My numbers are up

[hagar]

Being somewhat fed up with the whole 11:11 thing, and really detesting the hype of 2012, I've grown weary of all the pseudo-knowledge about numbers. Especially the "hidden meaning" that lies in randomly occuring numbers.

 

Yet I find myself constantly looking at them.

 

For a couple of weeks now, while looking at my digital clock on my phone, pc or other places, identical numbers keep popping up. Or rather, pairs of identical numbers. It's mostly time-related. Being on Norwegian time (being military time) it goes soemthing like this:

13:13, 21:21, 18:18, 10:10, and so on.

 

So anyone in for an explanation;

a) Chance?

the observer effect? (i.e. when wanting a Porsche, you see Porsches all around)

c) Unconscious editing out of all the instances that does not correspond to these occurences?

d) The universe is trying to tell me something?

 

Psedo-science is not science, but pseudo-explanation is still an explanation.

[Protector]

[Taomeow]

Well, I've started collecting evidence. Shopping receipts, bills, dinner tabs, stuff like that. Hard copies, so to speak. Coincidence theorists are having more fun at our expense than their fair share by debunking what's easy to debunk -- subjective perceptions. Something no one can "prove." Well, I'm gathering "objective" proof. Of course a hard-core coincidence theorist would still argue that I calculate my random grocery, gas, birthday gifts, etc.. purchases (plus tax) in advance to come up with $33.33 or $12.12 or the like almost every day and sometimes twice a day and sometimes more than twice in a single day every shopping day for more than a week or a month. Or that I know what a dinner for three or four will cost in advance too, by hypnotically suggesting the other participants what to order and then adjusting my own order (and calculating that plus tax in my head before ordering) to finish the meal with a check for $77.77. I can assure you I don't. And yet I'm really surprised these days when I get billed $77.76. Can't be. What does it mean? What went wrong?

 

So, besides the complex conspiracies a coincidence theorist would have to invoke in order to prove that nothing but a tedious eternal stretch of heartless, mindless, and completely meaningless coincidences comprises the core and essence of everybody's existence and of every occurrence in the universe, I think a simpler explanation is possible.

 

E.g., this one:

the universe is trying to tell us something.

 

For which, as I've mentioned, I'm collecting material proof, just for the hell of it. I don't know what I'm going to prove with it and to whom. But maybe a statistician will get enlightened on the spot by just looking at that collection, who knows. I don't know what it's about. I just know it's about time.

[hagar]

I had that experience while jet-lagged and waking up at odd hours my first weeks of my stay in the U.S.

[hagar]

Well, I've started collecting evidence. Shopping receipts, bills, dinner tabs, stuff like that. Hard copies, so to speak. Coincidence theorists are having more fun at our expense than their fair share by debunking what's easy to debunk -- subjective perceptions. Something no one can "prove." Well, I'm gathering "objective" proof. Of course a hard-core coincidence theorist would still argue that I calculate my random grocery, gas, birthday gifts, etc.. purchases (plus tax) in advance to come up with $33.33 or $12.12 or the like almost every day and sometimes twice a day and sometimes more than twice in a single day every shopping day for more than a week or a month. Or that I know what a dinner for three or four will cost in advance too, by hypnotically suggesting the other participants what to order and then adjusting my own order (and calculating that plus tax in my head before ordering) to finish the meal with a check for $77.77. I can assure you I don't. And yet I'm really surprised these days when I get billed $77.76. Can't be. What does it mean? What went wrong?

 

So, besides the complex conspiracies a coincidence theorist would have to invoke in order to prove that nothing but a tedious eternal stretch of heartless, mindless, and completely meaningless coincidences comprises the core and essence of everybody's existence and of every occurrence in the universe, I think a simpler explanation is possible.

 

E.g., this one:

the universe is trying to tell us something.

 

For which, as I've mentioned, I'm collecting material proof, just for the hell of it. I don't know what I'm going to prove with it and to whom. But maybe a statistician will get enlightened on the spot by just looking at that collection, who knows. I don't know what it's about. I just know it's about time.

 

Great TM! I'm back to square one!

 

First off, there is no such thing as an enlightened statistician.

Second, I do think that we imbue meaning into randomness; i.e "an accident never comes alone", "all good things are three", etc, etc.

 

The fact of the matter is that the most compelling explanation (not theory) of "synchronicity" or "having a bad year" is from mathematics: any number of occurences that arbitrarily happen (accidents, illness, bad luck, good luck, etc) it only shows that the definition of arbitrariness is that incidents happen with irregular intervals. This means that no incident of either a "bad" or "good", or even strange nature happen with equal intervals. The natural consequence being that sometimes they naturally clutter together and other times are far apart. This works also well for explaining the fact that some people seem to have more shit in their lives than others. Incidents are not equally distributed among individuals.

 

What does poke my interes is the state of mind I seem to be in when these numbers visit my life; a state of now, or flow, or emptiness. If I'm stuck in whatever neurotic pattern like the most of us, they seem to dissappear. In the same way that nice experiences seem to dissappear when I look for them.

 

To me they are like Elves. They appear when you stop searching.

 

h

[Birch]

Keeps happening to me too. I got fed up bothering about it.

Although, it did cause me to reconsider where I stand in relation to past and future and how time might "work".

Causality, stuff like that.

I don't feel I have an asymmetrical relationship to time any more. Used to be I "went through time". Now time is going through me. Or rather we're both in this together. But then I wonder, am I thinking too much again? People keep telling me to stop that;-)

 

BTW if you can stomach it enough to get into, statistics rule the world.

[hagar]

Keeps happening to me too. I got fed up bothering about it.

Although, it did cause me to reconsider where I stand in relation to past and future and how time might "work".

Causality, stuff like that.

I don't feel I have an asymmetrical relationship to time any more. Used to be I "went through time". Now time is going through me. Or rather we're both in this together. But then I wonder, am I thinking too much again? People keep telling me to stop that;-)

 

BTW if you can stomach it enough to get into, statistics rule the world.

 

Good to know I'm not alone. It really doesn't bother me, yet it challenges my academically trained monkey-mind. Especially as a case-study in the epistemological foundations of theoretical statistics.

 

Interesting what you say about your relationship with time. For me too, there is a clear perception of time as a deeply engrained concept based on consensus, yet together with the concept of space, it makes us able to land on the moon.

I feel that the question "is time real" isn't really spot on. As you say, it is our perception of time that is the key. But this is also thinking too much.

 

h

[Birch]

"Thinking too much" isn't IMO a problem. It's the type of thinking (too much of one type) and not enough of other types that's the problem:-$

[Taomeow]

Great TM! I'm back to square one!

 

First off, there is no such thing as an enlightened statistician.

Second, I do think that we imbue meaning into randomness; i.e "an accident never comes alone", "all good things are three", etc, etc.

 

The fact of the matter is that the most compelling explanation (not theory) of "synchronicity" or "having a bad year" is from mathematics: any number of occurences that arbitrarily happen (accidents, illness, bad luck, good luck, etc) it only shows that the definition of arbitrariness is that incidents happen with irregular intervals. This means that no incident of either a "bad" or "good", or even strange nature happen with equal intervals. The natural consequence being that sometimes they naturally clutter together and other times are far apart. This works also well for explaining the fact that some people seem to have more shit in their lives than others. Incidents are not equally distributed among individuals.

 

What does poke my interes is the state of mind I seem to be in when these numbers visit my life; a state of now, or flow, or emptiness. If I'm stuck in whatever neurotic pattern like the most of us, they seem to dissappear. In the same way that nice experiences seem to dissappear when I look for them.

 

To me they are like Elves. They appear when you stop searching.

 

h

 

LOL, no enlightened statisticians? but -K- says statisticians are the first ones to get enlightened? I guess you're both right, it depends on what you make of the numbers... the numbers are the crossroads, where do we go from here? E.g., far as "official" statistics are concerned, I respond the way a five-year-old might respond to the question "how much is two plus two" with a meaningful non-sequitur -- "I want some ice cream NOW." (I respond with "Who paid for the study?" and usually get my ice cream as soon as I find out, no need to wrack my brains anymore over why two plus two equals seventeen in this particular study, which is what I always see if you just believe the statistics without going through the door of the numbers to wherever it really leads.)

 

To a student of taoist arts and sciences, time is the primary subject of study, and one reason I got into things taoist was that I was into things "western" before and they don't faze in the nature of time, they all assume that all time is the same time, which is inherently absurd if you think about it. We accept somehow that "winter" and "summer" are not quite "the same time" (well, here in San Diego you could be fooled, but not in Norway), that "day" and "night" are not quite the same time, but that's about as far as we go. But ALL time is not the same time.

 

Just yesterday I was doing my round of walking qigong around a local lake, which takes exactly two hours to circumvent, starting at 3:30 pm, and at exactly 4:44, when I was well into my qigong-altered state, as the sun was going down, ALL the birds started singing SUDDENLY, as if responding to the baton of an invisible (to me, not to them) conductor, in all the trees surrounding the path. If you were to go to a concert, it would be starting at a specific place at a specific time, you wouldn't show up just anywhere anywhen to hear your favorite performer, you would find out when it starts where it happens, right? ALL times for ALL concerts are like that. Different "concerts" in the universe, in heaven and earth and humanity, as well as in an individual human life, start at different specific times, and others end, and others are performed over and over... Taoism studies this. It sees the nature of events as intimately intertwined with the timing of events in the universe, with the nature and quality of particular times, cycles, beginnings and ends of transformations of the energies of the world. You get into that, you start seeing some of the conductors, just like those birds do...

[Birch]

if you just believe the statistics without going through the door of the numbers to wherever it really leads.)

 

That was the point I was trying to point at :-)

[deci belle]

Yet I find myself constantly looking at them.

Doo stop, dear!❤

[hagar]

LOL, no enlightened statisticians? but -K- says statisticians are the first ones to get enlightened? I guess you're both right, it depends on what you make of the numbers... the numbers are the crossroads, where do we go from here? E.g., far as "official" statistics are concerned, I respond the way a five-year-old might respond to the question "how much is two plus two" with a meaningful non-sequitur -- "I want some ice cream NOW." (I respond with "Who paid for the study?" and usually get my ice cream as soon as I find out, no need to wrack my brains anymore over why two plus two equals seventeen in this particular study, which is what I always see if you just believe the statistics without going through the door of the numbers to wherever it really leads.)

 

To a student of taoist arts and sciences, time is the primary subject of study, and one reason I got into things taoist was that I was into things "western" before and they don't faze in the nature of time, they all assume that all time is the same time, which is inherently absurd if you think about it. We accept somehow that "winter" and "summer" are not quite "the same time" (well, here in San Diego you could be fooled, but not in Norway), that "day" and "night" are not quite the same time, but that's about as far as we go. But ALL time is not the same time.

 

Just yesterday I was doing my round of walking qigong around a local lake, which takes exactly two hours to circumvent, starting at 3:30 pm, and at exactly 4:44, when I was well into my qigong-altered state, as the sun was going down, ALL the birds started singing SUDDENLY, as if responding to the baton of an invisible (to me, not to them) conductor, in all the trees surrounding the path. If you were to go to a concert, it would be starting at a specific place at a specific time, you wouldn't show up just anywhere anywhen to hear your favorite performer, you would find out when it starts where it happens, right? ALL times for ALL concerts are like that. Different "concerts" in the universe, in heaven and earth and humanity, as well as in an individual human life, start at different specific times, and others end, and others are performed over and over... Taoism studies this. It sees the nature of events as intimately intertwined with the timing of events in the universe, with the nature and quality of particular times, cycles, beginnings and ends of transformations of the energies of the world. You get into that, you start seeing some of the conductors, just like those birds do...

 

Wonderful post! Your understanding of the relationship between epistemology and scientific method far surpasses my own.

 

Timing as you say, is what Daoist science introduces, as almost an overarching paradigm. The phases of every aspect of nature, humanity and the arts is actually the only commom concept and probably the key to grasp the vast difference in method and theory to western sciences, arts and even mystical traditions (not all). Both pagan and norse mythology had similar approaches in things cyclical.

 

But when it comes to numbers, it has just gotten "worse" for me. All day, every day now I see pairings of identical numbers all over the place. Not every time but it's significant: probably more than 50% of the time.

 

h

[Sloppy Zhang]

Both pagan and norse mythology had similar approaches in things cyclical.

 

Maybe it's just me, but in these past couple of months I've become more and more interested in Norse related stuff (and to a certain extent, pagan as well).

 

Maybe I just saw that movie "Thor", but something about it suddenly started to appeal to me...

Edited December 2, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[hagar]

[NeiChuan]

Funny thing, I never found any resonance in when people would talk of 12:12 11:11 ect.

 

But for about 8 or 9 months I've seeing the number 3:16 and it's becoming more and more frequent. Very much so even.

 

I like to wonder, and wait in anticipation to learn what it would mean to me. Right now im at a loss about it though.

 

Neichuan

Edited December 3, 2011 by NeiChuan

[Taomeow]

Funny thing, I never found any resonance in when people would talk of 12:12 11:11 ect.

 

But for about 8 or 9 months I've seeing the number 3:16 and it's becoming more and more frequent. Very much so even.

 

I like to wonder, and wait in anticipation to learn what it would mean to me. Right now im at a loss about it though.

 

Neichuan

 

From Wiki:

 

John 3:16 (chapter 3, verse 16 of the Gospel of John) is one of the most widely quoted verses from the Christian Bible,^[1] and has been called the most famous Bible verse.^[2] It has also been called the "Gospel in a nutshell"^[2] because it is considered a summary of the central dogma of traditional Christianity:

 

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. —

John 3:16

Does it make any sense to you?

[Birch]

Ok, got a recept for 14:14 yesterday;-)

 

For the clock thing, I reckon just more time spent in the presence of clocks does it. However, the receipt thing is weird. Still not worried but what on earth are the double numbers about? Am I supposed to smile back or something?

 

Anyway, as TaoMeow pointed out. Time itself is the thing. And as Drew H points out, music is the other thing. Just thought I mention it.

[dfissionr]

I'm so happy this thread was created. I have been questioning my sanity lately and it is a bit relieving to see other people noticing these number occurrences whether or not they mean something.

 

For the past year I have been seeing 111, 222, 333, etc mostly on something that displays the time. I see 1:11 or 11:11 the most, to the point where it happens almost everyday. I like to think I'm not "trying" to see it but maybe my brain is just making a point to remember out of all the times I look at a clock, to remember 1:11/11:11 moments the most? Then again I've been looking at clocks/time displays almost all my life especially after I started working in a cube farm 4 years ago and I never have had this problem before.

 

I can't offer any valuable insight to this thread but thank you all for making me not feel crazy.

[Taomeow]

I can't offer any valuable insight to this thread but thank you all for making me not feel crazy.

 

and what a glorious feeling it is! reminds me of when I first discovered taoism which legitimized the concepts I had no words for before -- qi, shen qi and sha' qi, ganying, wuxhing, the Eight Directions... all the goodies that plagued my bodymind with tantalizing "knowing" which I couldn't define or express, and made me alternate between frantic research and tongue-tied attempts to explain, which of course only made any average explainee question my sanity! How I danced when I discovered it's already been discovered!

 

So, not a repeat performance this time, not frantic, not chaotic, but random enough because I'm still not completely on it --

I determined that the things to study (besides sacred geometry, numerology, taoist astrology, feng shui, and deep history) in order to understand the phenomenon better are crystallography and mineralogy. (Keeping in mind that DNA is a crystalline structure and crystals grow and shape themselves via communication with meaningful signals from other crystals, communications not limited by proximity but very sensitive to spacial configurations and the timing of the signal.). The first foray has yielded some interesting results, so I'll keep going. E.g., here's a list of chemical elements that have repetititve atomic numbers:

 

11 Sodium

22 Titanium

33 Arsenic

44 Ruthenium

55 Cesium

66 Dysprosium

77 Iridium

88 Radium

99 Einsteinium

 

 

See a pattern?.. If not, take a plunge into the properties of these elements and, furthermore, their functions in biological processes -- and in social ones too!

[dfissionr]

and what a glorious feeling it is! reminds me of when I first discovered taoism which legitimized the concepts I had no words for before -- qi, shen qi and sha' qi, ganying, wuxhing, the Eight Directions... all the goodies that plagued my bodymind with tantalizing "knowing" which I couldn't define or express, and made me alternate between frantic research and tongue-tied attempts to explain, which of course only made any average explainee question my sanity! How I danced when I discovered it's already been discovered!

 

So, not a repeat performance this time, not frantic, not chaotic, but random enough because I'm still not completely on it --

I determined that the things to study (besides sacred geometry, numerology, taoist astrology, feng shui, and deep history) in order to understand the phenomenon better are crystallography and mineralogy. (Keeping in mind that DNA is a crystalline structure and crystals grow and shape themselves via communication with meaningful signals from other crystals, communications not limited by proximity but very sensitive to spacial configurations and the timing of the signal.). The first foray has yielded some interesting results, so I'll keep going. E.g., here's a list of chemical elements that have repetititve atomic numbers:

 

11 Sodium

22 Titanium

33 Arsenic

44 Ruthenium

55 Cesium

66 Dysprosium

77 Iridium

88 Radium

99 Einsteinium

 

 

See a pattern?.. If not, take a plunge into the properties of these elements and, furthermore, their functions in biological processes -- and in social ones too!

 

Wow I never would have thought of linking these numbers to the atomic weights of elements, that's pretty awesome. I learned about some of those elements you listed 10 years ago in high school chemistry which means I don't remember jack or jill about them and I certainly fail to see the pattern lol. You've sparked my curiosity though... But I got a lot of reading to do now

[hagar]

Update on reoccuring numbers:

 

Its getting pretty eerie. No it's probably up to about 50% of every clock or watch I look at, or my cell; numbers like 11:11. 14:14. etc, etc.

 

It is beyond mere chance, and the occurances are by any metrics or method significant.

I am deeply reluctant to admit so, being a sceptic at heart. But the last month I've been looking at double digit numbers in pairs every day all the time.

 

Its a mystery

 

h

[steve]

Its a mystery

 

h

This is the key - if we understood, it would be less intriguing, less inspiring.

The mystery is delicious, the answers are meaningless - rationalizations, associations, projections...

Indulge yourself in the mystery!

[Aaron]

Being somewhat fed up with the whole 11:11 thing, and really detesting the hype of 2012, I've grown weary of all the pseudo-knowledge about numbers. Especially the "hidden meaning" that lies in randomly occuring numbers.

 

Yet I find myself constantly looking at them.

 

For a couple of weeks now, while looking at my digital clock on my phone, pc or other places, identical numbers keep popping up. Or rather, pairs of identical numbers. It's mostly time-related. Being on Norwegian time (being military time) it goes soemthing like this:

13:13, 21:21, 18:18, 10:10, and so on.

 

So anyone in for an explanation;

a) Chance?

the observer effect? (i.e. when wanting a Porsche, you see Porsches all around)

c) Unconscious editing out of all the instances that does not correspond to these occurences?

d) The universe is trying to tell me something?

 

Psedo-science is not science, but pseudo-explanation is still an explanation.

 

I think you're experiencing synchronicity. It can't be explained, and mathematically is highly unlikely, but it does happen, and as Steve and others have said, it's a mystery and that's part of the fun. Also keep in mind that you have an internal clock that's very accurate, you could be unconsciously looking at the clock when there are double digits.

 

I don't think it's a harbinger of doom, if that's what you're worried about, just a very random phenomena that's occurring to you. After reading a book about demon possession and hauntings that stated 3:33 was the minute of the devil, I woke up about once or twice a week at 3:33am and seemed to notice the time on the clock as well. Was I being followed by supernatural forces, leaving this as my warning to beware? Highly unlikely, more likely that I was just hyper-aware when that time popped up.

 

No worries, it will pass. I think most likely at 11:11 or 12:12 or maybe 04:04? Who knows.

 

Aaron

Edited January 13, 2012 by Twinner

[thelerner]

I'd add that some people have pretty well timed clocks ticking in there heads. For instance they can say to themselves at night 'I want to wake up at 6:04' and they will. Next morning same thing but set there clock at 6:15 and they'll wake up exactly on time.

 

Its a mundane explanation but you may have a well developed internal clock. It knows the time and if asked you'd 'guess' accurately. Because you noticed the numbers and showed interest, your subconscious is rewarding you with more.

[hagar]

This is the key - if we understood, it would be less intriguing, less inspiring.

The mystery is delicious, the answers are meaningless - rationalizations, associations, projections...

Indulge yourself in the mystery!

 

The mystery, Yes.

 

Much more important than the numbers.

 

Synchronicity...Does it really exist outside our need for it to exist. I have not yet looked into chaos theory and fuzzy logic, but this baffles my mind.

 

Thelerner:

You are probably right.

 

h