The Error of the Buddha

[Astral Monk]

[bindo]

Thank you xabir 2005 and Astral Monk for your well thought out responses. Those were the kind of answers I was looking for.

 

I'm not trying to challenge anyone's beliefs so much as I 'm trying to understand them. Thank you!

 

 

 

As far as Sri Aurobindo's philosophy being advaita non dual brahman....in essence it is correct, but not in any traditional way, so it's difficult to categorize it since he broke from traditional Indian thought.

 

Ken Wilber and Sri Aurobindo are too different to just slap the same label on both of them.

 

***I'm abandoning this thread*** Thank you everyone for your replies.

Edited January 8, 2010 by bindo

[dwai]

Please don't assume this article speaks 100% for me! I didn't write it. The title of the article sucks, among other problems. I don't believe Buddha made an error, but I do believe in spiritual evolution.

 

As a student of Sri Aurobindo's teachings, I can assure you he had nothing but great respect for Buddha.

 

There are so many differing opinions about the true teachings of the Buddha that one is either forced to generalize or say nothing. Otherwise a simple article would become book length so everyone could be addressed.

 

While his tone could be a little softer, I don't think the author shows contempt for Buddhism. He is only suggesting there is more, beyond what the Buddha taught.

 

Despite what is written on the internet, Sri Aurobindo is not a Hindu. He was in his younger years for some 12 years only. Later becoming somewhat critical of Hinduism, at least as a formal religion. (But that's a whole different topic).

 

I agree Buddha (and Lao Tzu) were way ahead of their time. I also believe Sri Aurobindo is way ahead of our present time.

 

I think this article was based on the following quote by Sri Aurobindo.

 

"The traditions of the past are very great in their own place, in the past, but I do not see why we should merely repeat them and not go farther. In the spiritual development of the consciousness upon earth the great past ought to be followed by a greater future."

 

Sri Aurobindo The Integral Yoga p.35

 

Aurobindo focused on Hindu Scriptures, The Vedas, Upanishads, interpreted Yoga (a Very Hindu Practice) and yet is not a Hindu? Surely you jest?

 

Thank you xabir 2005 and Astral Monk for your well thought out responses. Those were the kind of answers I was looking for.

 

I'm not trying to challenge anyone's beliefs so much as I 'm trying to understand them. Thank you!

As far as Sri Aurobindo's philosophy being advaita non dual brahman....in essence it is correct, but not in any traditional way, so it's difficult to categorize it since he broke from traditional Indian thought.

 

Ken Wilber and Sri Aurobindo are too different to just slap the same label on both of them.

 

***I'm abandoning this thread*** Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

Indian philosophy (of which Advaita is a part) never calls for dogmatic adherence to something. It provides a framework within which a thinker should intelligently navigate. There is nothing "un-Hindu" about Aurbindo's work. In fact it is very Hindu and very much in line with his Vedic lineage. He was a Rishi in the classic Upanishadic/Vedic tradition and although his language was english, he has presented Upanishadic thought.

[voidisyinyang]

Blasto you paid thousands of dollars for organic food and mantra chanting in Iowa? How was that?

 

Also all your music examples were WESTERN Music -- which Indeed I do dismiss all in one gesture. I happen to be listening to Anuradha Paudwal bhagans right now -- drowns out my dad's t.v. -- while I sit in full-lotus to heal my parents' of their constant battle against the colds that my sister's family chronically transmit when they visit. haha.

 

O.K. Shakira is possibly not Western so I'll check that out. You can check out my nonwestern music propaganda as Taoism blog http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com

 

Two seconds of Shakira told me she's definitely Western. Yep. Let's generalize the subject of music.

 

Imagine what would happen if we generalized the subject of music the way the subject of Buddhism gets generalized. When speaking of music, it would all be the same. Brittany Spears, Stravinsky, Bach, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Shakira, children's lullabies, all the same, all equal in sophistication, all emoting the same reaction, all worthy of the same artistic merit...

 

This is Wilkinson's Straw Dog. The number of misrepresentations in this essay are too numerous and too convoluted to possibly plow through in this forum. The intellectual level that has been attained by the decades-old academic dialogue between Buddhism and the physical, biological, social and behavioral sciences leaves Wilkinson's ancient animosities in the dust. When I was at Maharishi International University, back in the 90s, the contempt for Buddhist thought was off the charts. Buddha recognized the corrupt Hindu orthodoxy of his day for what it was, and some folks are still holding the grudge.

 

The fact that the Buddha realized the constructed nature of the self and the world(s) we create, 2,500 years before our own postmodern realization, our modern pyschological and ecological sciences, is THE testament to his imaginative genius. He lived in the Iron Age, but with respect to the Big Questions, he was way ahead of anyone at the time (with the exception of Lao Tse, of course).

PS - For one of the most respected pieces of contemporary Buddhist scholarship pertaining to agnostic Buddhism, you can pick up "Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor. Batchelor's yet-to-be-released book is entitled "Confessions of a Buddhist Aetheist." Stripped of all the orthodoxies that typically acrete around original ideas, the essence of what the Buddha taught is remarkably consistent with cutting edge science of all kinds. Sadly, his teachings get bantered about with all the recklessness of Jesus' alleged teachings. Hard to avoid, I presume.

Edited January 8, 2010 by drewhempel

[bindo]

Edited January 8, 2010 by bindo

[voidisyinyang]

Edited January 8, 2010 by drewhempel

[C T]

Drew, with all due respect, in spite of your brilliant 23rd century mind, i think you are well-stuck

with your obsession around this Full Lotus thing. If ever rebirth is a reality, i'd say in your past life

you were some hermit who spent 50 years sitting in some cave obsessing over this posture,

and carried the seeds over to this life, still unable to shake it off. Looks like its gonna be another

re-run in your next life buddy. Be prepared!

[voidisyinyang]

Have you read my new book yet?

 

http://www.lulu.com/content/8177540

 

It's about how the Full-lotus is really just the most efficient practice of the yin-yang ratios -- as a tetrahedron is made up of 8 triangles each 2:3:4 ratios and 2:3 is yang while 3:4 is yin.

 

So it's not just the full-lotus -- all of qigong and even the three gunas of Vedic philosophy are based on this natural resonance revolution.

 

Still last night in my dream Chunyi Lin was trying to tell me about my past lives. haha.

 

Ramana Maharshi has a good response about that old hang up.

 

Drew, with all due respect, in spite of your brilliant 23rd century mind, i think you are well-stuck

with your obsession around this Full Lotus thing. If ever rebirth is a reality, i'd say in your past life

you were some hermit who spent 50 years sitting in some cave obsessing over this posture,

and carried the seeds over to this life, still unable to shake it off. Looks like its gonna be another

re-run in your next life buddy. Be prepared!

[bindo]

Does anybody on this forum have the ability to actually stay on topic? Holy crap, man.

 

 

Drew, they didn't teach anyone to depend on "shakti transmissions". It's called darshan and doesn't depend on whether or not the "guru" is alive. It's a natural occurence of one's spiritual practice, in this case from the Divine Mother.

 

Whatever is currently going on in the Ashram has nothing to do with Aurobindo's teachings. Aurobindo never wanted an ashram in the first place. Others say the ashram has had problems since 1920, or whenever The Mother took over it's operations.

[voidisyinyang]

Well as long as we get the lingo down. It's all really just technicalities in the end -- bureaucratic formalities, etc. Yes perfection is in our midst.

 

Carry on. Please.

 

Does anybody on this forum have the ability to actually stay on topic? Holy crap, man.

Drew, they didn't teach anyone to depend on "shakti transmissions". It's called darshan and doesn't depend on whether or not the "guru" is alive. It's a natural occurence of one's spiritual practice, in this case from the Divine Mother.

 

Whatever is currently going on in the Ashram has nothing to do with Aurobindo's teachings. Aurobindo never wanted an ashram in the first place. Others say the ashram has had problems since 1920, or whenever The Mother took over it's operations.

[bindo]

[dwai]

[Encephalon]

Blasto you paid thousands of dollars for organic food and mantra chanting in Iowa? How was that?

 

It was extraordinary. I spent the first morning in Iowa on my back, under my '65 Valiant, in the snow, in a

-15 degree temperature, removing the frozen hoses from my engine block and thawing them out in the locker room (I failed to adjust my antifreeze mixture for cryogenic weather conditions). I'm just lucky my engine block didn't rupture.

 

I only lasted six months. It was hands down THE most dysfunctional environment I've ever been in, and I've lived in many different situations. They were perhaps the most deluded, anti-intellectual, superstitious and sexually repressed group of folks I've ever witnessed, but yeah, the food was good, and the chicks were hot, especially all the Eastern Europeans. They were only having sex with each other, evidently, because most of the men were just too fucked up.

 

Anyway, I sold my mantra on Ebay. But enough about MIU. Where's the DMT?

 

Sorry for the slightly tangential departure from topic.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Blasto

[voidisyinyang]

Vivekananda was also a FREEMASON and Aurobindo certainly had a strong political engagement -- he had to hide out in the French enclave for example.

 

Vivekananda taught that Western science is the EXTERNAL PATH. Aurobindo taught similarly.

 

Ramana Maharshi, on the other hand, DISAGREED WITH AUROBINDO and stated explicitly:

 

THERE IS NO EVOLUTION.

 

So actually Vivekananda and Aurobindo were Westernized and materialistic compared to Ramana Maharshi.

 

Does that mean Ramana Maharshi is better? No all three were working from the history of patriarchal Brahminism.

 

So while Ramana Maharshi practiced pure left-brain mind yoga as logical inference Vivekananda and Aurobindo incorporated karma yoga, raja yoga, etc. with the intention of making physical reality improved, etc.

 

But the technology to "improve" society was still based on left-brain axiomatic logic, as per the history of Vedic science using "divide and average" mathematics. This is still a patriarchial Brahminism because it attempts to "contain infinity" through geometry -- which is also what Freemasonry is. The Pythagorean Theorem has been traced to 3,000 BCE India by Professor Abraham Seidenberg.

 

So the technology is from Brahmin ritualistic geometry relying on mass ritual sacrifice. First it was used for chariot technology -- to find the center of the circle -- but was justified as converting circular female altars for lunar energy into square solar altars for patriarchal Brahminism -- I'm talking about the Pythagorean Theorem.

 

Yeah so the West is just an extension of Vedic science and Vedic spirituality.

 

Hindu Nationalism has nothing to do with Sanatana Dharma (or Eternal Dharma which we call Hinduism). Hindu Nationalism is a political backlash against corrosion of cultural values in Indian society and marginalization of a group (majority) of Indians.

 

Sri Aurobindo and Swami Vivekananda were 200% Hindu in the sense that they belonged, learned from and taught Sanatana Dharma. No amount of new-agey and Humanist wishywashy thinking is going to change that fact.

 

The fact that the "followers" of these two stalwarts of Hinduism tend to now claim certain things due to political and social opportunism is not the same as Swamiji or Sri Aurobindo rejecting their Hindu roots!

 

Yes...they both espoused Selfless service of all Humanity and a certain Universality, but that was because of Advaita Vedanta, which was their core discipline of spiritual and philosophical rigor, not some new-agey touchy-feely whim!

 

 

Sorry about that whole antifreeze deal. As a Minnesotan I've disowned cars since 2001 -- preferring to bike in the winter -- but my parents are forcing me to take some remedial AARP driving exam, etc. haha.

 

Still that is truly amazing. there's been a lot of exposes on T.M. including John Lennon and Yoko Ono taking on the big M himself.

 

Glad you survived and hope you can work through all that pent up sexual fantasy tension. I'm still dreaming about my first love from middle school even though we were just Platonic. haha.

 

It was extraordinary. I spent the first morning in Iowa on my back, under my '65 Valiant, in the snow, in a

-15 degree temperature, removing the frozen hoses from my engine block and thawing them out in the locker room (I failed to adjust my antifreeze mixture for cryogenic weather conditions). I'm just lucky my engine block didn't rupture.

 

I only lasted six months. It was hands down THE most dysfunctional environment I've ever been in, and I've lived in many different situations. They were perhaps the most deluded, anti-intellectual, superstitious and sexually repressed group of folks I've ever witnessed, but yeah, the food was good, and the chicks were hot, especially all the Eastern Europeans. They were only having sex with each other, evidently, because most of the men were just too fucked up.

 

Anyway, I sold my mantra on Ebay. But enough about MIU. Where's the DMT?

 

Sorry for the slightly tangential departure from topic.

[markern]

It was extraordinary. I spent the first morning in Iowa on my back, under my '65 Valiant, in the snow, in a

-15 degree temperature, removing the frozen hoses from my engine block and thawing them out in the locker room (I failed to adjust my antifreeze mixture for cryogenic weather conditions). I'm just lucky my engine block didn't rupture.

 

I only lasted six months. It was hands down THE most dysfunctional environment I've ever been in, and I've lived in many different situations. They were perhaps the most deluded, anti-intellectual, superstitious and sexually repressed group of folks I've ever witnessed, but yeah, the food was good, and the chicks were hot, especially all the Eastern Europeans. They were only having sex with each other, evidently, because most of the men were just too fucked up.

 

Anyway, I sold my mantra on Ebay. But enough about MIU. Where's the DMT?

 

Sorry for the slightly tangential departure from topic.

 

hahaha what kind of place was this? What were they practicing and what did they belive to get so disturbed?

[bindo]

You've been misinformed.

 

This is from Sri Aurobindo's own pen;

 

"The Ashram has nothing to do with Hindu religion or culture or any religion or nationality. The truth of the Divine which is the spiritual reality behind all religions and the descent of the supramental which is not known to any religion are the sole things which will be the foundation of the work of the future". - The Integral Yoga p.353

 

Many believe a split has occured between sanatana dharma and Hinduism, including Sri Aurobindo. Not everybody considers them the exact same thing. Or they will differentiate between original Hinduism and conventional Hinduism, or lower Hinduism and higher Hinduism.

 

He said he doesn't care if Hinduism crumbles and disappears from the face of the earth. Would a Hindu say that?

 

If you want to believe he was a Hindu, go ahead. I don't care. If you do the research, you'll find plenty of evidence, from his own pen, that shows he wasn't a Hindu.

[Gerard]

You've been misinformed.

 

This is from Sri Aurobindo's own pen;

 

"The Ashram has nothing to do with Hindu religion or culture or any religion or nationality. The truth of the Divine which is the spiritual reality behind all religions and the descent of the supramental which is not known to any religion are the sole things which will be the foundation of the work of the future". - The Integral Yoga p.353

 

Many believe a split has occured between sanatana dharma and Hinduism, including Sri Aurobindo...

 

I wish the Buddha could come back and have the opportunity for an interview with it. The Buddha would certainly agree that the original essence we are all made of (spirit/consciouness) is formless and trascends all reality.

 

Now, Buddhism represented an off-shoot of organised and established Hinduism very much like a big large elephant with many different defined elements. The Buddha disagreed with that and came up with a solution.

 

When you are deep into Vipassana practice the surface becomes clear and form dissolves letting us get a clearer picture of the ultimate reality: NO MIND-PEELED MIND-BEYOND MIND-BEYOND THE NO MIND. Conceptualisation loses its value.

 

Religion is FORM. I personally prefer to stay away from anything that gives you a path to follow.

[bobby]

If we take an unvarnished look at what Buddha taught, not the kind of humanism it has morphed into today, it can only be understood as a strategy of escapism based on a denial of the World, the Feminine Principle and the Human Soul. -quote.

 

this is incorrect....

 

buddha didn`t deny them....

 

he simply didn`t address that matter for one simple reason.....

 

his teachings are for the elimination of suffering and nothing else.....

 

when asked about god buddha said.....

 

the existence of god can not be proven nor disproven.....

 

therefore to debate it is a waste of time....

 

however the existence of suffering can be proven quite easily.....

 

because everyone suffers.....

 

in the realms of samsara....

Edited January 9, 2010 by bobby

[dwai]

You've been misinformed.

 

This is from Sri Aurobindo's own pen;

 

"The Ashram has nothing to do with Hindu religion or culture or any religion or nationality. The truth of the Divine which is the spiritual reality behind all religions and the descent of the supramental which is not known to any religion are the sole things which will be the foundation of the work of the future". - The Integral Yoga p.353

 

Many believe a split has occured between sanatana dharma and Hinduism, including Sri Aurobindo. Not everybody considers them the exact same thing. Or they will differentiate between original Hinduism and conventional Hinduism, or lower Hinduism and higher Hinduism.

 

He said he doesn't care if Hinduism crumbles and disappears from the face of the earth. Would a Hindu say that?

 

If you want to believe he was a Hindu, go ahead. I don't care. If you do the research, you'll find plenty of evidence, from his own pen, that shows he wasn't a Hindu.

 

No you are mistaken. I don't blame you...there's a lot of vested interest in promoting all Yoga as somehow non-Hindu, so people of other faiths can feel less hypocritical about practicing...

 

I give you the Uttarpara Speech of Sri Aurobindo in which he talks about Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma and Nationalism). It is a good idea to not keep a limited view of Aurobindo, because he was a lot more than the founder of Integral Yoga. First and foremost, he was a stalwart who revitalized Hinduism and The Modern Indian Nation, acting as the muse and guiding light for India's Freedom Movement.

 

Sri Aurobindo

Uttarpara Speech

30 May 1909

By Sri Aurobindo

When I was asked to speak to you at

the annual meeting of your Sabha, it

was my intention to say a few words

about the subject chosen for today, the

subject of the Hindu religion. I do not

know now whether I shall fulfil that

intention; for as I sat here, there came

into my mind a word that I have to

speak to you, a word that I have to

speak to the whole of the Indian

Nation. It was spoken first to myself in

jail and I have come out of jail to speak

it to my people.

It was more than a year ago that I came

here last. When I came I was not alone;

Uttarpara Speech

2

one of the mightiest prophets of

Nationalism (Bepin Chandra Pal) sat by

my side. It was he who then came out

of the seclusion to which God had sent

him, so that in the silence and solitude

of his cell he might hear the word that

He had to say. It was he that you came

in your hundreds to welcome. Now he

is far away, separated from us by

thousands of miles. Others whom I was

accustomed to find working beside me

are absent. The storm that swept over

the country has scattered them far and

wide. It is I this time who have spent

one year in seclusion, and now that I

come out I find all changed. One who

always sat by my side and was

associated in my work is a prisoner in

Burma; another is in the north rotting

in detention. I looked round when I

came out, I looked round for those to

Uttarpara Speech

3

whom I had been accustomed to look

for counsel and inspiration. I did not

find them. There was more than that.

When I went to jail the whole country

was alive with the cry of Bande

Mataram, alive with the hope of a

nation, the hope of millions of men

who had newly risen out of

degradation. When I came out of jail I

listened for that cry, but there was

instead a silence. A hush had fallen on

the country and men seemed

bewildered; for instead of God's bright

heaven full of the vision of the future

that had been before us, there seemed

to be overhead a leaden sky from

which human thunders and lightnings

rained. No man seemed to know which

way to move, and from all sides came

the question, "What shall we do next?

What is there that we can do?" I too

Uttarpara Speech

4

did not know which way to move, I too

did not know what was next to be

done. But one thing I knew, that as it

was the Almighty Power of God which

had raised that cry, that hope, so it was

the same Power which had sent down

that silence. He who was in the

shouting and the movement was also in

the pause and the hush. He has sent it

upon us, so that the nation might draw

back for a moment and look into itself

and know His will. I have not been

disheartened by that silence because I

had been made familiar with silence in

my prison and because I knew it was in

the pause and the hush that I had

myself learned this lesson through the

long year of my detention. When Bepin

Chandra Pal came out of jail, he came

with a message, and it was an inspired

message. I remember the speech he

Uttarpara Speech

5

made here. It was a speech not so

much political as religious in its bearing

and intention. He spoke of his

realisation in jail, of God within us all,

of the Lord within the nation, and in his

subsequent speeches also he spoke of

a greater than ordinary force in the

movement and a greater than ordinary

purpose before it. Now I also meet you

again, I also come out of jail, and again

it is you of Uttarpara who are the first

to welcome me, not at a political

meeting but at a meeting of a society

for the protection of our religion. That

message which Bepin Chandra Pal

received in Buxar jail, God gave to me

in Alipore. That knowledge He gave to

me day after day during my twelve

months of imprisonment and it is that

which He has commanded me to speak

to you now that I have come out.

Uttarpara Speech

6

I knew I would come out. The year of

detention was meant only for a year of

seclusion and of training. How could

anyone hold me in jail longer than was

necessary for God's purpose? He had

given me a word to speak and a work

to do, and until that word was spoken I

knew that no human power could hush

me, until that work was done no

human power could stop God's

instrument, however weak that

instrument might be or however small.

Now that I have come out, even in

these few minutes, a word has been

suggested to me which I had no wish to

speak. The thing I had in my mind He

has thrown from it and what I speak is

under an impulse and a compulsion.

When I was arrested and hurried to the

Lal Bazar hajat I was shaken in faith for

Uttarpara Speech

7

a while, for I could not look into the

heart of His intention. Therefore I

faltered for a moment and cried out in

my heart to Him, "What is this that has

happened to me? I believed that I had a

mission to work for the people of my

country and until that work was done, I

should have Thy protection. Why then

am I here and on such a charge?" A day

passed and a second day and a third,

when a voice came to me from within,

"Wait and see." Then I grew calm and

waited, I was taken from Lal Bazar to

Alipore and was placed for one month

in a solitary cell apart from men. There

I waited day and night for the voice of

God within me, to know what He had

to say to me, to learn what I had to do.

In this seclusion the earliest realisation,

the first lesson came to me. I

remembered then that a month or

Uttarpara Speech

8

more before my arrest, a call had come

to me to put aside all activity, to go in

seclusion and to look into myself, so

that I might enter into closer

communion with Him. I was weak and

could not accept the call. My work was

very dear to me and in the pride of my

heart I thought that unless I was there,

it would suffer or even fail and cease;

therefore I would not leave it. It

seemed to me that He spoke to me

again and said, "The bonds you had not

the strength to break, I have broken for

you, because it is not my will nor was it

ever my intention that that should

continue. I have had another thing for

you to do and it is for that I have

brought you here, to teach you what

you could not learn for yourself and to

train you for my work." Then He placed

the Gita in my hands. His strength

Uttarpara Speech

9

entered into me and I was able to do

the sadhana of the Gita. I was not only

to understand intellectually but to

realise what Sri Krishna demanded of

Arjuna and what He demands of those

who aspire to do His work, to be free

from repulsion and desire, to do work

for Him without the demand for fruit,

to renounce self-will and become a

passive and faithful instrument in His

hands, to have an equal heart for high

and low, friend and opponent, success

and failure, yet not to do His work

negligently. I realised what the Hindu

religion meant. We speak often of the

Hindu religion, of the Sanatana

Dharma, but few of us really know

what that religion is. Other religions are

preponderatingly religions of faith and

profession, but the Sanatana Dharma is

life itself; it is a thing that has not so

Uttarpara Speech

10

much to be believed as lived. This is the

Dharma that for the salvation of

humanity was cherished in the

seclusion of this peninsula from of old.

It is to give this religion that India is

rising. She does not rise as other

countries do, for self or when she is

strong, to trample on the weak. She is

rising to shed the eternal light

entrusted to her over the world. India

has always existed for humanity and

not for herself and it is for humanity

and not for herself that she must be

great.

Therefore this was the next thing He

pointed out to me, - He made me

realise the central truth of the Hindu

religion. He turned the hearts of my

jailors to me and they spoke to the

Englishman in charge of the jail, "He is

Uttarpara Speech

11

suffering in his confinement; let him at

least walk outside his cell for half an

hour in the morning and in the

evening." So it was arranged, and it was

while I was walking that His strength

again entered into me. I looked the jail

that secluded me from men and it was

no longer by its high walls that I was

imprisoned; no, it was Vasudeva who

surrounded me. I walked under the

branches of the tree in front of my cell

but it was not the tree, I knew it was

Vasudeva, it was Sri Krishna whom I

saw standing there and holding over

me his shade. I looked at the bars of my

cell, the very grating that did duty for a

door and again I saw Vasudeva. It was

Narayana who was guarding and

standing sentry over me. Or I lay on the

coarse blankets that were given me for

a couch and felt the arms of Sri Krishna

Uttarpara Speech

12

around me, the arms of my Friend and

Lover. This was the first use of the

deeper vision He gave me. I looked at

the prisoners in the jail, the thieves, the

murderers, the swindlers, and as I

looked at them I saw Vasudeva, it was

Narayana whom I found in these

darkened souls and misused bodies.

Amongst these thieves and dacoits

there were many who put me to shame

by their sympathy, their kindness, the

humanity triumphant over such

adverse circumstances. One I saw

among them especially, who seemed to

me a saint, a peasant of my nation who

did not know how to read and write, an

alleged dacoit sentenced to ten years'

rigorous imprisonment, one of those

whom we look down upon in our

Pharisaical pride of class as Chhotalok.

Once more He spoke to me and said,

Uttarpara Speech

13

"Behold the people among whom I

have sent you to do a little of my work.

This is the nature of the nation I am

raising up and the reason why I raise

them."

When the case opened in the lower

court and we were brought before the

Magistrate I was followed by the same

insight. He said to me, "When you were

cast into jail, did not your heart fail and

did you not cry out to me, where is Thy

protection? Look now at the

Magistrate, look now at the

Prosecuting Counsel." I looked and it

was not the Magistrate whom I saw, it

was Vasudeva, it was Narayana who

was sitting there on the bench. I looked

at the Prosecuting Counsel and it was

not the Counsel for the prosecution

that I saw; it was Sri Krishna who sat

Uttarpara Speech

14

there, it was my Lover and Friend who

sat there and smiled. "Now do you

fear?" He said, "I am in all men and I

overrule their actions and their words.

My protection is still with you and you

shall not fear. This case which is

brought against you, leave it in my

hand. It is not for you. It was not for

the trial that I brought you here but for

something else. The case itself is only a

means for my work and nothing more."

Afterwards when the trial opened in

the Sessions Court, I began to write

many instructions for my Counsel as to

what was false in the evidence against

me and on what points the witnesses

might be cross-examined. Then

something happened which I had not

expected. The arrangements which had

been made for my defence were

suddenly changed and another Counsel

Uttarpara Speech

15

stood there to defend me. He came

unexpectedly, - a friend of mine, but I

did not know he was coming. You have

all heard the name of the man who put

away from him all other thoughts and

abandoned all his practice, who sat up

half the night day after day for months

and broke his health to save me, - Srijut

Chittaranjan Das. When I saw him, I

was satisfied, but I still thought it

necessary to write instructions. Then all

that was put away from me and I had

the message from within, "This is the

man who will save you from the snares

put around your feet. Put aside those

papers. It is not you who will instruct

him. I will instruct him." From that time

I did not of myself speak a word to my

Counsel about the case or give a single

instruction, and if ever I was asked a

question, I always found that my

Uttarpara Speech

16

answer did not help the case. I had left

it to him and he took it entirely into his

hands, with what result you know. I

knew all along what He meant for me,

for I heard it again and again, always I

listened to the voice within; "I am

guiding, therefore fear not. Turn to

your own work for which I have

brought you to jail and when you come

out, remember never to fear, never to

hesitate. Remember that it is I who am

doing this, not you nor any other.

Therefore whatever clouds may come,

whatever dangers and sufferings,

whatever difficulties, whatever

impossibilities, there is nothing

impossible, nothing difficult. I am in the

nation and its uprising and I am

Vasudeva, I am Narayana, and what I

will, shall be, not what others will.

Uttarpara Speech

17

What I choose to bring about, no

human power can stay."

Meanwhile He had brought me out of

solitude and placed me among those

who had been accused along with me.

You have spoken much today of my

self-sacrifice and devotion to my

country. I have heard that kind of

speech ever since I came out of jail, but

I hear it with embarrassment, with

something of pain. For I know my

weakness, I am a prey to my own faults

and backslidings. I was not blind to

them before and when they all rose up

against me in seclusion, I felt them

utterly. I knew them that I the man was

a man of weakness, a faulty and

imperfect instrument, strong only

when a higher strength entered into

me. Then I found myself among these

Uttarpara Speech

18

young men and in many of them I

discovered a mighty courage, a power

of self-effacement in comparison with

which I was simply nothing. I saw one

or two who were not only superior to

me in force and character, - very many

were that, - but in the promise of that

intellectual ability on which I prided

myself. He said to me, "This is the

young generation, the new and mighty

nation that is arising at my command.

They are greater than yourself. What

have you to fear? If you stood aside or

slept, the work would still be done. If

you were cast aside tomorrow, here

are the young men who will take up

your work and do it more mightily than

you have ever done. You have only got

some strength from me to speak a

word to this nation which will help to

Uttarpara Speech

19

raise it." This was the next thing He told

me.

Then a thing happened suddenly and in

a moment I was hurried away to the

seclusion of a solitary cell. What

happened to me during that period I

am not impelled to say, but only that

day after day, He showed me His

wonders and made me realise the utter

truth of the Hindu religion. I had many

doubts before. I was brought up in

England amongst foreign ideas and an

atmosphere entirely foreign. About

many things in Hinduism I had once

been inclined to believe that they were

imaginations, that there was much of

dream in it, much that was delusion

and Maya. But now day after day I

realised in the mind, I realised in the

heart, I realised in the body the truths

Uttarpara Speech

20

of the Hindu religion. They became

living experiences to me, and things

were opened to me which no material

science could explain. When I first

approached Him, it was not entirely in

the spirit of the Jnani. I came to Him

long ago in Baroda some years before

the Swadeshi began and I was drawn

into the public field.

When I approached God at that time, I

hardly had a living faith in Him. The

agnostic was in me, the atheist was in

me, the sceptic was in me and I was not

absolutely sure that there was a God at

all. I did not feel His presence. Yet

something drew me to the truth of the

Vedas, the truth of the Gita, the truth

of the Hindu religion. I felt there must

be a mighty truth somewhere in this

Yoga, a mighty truth in this religion

Uttarpara Speech

21

based on the Vedanta. So when I

turned to the Yoga and resolved to

practise it and find out if my idea was

right, I did it in this spirit and with this

prayer to Him, "If Thou art, then Thou

knowest my heart. Thou knowest that I

do not ask for Mukti, I do not ask for

anything which others ask for. I ask

only for strength to uplift this nation, I

ask only to be allowed to live and work

for this people whom I love and to

whom I pray that I may devote my life."

I strove long for the realisation of Yoga

and at last to some extent I had it, but

in what I most desired I was not

satisfied. Then in the seclusion of the

jail, of the solitary cell I asked for it

again. I said, "Give me Thy Adesh

(command). I do not know what work

to do or how to do it. Give me a

message." In the communion of Yoga

Uttarpara Speech

22

two messages came. The first message

said, "I have given you a work and it is

to help to uplift this nation. Before long

the time will come when you will have

to go out of jail; for it is not my will that

this time either you should be

convicted or that you should pass the

time, as others have to do, in suffering

for their country. I have called you to

work, and that is the Adesh for which

you have asked. I give you the Adesh to

go forth and do my work." The second

message came and it said, "Something

has been shown to you in this year of

seclusion, something about which you

had your doubts and it is the truth of

the Hindu religion. It is this religion that

I am raising up before the world, it is

this that I have perfected and

developed through the Rishis, saints

and Avatars, and now it is going forth

Uttarpara Speech

23

to do my work among the nations. I am

raising up this nation to send forth my

word. This is the Sanatana Dharma, this

is the eternal religion which you did not

really know before, but which I have

now revealed to you. The agnostic and

the sceptic in you have been answered,

for I have given you proofs within and

without you, physical and subjective,

which have satisfied you. When you go

forth, speak to your nation always this

word, that it is for the Sanatana

Dharma that they arise, it is for the

world and not for themselves that they

arise. I am giving them freedom for the

service of the world. When therefore it

is said that India shall rise, it is the

Sanatana Dharma that shall be great.

When it is said that India shall expand

and extend herself, it is the Sanatana

Dharma that shall expand and extend

Uttarpara Speech

24

itself over the world. It is for the

Dharma and by the Dharma that India

exists. To magnify the religion means to

magnify the country. I have shown you

that I am everywhere and in all men

and in all things, that I am in this

movement and I am not only working

in those who are striving for the

country but I am working also in those

who oppose them and stand in their

path. I am working in everybody and

whatever men may think or do, they

can do nothing but help in my purpose.

They also are doing my work, they are

not my enemies but my instruments. In

all your actions you are moving forward

without knowing which way you move.

You mean to do one thing and you do

another. You aim at a result and your

efforts subserve one that is different or

contrary. It is Shakti that has gone forth

Uttarpara Speech

25

and entered into the people. Since long

ago I have been preparing this uprising

and now the time has come and it is I

who will lead it to its fulfilment."

This then is what I have to say to you.

The name of your society is "Society for

the Protection of Religion". Well, the

protection of the religion, the

protection and upraising before the

world of the Hindu religion, that is the

work before us. But what is the Hindu

religion? What is this religion which we

call Sanatana, eternal? It is the Hindu

religion only because the Hindu nation

has kept it, because in this Peninsula it

grew up in the seclusion of the sea and

the Himalayas, because in this sacred

and ancient land it was given as a

charge to the Aryan race to preserve

through the ages. But it is not

Uttarpara Speech

26

circumscribed by the confines of a

single country, it does not belong

peculiarly and for ever to a bounded

part of the world. That which we call

the Hindu religion is really the eternal

religion, because it is the universal

religion which embraces all others. If a

religion is not universal, it cannot be

eternal. A narrow religion, a sectarian

religion, an exclusive religion can live

only for a limited time and a limited

purpose. This is the one religion that

can triumph over materialism by

including and anticipating the

discoveries of science and the

speculations of philosophy. It is the one

religion which impresses on mankind

the closeness of God to us and

embraces in its compass all the possible

means by which man can approach

God. It is the one religion which insists

Uttarpara Speech

27

every moment on the truth which all

religions acknowledge that He is in all

men and all things and that in Him we

move and have our being. It is the one

religion which enables us not only to

understand and believe this truth but

to realise it with every part of our

being. It is the one religion which

shows the world what the world is, that

it is the Lila of Vasudeva. It is the one

religion which shows us how we can

best play our part in that Lila, its

subtlest laws and its noblest rules. It is

the one religion which does not

separate life in any smallest detail from

religion, which knows what immortality

is and has utterly removed from us the

reality of death.

This is the word that has been put into

my mouth to speak to you today. What

Uttarpara Speech

28

I intended to speak has been put away

from me, and beyond what is given to

me I have nothing to say. It is only the

word that is put into me that I can

speak to you. That word is now

finished. I spoke once before with this

force in me and I said then that this

movement is not a political movement

and that nationalism is not politics but

a religion, a creed, a faith. I say it again

today, but I put it in another way. I say

no longer that nationalism is a creed, a

religion, a faith; I say that it is the

Sanatana Dharma which for us is

nationalism. This Hindu nation was

born with the Sanatana Dharma, with

it, it moves and with it, it grows. When

the Sanatana Dharma declines, then

the nation declines, and if the Sanatana

Dharma were capable of perishing,

Uttarpara Speech

29

with the Sanatana Dharma it would

perish.

The Sanatana Dharma that is

nationalism.

This is the message that I have to speak

to you.

[forestofemptiness]

Finding the truth isn't as much fun as arguing. Even if, in the end, no one changes their mind.

 

 

when asked about god buddha said.....

 

the existence of god can not be proven nor disproven.....

 

therefore to debate it is a waste of time....

 

however the existence of suffering can be proven quite easily.....

 

because everyone suffers.....

[bindo]

hahaha...nice try, but wrong again! You are clearly the one with the limited view of Sri Aurobindo.

 

The Uttarpara speech was made in 1909. You realize he lived for another 41 years, right? This was towards the beginning of his sadhana.

 

How about I contact you when you are in your 70's to see if you have changed your opinion on what you currently believe. Does that sound fair to you?

 

I already mentioned that there was a time in his life when he identified himself as a Hindu, but even then it was more a cultural identification than a religious one.

 

You mentioned his Hindu roots....At age five Aurobindo was sent to an Irish convent school and two years later was sent to England because his father didn't want him to know anything about Indian traditions and language.

 

And while in England, at age seven, his caretakers were instructed to not allow Aurobindo and his brothers to " be allowed to make the acquaintance of any Indian or undergo any Indian influence". He was 20 before he returned to India and learned Bengali.

 

Hindu roots? I think not.

 

Keep trying, and eventually you'll do more than scratch the surface about this great man and his work.

Edited January 9, 2010 by bindo

[dwai]

hahaha...nice try, but wrong again! You are clearly the one with the limited view of Sri Aurobindo.

 

The Uttarpara speech was made in 1909. You realize he lived for another 41 years, right? This was towards the beginning of his sadhana.

 

How about I contact you when you are in your 70's to see if you have changed your opinion on what you currently believe. Does that sound fair to you?

 

I already mentioned that there was a time in his life when he identified himself as a Hindu, but even then it was more a cultural identification than a religious one.

 

You mentioned his Hindu roots....At age five Aurobindo was sent to an Irish convent school and two years later was sent to England because his father didn't want him to know anything about Indian traditions and language.

 

And while in England, at age seven, his caretakers were instructed to not allow Aurobindo and his brothers to " be allowed to make the acquaintance of any Indian or undergo any Indian influence". He was 20 before he returned to India and learned Bengali.

 

Hindu roots? I think not.

 

Keep trying, and eventually you'll do more than scratch the surface about this great man and his work.

 

what you are parroting is an oft repeated party-line used by people who try and appropriate important discoveries and personalities from India. Nothing surprising...

[Non]

i DUNNO..

 

I dont know about buddhism but I thought one of it's main teachings is to dissociate from the illusory reality. To stop identification with it, and the ego, to at least gain some objectivity over the suffering, and 'detatchment'.

 

Does it stop there? I dont know. Perhaps when one has maximally detatched one reaches Nirvana. That could simply mean death, but the Ultimate death whereby there is no more karma being made, not even reincarnation. It is just, "emptiness".

[erdweir]

This author has a few misconceptions about Buddhism I think. Buddhism is not about God revealed Dogma, for instance, or world negating Nihilism. World transcending, sure. Buddha and Lao Tzu were not so much ahead o their time as unbounded by it. I think Wilkinson is suffering from trying to stuff Eastern concepts into western modfels. He is repeating the old misconceptions of Buddhism articulated by Hegel, Nietzsche, and others.

 

Also, if you want to talk about Dogma and Belief, what about The Western Scientific worldview? Of course Buddhism and Christianity, when narrowly and dogmatically debased, can be moribund relics of corrupted traditions, but Empirical Science and Skepticism have their high and low forms as well, which can be just as life negating as misapprehended spirituality. I think Wilkinson actually suffers from applying his critique too narrowly and in immoderately broad categories.

 

If you want to salvage something from the article, maybe one could walk away with it's central point, that it is not good to place old teachings above the present, and this is ok with me.

[Sunya]

Not sure what exactly you meant here, but it's said that samsara doesn't have a begining but it does have an end.

 

well, there is no time in Buddhism.. that's what I meant. there's no beginning or end. Norbu Rinpoche refers to samsara as infinite.. but I have heard the argument that samsara will end. This doesn't make sense to me though because what then will all the Buddhas do since their activity is compassion, what then if there are no longer suffering beings? dunno. I think the argument that samsara will end depends on a finite number of beings, but if there are infinite beings then samsara will not end.