Microcosmic Orbit

[Yoda]

I think it's hazardous to over emphasize the crown chakra. Doing that can open it prematurely and cause imbalances. I'm reading a Gopi Krishna book where he's going through just that.

[Starjumper]

I think it's hazardous to over emphasize the crown chakra. Doing that can open it prematurely and cause imbalances. I'm reading a Gopi Krishna book where he's going through just that.

 

Doing it 'prematuely' has it's benefits along the lines of it being a fast path, but that's for people who like to slog through imbalances with the benefit of increased 'awareness'.

 

BTW, what I meant by there being hundreds of ways to do the MCO with physical body postures + flowing movement wasn't refering to common everyday stuff like lifting your arm to open a door. What I was refering to was dedicated hard core yoga high power movement energy type exercises, some barely moving and some with fairly fast motions. There must be a thousand ways to do the MCO with these movements, and many of them are beautiful and exotic and feel good. Playing with the MCO with your mind is fraught with problems - particularly forthose who do it as their main practice.

Edited December 25, 2006 by Starjumper7

[Trunk]

Using visualization/intent methods to do the MCO is a BAD idea and has caused considerable and permanent harm in some people. By far the best way to do it is with moving chi kung exercises, ...

Interesting perspective; I've never heard anyone say that straight out before. TTBs is such a good place, where varying opinions stand.

[xenolith]

So much to say. For now, I'll limit my comments to the following:

 

Just so we're all clear, I don't claim to be enlightened. Indeed I'm quite sure that I'm not. Furthermore, I know that I don't know what enlightenment is. But I know that the ability to pursue spritual evolution is greatly facilitated within the experience of CCO. And I know how to open that door. Sharing information about that door and what exists beyond it may be part of my path towards furthering that evolution. And may facilitate it for others as well. Which I see as an act of Love. Something which is very important in that pursuit....indeed, most important among the things that have been made clear to me in my CCO experiences is that Love is the key to spiritual evolution (or if one prefers, 'enlightenment'). I understand that one need not experience a CCO to know this, nor to therefore understand the key to spritual evolution, but I KNOW that the information contained within the CCO experience is incredibly helpful toward that understanding.

 

I considered carefully before using the word 'enlightenment' because I know it's a very charged word, and to do so is to, among other things, invite attack from others. I'm sorry that I did. I should have been more clear in my meaning, as hopefully I've now been. What I meant to convey by the sentence in which I used it was the reality, as I've experienced it, that to access this door to heightened ability for spiritual evolution that is a CCO, takes a long time. I've spent much of my words on this Forum seeking information to the contrary. None has been provided. Based on what I understand so far, IMO, the most significant dis-service to his readers of Chia's was indicating that distillation of jing to chi and the movement of that chi to the Ming-Men point (the door of Life beyond the sacral pump) can be achieved in the course of "several weeks". I'd like very few things more than to talk with someone for whom this was true. Not even close so far.

 

CCOs are not subjective experiences, they're universal experiences...literally, 'experiences of the universal'. I don't think that there are words adequate to describe what CCOs are in more explicit terms. But if pressed, I'd describe them as the experience of being given the eyes to see one's own energy dynamo and it's place within the infinite energy field within which it exists. I'll spare you all descriptions of the experiences of ancillary significance such as loss of body and associated things in order to inform you of the most important aspect, and here is where the real value (IMO) of CCOs lies, a capacity to understand the nature and significance of Love as THE energy source that energizes one's dynamo and facilitates any spiritual evolutionary actions within the universal energy field that we may attempt. Simply put, more Love more facilitates spiritual evolution. We're Love machines my friends.

 

It is true that there are many paths to the Tao. Life is short, decisions are few. Lose ego, find self. Love is the key. But above all, understand and be at peace with all that your cultivation practice means for your self.

 

I'll save further comments for some other time and will simply wish all bums a very merry christmas.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited December 26, 2006 by xenolith

[Spectrum]

suspending my belief is my absolute favorite activity

 

invite attack from others.

 

If my dialog has been percieved as attacking then I have not succeeded in presenting my thoughts genuinely enough. This forom is a nice way to have a healthy dialog beyond the sound bite associations currently prevelant in western culture. I'm not intent on attacking or personally insulting anyone, simply intent on studying the truth of matters at hand.

 

the most significant dis-service to his readers of Chia's was indicating that distillation of jing to chi and the movement of that chi to the Ming-Men point (the door of Life beyond the sacral pump) can be achieved in the course of "several weeks". I'd like very few things more than to talk with someone for whom this was true. Not even close so far.

 

Chia is one voice in the choir. I havn't ever met him in person. I won't say he doesn't have any information that isn't worthwhile, but I don't base my personal practice on guidance from his books.

 

I think it's a hard thing to judge. My knee jerk response is to agree with you. However, how does one judge success outside of comparing ones own personal experiences to others? Qualifying a "CCO" experience as you've described seems very general. Piping higher levels (frequencies/etc) of consciousness into the realm of language is a bit of a challenge as we're currently experiencing in this thread.

 

In my opinion an MCO could be completed in a single sitting if the mindset of the individual and the environmental setting is just right. My reasons for saying this is simply because sometimes success isn't based on what you know, but on what you don't, so sometimes people try something once and succeed, yet spend the next 10 years trying to "get back" to where they were at the start.

 

Another consideration, based on my own subjective experiences, is that of time dialation at certain points during training; in which a process that has taken X amount of time shrinks to a fraction, only to become a seamless experience which no longer needs a 'process' (requiring time) to happen again. I simply call this learning. Some may attribute mystical significance to the observation of their internal processes, I call it natural.

 

CCOs are not subjective experiences, they're universal experiences...literally, 'experiences of the universal'. I don't think that there are words adequate to describe what CCOs are in more explicit terms.

 

Opening the Thousand Petalled Lotus Blossom? Poetry or music would draw nearer.

 

But if pressed, I'd describe them as the experience of being given the eyes to see one's own energy dynamo and it's place within the infinite energy field within which it exists.

"ones own energy dynamo" is a clear yet possibly subjective observation? But assuming our personal dynamos all originate from approx the same place, this could be objective as well. Ultimately this isn't in my view a negative, as subjective and objective experience can merge in the unity of meditative consciousness. The rigors of defining that which is undefinable gives warrent to teachers far wiser then I to sharing through allegory, metaphor, and practice, instead of through words alone.

 

I'll spare you all descriptions of the experiences of ancillary significance such as loss of body and associated things in order to inform you of the most important aspect, and here is where the real value (IMO) of CCOs lies, a capacity to understand the nature and significance of Love as THE energy source that energizes one's dynamo and facilitates any spiritual evolutionary actions within the universal energy field that we may attempt. Simply put, more Love more facilitates spiritual evolution.

 

I've always wondered if people who were close enough to have actually "survived" the Mt. St. Helens eruption wear those t-shirts with all the burn marks on them that say "I survived the Mount Saint Helens Eruption"...

 

I'm reminded at this point of the Nine Songs in which the ancient Chinese shaman is charactarized as having a love affair with the Spirit, much like the Bride and Bridegroom is an allegory in the new testament for the church and Christ. Perhaps here we sit on the boundary between metephysical practice and religion when we speak of Love. I will qoute two of the Nine Songs below.

 

It is true that there are many paths to the Tao. Life is short, decisions are few. Lose ego, find self. Love is the key. But above all, understand and be at peace with all that your cultivation practice means for your self.

 

"And consequently, by the 'art' of archery he does not mean the ability of the sportsman, which can be controlled, more or less, by bodily exercises, but an ability whose origin is to be sought in spiritual exercises and whose aim consists in hitting a spiritual goal, so that fundamentally the marksman aims at himself and may even succeed in hitting himself." - Zen & The Art of Archery 1953

 

 

"The Nine Songs" - Love Manifest in Ancient Chinese Shamanism

 

Summary: In Ancient China the shaman was prophet, healer, dancer and singer, sometimes regarded an outcast, though treated always with high consideration. In these beautiful songs, known in China since at least the second century A.D., the always fleeting relationship of shaman and Spirit is seen as that of lovers.

 

Excerpts:

 

Song II

The Lord Amid the Clouds

 

I have washed in brew of orchid, bathed in sweet scents

Many-coloured are my garments; I am like a flower.

Now in long curves the Spirit has come down

in a blaze of brightness unending.

Chien! He is comin to rest at the Abode of Life;

As a sun, as a moonbeam glows his light.

In dragon chariot and the vestment of a god

Hither and thither a little while he moves.

 

The Spirit in great majesty came down;

Now he soars up swiftly amid the clouds.

He looks down on the province of Chi and far beyond;

He traverses to the Four Seas; endless his flight.

Longing for that Lord I heave a deep sigh;

My heart is greatly troubled; I am very sad.

 

 

Song V

 

The Big Lord of Lives

 

The gates of Heaven are open wide;

Off I ride, borne on a dark cloud!

May the gustywinds be my canguard,

May sharp showers sprinkle the dust!

The Lord wheels in his flight, he is coming down;

I will cross Kung-Sang and attend upon you.

But all over the Nine Provinces there are people in throngs;

Why think that his task is among us?

High he flies, peacefully winging;

On pure air borne aloft he hands Yin and Yang.

I and the Lord, solemn and reverent,

On our way to God cross over the Nine Hills.

He trails his spirit-garment,

Dangles his girdle-gems.

One Yin for every Yang;

The crowd does not understand what we are doing.

I pluck the sparse-hemps lovely flower,

Meaning to send it to him from who I am separated.

Age creeps on apace, all will soon be over;

Not to draw nearer is to drift further apart.

He has driven his dragon chariot, loudly rumbling;

High up he gallops into Heaven.

Edited December 30, 2006 by Spectrum

[QiDr]

I have been doing the MCO for years and in the system I practice it is fundamental.

The MCO was not invented by Chia but certainly was popularized by him in the West.

The practices main function is to unite the Du and Ren meridians and to increase the Ming Men fire, when the Ming Men fire travels up the Du meridian it effects the Yang meetings and creates the so called CCO.

When I asked my teacher how long to practice the MCO he said, "I tell you when discontinue practice", He never did.

[thelerner]

Hey X, I feel the love

 

I hear where you're coming from. Its like a guy saying I'm a boxer, look I have this booklet. There is a responsibility of more practiced people to give others a reality check.

 

Still even with the booklet, if its written by a professional trainer and followed scrupulously, you won't get a boxer, but you can have someone who's in excellent shape and better then the average bear.

 

I have taken seminars with Chia and Winn, read books, spent regular time on the mat and have my CD's. Its a poor substitute for a regular teacher, but they are from teachers I respect.

 

I'll drop the word enlightenment and say Complete Human Being, is important to me, but as a soccer dad its not my top or even in my top 4 priorities. I think the little bits done daily, and the striving to bring the teachings into every day life moves you along the path.

 

These days I don't want to get too top heavy. Guided meditations done by an accomplished teacher can be very powerful, as much for the 'transmission' by the teacher as for the practice they teach(admittedly its only a tiny bit of what a live transmission is, but there is something there.) I've broken into heavy sweats listening to them, felt my body rock and bob as the energy has moved across it.

 

Must get ice cream for children. Let them have there fun before the ice cap melts and we have to live on a boat. Weeks of 50 degrees here in Chicago in December.

 

Michael

[spyrelx]

Lovely post Michael.

[witch]

I think it's hazardous to over emphasize the crown chakra. Doing that can open it prematurely and cause imbalances. I'm reading a Gopi Krishna book where he's going through just that.

 

What sort of things does he describe?

[iadnon]

When I first read this technique called MCO I thought: hey, so many pompous names, so many explanations,... I tried some times but I felt but nothing.

 

Time later I found a more occidental method: NEW. It worked the same things but in a more practical and with normal names. When I learnt how to practice it I went back to MCO and I realized the differences were but a few.

 

Maybe I'm to practical and that's why the second method made me evolve more rapidly.

 

Anyway I don't think it's bad to practice MCO. I've been some years with it and I'm circulating sex energy now in the same path. I don't feel imbalanced.

 

But it's true that upper and lower chakras must be worked equally. In the same session should be worked out the seven ones so the system gets equilibrated. In 20 minutes of chakra work you can try them all.

 

A last thing. It's true that much psychic waste is released as chakras are cleaned up and strengthened. But these sort of things must be suffered as you do when going on a new diet.

 

Remember: to Know, to Dare, to Will, and to Keep Silence.

Edited January 2, 2007 by andonitxo

[Starjumper]

I think it's hazardous to over emphasize the crown chakra. Doing that can open it prematurely and cause imbalances. I'm reading a Gopi Krishna book where he's going through just that.

 

Doing it 'prematurely' has it's benefits along the lines of it being a fast path, but that's for people who like to slog through imbalances with the benefit of increased 'awareness'.

 

I should clarify my answer to Yoda. We are both correct in different ways, and we are probably referring to different ways. The Way I am referring to is along the lines of the Water Method Taoist Nei kung alchemy where there is a lot of focus on the crown point and energizing it within the first three years or so. The important part is that this method is well grounded in a holistic practice which has as a very important point being in primo physical/martial condition, and is therefore a relatively safe path and a fast path.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

This was in response to a question I had. I had heard that Mantak Chia is the most advanced Taoist master in the world.

 

There are cultivators much more advanced than he is. In the Daoist realm very high level masters do not want society to know they exist because it is more harmful to the people and to themselves. They mix into society.

If one is looking for a genuine cultivator, seek Zhang Yi Xiang (Lily Siu), 64th Heavenly Master of Long Hu Shan located in Hawaii at the Tai Xuan foundation.

 

Sometimes a highly skilled master is rght under our noses, and we can't tell because the cup is too full.

 

Peace and Happiness to you all...

 

Aiwei

 

I agree Aiwei, I think many practitioners are more advanced than Chia. Also, it is true that there are high level masters around who wish to remain unknown. In fact I was introduced to one of them and luckily my cup was not too full then. I would be interested in visiting the master in Hawaii but I don't go there often. I assume he is on the island of Oahu and must be pretty busy? I did a google check on your info and got no returns on it.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

I wrote: Using visualization/intent methods to do the MCO is a BAD idea and has caused considerable and permanent harm in some people. By far the best way to do it is with moving chi kung exercises, ...

 

Interesting perspective; I've never heard anyone say that straight out before. TTBs is such a good place, where varying opinions stand.

 

Well that's very nice that everyone has their opinions and TTBs is a good place, but I'm right about this particular subject and it's not an opinion. I've seen the damage done to people who used the visualization method and I've been ordered by a most powerful chi kung master to never practice such a thing. Visualization of the MCO is a hard style method and we Water style (real =) Taoists prefer safety and health.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

I was asked by PM a few weeks ago to elaborate on what I know about the MCO. There are several reasons why doing it is not a good idea.

 

There are some few people who may do it without harm and if you're reading this you probably aren't one of them. I'm not one of them either.

 

Here's one thing that is wrong with doin' the MCO. The MCO is basically one energy channel in the body. If you force and you are like many of the practitioners who also have essentially no other practice, then you are neglecting all the other meridians. In addition energy does not just flow through the meridians, it flows through every fiber, cell, and molecule in your body.

 

Now many Taoists will respond positively to the notion that our bodies have body wisdom and if we give it a supply of extra chi while in a relaxed state then the extra chi will automatically and naturally go to wherever in the body it is needed most in order to improve health the most.

 

SO THEN what's so smart about directing it to go some place else with our minds. Are we really smarter than our body or are we just playing games?

 

There's a lot more........

Edited January 5, 2007 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

By the way, there's nothing essentially wrong with playing games, it's just a good idea to know when you're doing it, don't you think?

[Spectrum]

Now many Taoists will respond positively to the notion that our bodies have body wisdom and if we give it a supply of extra chi while in a relaxed state then the extra chi will automatically and naturally go to wherever in the body it is needed most in order to improve health the most.

 

SO THEN what's so smart about directing it to go some place else with our minds. Are we really smarter than our body or are we just playing games?

 

 

Perhaps we should all re-read these wise words above, particularlly... "that our bodies have body wisdom and if we give it a supply of extra chi while in a relaxed state then the extra chi will automatically and naturally go to wherever in the body it is needed" ...

 

Thanks StarJumper!

 

Spectrum

[Mal]

Another thought,

 

Perhaps the purpose of the Microcosmic Orbit is like a safety valve to preven and nasty side effects people often experience with the raising of sexual energies?

 

It seems that not many people practice it daily. But people do seem to be practicing something that could be doing the same job. Personally I have a set of chi kungs that I do.

[林愛偉]

This was in response to a question I had. I had heard that Mantak Chia is the most advanced Taoist master in the world.

I agree Aiwei, I think many practitioners are more advanced than Chia. Also, it is true that there are high level masters around who wish to remain unknown. In fact I was introduced to one of them and luckily my cup was not too full then. I would be interested in visiting the master in Hawaii but I don't go there often. I assume he is on the island of Oahu and must be pretty busy? I did a google check on your info and got no returns on it.

 

 

Sorry for the late reply. I have not been able to get online in CHina due to the Taiwan earthquake 2weeks ago.

 

The master in Hawaii is a woman, and she is in Honolulu. google search : Lily Siu, or Chang Yi Xiang, also try Tai Hsuan Foundation.

 

Peace,

[thelerner]

Lilly Siou, she was one of the three people presented in the book "Masters of the Way" wasn't she. If so, she represented the naturalness of the tao very well.

 

Michael

[Spectrum]

Next time I am in Honolulu I plan on visiting the school of immortals (actually a school of accupuncture and herbal medicine / taoist arts) of which Lily Siu, aka Dr. Chang Yi Xiang is head of. I am not sure she sees visitors anymore, but would be worth a visit if she leads a taiji group or similar. Definately an elder in the community.

 

I have a book on chi gung printed by her school in 1981. It covered general theory, 8 brocade seated, 8 brocade standing, and some other things I can't remember right now.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Spectrum

[Starjumper]

Sorry for the late reply. I have not been able to get online in CHina due to the Taiwan earthquake 2weeks ago.

 

The master in Hawaii is a woman, and she is in Honolulu. google search : Lily Siu, or Chang Yi Xiang, also try Tai Hsuan Foundation.

 

Thanks for replying, I'll check it out. I saw on your new forum that there are jobs in China for English teachers. It was an interesting thought trip.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

I Goggled this stuff ( Lily Siu, or Chang Yi Xiang, also try Tai Hsuan Foundation) and there were no returns. It appears as if they are real Taoists =) I appreciate the info. There's no need to do any detective work on my behalf because I probably won't find myself staying in Honolulu any time soon. I prefer the North shore of Kauai myself.

[Spectrum]

Sifu Siu is real no doubt. Here is the link to her school. She has been active on the island for a good amount of time.

 

 

http://acupuncture-hi.com/foundermessage.shtml