thelerner

Shrooms

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I was going to put this in the non daoist topic, maybe in the Stay Away section. I wrote a story with some hallucinogetics in it. Also there's been some discussion here on it. So I've been doing some googling on them.

 

I am very interested in them. But I've lead a very drug free life. In my 42 years I've only used illegal drug once. Matter of fact in college I wrote a paper on why marijuana should not be legalized. (I can see it being decriminalized, stupid to lock small users up).

 

So there is a level of hypocracy. A level of not being true to myself. An argument that if I want my kids to stay away from this stuff I shouldn't use it. Whether we choose to recognize it or not, there can be a blood onus attached to many illegal drugs out there, ie corruption, Scarface kinds of stuff.

 

Theres the matter of keeping a poison in a house with kids in it and the matter of the illegality of purchasing the stuff.

 

Just as powerful is the fact that I might like it. I might really like it. It could give me the bliss and feeling of satori that I've read about and yearn for. That in itself is a trap. First it articial, second I'd recommend it to others and be linked karmically to what happens to them based on my recommendation. I've been steadily stealing candy from my kids halloween bags. What happens when the goodies become more powerful?

 

But I am 42. A known danger is less of a danger. I am a responsible person, 89 1/2% of the time.

 

I've found two good sites. I'm interested in the Amana mushroom. They also have some interesting dream tea's and some other, many other classes of illicits, none for human conception, all available for anthropological interests :lol:

 

As in the Matrix, my decsion is already made. I have to figure out the why and how.

 

Michael

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I've done shrooms and lsd and whatnot in the past...

 

I dont think they're for everybody - if someone asked me for my oppinion on whether to take them or not, I'd say no...

 

nevertheless I credit my spiritual orientation to mushrooms - I've experienced some facinating things on shrooms and I know for sure that it's helped me in many ways...

 

I think hallucinogens should only be used ceremonially - there is a reason natives would fast, go into trances, pray, dance, drum etc before using their drugs... you need a strong intention for why you're taking it and the ceremony and preparation only makes this more 'real' ('set and setting' are the key words here!)

 

Regarding 'liking it too much' - generally the effect is not always euphoric and blissfull (but it may be). If done ceremonially, after doing them there is a sense of completion - of a journey travelled and completed - there is no craving to do more any time soon.

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10...

 

 

Sounds fun!

 

 

9...

 

 

What does Mrs Lerner think?

 

 

8...

 

 

Mrs Yoda isn't into my checking into it until I retire, but I'll try to figure something out.

 

7...

 

 

Coincidently, my father in law has my book about it. Great book, I'll get you a title, they recomend a free source of spore from Canada

 

 

6...

 

 

I've heard it said that one good shroom experience is worth 40 years of meditation.

 

 

5...

 

 

While that can't be true, there is a component of cosmic knowledge (per folks I've talked to) that can stick on your bones.

 

 

4...

 

 

Will blast through any size writer's block

 

 

3...

 

 

Personally, I'd never do acid. I've heard that shrooms are more user friendly.

 

 

2...

 

 

I hope Mrs. Lerner didn't marry you right out of college!!

 

 

1...

 

 

Have a nice flight!

 

 

0...

 

 

Blast off!

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So I'm older than you free. I have to admit to to having done a number of drugs a lot. And to be perfectly honest I did mushrooms, etc for recreational purposes. I wouldn't worry too much. Just be in a very pleasant setting and relax. Nothing matters...and what if it did?

  • Thanks 1

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Michael,

 

I concur with Buddy but with a few caveats.

 

First the concurrence. You're overthinking it. It's a drug -- like coffee, alcohol or asprin. It's a tool to get you somewhere. Yes, it's a very powerful tool but wherever you go you're coming back. And trying out a tool will not make you either buddah or scarface. So relax, have a nice setting (daytime is probably best) where you're not going to be hassled -- and enjoy. If you experience anything negative from the drug just remember -- its a drug, which means it's over in 6 or 8 hours.

 

Now the caveats.

 

I don't know about yoda's mail order ideas. Things are a lot tighter these days and my gut reaction is that's risky. It might be better to find someone you know (or someone that a friend or acquaintance knows). I'm not adamant about this but point it out to ponder.

 

Last and perhaps least. No one dies on mushroom (or acid or whatever). No one goes crazy on mushrooms either. But there are people who want to go crazy, who are unbalanced and going that direction anyway. Sometimes those people use hallucinogens to get there and stay there. The drug isn't dangerous. But we can be.

 

I say this because I don't know you. So I'd caution you to take a hard look at yourself and your own stability and ask yourself why you're going down this road. Adventure, enlightenment, curiosity, kicks -- all fine reasons. Issues with yourself, depression, self-destruction -- all very bad reasons.

 

Be well.

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Yoda got real excited just now! Thats awesome. Cosmic bones? hahhaa.

 

Done I remember someone on here mentioning a pressure cooker? hahaha

 

Lerner, you might want to check out Winn's old HD post on this, from the time of last X-mas. He talks about the saami Shaman and how mushies have yuan chi, but how Terence Mckenna got trapped by low level entities in them.

 

Yes, the experience is not always euphoric and can be quite the opposite! Thus, however, you become more determined to get at the root of human evolution - yoga and mind and body development, the root of all world religions, government and human institutions- they will make you think extreme thoughts...

 

My best, most ecstatic experiences were at concerts on mushrooms - jam bands.

 

I did them a lot for two years. THen, I totally stopped for the past two years and have been studying the tao and astrotheology behind them... will start again when its time, but I have a lot more research and work to do first. Allowing for human consciousness to be liberated... takes time.

 

Definitely, you need the right intention and environment and vision. Thats why its called a VISION QUEST. You go to get information and bring it back, perhaps write it down....etc

 

I'd suggest starting with psylocybin. One of my friends who took it, said he couldnt stop thinking about infinite. Thats what happen to me, and energy... then I started to study that shizle...

 

Mantak Chia says drugs are like a fake orgasm. Chia says if you take LSD you get kan and li right away, but he says he prefers to go the slow way.

 

Heck, look at Tim leary? He was fucken crazy before he died, but he did contribute to our scholarly knowledge of psychedellics...

 

Terence Mckenna was fucken crazy with his experimentation, real out-there but also a skilled scientist.

 

You might want to check out the book Chaos Creativity and Cosmic Conciousness

 

Also, I should note. I was reading a book in the libary at my old college, about the immortals, I think it was poetry. Anyways, one of the immortals says "you want o know my thoughts? eat magic mushrooms and you will know my thoughts!" :lol:

364892121_l.jpg

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And trying out a tool will not make you either buddah or scarface.

 

Hehehe. Scarface. :lol:

 

I would try the psilocybin variety on inaugural run. I think everyone on the planet should have one mushroom experience. I don't believe it is a means or an end, but just a glimpse.

Bill Hicks calls the Psilocybin mushroom a squeegee for the third eye.

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I did shrooms and lsd a number of times in my early 20's. My experience is it's a rapid way to open up higher awareness but there were drawbacks.

 

1). The experience is temporary. After you wake up the next day(after being up all night) the experience was mostly a blur.

 

2). It burns jing up. Probably not a big deal if your just doing once in awhile but doing drugs every weekend for a sustained period of time=bad for qi.

 

3). The zen teacher John Daido Loori wrote in one of his books on the Buddhist precept of not to take intoxicants how marijuana dulls the mind and pscychadelics plaster the mind against the wall(or something like that).

 

I distinctly remember one of the last times I was tripping on shrooms in NY thinking about Loori's book that said shrooms plaster the mind against the wall..and basically agreeing.

 

But I won't lie to you..besides those drawbacks the experience was amazing at times. A deep sense of connection with life and almost violent level of openness. Like your chakras being blown open against your will. But probably that is due to poor planning. If your around people you really like or love I think the experience is much nicer.

 

I doubt I would be interested in tripping anymore since I am sure the same states and much higher can be achieved through meditation(and grounded in every day reality..not a far off experience that becomes a memory)

 

But I did sample all those drugs and had some crazy times. Funny your in your 40's with kids debating doing these things. What were you doing in the 70's and 80's being a "square" or something? hehe.

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Denty, can you expand on stabilization of clear light?

 

Also, Lerner, note that DMT is the chemical in the brain. Certainly if you practice the highest kan and li, you will have similar experiences of than with psychedelics.

 

Also, consider that Mantak Chia leads kan and li retreats in caves, this naturally induces DMT production in the brain - same thing as psychedelic tripping.

 

Also consider that the spinal cord fluid carries DMT - doing qigong is the same as tripping if you can pump the fluid properly, like with chi kung fundamentals of Winn (he claims).

 

Finally, consider that maybe you should learn all the Kan and Li and then go on a "vision quest" and compare you practice without and during shrooms. At least that way you will have an immortal perspective.

 

Also, I think if the weather is really nice outside, your at a river and really happy, perhaps surrounded by people you love you ARE going to have a great time. In contrast, if you go into the trip thinking it might be nightmare, the weather is bad, some people are home who might disturb you, the phone rings, etc etc... you get the point - its the situation that counts.

 

True, the mind can slow down on psychedelics or when tripping on cannabis. Actually, however, this is the mystical emptiness which is useful as per the tao teh ching's comments on the mystical center of emptiness.

 

If you can slow down your mind, thats good, if you can speed it up, thats good. That can also be bad, and that can also be bad. The point is balance like anything. When you trip, balance the mind and body - plan to do it. Also, balance the nervous systems, balance it all in the heart and through perfect clarity and stillness, but go into it prepared, because you heart will tend to speed up if your not.

 

My point is, go in prepared so you can bing something back for humanity. Don't go in completely blind (GO IN HALF BLIND) pissing in the wind, instead experience the truth of human evolution.

 

Also consider that Winn says the mind is a drug. Life is one big cosmic fungus. Lets make that fungi have a symbiotic relationship with god through orthodox unity.

Edited by GrandTrinity

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Just thought of something else... they call the Shaman a "wounded healer" for a reason!

 

Also, however, consider this:

 

We only live once, and there is no other heaven than the one we create on Earth.

Edited by GrandTrinity

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Denty, can you expand on stabilization of clear light?

 

 

Yes, when the light is consistent it's stable. Have you ever heard the phrase, "I have seen the light." The expression actually corresponds to a specific level of accomplishment. This is what Chia has been tying to accomplish with his "Dark room" experiment for the several years. It's basically a light free environment where participants do meditation in hopes of developing this basic achievement, which, by the way, Chia has not been able to do by his own admission. I do respect his attempts and it's kind of cool that he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars (I'm just guessing) to create a facility and provide night vision goggles to all his staff and have them sneaking in to clean up poop and stuff like little high tech ninjas.

 

Unfortunately, all this is really unnecessary and a little strange if not totally ridicules.

 

The term clear light is from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, but actually all of the various spiritual traditions have written of it. Very few achieve even this basic thing. You can read up on it in a book called the Clear Light of Bliss, but actually there are probably better books that give very clear descriptions of the various stages enlightenment and the states that accompany them. They are written about in many texts about Tantra.

 

S

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They clean up their shit? hahahaha night goggles? :lol:

 

Where/when did Chia "admit" that????

I do not beleive it!

 

So what is the clear light? Not the white, not the black but the lucid like transparent everything cosmic being that is ultimate supremely benevolent?

 

How do you feel on Kelsang Gyatso as a guide?

 

What is the secrets? Thanks.

 

Also, I just remembered another very important insight from Ken Wilber. He says its fine to do drugs as long as you also increase your level of development. By increasing your level of development, you study the mind or meditation. Perhaps this should be a standard policy in regards to people taking psychotic drugs? Perhaps one day.

 

However, the question here is about personal freedom. Shrooms are not legal, but now Im getting of topic. Actually, an interesting fact is that Fly Agaric (oh words...) Amanita Fungi are legal everywhere but Israel!!!!

 

Whoever does mushies - arm yourself with the following mandala and you will be relatively safe if not blissful:

Ying3.jpg C/O jeff.zaadz.com

Edited by GrandTrinity

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Question about Amanita Fungi... I'm assuming that if something is legal that it's about as efficacious as cough syrup (which is better than nothing, incidently). Any thoughts? If shrooms were legal, I'd do them in a second. That's the only thing that's holding me back. So if Amanita has it going on, and it's legal, then I'm in. Anyone tried them?

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no tv... cool side effect!

 

Here's more info on Fly Agaric:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria

 

It says it's "unscheduled" does that mean legal? It sounds more legal than normal shrooms.

 

If anyone is interested in fly agaric, keep in mind that the name, Amarita, and the look can be confused with extremely deadly mushrooms.

 

According to the wiki article, fly agaric may be connected to the Santa Claus myth. Also, wiki says that fly agaric and the normal 'shrooms' are very different from each other both in terms of active ingredients and subjective experience. Fly agaric may have been the original 'soma' food of the gods.

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Yes if you go to gnosicmedia.com you can see a 3 hour documentary about astrotheology (study of stars/heaven and religion) and shamanism- the universe, time and space...

 

I took amanitas once, your supposed to do 30 grams. They are not toxic if you eat them dried out. If you drink you pee (I didnt) you will trip more, and harder, recycling the active ingrediants for up to like 5 times.

 

WHen I took them, I had a serious experience. I felt like I could see into the future and simply felt a deep mytical emptiness. Everything seemed to be pulsing like in waves, as if my heart had merged with my environment.

 

Some of these effectss, Im sure, were due to anticipation that it would be like this.

 

One of theings I did on them was to figure out if I went throug earth, what lat and long atude would i come out at? someowhere in afghanistan...

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Question about Amanita Fungi... I'm assuming that if something is legal that it's about as efficacious as cough syrup (which is better than nothing, incidently). Any thoughts? If shrooms were legal, I'd do them in a second. That's the only thing that's holding me back. So if Amanita has it going on, and it's legal, then I'm in. Anyone tried them?

 

Luckily you can trust nature disobey laws :) If you wanted, you could learn to identify the right mushrooms (there are many different active ones) and find some after a good rain...

 

:ph34r:

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no tv... cool side effect!

 

Here's more info on Fly Agaric:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria

 

It says it's "unscheduled" does that mean legal? It sounds more legal than normal shrooms.

 

If anyone is interested in fly agaric, keep in mind that the name, Amarita, and the look can be confused with extremely deadly mushrooms.

 

According to the wiki article, fly agaric may be connected to the Santa Claus myth. Also, wiki says that fly agaric and the normal 'shrooms' are very different from each other both in terms of active ingredients and subjective experience. Fly agaric may have been the original 'soma' food of the gods.

 

I'm pretty sure unscheduled means it's not illegal. It's probably not on the DEA radar because it's not used that much. Every once in a while someone synthisizes a new hallucinogen (usually an MDA variant) that's legal because it hasn't made it into law yet. It runs the gamut of college parties for a year and then get's scheduled.

 

Im not sure you want to be doing fly agaric. It sounds like the hallucinogenic properties aren't really wonderful, and come with a lot of unpleasant physical manifestations. Speaking of unpleasant, I loved this part:

 

"The active ingredient is excreted in the urine of those consuming the mushrooms, and it has sometimes been the practice for a shaman to consume the mushrooms, and the rest of the tribe to drink his urine: the shaman, in effect, partially detoxifying the drug (the sweat- and twitch-causing muscarine is absent in the urine). This was also not an uncommon practice in Siberia, where the poor would consume the urine of the wealthy, who could afford to buy the mushrooms"

 

Quite an effort to go for a high.

 

Really, though, don't you live in Arizona? There's got to be shroomers out there. And as I mentioned before, san pedro is probably growing in your backyard.

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