Qi is NOT Energy

[Starjumper]

Care to expand on your "high power chi kung"?

 

I did attend a class with someone who did use feeling with beginners but that was more so to get them to relax than anything else (feel your pulse kinda thing). I've been around many "masters" and on a scale, his was one of the lowest in terms of feeling his energy. Not to say yours is the same, just saying.

 

I agree with you if SB is doing MCO practices as a beginning practice.

In my chi kung people frequently remark on the high amounts of chi they feel radiating from me when I do chi kung with them, even to the point of some people in a big audience being amazed when I did a demo. My chi kung is high power because I learned it from one of the most powerful chi kung masters in the world, and it is ALL about cultivating highest levels of chi power. It is so rare, of course, I think it is safe to assume that no one here has experienced such things. The combination of a very powerful master in addition to him teaching YOU how to get THERE instead of just a few weenie exercises.

 

Concerning doing the MCO, it shouldn't be done EVER. If someone does a good chi kung correctly it will start and go all by itself with no attention from the practitioner.

 

The more a person tries to control the MCO the more they limit themselves (assuming they are doing it 'correctly' - it is never correct), and you can take that to the bank, to the extent that someone who is not in good condition could hurt themselves, and I've seen some of the damaged ones. I think they were permanently damaged.

 

Hi SereneBlue, during Ya Mu's workshop, we did these forms. I enjoyed them. Seems like a good way to gather chi from the universe. There is form that I especially like, where you pull in your "perfect DNA."

In order to be good at pulling in outside energy one must first develop good hand power AND good intent (which actually isn't so easy). I'm highly skeptical of such of such things as pulling in perfect DNA. Of more significance than gathering energy are the types of movements in which you generate energy.

 

I will reiterate this: the more you control your MCO the more you limit yourself.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Birch]

"Concerning doing the MCO, it shouldn't be done EVER."

 

- Could you please say why?

 

- Also more information on "damage"?

 

Thank you!

[Baguakid]

In my chi kung people frequently remark on the high amounts of chi they feel radiating from me when I do chi kung with them, even to the point of some people in a big audience being amazed when I did a demo. My chi kung is high power because I learned it from one of the most powerful chi kung masters in the world, and it is ALL about cultivating highest levels of chi power. It is so rare, of course, I think it is safe to assume that no one here has experienced such things. The combination of a very powerful master in addition to him teaching YOU how to get THERE instead of just a few weenie exercises.

 

Concerning doing the MCO, it shouldn't be done EVER. If someone does a good chi kung correctly it will start and go all by itself with no attention from the practitioner.

 

The more a person tries to control the MCO the more they limit themselves (assuming they are doing it 'correctly' - it is never correct), and you can take that to the bank, to the extent that someone who is not in good condition could hurt themselves, and I've seen some of the damaged ones. I think they were permanently damaged.

 

 

In order to be good at pulling in outside energy one must first develop good hand power AND good intent (which actually isn't so easy). I'm highly skeptical of such of such things as pulling in perfect DNA. Of more significance than gathering energy are the types of movements in which you generate energy.

 

I will reiterate this: the more you control your MCO the more you limit yourself.

 

1st. Your comments regarding MCO (self circulating) are inline with what I was taught as well. Just fill with qi and let it circulate naturally.

 

2nd. Do you want to reveal your Chi Kung style? Is it open to other people other than yourself? What is your purpose for telling us about it? What do you hope to gain here?

 

Thanks,

Edited July 12, 2010 by Baguakid

[Aetherous]

Qigong doesn't include MCO. Neigong does. Lots of people fear what they don't understand. There are a thousand incorrect ways to do any common thing.

[JustARandomPanda]

Of more significance than gathering energy are the types of movements in which you generate energy.

 

What movements generate chi?

[JustARandomPanda]

I read some of Winpro's old posts before he asked for deletion of his account and he said spiraling at the waist is a good way to raise one's chi. Curiously, I read something recently about Kriya Yoga that spiraling chi up the central channel will do more to power up one's energy than years of dedicated work in other systems. It immediately reminded me of Winpro's posts about physically spiraling at the waist. I wondered if that is an outer Chi Kung way of getting at least some chi spiraling up the center inside.

 

BTW - what is the Chi Kung term for the central channel? I only know it by it's Yoga term Sushumna.

[gendao]

BTW - what is the Chi Kung term for the central channel? I only know it by it's Yoga term Sushumna.

The chong mai is referred to as the sea of blood, sea of arteries and veins, sea of 12 primary channels, sea of yuan qi, primordial channel, ancestral channel, blueprint of life and thorough way channel.

The Ling Shu describes Chong mai as the vessel carrying Yuan Qi (the source Qi) along with Zhen Qi to the various organs.

You can see why opening the chong mai has such powerful effects. By doing so, you access your primal, ancestral yuan qi (as opposed to just "ordinary" postnatal qi in your main 12 meridians).

[Starjumper]

1st. Your comments regarding MCO (self circulating) are inline with what I was taught as well. Just fill with qi and let it circulate naturally.

 

2nd. Do you want to reveal your Chi Kung style?

I revealed my chi kung style just two days ago in another thread, you don’t want me to wear it out do you? =)

 

Is it open to other people other than yourself?

Yes it is open to others, I have room for another student, and if I decide teach an additional night I have room for an additional two; and yet it is so hard to find students with the right stuff.

 

What is your purpose for telling us about it?

Well you said that you tried a chi kung system based on feeling and that it was wimpy and so I presented my system to show you that that isn’t always the case and that I speak from experience. It isn't exactly based on feeling, but makes good use of it, plus the feeling generally is goood.

 

What do you hope to gain here?

 

Thanks,

I don’t know, I just like to add my two cents worth here and there, I do it mainly for my own entertainment but I hope to help out a little bit too. Unfortunately I can’t give away much in the way of hard and fast practice information in a place like this.

 

"Concerning doing the MCO, it shouldn't be done EVER."

 

- Could you please say why?

 

- Also more information on "damage"?

 

Thank you!

Well OK, that’s a tall order. It takes a lot of writing and I’m sometimes reluctant to put my heart into something like this in a place like this because some inexperienced people like Scotty et al.will try to negate it.

 

My chi kung teacher was strongly against such things as the MCO or using intent to send energy on any route in your body, but the MCO is the biggest problem in regards to this due to past misleading information.

 

What my teacher said about it is that doing the MCO is like teaching a dog to stay, and then when you want it to come to your aid it won’t because it’s staying. Having your energy primarily confined to one meridian means it will not automaticall go where it needs to for self healing and it is particularly limiting for use in martial arts applications.

 

As Baguakid put it: “Your comments regarding MCO (self circulating) are inline with what I was taught as well. Just fill with qi and let it circulate naturally.”

 

That’s right, just let it circulate naturally. To arbitrarily force the MCO with your mind for no particular reason other than someone told you is not necessarily what you might need for self healing or progress in a spiritual context either. In fact not only do you not need it, it takes away from what you do need.

 

If you do good chi kung the MCO goes BY ITSELF when it needs to but it isn’t confined to it.

 

To force the MCO is considered a hard style by those in the know, and hard styles are considered to go against Taoist philosophy. Of course some will say that Taoists do it and that is true. Just because some obscure sect aggrandizes it doesn't mean it's mainstream or good, but still it goes against the principles of the philosophy and ideal healing. Unfortunately it was made popular in the West by someone who made a lot of money by writing lots of books with pretty colored pictures and little information. Forcing it is also fake in a way. If you can get it to go naturally then forcing it seems arbitrary and cheap, doesn’t it? I suppose it’s more of a Buddhist way than Taoist since traditionally the Buddhists are not so concerned with body and they generally prefer more hard styles in everything, and their method then infected the more pure Taoist systems.

 

I had someone visit me once from the Midwest. This was a young lady who had hurt herself with the MCO. We did my normal moving chi kung and everything was fine, then sat down to meditate. After less than a minute of sitting she made a loud sound that sounded like “HUT” and almost did a forward flip off her chair and onto the floor. I stopped the practice, I told her that the only chance she had was to do a good moving chi kung, like say tai chi, and not do the MCO, but she was the kind that would not exercise and so is lost.

 

Once about a year ago I did the MCO in spite of my teacher having told me not to. I had cultivated the ability to create a lot of heat in my belly so I sent this in the circuit quite slowly around. It wasn’t just like a little spot of energy, it was like a big waterfall of strong heat flowing through the area of the spot I was at. I went very slowly in order to enjoy the intense heat bath and to not miss any spot, which is a common mistake that people make (skipping parts without knowing it) It took about a whole hour to do one circle.

 

After that I noticed a big drop in my energy and feeling of wellbeing. I no longer could make the heat so easily and I felt remarkably more tired and weaker. That lasted for at least three months and a year later I can’t say I’m fully recovered from doing the MCO just once. of course I still have more energy in the tip of my little finger than most people have in their whole body but I made a stupid mistake, I ignored my teacher, and I learned something. Of course someone who hasn't experienced the difference and who has been doing this visualization all along will not be able to tell a difference and think could think they are fine.

 

If someone is in good health and gets plenty of exercise they may not hurt themselves badly with the MCO, but if they are weak or sickly or don't exercise then watch out! In any case it appears it is a waste of time, at best, for those that are in good health - and very few people are in good health in our society due to toxins, etc.

 

This is what I learned: all these people around here who are all gaga about abstaining from sex and then doing the MCO are just jacking off. They are doing a type of energy masturbation when the do the MCO and have their little thrills. The energy is wasted anyway, so i suggest they just masturbate physically, it’s more of a sure thing and they’re less likely to hurt themselves.

 

Edit = a word was left out & speeling

Edited July 15, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

Qigong doesn't include MCO. Neigong does. Lots of people fear what they don't understand.

This is the kind of thing that you see when someone learns a bullshit 'system' from a flake. He really has no idea what nei kung is because he’s been misled for money; and he discredits my experience, saying my opinion is due to fear. It's true if you can say fear comes from experience, but there is no fear, because I'm not stupid enough to do it again.

 

Hi Starjumper7, I bet Ya Mu's system would agree with you, as he says some similar things. Especially about releasing of the energy gates and MCO starting of their own volition. Since attending his workshop at the end of May, I have already had significant physical blockages released and expect to have some more interesting developments every week. Michael [Ya Mu] is a sincere, generous and passionate teacher and healer. I witnessed his skills and the skills and abilities of his high level students/healers. They're no joke.

I’m a bit confused here, I like Michael and know he is advanced and has at least fairly good power yet once before I mentioned my opinion of MCO and I thought he said he taught it. I hope he doesn’t but ...

 

What movements generate chi?

I’m sorry, but I can’t share that here.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Aetherous]

It takes a lot of writing and I’m sometimes reluctant to put my heart into something like this in a place like this because some inexperienced people like Scotty et al.will try to negate it.

 

I apologize for making you feel bad, SJ. But a lot of what you write here is false information.

 

The MCO is fine to practice if you know what you're doing. Your description of when you tried it shows that you didn't have the right instruction.

 

It's totally fine to skip over closed areas of the body. It's a mistake to think you should open them immediately.

 

Done correctly, you're not forcing your energy (or especially your heat!) around. You're using the awareness to clear the 2 channels.

 

This is the kind of thing that you see when someone learns a bullshit 'system' from a flake. He really has no idea what nei kung is because he’s been misled for money; and he discredits my experience, saying my opinion is due to fear. It's true if you can say fear comes from experience, but there is no fear, because I'm not stupid enough to do it again.

 

Well alright. Just keep this in mind as you practice your qigong...

 

"Spiritual growth is emotional growth, being spiritually advanced is being emotionally mature."

-quoted from your own website

Edited July 13, 2010 by Scotty

[Starjumper]

Thanks, I appreciate the apology, but you didn't make me feel bad.

 

I did the MCO according to the way Mantak Chia instructs it, are you saying that's wrong? I guess I didn't spell it out but I implied it, but my two channels already were open, and for a long time, many years, more than a decade, and a lot. Also I didn't try to make it hot and wide, the heat was there. I've got heat because I've got lotsa chi.

 

I'm certainly not an expert on the MCO, but even for those who think the MCO is acceptable, they say don't miss spots, that's just common sense.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Aetherous]

I'm certainly not an expert on the MCO, but even for those who think the MCO is acceptable, they say don't miss spots, that's just common sense.

 

Really? No wonder so many people are having problems with it, then.

[C T]

I've got heat because I've got lotsa chi.

 

Too much i see... circulating in the wrong place.

 

Seeing how you react to things people say, and the need to stick ugly labels on people, and calling names, your lack of manners, and putting down the disabled (alluding to the Special Olympics as being for idiots), its pretty obvious you have the heat retained in the upper chakras, when the real masters all have theirs simmering ever so steadily at their lower abdominal areas. Even your avatar points this obvious state out clearly... what with the dragon over the yinyang symbol...

 

(Awaiting your spray of insults here)

 

God bless whoever takes you as a teacher.

[Starjumper]

It looks like you just did a bunch of insulting, and so goes the mirror.

 

... and no, you got it wrong again, I guess you missed the earlier explanation?

 

I have plenty of heat in my belly, and as I said that's where it started.

 

(Edit - my belly is normally the only place I feel heat, not in the upper areas, except for if I aim my hands at different areas of my body, then I can feel heat in those spots too)

 

... and this is why it's difficult to present useful information on this forum, those with thin skin attack the messenger and ignore the message.

 

I hope the message did help some people.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Starjumper7

[minkus]

Dont get annoyed with starjumper7, he is rude, unmannerd and highly dellusional. I would take whatever he says and especially whatever he says about himself with a large rock of salt.

 

He often comes by here (and other qigong related forums) just to make a fuzz and stir things up, he brags about this on he's own forum. This is going on for a few years now. Yes he is an egotripper.

 

When things get messy he takes a hike .. half a year later to return and start all over.

 

Starjumper7 has many alt-accounts on this forum .. to support he's own wacked claims and misplaced (often rude and negative) views on (all) other practices.

 

You dont have to believe me, i dont like to say this either, its not good for cultivating compassion. But it is how it is.

 

And Starjumper7, act normal or just leave. Thanx, i hope you get the message.

[Baguakid]

[Birch]

"The MCO is fine to practice if you know what you're doing."

 

 

 

- My most recent experience with MCO is that doing it over the top of an existing spinal injury is not good OR it could be argued that is IS good because it put me more "on" to the issue so I can resolve it. Anyway ;-) IME the point at which I start to "get" what I'm doing and understand the mechanics comes in a timely fashion AND I kind of wish I'd worked it out before. But I learn as I go I guess.

 

I reckon because so many teachers themselves disagree on what is the "best" in general when IMO they in theory should (and likely this is the case with a one-on-one teacher)be able to determine what is "best" for a particular person at a particular moment in time. If you're a personal trainer, you don't start your clients out on the hardest crunches, right?

 

"It's totally fine to skip over closed areas of the body. It's a mistake to think you should open them immediately."

 

- well, it would be interesting to me to explain why this would be a "mistake" - I tend to agree but I'd like your take

 

"Done correctly, you're not forcing your energy (or especially your heat!) around. You're using the awareness to clear the 2 channels."

 

- yes, this is as far as I can tell the "correct" approach but there will always be people who want to feel like more is going on (and why not faster ) and so giving them a couple of sensations to help them keep "the faith" might sometimes be in order. Hopefully after they've burnt something they will slow down, but in some folks (like the gym bunny) burning might be seen to be a "good" thing (and indeed I am/have been guilty of it myself...)

[DarthBane]

Ya Mu sounds like he is far ahead of his time. Sounds like the future of energy work.

[Starjumper]

I recall there being a couple of people who cam on this forum with health/energy problems and said they had been doing the MCO for awhile, and I'm not here much, thank god, and so there must have been some others.

 

To force the MCO (with your mind) is considered a hard style ... it goes against the principles of the philosophy ...

This doesn't really say what I had in mind there. It's true that being a hard style it goes against the philosophy of the way, but it's more important than just an interesting philosophical idea, for as it is said in the TTC, that which goes against the Way does not last long. This not lasting long applies in several ways to how doing the MCO causes, if not health problems, at least health limitations and I'll give one example.

 

When I did it I started at my belly and I got a lot of heat going before I started making the circuit. the cool thing was that it wasn't just a spot but a rather orb of heat that was moving. When it went up my back it felt like a big waterfall of heat covering almost half my back, this waterfall flow centered on the level I was progressing through and covered almost half my back. It wasn't a burning heat, it was a really nice heat, it felt so good it just kindles your heart. That's one reason i took an hour to make the circuit, because it felt so niiiice

 

After I finished I though like wow man, this MCO is cool shit! In the back of my head though I though that after having that much fun I might have to pay the piper in some way, and sho nuff, it happened, The drop in energy that I experienced later was most noticeable and profound right afterward so I really noticed it. That night I was kind of tired but didn't really pay too much attention to it, the next day was when I realized I had really socked it to the ol' energy supply. Of course, having never done it before and having practiced the way of power for twenty years, I had a lot of chi built up so it was much more noticeable. People who do the MCO all the time, or who started with it wouldn't have a chance to build up a lot before running it down so it might not make much difference, but it will prevent achieving power I think.

 

Therefore I assume that those that report feeling a lot of energy from doing the MCO are actually doing so mainly because they are sensitive rather than actually having a lot of energy, plus for those who are celibate, they're consuming their sexual energy.

 

So that's one way that going against the Way by doing the MCO is detrimental to your health and longevity. As the sages say: "That which goes against the Way doesn't last long."

Edited July 15, 2010 by Starjumper7

[宁]

 

So that's one way that going against the Way by doing the MCO is detrimental to your health and longevity. As the sages say: "That which goes against the Way doesn't last long."

 

I respectfully disagree. And so does reality.

Instead of denying this, why not thinking it over. Maybe you missed something.

MCO helped, helps and will continue to help many, solving health, emotional and in some cases even spiritual issues.

It's just a tool. In the right hands, it can only do good.

[Starjumper]

I respectfully disagree. And so does reality.

Instead of denying this, why not thinking it over. Maybe you missed something.

MCO helped, helps and will continue to help many, solving health, emotional and in some cases even spiritual issues.

It's just a tool. In the right hands, it can only do good.

It's true some few people could benefit from doing the MCO some few times, for some few situations; but that doesn't mean it's good for most people, and it isn't.

 

Almost any exercise will do something for someone in some small way, be it "good" or 'bad' but those on the path of power require efficiency and can't afford to waste time with wimpy practices.

 

Some day I should make and exercise DVD and title it "1001 Ways to do the MCO" There really are hundreds of ways, they are all movement practices and they are all more powerful than doing it while sitting around with your finger in your nose visualizing stuff ... and they are also safe. Perfectly 100% safe.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Baguakid]

It's true some few people could benefit from doing the MCO some few times, for some few situations; but that doesn't mean it's good for most people, and it isn't.

 

Almost any exercise will do something for someone in some small way, be it "good" or 'bad' but those on the path of power require efficiency and can't afford to waste time with wimpy practices.

 

Some day I should make and exercise DVD and title it "1001 Ways to do the MCO" There really are hundreds of ways, they are all movement practices and they are all more powerful than doing it while sitting around with your finger in your nose visualizing stuff ... and they are also safe. Perfectly 100% safe.

 

 

As I've heard say in China.. Money talky, bullshitty walky.

[宁]

It's true some few people could benefit from doing the MCO some few times, for some few situations; but that doesn't mean it's good for most people, and it isn't.

 

Sorry, I think this is a lie. You know this isn't so.

[Starjumper]

As I've heard say in China.. Money talky, bullshitty walky.

 

Sooo ... what are you really saying here?

 

What I would like, before putting any DVDs out there for the public is to have a good opening, and what I have in mind will require some video editing with some energy effects added (like showing the aura/chi field) combined with movement, just a few seconds of it. If anyone here can help with this, or has any ideas, let me know.

[Starjumper]

Sorry, I think this is a lie. You know this isn't so.

 

Really? What a curious statement. I shared what I think and what my teacher thinks but keep in mind it's from the perspective of cultivating chi power, so if you want to do the MCO anyway then go for it, and good luck.