Flying Phoenix Chi Kung

[Earl Grey]

45 minutes ago, Antares said:

A completely peaceful and restful heart experiences no emergence of karmic desires such as lust, greed, hate, pride, and fear. This is also why practicing and perfecting De is enough and absolutely mandatory for complete enlightenment as proven by Confucius and other sages throughout the world who encouraged moral perfection.

 

When the Heart-mind remains calm because of correct view or meditation, it experiences no outflows or attachments to the Desire Realm (i.e. manifesting karmic desires), hence it simply cannot lose any vitality. Loss of vitality is always and exclusively because of desiring that springs from an unsilent heart, and the Daoist tradition says this loss happens through the bodily orifices to satisfy various desires.

As such, the argument of Antares and Daode school can be an insidious half-truth: it lacks nuance. Lucid dreaming can be very beneficial if you are calm and ethical with it, and then it will work for karmic purification as any other conscious activity in "waking" life. Flying Phoenix should work extremely well towards this end because its energy is inherently calming and rejects unethical behavior.

 

There are two main approaches in TT - cultivation of Xing at fist and then Ming, or Ming following by Xing. But purification of Mind-heart (Xin) is very necessary in both cases. I can agree that losses  happen due to the our Mind-heart impurities. But it does not mean that when someone cleanses Heart-mind, this leakage stops happening. I would say that our desires, lust, greed, thoughts... only speed up this loss of vitality. That is why there are  special methods in TT (Neidan) that lead to the stopping of leakages. And this is the first basement in Alchemy. Ancient taoist schools had their own methodology how to do it. And there is only one way to stop these leakages - to replenish Yuan Jing which in it turn purifies the Heart Mind and stops outflow of vital energy through bodily orifices. In order to replenish this Yuan Jing a practitioner sholud avoid lucid dreaming otherwise it speeds up the outflow of this essence. As simple as that. In TT methods of lucid dreaming are not used at all and there is not even such a term in Chinese. As for INSIDIOUS HALF TRUTH "of Antares and DaoDe school" there is not my own opinion on that issue and all these statements are based on taoist scriptures. As for this BUCK will stop when Terry Dunn answers in this thread I personally will highly appreciate his answer but it would be nice and ethically right if Sifu Terry cites taoist scriptures in regard to this issue. I can only remind that Sifu Terry said a few times that all Bai Fu Pai methods are PURELY TAOIST ARTS. If there are such a method in taoism then it should be written down in taoist scriptures. Another issue is that FPQ has different origin (i.e. NOT taoist) and had a huge influence of Buddhism (Tibetan) then it should be regarded as buddhist method of Dharma. What I would like to say in general is that normally any authentic methodology of alchemical transformation is quite extensive and has different stages. I would highly appriciate if any of the FPQ practiotioners can give a broad reply on how one stops leakages in FPQ so that one can stop leakages and replenish the Ming (Yuan Jing and Qi).      

 

 

Antares, I assure you no disrespect came my way when replying to you, but I simply relayed what the other student wanted to convey and will also see what comes from Sifu Terry. 

 

The anonymous student will give his/her own reply (as may any others who prefer anonymity through me, Sifu Terry's thread assistant) and I will relay it here for you all. 

 

In the event of any conflict, I will see to it that respect is maintained. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Antares]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

In the event of any conflict, I will see to it that respect is maintained.

 

Dear Earl Grey! (Nice nickname, just wonder is it cause you like this tea?   I like Puerh). 

 

By no any means I wish it is regarded as any sort of arguing or disrespect. I personally respect any genuine practitioner and have no intention to criticize anyone on this thread. I had previous background in FPQ practice and I enjoyed it at that time. Recently I felt like I am missing something in my practice and I do not know why I recalled FPQ!!! I began reading this thread again and I really enjoyed just reading it. I like warm atmosphere of this thread. One night I did 1st standing med Monk Gazing the Moon and then I did first warm up exercise on vol. 2. SoI did only 2 meds! That night I had a very vivid dream and it still continues to be very vivid and next day I felt that even at day time my perception was more vivid. So I can feel how powerful FPQ . But I am not sure whether I need to experience these vivid dreams at all. That' where my query comes from!     

[Earl Grey]

Just now, Antares said:

 

Dear Earl Grey! (Nice nickname, just wonder is it cause you like this tea?   I like Puerh). 

 

By no any means I wish it is regarded as any sort of arguing or disrespect. I personally respect any genuine practitioner and have no intention to criticize anyone on this thread. I had previous background in FPQ practice and I enjoyed it at that time. Recently I felt like I am missing something in my practice and I do not know why I recalled FPQ!!! I began reading this thread again and I really enjoyed just reading it. I like warm atmosphere of this thread. One night I did 1st standing med Monk Gazing the Moon and then I did first warm up exercise on vol. 2. SoI did only 2 meds! That night I had a very vivid dream and it still continues to be very vivid and next day I felt that even at day time my perception was more vivid. So I can feel how powerful FPQ . But I am not sure whether I need to experience these vivid dreams at all. That' where my query comes from!     

 

Hi Antares,

 

Yes, I am a fan of Earl Grey and its many variants. There is a brand from Singapore, TWG, which is called "Earl Grey Gentleman" and is one of my favorites alongside French Earl Grey. From what I understand, there is also an Earl Grey Puerh tea from TWG too and popular. 

 

FPQ is fantastic and is my go-to for health. As students come and go on the site, this thread remains an oasis that is consistently monitored by Sifu Terry and me and other students still watch but don't post as much. Due to Sifu Terry's work, he isn't able to reply as much or as often as he would like either, so I've stepped in to help keep momentum here. 

 

In earlier posts, I mentioned how FPQ already enters my existing dreamwork to the point that I was already doing FPQ meditations while dreaming. Even recently, I have had dreams of doing FPQ meditations in dreams.

 

Flying Phoenix energy as often repeated here is unique, so it stays with you and is intelligent. There was a time I stopped for several months and came back. There are times I stop for a few days and feel a difference. The DVD series alone is great, but even if you never learn a new form after the initial volumes 1-5 and 7, a lesson or two with Sifu Terry to perfect your form and get some secrets about the forms really makes a difference. My Moonbeam and long form and flash meditations are a lot more refined from his adjustments.

 

To talk a little more about my own dream practice in relation to Flying Phoenix, we carry a lot of tension in our bodies and it shows when the heartbeat is rapidly pumping in our chests while waiting to lie down and relax. All the anxiety, stress, anger, and doubts pile up in the mind and in the physical body. This already made my earlier years of dream practice harder because I tried too hard to do dream practice. If I do Monk Holding Pearl while lying down, the body relaxes much more easily...but remember to do your closing breaths before going to sleep. 

 

I generally don't mix Shuigong with Flying Phoenix as the former is done at night and Flying Phoenix is my day practice, but the two seem to complement one another for me. For anyone who needs to check, as always, see Eric Isen to understand the impact of Qigong on you and what styles complement one another if you do more than just the Doo Wai systems here. 

 

One reason that vivid dreams from Flying Phoenix also is due to the fact that it is a very pure energy. I can share stories of how the long form MSW that Sifu Terry taught me invited a Buddhist being to come bless me and give what Eric Isen jokes as being a "psychic brain surgery" that opened up some channels of awareness and led to downloads. As recent as earlier this month, I dreamt I was doing the form again and saw my third eye in the mirror as a blue jewel in my forehead. 

[tao stillness]

Yes, psychic brain surgery is actually not a joke but is being done to rewire the brain to support Awakening, enlightenment, etc. and is a safe Divine energy at work. People in the formerly called Oneness Blessing movement of the avatar Sri Amma Bhagavan, now called the Golden Age movement, are experiencing very rapid true enlightenment that people have previously only read about but have almost never experienced. It is now happening on a large scale thanks to the new energy of the Golden Age movement methods led by the avatar for this age. A few years back when doing one of the advanced Doo Wai qigong forms Eric also saw a certain energy entirely filling up my body and I was being blessed by it with the result that it was repairing my brain. I have recently gone back to doing this particular meditation. So Earl Grey is indeed blessed to have this FP energy doing this special task for his nervous system. But I am told this is how it works, unbelievable as it does sound. 

[StillWater]

Thank you Sifu, I'm late but wanted to acknowledge and appreciate your answer.

 

Stillwater.

[Antares]

18 hours ago, tao stillness said:

So Earl Grey is indeed blessed to have this FP energy doing this special task for his nervous system. But I am told this is how it works, unbelievable as it does sound. 

 

Dear Stive, there are some nuances in regard to the energy that one works with. There are Xiantian and Houtian energies and we have to consider both of them and what is happening on both levels while working with our internal Qi. Even if FP healing Qi has its own properties anyway it can be either postheaven or pre-heaven Qi. But most important is what is happening on the level of pre-heaven Qi. As far as I know only high level masters are capable of seeing this type of Qi. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Antares

[StillWater]

Antares, could you elaborate on what you mean by pre-heaven and post heaven energies?   For that matter, could anyone chime in and pick apart what is meant when Sifu says FP meditations are "sublime?"   I am assuming this isn't the standard definition (at least in part) of "awesome."   It seems to be more in line with alchemical elevation-of-spirit tendencies.

 

Thanks,

 

SW

[Earl Grey]

26 minutes ago, StillWater said:

Antares, could you elaborate on what you mean by pre-heaven and post heaven energies?   For that matter, could anyone chime in and pick apart what is meant when Sifu says FP meditations are "sublime?"   I am assuming this isn't the standard definition (at least in part) of "awesome."   It seems to be more in line with alchemical elevation-of-spirit tendencies.

 

Thanks,

 

SW

 

Antares is coming from a different lineage, so please bear in mind that it may or may not necessarily align with the energetic map and compass used for Flying Phoenix. There may be parallels or even overlap, but Doo Wai family arts are intriguing and hard to fathom even in the context of more common consenus among systems. When Sifu Terry explains, it’s best to understand within the context of Doo Wai system alone rather than the other traditions.

 

I have several other systems I practice and had a few others before meeting Sifu Terry. In my understanding of sublime from working with him, it can refer to the unique spirit of wonder and expansion that permeates your being, especially the first time you do Moonbeam, and then it becomes bliss when you do long form. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Astral_butterfly]

On 29/03/2019 at 6:46 PM, Earl Grey said:

 

I wrote about this in my own ppj about mapping out familiar locations in the dreaming and my own personal dreaming map. 

 

I can only attest that the expansion of the mind and soul are infinite compared to the body. The soul work and the mind expansion occur with the right practices. It is not unlikely that Flying Phoenix plays a role in this, but how it works is highly individualistic without proper guidance.

 

More reasons to seek one-on-one training with Sifu Terry.

 

I went to read the journal a bit, and it is interesting how we both had a similar thing going on.

These days, I find myself either remembering these places when I am awake, or getting new dreams in the same places, and I suspect, with some of the same people, and an old substance that keeps coming back in dreams - cannabis - which I have not consumed in over ten years.

 

The urban environment is so very strong in my dreams, I realise, I have quite a bit in common with you when it comes to that feel. Mine that are not strictly from my dreams mostly take me back to Johannesburg, its suburbs and the townships, as I know that place like the back of my hand. In fact just last night I was walking across mine dumps in Soweto, after being offered and refusing a packet of Dunhills made with weed (I don't smoke cigarettes either). It brought back the memory of being called "Indoda" (the man in Zulu language) because as a woman and being light-skinned, I still had no fear in frequenting the places reputed as the most dangerous, without escort. 

 

Like you also, I have some dark and strange dreams, which I take as a sort of a detox due to the FPCK, as I am not prone to nightmares generally. Maybe the bad dreams have a link with the barren, dry and bland urban energy of one of the toughest places on Earth that I spent so much time in. I don't know why I loved that place so much  maybe because it made me feel strong and invincible.

 

It has only been almost two months of chi kung though.

[zen-bear]

On 3/30/2019 at 2:58 AM, Antares said:

Hello everyone. Let me chime in. As far as I know according to the authentic Taoist Tradition (TT) a practitioner should avoid any dreaming on the advanced level of practice. The reason for that is very simple - dreaming, especially vivid lucid dreaming, depletes one's jing and pactitioner must preserve it for converting it into Shen. But for that there must be a special alchemical method. 

 

In the beginnig of this thread I read that Feng Tao Te invented this system while sitting in deep meditation for 9 years. He seemed to do that on the last stage of the alchemical practice (converting  Shen into Emptiness).  It might mean that  he reached the very high level of the alchemical mastery and gained Immortality. By the way did anyone have channeling to Feng Tao Te? 

To Antares:

 

I have been extremely busy this spring preparing for a full schedule of teaching workshops on both coasts and several locales in the mountain states compounded by fulfilling numerous commitments starting last November that I made to the college that I attended back in the 70's.  Thus  it has taken me so may days to get back to this thread since my last responses to postings and questions.

  

Antares, I will start by saying that while you are entitled to your own belief that  "a practitioner should avoid any dreaming on the advanced level of practice",  your statement that it is taught or upheld universally by a singular or monolithic "Taoist Tradition" is absolute wrong, fallacious and misleading, and counterproductive in that it only sews confusion in a beginner of Qigong of any tradition--whereas an advanced practitioner would have had enough experiential truth to know that the matter is absolutely moot and thus know to take issue with you.

 

[As far as I know according to the authentic Taoist Tradition (TT) a practitioner should avoid any dreaming on the advanced level of practice.]

 

First of all, your statement is nonsensical and transparently erroneous because there is no such one Taoist Tradition or "the" Taoist Tradition'.  What is the "authentic Taoist Tradition (TT)" that you speak of?   Please name the sect, its origins and its history and where it is described in the classic or modern Taoist literature.  And please disclose what lineage of living masters teaches a Qigong system that includes this avoidance of/taboo against lucid dreaming.

 

Second, your fallacious statement--regardless of where you got it or from what written source you interpreted it from-- is immediately proven false by anyone who has read Chuang Tzu, which Taoists consider to be at least 1/3 of the Taoist Canon, or let's call it the literary reference of  "Taoist Tradition", as you put it...for Taoism is not wholly represented in writings, but much much more in esoteric yogic and spiritual practices.   Chuang Tzu was no beginner and he obviously advocated and celebrated dreamwork:

 

"Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Zhuangzi. Soon I awakened, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a distinction. The transition is called the transformation of material things."

  ---Lin Yu Tang translation of this classic Taoist parable, which only extols dreamwork--indeed reveling in the dreamstate--as an Advanced component of Chinese Yoga (Qigong)

 

As i said, Chuang Tzu was no beginner and his writing is a major part  of the Taoist Canon. And this passage speaks directly to the ALCHEMIC " TRANSFORMATION of material things."

 

Your second sentence of your first paragraph, stating that the "reason" supporting your (fallacious) theory is "simple" is also completely erroneous.  I don't know what type of lucid dreaming you  have experienced--if any--but lucid dreaming in my  personal experience  and in the experience of classmates in two authentic "Taoist Traditions"   (Tao Tan Pai from the Tang Dynasty and Ehrmei Mountain Bok Fu Pai from the 17th century) spanning almost 40 years, lucid dreaming has never, ever caused depletion of any Jing or any form of energy.  ON THE CONTRARY, LUCID DREAMING EMPOWERS ONE'S SPIRIT, MIND AND BODY.  This is not only true in authentic Taoist practices, but also corroborated by many Amerindian traditions, including the one taught by the late Carlos Castaneda, and by practitioners of western hermeticism ("Alchemy") with whom I'm closely acquainted.  The only form of dreaming that would deplete anyone of Jing or any amount of Qi would be a wet dream!!!

 

The reason for that is very simple - dreaming, especially vivid lucid dreaming, depletes one's jing and pactitioner must preserve it for converting it into Shen. But for that there must be a special alchemical method. 

 

You seem to believe--apparently based on someone's article interpreting various writings by Taoists Chen Tuan, Lu Tung Pin, etc. (that you cited at  https://forum.daode.ru/f1461/dream-yoga-taoist-view-33609/   )--- that the practitioner of any Taoist system must preserve his jing in order to convert it into Shen.  This supporting PHILOSOPHICAL THEORY that you cite--of transformation of jing into shen, besides being infinitessimally narrow and applicable only to a some--but not all Taoist Yogic traditions--HAS ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE TO THE PRACTICE OF FLYING PHOENIX QIGONG NOR TO ANY OF THE BOK FU PAI INTERNAL ARTS, NOR TO THE SPIRITUAL GROWTH AND TRANSFORMATION THAT THEY FACILITATE.  I have written throughout this thread that Flying Phoenix Qigong and the rest of the Bok Fu Pai Nei Kung arts DO NOT USE NOR NEED the descriptive framework of Traditional Chinese Medicine such as meridian theory, Yin-Yang Theory or 5 Element Theory.  None of that is necessary and none of those roadmaps represent "a special alchemical method." 

 

I also posted early on in this thread that when GM Doo Wai was asked by one of my classmates in the early 1990's whether we needed to observe celibacy or any form of restraint from sexual activity while learning any of the Bok Fu Pai Internal Arts--including Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Qigong--he told us, "Nah, you can guys can go knock yourselves out (having sex)!"  You obviously did not read this posting, which DIRECTLY REFUTES your over-generalization that "authentic Traditional Taoism" requires that  "the practitioner must preserve Jing for converting it into Shen" .  Otherwise, (I hope) you would not have posted your irrelevant over-generalization.   The FP Qigong and the other Bok Fu Pai internal arts that I preserve in that vast PURELY TAOIST TRADITION--HAVE YOGIC MECHANISMS THAT DO NOT USE THE TERMS OR CONCEPTS OF  "JING" OR "SHEN".   You may verify this fact with Sifu Garry Hearfield in Australia or any other certified instructors of Bok Fu Pai.

 

CHEN TUAN'S AND LU DENG BIN'S TEACHINGS APPLY ONLY TO THEIR RESPECTIVE TRADITIONS:  HUASHAN ARTS AND TAO TAN PAI, RESPECTIVELY--AND NOT TO THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE OF TAOIST NEI KUNG.  AND YET YOU TAKE THEM OUT OF CONTEXT AND CITE THEM HERE IN ORDER TO ASSERT  YOUR CULT-LIKE BELIEF IN THEIR WORDS WITHOUT ANY EXPERIENTIAL BASIS OF UNDERSTANDING.  HAVE YOU PRACTICED HUASHAN TAOIST ARTS?

HAVE YOUR PRACTICED ANY ART ATTRIBUTED TO LU DENG BIN?

 

IF YOU WANT TO RECITE  GENERAL OR UNIVERSAL CELEBRATIONS OF HIGH MEDITATIVE STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS, YOU CAN REFER LAO TZU'S  TAO TE CHING.  LONGER THAN I HAVE PRACTICED AND TAUGHT  FLYING PHOENIX QIGONG (BY 15 YEARS),  I ALSO TEACH TAN TAN PAI ("TAOIST ELIXIR METHOD"), WHICH IS LU DENG BIN'S ART.  HE IS THE PATRON SAINT OF TAO TAN PAI KUNG FU TRADITION.  HIS TECHNICAL YOGIC TEACHINGS THAT YOU CITED IN THAT RUSSIAN BLOG HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO APPLICATION NOR RELEVANCE TO FP QIGONG PRACTICE OR ANY BOK FU PAI ART.

 

As my Taoist colleague, author Deng Ming Dao, wrote in his 1980's biography of his great master, Huashan Taoist priest Kwan Sai Hung, "The Wandering Taoist" (which I strongly recommend that you and every Taoist practitioner read):

 

                              "There are no chakras.  There are no meridians.  Everything is Mind."

 

   And as my favorite teacher (da-xihing) of Tao Tan Pai, Master John Davidson, wrote:

 

         It is a special teaching (transmission) beyond words.  The writings of the ancients

                    point to IT (your "special alchemical method"), but THEY ARE NOT IT.

 

     And as Alfred J. Korzybsky, the great Polish mathematician-philosopher and the founder of General Semantics put it:

                                                               THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY.   

•And if one has the WILL POWER to read all 2,000 pages of his tome on General Semantics called "Science and Sanity," (warning: one can normally only read 5-7 pages per sitting), which is the greatest western tome that teaches Zen by purifying the mind of all tendencies towards semantic distortions, one will never confuse a map with the territory again:

https://ilam3d.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/alfred-korzybksi-science-and-sanity.pdf

 

[In the beginnig of this thread I read that Feng Tao Te invented this system while sitting in deep meditation for 9 years. He seemed to do that on the last stage of the alchemical practice (converting  Shen into Emptiness).  It might mean that  he reached the very high level of the alchemical mastery and gained Immortality. By the way did anyone have channeling to Feng Tao Te? ]

I BELIEVE YOU'VE READ THIS THREAD INCORRECTLY.  IF THAT INFO ABOUT FENG DO DUK SITTING IN MEDITATION FOR 9 YRS (IN ORDER THE CHANNEL THE BOK FU PAI ARTS) IS ON THIS THREAD, I DID NOT POST IT.  NONE OF MY CLASSMATES UNDER GM DOO WAI HAD POSTED IT, FOR GM DOO WAI HAD NEVER TAUGHT SUCH HISTORY ABOUT FENG DO DUK.  I KNOW THE NUMBER OF YEARS THAT FFD WAS ACTIVE AT EHRMEISHAN, BUT I WILL NOT DISCLOSE IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM.  THAT IS KNOWLEDGE DISCLOSED ONLY TO INITIATES OF BOK FU PAI.  YOU CAN TRY TO GET IT FROM SIFU GARRY HEARFIELD OR OTHER CERTIFIED BOK FU PAI INSTRUCTORS SUCH AS THE WHITE TIGER SCHOOL IN LOS ANGELES, BUT I DOUBT VERY MUCH THAT THEY WOULD TELL YOU.  BUT I WILL SAY THAT IT WAS FAR, FAR MORE THAN 9 YEARS. 

 

       [He seemed to do that on the last stage of the alchemical practice (converting  Shen into Emptiness).]

BLIND SPECULATION ON YOUR PART.  I.E., YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

  

AS STATED MANY TIMES OVER THE COURSE OF THIS THREAD, FLYING PHOENIX QIGONG PRACTICE AND ALL OF BOK FU PAI'S  NEI KUNG PRACTICES ARE NOT DESCRIBED BY THE WRITTEN OR PHILOSOPHICAL ROADMAPS OF ANY OTHER QIGONG SYSTEMS, TAOIST OR NON-TAOIST,  NOR BY THE PRINCIPLES OF T.C.M.   YOU ARE USING THE WRONG ROAD-MAP HERE TRYING TO FIND DIRECTIONS TO A PLACE THAT YOU ARE NOT READY FOR, WHEN IN ACTUALITY THERE IS NO ROAD-MAP.  THERE IS ONLY THE LIVING QIGONG ART AND A LINEAGE OF TEACHERS.

 

YOUR LITERAL EXPRESSION  "(converting  Shen into Emptiness)"  IS A TEACHING THAT I HAVE NOT HEARD OF--NOR IS IT A PROCESS OR A TEACHING THAT IS RELEVANT TO FP QIGONG OR BOK FU PAI NEI KUNG ARTS--AT ANY LEVEL.  RATHER, IT SOUNDS LIKE A BASTARDIZATION OF THE LAST TEACHING IN LIU HE BA FA (6 HARMONIES/8 METHODS KUNG FU--WHICH I ALSO HAVE STUDIED SINCE 1980 UNDER THE LATE MASTER YORK WHY LOO AND ACTIVE MASTER CHAN CHING KAI), WHICH GOES:

 

                            "MOVEMENT AND EMPTINESS COMBINE."  ("COMBINE" = "HARMONIZE")

 

OR, IT MIGHT BE A  TRANSLATOR'S GROSS SIMPLIFICATION OF THE BUDDHA'S TEACHINGS ABOUT THE HIGHEST STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE VISSUDHIMAGGA, WHICH ARE REFERRED TO (IN TRANSLATION) AS THE FOUR "FORMLESS" JHANAS. ...BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHERE IT COMES FROM.

 

PLUS, YOUR SPECULATIONS ABOUT FENG DO DUK'S LAST STAGE OF ALCHEMICAL PRACTICE AND WHETHER OR NOT HE HAS OR HAS NOT ATTAINED IMMORTALITY IS IRRELEVANT TO ANYONE'S GROWTH OR PROGRESS IN FP QIGONG OR ANY QIGONG.  

 

Please, stop posting on this thread your blind speculations and wildly erroneous beliefs about the relationship between lucid dreaming and the cultivation of Shen.   The beliefs that you've  put forth as supporting "facts" or  Taoist principles are not grounded in  any human yogic experience.  If you wish to speculate about the requirements of preserving jing in order to convert Jing into Shen" through "a special alchemical method", you can start a separate discussion thread on that topic, as Earl Grey had suggested.

 

This subject of this thread for the past 9.25 years is the correct practice of Flying Phoenix Qigong.  THIS COMMUNITY THREAD IS A RESOURCE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN CORRECTLY PRACTICING FP QIGONG OVER THE LONG TERM OR ARE ACTIVELY PRACTICING IT TO AVAIL THEMSELVES IMMEDIATELY TO THIS ART"S PROFOUND HEALING, REJUVENATING, CONSCIOUSNESS-EXPANDING, AND SPIRITUAL BENEFITS. 

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

 

 

                   Why know the name of a thing, when the thing itself you do not know? 

                                                                                                            -- Carlos Castaneda

 

www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

Edited April 14, 2019 by zen-bear

[dlc123]

Hello All,

 

I just recently began practicing FPCK and I had a few questions about some details. 

 

During the standing version of Monk Gazing At Moon, should one direct fix their gaze at the "space between" the palms, or past the palms into the space beyond them?

 

Is there a slight pause after each % exhale (before the next full inhale)? It seem's like Sifu Terry is pausing but I can't tell if he is just doing so in order to give verbal instruction.

 

Generally, during the postures is there an intentional elongation/deepening of the lower dantian breathing? Or should one just simply put enough attention on the dantian to make sure they are breathing into the abdomen and not the chest?

 

Very specific questions (and maybe knitpicky), but answers would be appreciated!

 

Cheers

[Astral_butterfly]

9 hours ago, dlc123 said:

Hello All,

 

I just recently began practicing FPCK and I had a few questions about some details. 

 

During the standing version of Monk Gazing At Moon, should one direct fix their gaze at the "space between" the palms, or past the palms into the space beyond them?

 

Is there a slight pause after each % exhale (before the next full inhale)? It seem's like Sifu Terry is pausing but I can't tell if he is just doing so in order to give verbal instruction.

 

Generally, during the postures is there an intentional elongation/deepening of the lower dantian breathing? Or should one just simply put enough attention on the dantian to make sure they are breathing into the abdomen and not the chest?

 

Very specific questions (and maybe knitpicky), but answers would be appreciated!

 

Cheers

 

Hi dlc123

 

Welcome!

 

I am no expert, but I started this practice years ago then abandoned and took it up again very seriously. I have read and re-read the thread, so I may be useful.

 

In Monk Gazing at the Moon, the top of your curved fingers are at eye level and you gaze through the space between the fingertips, so into the space directly in front of you, it should take your gaze beyond the space.

 

As for the pause, I would not do one if I were you, because that would alter the pattern. There is no retention between the instructed breaths, and any inhale or exhale would be an extra. So no, no pause, lest you mess up the pattern.

 

Concerning the breathing into the lower Dan Tien, you need not even make a special effort, just breathe normally (this allows you to get taken in by the meditative state naturally). If, like me you breathe naturally into this lower area (I re-trained myself years ago), all the better. But there is not forced breathing or forced breath focus in FPCK.

 

Anyone else here will correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe this is how it is done.

 

Enjoy your practice!

Edited April 10, 2019 by Astral_butterfly

[Antares]

On 02.04.2019 at 4:09 PM, StillWater said:

Antares, could you elaborate on what you mean by pre-heaven and post heaven energies?   For that matter, could anyone chime in and pick apart what is meant when Sifu says FP meditations are "sublime?"   I am assuming this isn't the standard definition (at least in part) of "awesome."   It seems to be more in line with alchemical elevation-of-spirit tendencies.

 

 

Hi, I am not "picking apart" the method of FPQ but reason about practices during the sleep. That said all people have the same body structure and energies mechanics. Pre-Heaven Jing is the energy that person obtains from his/her parents (and has certain limited volume) and when it is exhausted the person passes away. More over that I wonder about the FP approach to that energies mechanics  

[Earl Grey]

@Antares I appreciate your perspective and experience, but it would be best if you open another discussion thread since that’s not tied to how Flying Phoenix works as Sifu Terry said above. 

 

We welcome you to share your insights in relation to the topic.

[Antares]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

@Antares I appreciate your perspective and experience, but it would be best if you open another discussion thread since that’s not tied to how Flying Phoenix works as Sifu Terry said above. 

 

We welcome you to share your insights in relation to the topic.

 

Well, I understand your point but do not understand why the reaction on my query is so harsh. I personally would appreciate any grounded view on any aspect of human spiritual development. I just wanted to know the perspective of FPQ on Yuan Jing (because it is one of the basic fundamentals im any taoist art) and that why I brought up this topic in this thread. 

 

Quote

YOUR LITERAL EXPRESSION  "(converting  Shen into Emptiness)"  IS A TEACHING THAT I HAVE NOT HEARD OF--NOR IS IT A PROCESS OR A TEACHING THAT IS RELEVANT TO FP QIGONG OR BOK FU PAI NEI KUNG ARTS--AT ANY LEVEL.  RATHER, IT SOUNDS LIKE A BASTARDIZATION OF THE LAST TEACHING IN LIU HE BA FA

  

No, this is not BASTARDIZATION at all.

May be I used the wrong word "converting" instead of "turning" but in general it is last stage of the spiritual transformation in taoist arts. For example 

 

Quote

Turn “Shen” into “Emptiness”

This is the ultimate stage of the internal training. It is also known as “9 years stage”. In ancient Chinese, 9 is the highest positive number. It implies it would take a long long time to achieve this stage of “one becomes nothing”. Becomes nothing is the same as back to Taoism. To achieve this, one must relocate “Shen” to “upper Dan Tian”. “Upper Dan Tian” is the home where “Shen” is to be trained. “Middle Dan Tian” and “lower Dan Tian” are the home for “medicine” and “essence”. Shifting “Shen” to “upper Dan Tian” is to shift the embryo (resulting from the previous stage) to “upper Dan Tian”. The emphasis is on emptiness. One’s character is trained under this relaxed, peaceful and empty mind. The feeling is like the body has combined with Earth and Heaven, lasting forever. It is known as “body and heaven combine into one”. The final result is the body and “Shen” form a pair which can greatly enhance our life.

https://internalwudangmartialarts.com/2016/04/01/the-four-stages-in-wudang-meditation/

 

So you suppose this is absolutely irrelevant to the FPQ system? What is the final goal of FPQ may I ask then? Thanks

  

[dlc123]

32 minutes ago, Antares said:

Here is the video in regard to the TCM perspective on Yuan Jing and the ways we can speed up the losses of this energy and possibility to reduce the loss of it. 

 

 

 

Just my two cents for @Antares (I am a new member of the forum and finding it fun to engage). I am no expert on Chinese medicine but I am currently a student at an Pacific College of Oriental Medicine and many of my classes focus on the fundamentals of TCM.

 

"TCM" as a modality is only about 70 years old, codified by Mao Tse Tung after he formed The Peoples Republic of China... Before that, CCM (Classical Chinese Medicine) and any other healing traditions native to China were provincial and based on family lineage and many retained more of their shamanistic roots. All this is to say that it is quite possible that concepts like pre and post natal jing/qi have only recently been codified as foundational concepts in the medicine and were not necessarily on the minds of EVERY practitioner of Chinese medicine and/or Taoist yoga/alchemy throughout history. (Side note: many of the mores "Esoteric" elements of Chinese healing practices were erased from the TCM paradigm by Mao and his cohort.)

 

Therefore it would be entirely feasible for a Taoist sage and master to codify a system of Qi Gong without putting any emphasis on pre/post natal qi or jing and still have that system be fully capable of deep healing. It is quite possible that someone like Feng Tao Teh could have been well aware of the ways in which qi and jing manifest and the effects that FPCK was having on qi and jing, but felt that the Qi Gong would not be made more or less powerful by including those concepts in his instruction. Similarly, many Buddhist masters (especially in the Therevadan system) are well aware of all of the energetic experiences that can be produced through meditation, but do not find dwelling on those experiences to be useful in the path to enlightenment, so they are simply left out of the formal teaching. 

 

Also, as far as dreaming, many (if not all) spiritual traditions consider dreams to be powerful tools on the path to enlightenment. Carl Jung knew this and he had studied and written about many eastern spiritual traditions as well as Kundalini Yoga. In Tibetan Buddhism there as an entire Yogic system dedicated to using lucid dreaming as a way of accelerating spiritual progress. You can check out a book by Andrew Holecek called Dream Yoga if you're interested.

 

As stated above, just my opinion! No interested in conflict but fun to have a dialogue.

 

Cheers

Edited April 11, 2019 by dlc123

[tao stillness]

I think this last post sums up the situation nicely and it would be nice if this thread could return to its intention of being for Flying Phoenix Chi Kung topics. The topic on dreams clearly does not relate to FP and the contributor  has been asked to continue that topic if he wishes on his own thread or elsewhere. 

[Earl Grey]

36 minutes ago, Antares said:

Well, I understand your point but do not understand why the reaction on my query is so harsh. I personally would appreciate any grounded view on any aspect of human spiritual development. I just wanted to know the perspective of FPQ on Yuan Jing (because it is one of the basic fundamentals im any taoist art) and that why I brought up this topic in this thread. 

 

As far as I know and what Sifu Terry talks about, we don't focus on chakras, meridians, jing, qi, or shen so much because FP qi is intelligent. It goes where it's needed and all is mind as Sifu Terry said above when quoting a fellow scholar. It's a system even TCM itself can't classify or explain how it works and was said at some point in the thread.

 

36 minutes ago, Antares said:

No, this is not BASTARDIZATION at all.

May be I used the wrong word "converting" instead of "turning" but in general it is last stage of the spiritual transformation in taoist arts. 

 

36 minutes ago, Antares said:

So you suppose this is absolutely irrelevant to the FPQ system? What is the final goal of FPQ may I ask then? Thanks

 

The end goal of Flying Phoenix (as I have understood from my class with Sifu Terry) is to heal others as it's one of the most (if not the most powerful system) for healing since the energy will spontaneously leap off of you onto others. 

 

I can't speak for anyone's reactions, including Sifu Terry's, but I attribute Internet communication to be difficult on top of people with different language and emotional intelligence backgrounds trying to express without the nuances of tone and in context--on top of an already very esoteric subject matter, and there are very few qualified individuals with the authority to talk about this, and there are very few universalities amongst systems. So your tradition isn't necessarily going to give you as much help understanding FP in relation to what you've been taught the same way a basketball player can't go to a volleyball team and ask them to explain how their sport will help him improve his skill in basketball. 

 

What I can emphasize is that an appropriate way of asking your questions in the beginning was acceptable, but when quoting other sources and lineages in the manner you have can potentially be read as a challenge to the authority of the teacher and derails the focus since it is no longer about FP, but about dreams and Yuan qi, and as I and Sifu Terry are answering now, it's not relevant because FP makes no such distinctions to focus on chakras, dantians, meridians, or the like. 

 

However, if you are curious as to how it works for you as an individual, I highly recommend you get in touch with Eric Isen who can make a specific reading for you and your questions on how FP would affect your dream practice and on dantians and chakras.

 

I'd like to now invite everyone to focus on Flying Phoenix. Thank you. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Antares]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

What I can emphasize is that an appropriate way of asking your questions in the beginning was acceptable, but when quoting other sources and lineages in the manner you have can potentially be read as a challenge to the authority of the teacher and derails the focus since it is no longer about FP, but about dreams and Yuan qi, and as I and Sifu Terry are answering now, it's not relevant because FP makes no such distinctions to focus on chakras, dantians, meridians, or the like. 

 

This is not only about FP, dreams and yuan qi... This all is about human being. If one does not believe that yuanqi does exist it does not mean that it does not exist. We have to realise that all people are born, getting older and finally dying, This is the truth of the world  

[Earl Grey]

On 4/12/2019 at 12:20 AM, Antares said:

 

This is not only about FP, dreams and yuan qi... This all is about human being. If one does not believe that yuanqi does exist it does not mean that it does not exist. We have to realise that all people are born, getting older and finally dying, This is the truth of the world  

 

As designated overseer of this thread by both Sifu Terry and the admin of TDB, I ask you to please stay on topic as all posts irrelevant to this topic will be deleted.

 

You are welcome to participate without disrupting or posting argumentative beliefs that deviate from the focus on Flying Phoenix, as the contrarian approach is distracting the conversation.

 

Thank you.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Earl Grey
Clarification

[BluePhoenix133]

FP does seem to be stronger when you have a good store of jing and are well rested... imo

I see you were all talking about dreamk but i did not feel like posting although i had only just had a very interesting vivid dream which i think was influenced by fp. I have had very lucid dream for many years now and flying dreams are not uncommon. I used to get prophetic dreams sometimes very accurate, useless though and i was never grounded enough to try and change the outcom.... i dont really get that anymore perhaps very faintly and i think its due to illness. Anway i used to have flying dreams before practicing flying phoenix but not some times when i have flying dreams like i did a couple of days ago instead of just flying i actually flap my arms like a bird

The dream i had it was a windy summers day along a road in the english country side at a village i used to live near, although it was not totally accurate, it was so windy i though i could fly and started flapping my arms...it was so vivid. I felt wind around my but mostly my palms of my hand, which is why i think flying phoenix might be why i was having this dreams because it felt a bit like the energy my palms emit when doing the practice and sometimes spontaneously when not practicing.

I was just above cars, sticking to a road and the enviroment was changing like a proceedurally generated computer game... i made my self go high by flapping my arms... i started to make bird noises to freak out the people below me haha, but i ended up going really high up say like 50 ft perhaps more and i though this is pretty dangerous so i tried to go back down but couldnt. I tried to angle my arms to no avail, i tried to get into a ball but i just kept climbing and climbing then the dream ended.

At least this time i didnt get stuck in a tree. Another reason i think that dream occured and was so vivid is because sometime i take a tincture called the flying potion which has reishi mushroom. red asparagus root, panax ginseng and shizandra berry. Its not uncommon for me to have flying dreams but when i take this stuff it can make me more lucid than usual.

The guy i get it from goes by the name Nyishar you can find his site using google and his channel on youtube has some very well put together videos.

[Earl Grey]

Fellow students, I was practicing for a small workshop in my friend's cafe in Manila today, the internationally acclaimed "Van Gogh is Bipolar" (VGiB from hereon out), which I have been visiting for years since its opening 10 years ago. A total of 38 registered but a final number of 11 came to the workshop because it's already summer in the Philippines and the heat reached 38˚ Celsius. So in an attempt to share the magic of Flying Phoenix, I used it as an introduction to Taoism and Qigong (and to Sifu Terry's DVDs).

 

From seeing colors of purple, green, blue, white, and gold to involuntary movements, lightheadedness, and burping, the workshop was unanimously praised and resulted in people wanting more Qigong workshops there at a rate of 1-2x a month now and will hopefully lead to a regular group of FP meditators and new students joining this thread. 

 

VGiB is a healing cafe where the use of organic food was the basis for the owner Jethro, himself a bipolar individual, grew sick of medication and found he could regulate his moods through the use of certain natural foods and teas. He turned his home into a cafe and art exhibition of his Mad Hatter-like tea party theme with steampunk and mixed media influences. Since then, what was once a hole in the wall became a place that has become globally beloved (and subsequently invaded), which led to him downplaying its commercialism to focus on giving back to his community. As such, knowing me for the past decade, he invited me to introduce people to Qigong, healing, Taoism, and meditation since he was sick of the self-declared masters who ended up being completely divorced from self-work and focused on power and energetic sensation. 

 

A little snippet where you might be able to find me here: 

 

 

 

To keep this on the topic of Flying Phoenix, Jethro has experienced all sorts of energy workers from Jyorei to Reiki and Pranic Healing, traveled as a photographer internationally, has had local shamanistic experiences on top of his own bipolar tendencies, and he and his partner both were delighted to say that Flying Phoenix was the most enjoyable energy they had ever experienced. 

 

His partner, an artist, only ever saw colors once before in his 45+ years of life, but this time, he was seeing colors every meditation. Participants who came with anger, insomnia, or anxiety left with a feeling of openness and blissful calm, and two documentarians from Singapore who were observing the whole time commented that they themselves felt lightheaded in the same room as the workshop even if they themselves didn't do any of the meditations. 

 

We closed it with a little exercise I learned when I used to do taiko drumming in university that explained Oneness through a physics concept called the Law of Entrainment and joining heartbeats together while exchanging some experiences, and I shared some stories of Flying Phoenix right from this thread. 

 

There you go: Flying Phoenix was beloved by a group of people seeking healing and with their very first experience, gave it universal praise. 

 

Go out and buy your friends and family 2 copies of the DVDs and start healing the world around you because it works wonders more when you come together in a group. It's the best thing you can do in an era when people want to argue with each other online and seldom find something that brings them together through a common interest. 

[Astral_butterfly]

Thank you for the truly beautiful video.

[BluePhoenix133]

That looks really cool, as soon as i saw that Jethro guy i couldnt help but laugh so it seems he is doing something right. I wish i had somewhere like that where i lived, i have thought about starting a meet up to do flying phoenix with people but im not qualified to teach.

You know i never really see any colours doing flying phoenix, i do have quite and active pineal gland however and get trippy visual especially when im laying down to sleep. So i get some of that when i meditate but it doesnt sound the same as to what others experience, the only thing that seemed to be related is seeing what must of been quan yin in my minds eye. I dont see any of the flying phoenix chi but i just feel it instead.

[Earl Grey]

42 minutes ago, BluePhoenix133 said:

That looks really cool, as soon as i saw that Jethro guy i couldnt help but laugh so it seems he is doing something right. I wish i had somewhere like that where i lived, i have thought about starting a meet up to do flying phoenix with people but im not qualified to teach.

You know i never really see any colours doing flying phoenix, i do have quite and active pineal gland however and get trippy visual especially when im laying down to sleep. So i get some of that when i meditate but it doesnt sound the same as to what others experience, the only thing that seemed to be related is seeing what must of been quan yin in my minds eye. I dont see any of the flying phoenix chi but i just feel it instead.

 

You could have them watch the DVD with you and then support each other, and encourage them to buy their own copies--that's an idea since you aren't a teacher at the moment. 

 

What I forgot to mention is one participant saw a luminous golden being while meditating.