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dmattwads

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Just recently I have moved from doing primarily Qigong meditation to Buddhist meditation. I did this because I felt that qigong meditation was causing me to look for / cling to emotions and experiences (not saying this is everyone's experience, but it was mine). So I was hoping that Buddhist meditation would be more "gentle"? But what I have noticed from doing simple emptiness meditation and chanting "Om mani padme hum" is that all sorts of burried stuff is coming up, and it can seem a bit over whealming. Is this normal? What are the typical stages of stuff that happens when beginning this? What is normal, what is not?

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I can't give any sort of advice about what is normal and what isn't, I expect people will say whatever comes up is normal. In terms of stages of meditation there is a general map of the attainment stages, Daniel Ingram has put it on some free handouts on his website http://integrateddaniel.info/book/ , but if you are just beginning I doubt this is what you are looking for but his book is quite good and free so might be worth looking at.

 

But the book which has helped me the most in my meditation is 'The Joy of Living' by Mingyur Rinpoche. I don't know exactly is coming up for you but Mingyur Rinpoche describes how he had bad anxiety and panic attacks and used all that as the focus of his meditation so he brought his problems onto the path and used them to help him on it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5bpe6fXuPk, he also explains many basic Buddhist meditations in a very good straightforward way in the book and includes a lot of science.

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Just recently I have moved from doing primarily Qigong meditation to Buddhist meditation. I did this because I felt that qigong meditation was causing me to look for / cling to emotions and experiences (not saying this is everyone's experience, but it was mine). So I was hoping that Buddhist meditation would be more "gentle"? But what I have noticed from doing simple emptiness meditation and chanting "Om mani padme hum" is that all sorts of burried stuff is coming up, and it can seem a bit over whealming. Is this normal? What are the typical stages of stuff that happens when beginning this? What is normal, what is not?

Did you really feel it was the method, or was it more what you were focusing on? What did you do for 'qigong meditation' vs what's the particular buddhist approach you're using?

 

All paths lead up the mountain...

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Just recently I have moved from doing primarily Qigong meditation to Buddhist meditation. I did this because I felt that qigong meditation was causing me to look for / cling to emotions and experiences (not saying this is everyone's experience, but it was mine). So I was hoping that Buddhist meditation would be more "gentle"? But what I have noticed from doing simple emptiness meditation and chanting "Om mani padme hum" is that all sorts of burried stuff is coming up, and it can seem a bit over whealming. Is this normal? What are the typical stages of stuff that happens when beginning this? What is normal, what is not?

 

This is an overarching question, one that can't be answered so simply. Though, generally it is common for individuals to start noticing their tendencies, neurotic behavior, etc., when starting to access deeper and deeper levels of concentration. In conjunction, this can be triggered on a subtle energetic level as your body's esoteric channels start to 'clear out' and open; all sorts of [karmic] habit energies will start to 'bubble up.'

 

As for the 'stages,' of what to expect or what might happen...I would look into Daniel Ingram's "Mastering The Core Teachings Of The Buddha." Despite what the title says: The author has mapped out the stages of what people will generally go through based on his own experiences. Though it's focus is more on the psychological aspect than a focus on the energy channels (though it goes into it briefly.)

 

EDIT: When you say "Qigong meditation,"do you mean (seated) neigong? Or just the standing movement form er, qigong?

Edited by Simple_Jack

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Yes the type of Qigong meditation I did was seated. It focused more on working directly with the organs, channles and chakras. The reason I decided to switch was because I found myself over analyzing emotions. I decided to switch to a more Buddhist approach partially as a way to let go of the control issues. To be more specific a lot of what is coming up now is as you say my "neurosis" I suppose. Those unpleasant and obsesive thoughts and feelings that are not fun at all. The Buddhist methods I'm now using are simply chanting "Om mani padme hum" and "emptiniess" meditation i.e. simply observing the breath.

 

ps: I guess I should mention that I still occasionally use a qigong/taoist meditation to help me deal with some of the stuff that comes up, but do not make it a regular practice any longer.

Edited by dmattwads

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Yes the type of Qigong meditation I did was seated. It focused more on working directly with the organs, channles and chakras. The reason I decided to switch was because I found myself over analyzing emotions. I decided to switch to a more Buddhist approach partially as a way to let go of the control issues. To be more specific a lot of what is coming up now is as you say my "neurosis" I suppose. Those unpleasant and obsesive thoughts and feelings that are not fun at all. The Buddhist methods I'm now using are simply chanting "Om mani padme hum" and "emptiniess" meditation i.e. simply observing the breath.

Ah, ok. Well, sorry to break to you, but when doing shamatha (or calm abiding) practice: No matter whether you're doing anapana (concentration on the breath,) visualizing a tantric deity, or staring at poop as a meditation object: Shit's gonna start becoming more noticeable.

 

FYI, shamatha practice/cultivating jhana, is only one aspect of Buddhist meditation. In conjunction, there is vipassana/vipasyana (clear seeing or insight meditation) which makes up the other half of Buddhist meditation.

 

What is it you are trying to get out of this? What is it you eventually hope to acheive with this?

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I can't give any sort of advice about what is normal and what isn't, I expect people will say whatever comes up is normal. In terms of stages of meditation there is a general map of the attainment stages, Daniel Ingram has put it on some free handouts on his website http://integrateddaniel.info/book/ , but if you are just beginning I doubt this is what you are looking for but his book is quite good and free so might be worth looking at.

Have you ever looked into any books by Jack Kornfield? I think I saw them advertised on Snow Lion or Shambala website once.

 

Not saying they would be helpful or anything, just wondering if you ever came across them.

 

Saw these on the site you linked, where he lists some of his favorite books:

 

A Path with Heart, by Jack Kornfield: an masterwork. A must have. Vast, accessible, rich and deep. Buy this and read it twice, at least. A great place for both beginners and advanced meditators to start and finish. Only major problem is that is it so nicely written and gentle you might not realize how hard hitting it is. Assume it is very hard hitting and technical despite its friendly tone and you will get more out of it.

After the Ecstasy, the Laundry, by Jack Kornfield: a wonderful, reality-based, down-to-earth discussion of spiritual awakening.

 

I never paid attention to his books before. From the titles: I've always thought they were strictly for beginners.

Edited by Simple_Jack

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I agree with Simple Jack.

Mr CT, I find some irony in posting celebrity meditators. Actually, it's really really annoying (to me) but who cares:-)

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Have you ever looked into any books by Jack Kornfield? I think I saw them advertised on Snow Lion or Shambala website once.

 

Not saying they would be helpful or anything, just wondering if you ever came across them.

 

I read one of his books many years ago, I wasn't really prepared to listen to what he was saying then though as I was obsessed with fixing and changing myself, he is a psychologist too which might be good if a lot of stuff is coming up so his books might help.

 

But basically what Mingur Rinpoche says about dealing with his own neurosis can be applied to whatever is coming up, if you try to get rid of it it becomes your enemy, but if you let it completely take over it is your boss, but if you avoid both positions and make friends with it then it is a great aid for your meditation. Once he did this the anxiety problems which had plagued him for years left him in three days and he said he missed them once they had gone.

 

So I would be careful with people who tell you what is normal or not because something might be coming up for you in your meditation and if you are told it isn't normal that is likely to make you want to get rid of it, which just puts you at war in yourself which only strengthens the issue.

Edited by Jetsun

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Mr CT, I find some irony in posting celebrity meditators. Actually, it's really really annoying (to me) but who cares:-)

 

More like celebrity narrator, Miss K. Dont let that detract you from the essence of the clip.

 

If my perception of something displaces my mind-space, i would find out why, and try to allow for more openness so that the next time this something comes up, i'd be more able to feel less displaced, and keep practicing this observation until its energy dissipates, and i can remain centered and unmoved.

 

Actually, nothing really wrong with celebrities who meditate. Everyone wants to return to an optimal space free of all the things most want to be free from.

Edited by C T

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Ah, ok. Well, sorry to break to you, but when doing shamatha (or calm abiding) practice: No matter whether you're doing anapana (concentration on the breath,) visualizing a tantric deity, or staring at poop as a meditation object: Shit's gonna start becoming more noticeable.

 

FYI, shamatha practice/cultivating jhana, is only one aspect of Buddhist meditation. In conjunction, there is vipassana/vipasyana (clear seeing or insight meditation) which makes up the other half of Buddhist meditation.

 

What is it you are trying to get out of this? What is it you eventually hope to acheive with this?

 

Yea I'm aware of mindfullness but am not sure if I'm ready for that yet. What I'm trying to get out of this in the long term would be enlightenment, but for now just trying to deal with my inner stuff.

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More like celebrity narrator, Miss K. Dont let that detract you from the essence of the clip.

 

If my perception of something displaces my mind-space, i would find out why, and try to allow for more openness so that the next time this something comes up, i'd be more able to feel less displaced, and keep practicing this observation until its energy dissipates, and i can remain centered and unmoved.

 

Actually, nothing really wrong with celebrities who meditate. Everyone wants to return to an optimal space free of all the things most want to be free from.

 

I just dislike Richard Gere.

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Yea I'm aware of mindfullness but am not sure if I'm ready for that yet. What I'm trying to get out of this in the long term would be enlightenment, but for now just trying to deal with my inner stuff.

How come? Is it because you're not sure of how to apply it? Is it because you question it's validity or the context of it's use in Buddhism?

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How come? Is it because you're not sure of how to apply it? Is it because you question it's validity or the context of it's use in Buddhism?

 

I was told/learned that you should to emptiness first, otherwise you may not be ready to do mindfulness properly.

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I was told/learned that you should to emptiness first, otherwise you may not be ready to do mindfulness properly.

Interesting. What is it from the tradition, students, or material of Pa-Auk Sayadaw? They follow the Visuddhimagga style of appraoach, instead of the sutta style.

 

Or was it from someone in Mahayana? It wasn't one of Bill Bodri's books was it? Considering that you use the term "emptiness" meditation, when the way of using that term doesn't exist in the Pali or Mahayana cannon: You must have got it from Bill Bodri's material.

 

It's referred to as samatha , zhine (Tib..) or just calm abiding. The absorption states would be called either jhana (Pali,) or dhyana (Skt.,) in Buddhism (though the word samadhi is used also.)

 

FYI, teaching samatha-vipassana separately is a modern approach. Traditionally (how it was taught in Buddha's time) it was taught to be used together. Though, I'm not dismissing any one approach here. There are different ways or styles of doing this.

Edited by Simple_Jack

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Interesting. What is it from the tradition, students, or material of Pa-Auk Sayadaw? They follow the Visuddhimagga style of appraoach, instead of the sutta style.

 

Or was it from someone in Mahayana? It wasn't one of Bill Bodri's books was it? Considering that you use the term "emptiness" meditation, when the way of using that term doesn't exist in the Pali or Mahayana cannon: You must have got it from Bill Bodri's material.

 

It's referred to as samatha , zhine (Tib..) or just calm abiding. The absorption states would be called either jhana (Pali,) or dhyana (Skt.,) in Buddhism (though the word samadhi is used also.)

 

FYI, teaching samatha-vipassana separately is a modern approach. Traditionally (how it was taught in Buddha's time) it was taught to be used together. Though, I'm not dismissing any one approach here. There are different ways or styles of doing this.

 

Hmmm thats interesting. As you can see I'm a bit new at this and not super familiar with all the terminology. So then you can do the two together eh?

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I was told/learned that you should to emptiness first, otherwise you may not be ready to do mindfulness properly.

FYI, "mindfulness" is termed sati. This is the fundamental technique or the way of approach to entering and abiding in jhana and when doing vipassana (which by the way can be done in both the meditative and post-meditative period.) What have you read so far on the subject of meditative absorption?

 

Hmmm thats interesting. As you can see I'm a bit new at this and not super familiar with all the terminology. So then you can do the two together eh?

Yes. I can post some links. I can also PM you some stuff if you want. There's a whole lot of free material on the web. Entire books that can be read for free.

 

Here's some links to get you started:

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1191517

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1286373

 

Read those two links first. Then you can do a bit more research here:

 

http://measurelessmind.ca/

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I just dislike Richard Gere.

 

Do you dislike him, the person, or the image of him?

 

Its harder to understand when its the image we have of someone that causes issues.

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