves agnostic. But from the beginning it is fair to say that I was always more intellectual and idealistic, and my wife was more down to earth and concerned with practical affairs. When we met we were both clinical psychologists.

 

Over the years the issues that arose at work forced me to think very deeply about the nature of the world we live in and question many things that we normally take for granted: for example, the freedom of the will, the nature of good and evil, the relationship between body and mind.

 

I became increasingly disillusioned with my work and in a state of what felt like intellectual paralysis, I decided to quit being a psychologist. Although my wife was supportive, she naturally found it threatening that I rejected a career that she still very much believed in.

 

In the months that followed I had no hope that I could ever settle intellectually the doubts about the world that I had and so decided to pursue a completely different means of enquiry: meditation. The idea came from my reading of eastern philosophy, particularly Zen and Taoism.

 

After my practice started to become established I started to gain insights that have completely changed the way I think about everything. It’s still hard to say what this is, but I often say that I realized that there is a part of me that is eternal and exists completely outside of time and space, and that that part of me is always there looking at the world. This insight has become my basic ground and all the contradictions that used to bother me are now nothing more than passing mental events. These insights started about four years ago. Since then it has become very obvious that I am a spiritual seeker on a spiritual path, and I am now able to read religious scriptures from all traditions with what seems like a lively understanding.

 

My wife, on the other hand, has, if anything, become even more atheistic and less interested in spiritual possibilities. She not only cannot understand what I talk about, but gets irritated by it and even dismisses it as ‘daydreams’.

 

Throughout this period it has been easy to just stay silent on our respective beliefs and respect the difference. But it is increasingly leading to conflict that neither of us can help.

 

For example, consistent with my wife’s belief that we are biological beings destined to live and die, she is naturally very concerned with health and well-being. A great deal of her efforts are geared to making sure that her life is as healthy and as long as possible. We had a night without the kids and I decided to get some snacks for a movie night. She took one look at the ingredients on some tortillas and started shouting and actually crying, saying that I deliberately try to sabotage her diet. I, on the other hand, simply cannot comprehend the importance that she attaches to bodily health. In fact, for me, if anything is going to be detrimental to health it is getting uptight and stressed over what seem to me trifling matters. Basically, it seems that my consciousness has found grounding in the eternal whereas hers is grounded in time, space and eventual extinction. As time goes on I forget how it feels to fear death and disease - and this makes me inattentive to who she is and what she sees as important.

 

If this situation continues our relationship will become unworkable. I cannot go back to where she is, but I have little faith that she will come round to my worldview. If I try to talk about it she will literally walk out the room in anger.

 

I fear for our relationship and I was wondering if anyone here has been through a similar situation and can offer advice. If you need more information I could have gone on and on with examples…

 

Many thanks and my very best wishes to you all

[thetaoiseasy]

best wishes.

Edited September 8, 2013 by thetaoiseasy

[Trunk]

The spiritual path can be rough on marriages (often destroy them), especially if you going through the first initiatory years. I've seen it happen to married couples in meditation groups I've been in. Sorry I don't know enough to offer constructive advice. Just letting you know that it's not uncommon. Best to you both.

[Protector]

Abandon all the spiritual. Everybody has spiritual needs that arise at some time in life and sometimes they go away when you think you've got what you needed. Sometimes you get trapped in the world of the spiritual people who have fancy books exercises and meditations. You would buy a book to get answers about the universe then start doing qi gong then buy another book then you will meditate until the end of your life. There's always some bigger secret of the universe to unravel and some powerful master who you would like to catch up with. It's like being hungry and looking at the menu without ordering anything, there's always something better.

You should hold onto that feeling of wonder and don't bother going in too deep, it can suck your life away. It's better to be a child who looks at the stars asking where they came from then an adult who doesn't bother looking up because he knows every star and constellation. Your world is beautiful and you can show it when people are ready.

[Jetsun]

You are ripe and she isn't, her time will come but you can't force it. Perhaps you will be an example to her, if she witnesses your awakening it may open her eyes a little which one day she will be eternally grateful for even if it creates short term problems, maybe that's the reason why you got married, I don't know. But from your perspective I don't think there is any turning back, when you die it is your spiritual practice which will aid you, your marriage won't give you refuge and you could die today so I don't think you have any option except to keep going.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[三江源]

Nikolai1, you said once that you see women as goddesses. Your goddess doesnt want tortillas.

 

 

As time goes on I forget how it feels to fear death and disease - and this makes me inattentive to who she is and what she sees as important.

[taijistudent]

I have had too somewhat similar experiences in my life so I will relate to you as they transpired and hopefully the information will assist you in some ways.

 

I am a somewhat spiritual person, but it is more of an individualistic spiritualism. My wife on the other hand favored more of a group spiritualism. About 10 years ago she decided to join a Buddhist group (the group changed over time), and became more and more drawn into the group to the extent it seemed that she was looking for a new family in exchange for the one she had with me and my son. It was confusing for everyone.

 

The upshot was that she finally decided she was going to train to become a Buddhist priest and she left me (my son went to college) for a new life (she was 55). We had been together for over 30 years. Over the next five years things did not turn out as expected and the Buddhist life that she was training for turned out to be much different than she expected. Lots of internal fighting and dissension as people vied for power, status and authority.

 

In the meantime, I met another woman who was Catholic. At first she suggested that she was not a practicing Catholic but over time she became more and more drawn to the religion of her family. This left me the odd person out. It felt like I was an outsider for all things happening in her life. That relationship lasted about 5 years but the strain of the different spiritual lives (particularly her desire to be the matriarch of the Catholic family and have me convert) was too much for our relationship to handle.

 

After this, my ex-wife was having many emotional problems that emanated from her lifestyle choices. I helped her get out of these problems. She is much better now and we have an excellent relationship. She is much more moderate in her spiritual views and rather than dominate her life, it only occupies a small segment. Having broad net of activities has definitely stabilized her life as opposed to her concentration on just one aspect, i.e. her spirituality.

Edited March 7, 2013 by taijistudent

[mYTHmAKER]

For example, consistent with my wife’s belief that we are biological beings destined to live and die, she is naturally very concerned with health and well-being. A great deal of her efforts are geared to making sure that her life is as healthy and as long as possible. We had a night without the kids and I decided to get some snacks for a movie night. She took one look at the ingredients on some tortillas and started shouting and actually crying, saying that I deliberately try to sabotage her diet. I, on the other hand, simply cannot comprehend the importance that she attaches to bodily health. In fact, for me, if anything is going to be detrimental to health it is getting uptight and stressed over what seem to me trifling matters. Basically, it seems that my consciousness has found grounding in the eternal whereas hers is grounded in time, space and eventual extinction. As time goes on I forget how it feels to fear death and disease - and this makes me inattentive to who she is and what she sees as important.

Your wife's reaction is most likely from you pushing your spirituality. 'Spiritual' people can really be annoying. Just be - it would be wise to keep doing your thing and perhaps she will see the change in you - stop talking about it - you may be obsessing. Your wife's reaction may also be due to fear of losing you. In your wife's defense she is right about food, about what we put in our bodies. If you want her to see your truth you have to see hers. Respect her ways. It is difficult to meditate - enjoy life if ones body is not working properly, if one is sick. Extending life allows more time to do whatever it is you want to do - and to be happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2013 by mYTHmAKER

[hydrogen]

Wow, so many good insights that I can use myself as well.

 

Love conquers all. Love yourself, love your wife, love your kids and love everyone and everything around you. The "solution" will present itself sooner or later.

 

It takes time to learn new skills. I remember it took me a while to learn swimming. In the process, I choked on the dirty water, had cramped legs and minor ear infection. I took swimming to be healthy not to be sick. The set backs didn't stop me learning. Eventually I succeeded.

 

The spiritual development is a lot harder. Allow yourself more time and patience, and occasionally set backs. If you can do that, you automatically give your wife more time and patience.

 

Enjoy the journey. Buddha said it's better travel well than arrive early. What's the rush? We have all the time in the world.

 

I heard that Finland is a beautiful country. I might visit it some day. To be honest, don't treat me tortillas that I can have it every day here. Can you prepare some Finland specialty if I visit you?

[taijistudent]

Enjoy the journey. Buddha said it's better travel well than arrive early. What's the rush? We have all the time in the world.

Yes, I very much agree.

 

I once was attending a spiritual presentation and the spiritualist was exhorting the attendees to do this and to that (all in her book). And I asked her whether she believed in a forever soul that is always learning from one life to the next, and she responded yes. So, I asked her what was the rush? We'll get there when we get there and if not this life then maybe the next?

Edited March 7, 2013 by taijistudent

[Nikolai1]

Yes, thank you all for some amazing replies. One theme that came up quite a bit is the idea that I’ve been pushing my spirituality at her. Actually, the opposite is more the truth. I find it very hard to talk about my spiritual life, and I don’t expect my wife to understand anyway. It is therefore more like ‘an elephant in the room’ in that she can see how important my practice is to me but I can’t really talk about it and she doesn’t really ask.

 

For me the big problem is the way worldviews widen between a person on the spiritual path and one who isn’t. And I’m NOT talking about our conscious philosophies and beliefs. I cannot be concerned about my diet in the way she is. I simply do not recognise health and longevity issues when they arise because they are not a part of my reality. I no longer ‘have the ears to hear’ her concerns about health and longevity. And in turn she does not have the ears to hear spiritual wisdom and so it isn’t a part of her world.

 

If I upset her by not being attentive to her concerns about health and wellbeing for example then it is hard to see how I am responsible. I am no longer that kind of person, just as she isn’t the kind of person who might recognise the value of, say, meditation.

 

Another big theme in all your replies that does inspire is the notion of just being myself and allowing the fruits of my practice convince her. I can only hope that my improvements start to inspire me more than what she is repelled by my shortcomings – no longer sharing her concern for physical health.

 

I find it hard to imagine that I’m ever going to start preaching to her about all the amazing things I’ve discovered, but if she ever asks then of course I will give the best answer I can.

 

It is suddenly so clear to me just how the spiritual life imperils existing relationships. You really do become a different person and live in a different kind of reality. Thankfully, neither of us have met other people – but if I were to meet another woman who was on my wavelength then it is hard to imagine a graver test of our relationship. I’m steering clear of local meditation groups, all full of women so I hear – and all Goddesses no doubt, Cat!

Edited March 7, 2013 by Nikolai1

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I could be wrong, and I hope this doesn't come off sounding too sexist (inevitably will a bit), but I think men are generally more interested in talking about the intricacies of these things than women. Men tend to be more mental about it I think, on average. So it might not be too uncommon for someone's wife not to be interested in getting into the philosophical sides of it, and it might just really alienate her to push its importance since she might not feel these things in a mental way - it might not do anything for her, whereas something like Chi Gong might make her say "yes, I feel peaceful, healthy, happy, like the toxins have been cleared and emotions are balanced." Then if you try to explain this with various conceptual thinking it might just be like a dog barking at her.. trying to say something but not really making any sense (from her perspective).

 

I'm surprised, a bit, to read on a Taoist forum that you don't see the connection between health and spirituality. You might want to look into that side of the spiritual path and have at least an enjoyable bridge where the two of you can live out your goals. There are many practices for both physical and spiritual health that you both might enjoy, so long as you are willing to leave the "highfalutin" concepts out of the conversation.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Nikolai1]

I'm surprised, a bit, to read on a Taoist forum that you don't see the connection between health and spirituality.

 

The irony is that I had a healthy vegetarian diet and a love of exercise well before I met my wife. The difference is that if I decide to eat some chips with a movie i don't have even the remotest anxiety about doing so because it doesn't affect my well-being one iota. But my wife is anxious about her diet and. if you ask her, it will become obvious that she is trying to avoid disease, obesity and early death. She does get a sense of well-being from her healthy diet, and you might call that a spiritual well-being, but because it is such a narrow technique she will get very off-balance if it is disrupted by so much as a pack of tortillas.

 

A healthy diet is all very well, but if adhering to it creates stress and anxiety then your healthy diet is actually an unhealthy diet. But this is a difficult concept for a person who has a 'you are what you eat' philosophy.

[mYTHmAKER]

Yes, thank you all for some amazing replies. One theme that came up quite a bit is the idea that I’ve been pushing my spirituality at her. Actually, the opposite is more the truth. I find it very hard to talk about my spiritual life, and I don’t expect my wife to understand anyway. It is therefore more like ‘an elephant in the room’ in that she can see how important my practice is to me but I can’t really talk about it and she doesn’t really ask.

 

For me the big problem is the way worldviews widen between a person on the spiritual path and one who isn’t. And I’m NOT talking about our conscious philosophies and beliefs. I cannot be concerned about my diet in the way she is. I simply do not recognise health and longevity issues when they arise because they are not a part of my reality. I no longer ‘have the ears to hear’ her concerns about health and longevity. And in turn she does not have the ears to hear spiritual wisdom and so it isn’t a part of her world.

 

If I upset her by not being attentive to her concerns about health and wellbeing for example then it is hard to see how I am responsible. I am no longer that kind of person, just as she isn’t the kind of person who might recognise the value of, say, meditation.

 

Another big theme in all your replies that does inspire is the notion of just being myself and allowing the fruits of my practice convince her. I can only hope that my improvements start to inspire me more than what she is repelled by my shortcomings – no longer sharing her concern for physical health.

 

I find it hard to imagine that I’m ever going to start preaching to her about all the amazing things I’ve discovered, but if she ever asks then of course I will give the best answer I can.

 

It is suddenly so clear to me just how the spiritual life imperils existing relationships. You really do become a different person and live in a different kind of reality. Thankfully, neither of us have met other people – but if I were to meet another woman who was on my wavelength then it is hard to imagine a graver test of our relationship. I’m steering clear of local meditation groups, all full of women so I hear – and all Goddesses no doubt, Cat!

and the wheel goes round and round - you really aren't very spiritual if you can't adapt to your wife's needs .

if one desires change one must change. What i'm getting is my way is the right - only way. I'm not interested in what goes into my body so it doesn't count ergo ego. New woman = new issues problems to deal with.

[三江源]

The irony is that I had a healthy vegetarian diet and a love of exercise well before I met my wife. My husband used to eat sensibly. The difference is that if I decide to eat some chips with a movie i don't have even the remotest anxiety about doing so because it doesn't affect my well-being one iota. Now my husband is unconcerned about it. But my wife is anxious about her diet and. if you ask her, it will become obvious that she is trying to avoid disease, obesity and early death. I still eat sensibly. She does get a sense of well-being from her healthy diet, and you might call that a spiritual well-being, eating sensibly makes me feel extremley good. but because it is such a narrow technique she will get very off-balance if it is disrupted by so much as a pack of tortillas. I need respect for the choices I make, my husband thinks I am upset about tortilla toppings. Actually I am far more upset that he is not sharing my outlook and /or respecting my preferences. It is as if movie snacks are so important to him that my feelings and beliefs cant be accomodated. Why must he have tortillas if he is so spiritual? Why doesnt he let them go?

 

A healthy diet is all very well, but if adhering to it creates stress and anxiety then your healthy diet is actually an unhealthy diet. a healthy diet is excellent, and when you have someone sharing your life who is carelessly undermining of it, upset ensues. But this is a difficult concept for a person who has a 'you are what you eat' philosophy. But this is a difficult concept for someone who has drifted out of relationship and has forgotten mutual accomodations. I can only hope that he stays in good health and doesnt drag me off my wholesome position in relation to what I choose to put into my body. I'm not sure he cares much about his body any more.. as his wife, I find this difficult.. Does he care about my body anymore?

......alternative voice possibility...

 

 

also.. it sounds a little as though you and your wife are two halves of one whole. Try melding together!

[Nikolai1]

I have the embarrassing feeling that my wife is in fact a spiritual genius and her name is cat.

 

cat you have her voice down to a t

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I think Cat also brings up a very good point - if you want to travel with your wife on the road of spiritual discovery, encourage her own path, not just your path. If she has spiritual leaning activity or practice or whatever, encourage and do it with her. If she wants to eat healthy, dive in! Practice mindful eating and bio-awareness in food choice. Practice your spirituality with her in covert ways, while supporting her in her own.

 

There are more ways to live your spirituality than simply being apathetic towards this material existence. Our body is the vehicle with which we can practice and learn these things.

[Shagrath]

Hi Nikolai1,

 

I totally agree with wise word of cat. She summed it up really nicely. I would like just to add few more thoughts.

 

It is very common to be rebellious in the first phase of spiritual quest. During spiritual development everybody encounters some friction with people that are not into it until you realize that there is no spirituality, there is only your concept of it. Partners represent our opposite (yin to our yang and vice versa) to challenge our ideas for us to question our existence and lead to spiritual development by overcoming tension with our beloved and finding some middle path in our relationship and in the world.

 

Breaking up because lack of understanding would be easy way out and it represents our weakness and our failure to find the Divine in another person. If you really find your way to communicate and you are deeply connected with each other, have true compassion and then if you realize that she is not the One then its fine. It not a breakup it is just life path separation while still being in love, and it really courageous and brave thing to do.

 

In spiritual development next to maturation of consciousness there are also many traits that are developing. Some of them would be self-confidence, spontaneity, charity, communication, influence, orientation to others, helping others, selflessness (giving), flexibility, empathy, development of EQ and SQ, etc. Try to find those traits inside you and act from that place.

 

Another thing, not being tied to your physical body doesn't mean you should neglect it. Physical body is precious vehicle, one day you will be happy it healthy

 

Don't try to force anything to your wife. Be kind, warm, full of empathy,... Put yourself into her position. Maybe she is afraid that as you abandon all the things you said you will abandon her also and it is just a matter of time until you realize that she is also excess in your "spiritual life" but she loves you deeply. Communicate with patience. If you thing rightly you will influence her in the deepest way possible, with your example without forcing anything.

 

Wish you the best.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Shagrath

[Rara]

I totally hear where you're coming from on this angle...you have many choices. I for one have had, and still have such disagreements with my partner. She's going veggie for God's sake. But still, I'm just like whatever.

 

You could accept the way she is...depending on whether it is in your spiritual quest to be the same family man. The decision is with you whether you really believe if this life is still for you, or whether you are ready to commit to riding off into the sunset instead and settling up on top of a mountain with a shaved head and kick-ass long silver goatee.

 

You could also completely ignore everything and just do your thing in your spare time around all this. aka, do nothing. Clearly her angle doesn't mean much to you, so why should yours matter to her?

 

You could try and lead by example. Maybe she cries...maybe you're carefree. If she doesn't want to be upset any more, she could always look to the one who is never upset for inspiration

 

My friend overseas in a Taoist/Buddhist and is married to a Christian...both very sure of their beliefs. But what comes first? Their love for each other. Sorta falls into both religions, right? But it's your choice..and your angle....do whatever you wanna do, because whatever the answer, it will always be right.

[三江源]

I totally agree with wise word of cat. SHe summed it up really nicely.

Shagrath, thankyou.

[Shagrath]

Shagrath, thankyou.

 

sry. I edited it

[JohnC]

Your spiritual path should enhance and support your relationships, and will highlight unhealthy ones. I know as I've meditated, and practiced energy work, my relationships become more passionate, loving, and accepting while moving away from people that are toxic or create drama.

If anything I enjoy living in society and having relationships more when practicing spirituality. And it doesn't matter to me whether others practice or whatever, if I'm enjoying and digging my practice.

The less solid in myself though I am, the more I'm going to want others to practice. It's kind of like the less I believe my ideas, the more I need others to believe them to validate me. (aka make me feel good about them) The idea of 'spiritual means were better, spiritual means we are higher, spiritual seperates, bla bla bla' is just egoic bullshit.

The spiritual path isn't the issue, it's your relationship with your wife and how you two are handling these things together. Your pursuit of whatever is just the material of the fight. It could be how you eat your cereal in the morning... it's more about the relationship you two have, and less about the topic. That you and her may have with-holds, pent up emotion and the like towards each other, and skewed perceptions about what the other means/intentions/etc. Which all fuels the fighting.

What it sounds like is that she see's your spiritual practices as a threat that.... what? And then from that disrespects your practices and what you dig? I imagine being you from there, would feel very shitty in the relationship.... and I imagine to create space for you to want to be in the relationship might mean you setting the boundary of that 'this is important to me... could you respect it?' and sharing vulnerably about how it all feels to you.

I would recommend getting some counseling, and I have a recommendation that can help you two over the phone if you'd like.

 

So much of this just comes down to what you want. All the rest, objections, pain, etc is just mind stuffs.

Likewise though I would recommend:
Radical Honesty - Brad blanton - Fucking awesome book on honesty, relationships, spirituality and inspired by Alan Watts.
No more Mr. Nice Guy - Robert Glover - A great book to help end secret contracts and to start getting your needs met and taking care of yourself.
Non-Violent communication - Marshall Rosenburg - a great book on speaking emotions ans sharing vulnerably, so that you get to the bottom of what is going on.
Getting Our Bodies Back - Christine Caldwell - A book written by a student of Thich Nhat Hann that helps you to take responsibility for your reactions and move towards unconditional love.

John

Edited March 8, 2013 by JohnC

[hydrogen]

It's not her. It's you.

 

Your true feeling about her is reflexed back on you. What happening around you is a mirror image of your true thought, feeling, emotion, speech and action.

 

Allow me recap the development from begining when you started the spiritual path.

 

You: wow, I've found something so cool and exciting. I'm so happy.

Her: good, my hubby is so happy, I'm so glad.

:

a few month later

You: I wish I could talk to someone about my cool discovery.

Her: I wish my hubby can talk to me more.

:

a few month later

You: I wish my wife be more spiritual like me.

Her: I wish my old hubby back.

:

:

Now

You: Should I find a new wife?

Her: My hubby doesn't love me anymore.

 

I'm sure if you speak in your heart to her that you love her, you'll stay with her regardless what's happening and you're totally happy. And mena it. She'll be content with your spiritual practice.