Taoist View on Vegetarianism

[Yoda]

Yes tis correct. On these two days, they would also take baths with water thats been fused with a few leaves from the pomelo tree -- This is to purify the body and dispel *bad luck* and also to avert any possible *damage* from colliding with wandering souls. Once cleansed, visits to temples to make offerings to celestial beings and ancestors would be the norm.

 

Thanks Cowtao,

 

I've not tried pomelo leaf bathing, have you? I wonder if they would grow in South Carolina?

 

Do people cleanse their homes on the 1st and 15th too?

 

Tao Toe,

Yoda

[C T]

Thanks Cowtao,

 

I've not tried pomelo leaf bathing, have you? I wonder if they would grow in South Carolina?

 

Do people cleanse their homes on the 1st and 15th too?

 

Tao Toe,

Yoda

Master Yoda,

 

Not too sure if the climate suits, but you certainly have other options. Perhaps they would grow in a greenhouse, and should this be a viable alternative, there's the added benefit of delighting in the fruits! The other option would be to try the local Asian/Chinese grocers, if they can be found near where you are. Anyway, its a practice lost to the younger generations, i think, so if you're considering growing pomelo trees on a commercial scale to supply the leaves to the Chinese community in your area, you might want to give it a miss!

 

Yes I still do it sometimes. old habits die hard, as they say... Its something that can be done anytime, actually, just as a form of self-purification ritual, not unlike the Christians blessing themselves with Holy Water. Now here's an idea Master Yoda -- how about a knock-out combination of HW fused with pomelo leaves?!! [HAH be gone you nasty critters of the netherworld... take that KAPOW!!]

 

As for house-cleansing, hm not sure what you mean exactly, but i know the altars in Chinese Taoist homes are always spruced up on those two days -- extra joss-sticks are used, extra fruits, cakes and sweets are laid out before the deities, all oil-lamps are lit, candles etc. Some would even burn a type of camphor in a small, portable clay holder and, while reciting a mantra/prayer, it is then taken around in-house and also the immediate vicinity of the house, again, for purification. I guess its better to make sure nothing sinister gets to lurk around in the garage eh?

 

Words, words, words.. wish i could have said all this in 5 sentences! Sorry for rambling!

 

Blessings!

[Kali Yuga]

Vegetarianism.

 

I think that vegetarianism should be practiced as a health concern only and not as a spiritual path.

 

Not all cultures are vegetarian, and if you make them eat vegetarian they will suffer because it's not what they're used to. It's like expecting a bear to stick to a diet of bean sprouts.

 

My guru's guru told him that you should eat whatever you're used to as long as you remain healthy.

 

It's a fact that Jesus, Krishna and the Buddha all ate meat.

 

My guru told me something that just blew my mind the other week,

 

He said Jesus didn't say blessed are the PURE IN FOOD, for they shall see god (through their dietary practices)

 

Jesus said Blessed are the PURE IN HEART, for they shall SEE GOD (through their purity of heart).

 

It is completely superficial to think that you can eat your way to heaven.

 

It is your HEART that will lead you to higher realms, not your gut.

 

If you practice vegetarianism out of compassion, then that is your choice. Don't attempt to force it on others.

 

Don't expect it to amount to great significance.

 

May your hearts always be pure so that you will realize true love.

 

Kali

[C T]

Vegetarianism.

 

I think that vegetarianism should be practiced as a health concern only and not as a spiritual path.

 

Not all cultures are vegetarian, and if you make them eat vegetarian they will suffer because it's not what they're used to. It's like expecting a bear to stick to a diet of bean sprouts.

 

My guru's guru told him that you should eat whatever you're used to as long as you remain healthy.

 

It's a fact that Jesus, Krishna and the Buddha all ate meat.

 

My guru told me something that just blew my mind the other week,

 

He said Jesus didn't say blessed are the PURE IN FOOD, for they shall see god (through their dietary practices)

 

Jesus said Blessed are the PURE IN HEART, for they shall SEE GOD (through their purity of heart).

 

It is completely superficial to think that you can eat your way to heaven.

 

It is your HEART that will lead you to higher realms, not your gut.

 

If you practice vegetarianism out of compassion, then that is your choice. Don't attempt to force it on others.

 

Don't expect it to amount to great significance.

 

May your hearts always be pure so that you will realize true love.

 

Kali

Hello Kali Yuga,

 

Nice name -- any special reason for picking it? Just curious..

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Its always nice to see all the different perspectives and reflect them against one's own limited knowledge.

 

I have one question if you dont mind -- In your opinion, would one who adopt vegetarianism out of compassion have the opportunity also to develop a pure heart along the way, and do you see compassion and a pure heart as two distinct modes of being?

 

I seem to have read something into your post that perhaps is not really there, hence the need to ask.

 

Thanks if you choose to reply. If not, that's okay too!

[Marblehead]

Um...

Do you keep up with any Daoist cultivation?

 

How to answer this question?

 

If you mean by 'cultivation' ritualistic practice then the answer is no.

 

If, on the other hand, you mean, do I practice Taoist philosophy in my life then the answer is yes.

 

My Taoist philosophy is based solely on the writings of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu. In these writings I find an excellent guide as to how one should live their life so that they may live their life to the fullest but yet live to their maximum length of time excluding unavoidable accisents.

 

So, yes, I cultivate Taoism on a daily basis by observing the processes in nature and trying to be as much in harmony as possible with these natural processes.

 

Of course, Taoism is not the only governing guidance in my life because I have had my own unique experiences and also hold to other thoughts that are not necessarily considered a part of Taoist philosophy.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

What do you define as a pure heart?

 

A pure heart is one that is not impure...

 

Now that is called taking the easy way out. Hehehe.

 

Yes, a pure heart is defined by the Taoist thoughts on "Virtue". Stig has a nice thread going on "Virtue".

 

Peace & Love!

[Yoda]

Cowtao,

 

Thanks for the info! I think that the camphor lamp was what I was wondering about... thanks!

 

Now here's an idea Master Yoda -- how about a knock-out combination of HW fused with pomelo leaves?!!

 

Sounds fun... what's HW?

 

I've been told that pomelo fruit is sold at the Asian grocery stores but haven't found any yet. I could grow the leaves then and keep the plant inside in the winter. Also, pomelo is related to grapefruit... maybe one of those could do the trick? It sounds fun!

 

Tao Toe,

Yoda

[de_paradise]

Where you have karma, you have vegetarianism. Latter day Taoism being fused with Buddhist concepts like karma. The I-Guan Dao sect of Taiwan are vegetarians. Now some people take karma lightly and do not have any issue with daily killing animals for food, some rely on cultural norms and superstitions such as the Chinese New Year or Lent, one shouldnt such-and-such. I stopped by a Taoist temple the other day, just a small one, in Taipei, which contained Guanyin, the boddhisattva of compassion--and vegetarianism!

 

I think with today's factory farming practices, one need not be Buddhist orTaoist, but perhaps a psychopath devoid of any feelings towards any being besides humans to be able to condone what is being done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

[C T]

Cowtao,

 

Thanks for the info! I think that the camphor lamp was what I was wondering about... thanks!

Sounds fun... what's HW?

 

I've been told that pomelo fruit is sold at the Asian grocery stores but haven't found any yet. I could grow the leaves then and keep the plant inside in the winter. Also, pomelo is related to grapefruit... maybe one of those could do the trick? It sounds fun!

 

Tao Toe,

Yoda

Master Yoda,

 

HW = Holy Water!

 

Yeah i would think pomelo for the East and grapefruit for the West sounds reasonably practical -- give it a go, and have fun! My mom was saying lime leaves would be just as functional..

 

Forgot to mention that the camphor lamp ritual is more than likely *borrowed* from Hinduism. Just a thought..

 

Cheerio!

[wudangspirit]

Marblehead,

 

TTC and Zhuangzi are not the only texts. Vegetarianism is definitely a must for monastics. If you are in the temple you ARE vegetarian.

If you are outside the temple you have your choice but it is recommended. However, balance it best. Too much meat can cause too much heat.

 

There is absolutely nothing in the Tao Te Ching or in the writings of Chuang Tzu that suggest one should be a vegetarian.

 

In fact, Chuang Tzu tells a story where he is a guest and eats duck for dinner.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Marblehead,

 

TTC and Zhuangzi are not the only texts.

 

Hehehe. I know, I know. But those are the only ones "I" will ever talk about. See how narrow-minded & tunnel-visioned I am?

 

(Hey! When you find the answer you don't need to ask any more questions.)

 

Peace & Love!

[Kali Yuga]

Hello Kali Yuga,

 

Nice name -- any special reason for picking it? Just curious..

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Its always nice to see all the different perspectives and reflect them against one's own limited knowledge.

 

I have one question if you dont mind -- In your opinion, would one who adopt vegetarianism out of compassion have the opportunity also to develop a pure heart along the way, and do you see compassion and a pure heart as two distinct modes of being?

 

I seem to have read something into your post that perhaps is not really there, hence the need to ask.

 

Thanks if you choose to reply. If not, that's okay too!

 

Hi CowTao.

 

Kali Yuga resonates with me deeply because all the world's a battle, and we have to play out our own roles in it. It is true we live in a deeply "sinful" age, with humans killing each other an an unprecedented scale and forgetting the Source from which all that is comes, and all that is goes. We have made the greatest mistake possible by identifying with bodies that rot away, possessions that come to possess us, and minds that enslave our consciousness. We have forgotten who we are and to what purpose we have journeyed here. We live in a darkened age with more people suffering than ever before. We must strive to awaken or die, over and over, like a nightmare that always goes on with you awakening from you sleep, only into another nightmare. Yet in a realm where such suffering and ignorance pervades, it is here where the most possible spiritual progress can be made. To quote Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in his poem "A Psalm of Life", we must not be "dumb-driven cattle, but heroes in the strife!".

 

To answer your question, both are separate things but one may progress from the other.

 

A person who practices vegetarianism out of compassion may be hurtful and bigoted to his fellow human beings.

 

A person with a pure heart may eat animals but shall be blameless among both gods and men.

 

If your heart leaves you to believe that vegetarianism is the best way towards purity, then that is what you must do.

 

Only your inner self will teach you what lessons you must learn, there is no "one size fits all" dogma that you must subscribe to achieve a purer soul.

 

You must have the RIGHT REASONS for pursuing any particular path, if the "right path" is made for the wrong reasons you will fail to make progress. It is less of a logical construct and political correctness, and more of a following of your feelings and intuition.

 

This is also why I believe that the greatest spiritual progress can be made not in some far away, mountain monastery trying to destroy your passions and feelings and practicing austerities that you might not even believe in, but in communion with other people in the villages and in the cities living the life that most other people live. It is the most "spiritually hardcore" path in my opinion because you are subjecting yourself to the test all the time. It requires you to make hard spiritual choices at every moment and to question everything that you practice and believe in, all the time. And life among non monastics is much harder because everything that happens is much faster, the pain and suffering comes much faster, choices are much harder, propelling you towards even more seeking of your true self in effort to stop the suffering. You can ignore the suffering and prolong inner evolution, but that is your own choice to be stupid. It all boils down to your choices. This is the benefit of the Kali Yuga. It's an inner and outer free-for-all for the most hardcore spiritual seeker.

 

 

Kali

[C T]

Hi CowTao.

 

Kali Yuga resonates with me deeply because all the world's a battle, and we have to play out our own roles in it. It is true we live in a deeply "sinful" age, with humans killing each other an an unprecedented scale and forgetting the Source from which all that is comes, and all that is goes. We have made the greatest mistake possible by identifying with bodies that rot away, possessions that come to possess us, and minds that enslave our consciousness. We have forgotten who we are and to what purpose we have journeyed here. We live in a darkened age with more people suffering than ever before. We must strive to awaken or die, over and over, like a nightmare that always goes on with you awakening from you sleep, only into another nightmare. Yet in a realm where such suffering and ignorance pervades, it is here where the most possible spiritual progress can be made. To quote Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in his poem "A Psalm of Life", we must not be "dumb-driven cattle, but heroes in the strife!".

 

To answer your question, both are separate things but one may progress from the other.

 

A person who practices vegetarianism out of compassion may be hurtful and bigoted to his fellow human beings.

 

A person with a pure heart may eat animals but shall be blameless among both gods and men.

 

If your heart leaves you to believe that vegetarianism is the best way towards purity, then that is what you must do.

 

Only your inner self will teach you what lessons you must learn, there is no "one size fits all" dogma that you must subscribe to achieve a purer soul.

 

You must have the RIGHT REASONS for pursuing any particular path, if the "right path" is made for the wrong reasons you will fail to make progress. It is less of a logical construct and political correctness, and more of a following of your feelings and intuition.

 

This is also why I believe that the greatest spiritual progress can be made not in some far away, mountain monastery trying to destroy your passions and feelings and practicing austerities that you might not even believe in, but in communion with other people in the villages and in the cities living the life that most other people live. It is the most "spiritually hardcore" path in my opinion because you are subjecting yourself to the test all the time. It requires you to make hard spiritual choices at every moment and to question everything that you practice and believe in, all the time. And life among non monastics is much harder because everything that happens is much faster, the pain and suffering comes much faster, choices are much harder, propelling you towards even more seeking of your true self in effort to stop the suffering. You can ignore the suffering and prolong inner evolution, but that is your own choice to be stupid. It all boils down to your choices. This is the benefit of the Kali Yuga. It's an inner and outer free-for-all for the most hardcore spiritual seeker.

Kali

Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply Kali! Well said..

 

Reminds me of the saying, "When the wrong person uses the right means, the right means

will work in the wrong way."

 

 

 

Cheerio!

 

CT

[Taomeow]

I'm just a cat whose digestion is good --

Oh Lord, please don't let me be deprived of food...

[C T]

I'm just a cat whose digestion is good --

Oh Lord, please don't let me be deprived of food...

cool!

 

Here pussy, pussy.. have some durians! They're heavenly! The fruit of the kings...

if you can first get past the 'fragrance', that is! hehehe

[Taomeow]

cool!

 

Here pussy, pussy.. have some durians! They're heavenly! The fruit of the kings...

if you can first get past the 'fragrance', that is! hehehe

believe it or not, I can. I buy it at a local Asian market when I feel adventurous. It can stink up the house (I burn incense when I cut it) but the yum factor is worth it.

 

I'm an adventurous eater in general, I almost bought a shish kabob of grubs in a rainforest market in Peru, but the horror in my companion's eyes stopped me... Sigh... it smelled so good, even though it looked like an Indiana Jones horror-feast episode. I've seen things eaten that a normal supermarket shopper can't begin to imagine, and I ate some though not all of them. I ate fried cow brains in Mexico, though I couldn't stop thinking prions, mad cow disease... but I couldn't refuse, it was supposed to be a special treat, I was specifically invited to try something genuine...

 

One taoist thing I can't do is eat a turtle. Many times I almost bought one in Chinatown because they are supposed to nourish your Kidneys and your Liver and your jing and what-not and improve your eyesight and your third eye sight and rejuvenate you and the list goes on and on. But they look so damn sentient. You try to buy one, he makes eye contact with you and transmits a "hell no" right into your cerebellum. Guess I'll never get past that...

Edited November 17, 2009 by Taomeow

[Kali Yuga]

believe it or not, I can. I buy it at a local Asian market when I feel adventurous. It can stink up the house (I burn incense when I cut it) but the yum factor is worth it.

 

I'm an adventurous eater in general, I almost bought a shish kabob of grubs in a rainforest market in Peru, but the horror in my companion's eyes stopped me... Sigh... it smelled so good, even though it looked like an Indiana Jones horror-feast episode. I've seen things eaten that a normal supermarket shopper can't begin to imagine, and I ate some though not all of them. I ate fried cow brains in Mexico, though I couldn't stop thinking prions, mad cow disease... but I couldn't refuse, it was supposed to be a special treat, I was specifically invited to try something genuine...

 

One taoist thing I can't do is eat a turtle. Many times I almost bought one in Chinatown because they are supposed to nourish your Kidneys and your Liver and your jing and what-not and improve your eyesight and your third eye sight and rejuvenate you and the list goes on and on. But they look so damn sentient. You try to buy one, he makes eye contact with you and transmits a "hell no" right into your cerebellum. Guess I'll never get past that...

 

Ever eaten Balut? (embryonic chick egg almost fully developed, steam boiled)

 

Lol. When I first treid it here in the Philippines I almost puked.

 

Now it's just another everyday snack. I guess it's always the first time that gets ya.

 

BTW yeah I can imagine not being able to eat turtle. there's something about them that's just not animal. lol

[Taomeow]

Ever eaten Balut? (embryonic chick egg almost fully developed, steam boiled)

 

Lol. When I first treid it here in the Philippines I almost puked.

 

Now it's just another everyday snack. I guess it's always the first time that gets ya.

 

BTW yeah I can imagine not being able to eat turtle. there's something about them that's just not animal. lol

Balut -- is that what it's called? I occasionally had it when I was little, but not recently. My grandmother used to start her chicken dishes with a live chicken, and would give me a full lecture on vertebrates anatomy as she opened the chicken, producing all its internal organs and explaining their functions. At the age of perhaps 2 or 3, I was put in charge of some of the chicken tasks, one of them being to check and announce if there's any -- hmm, Balut! -- inside. I was excited when there were. Another task I had was to clean out all the little pebbles from the chicken's stomach (chickens swallow them to help grind the grains they eat) in preparation for what would become a "gizzard" when separated from the tough yellow inner lining. (That's how I know that the inside of the chicken's stomach is made of the same kind of tough leathery material as the outside of the chicken's feet.) Removing the lining was something I was allowed to do only later, at 5 or so when I was thought old enough to responsibly handle a sharp knife.

 

Yes, you're right about turtles... they are not animals in the ordinary sense, they're something else... in any event, I'm sure it's OK for an animal (including the human animal) to eat another animal, but I'm not so sure it's OK for an animal to eat a something else.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Taomeow

[C T]

believe it or not, I can. I buy it at a local Asian market when I feel adventurous. It can stink up the house (I burn incense when I cut it) but the yum factor is worth it.

 

I'm an adventurous eater in general, I almost bought a shish kabob of grubs in a rainforest market in Peru, but the horror in my companion's eyes stopped me... Sigh... it smelled so good, even though it looked like an Indiana Jones horror-feast episode. I've seen things eaten that a normal supermarket shopper can't begin to imagine, and I ate some though not all of them. I ate fried cow brains in Mexico, though I couldn't stop thinking prions, mad cow disease... but I couldn't refuse, it was supposed to be a special treat, I was specifically invited to try something genuine...

 

One taoist thing I can't do is eat a turtle. Many times I almost bought one in Chinatown because they are supposed to nourish your Kidneys and your Liver and your jing and what-not and improve your eyesight and your third eye sight and rejuvenate you and the list goes on and on. But they look so damn sentient. You try to buy one, he makes eye contact with you and transmits a "hell no" right into your cerebellum. Guess I'll never get past that...

Haha you like durians TM? Thats a plus.. that makes you a rare and unique individual among your fellow westerners!

Did you know its packed full of nutrients? And very 'heaty' too, which is why those who are big

into durians, after they have feasted, would also consume a 'cooling' fruit called mangosteen(no relation

to the mango), to ensure that the body remains balanced, ie not overheat! Its amazing how nature provides,

since they are both seasonal fruits, and they both 'season' together!! There are a few interesting videos

on youtube about the 'adventures' of eating durians, some of them are pretty funny!

 

Have you ever heard that the Oriental men are a very odd breed when it comes to eating things considered

bizarre? If they know something is tasty and/or nutritious, they will eat/drink without giving it a second thought.

Turtles, lizards, snakes, squirrels, monkeys, bugs, scorpions, fetuses of animals, all the various internal

organs of animals.. all cooked of course, but the preferred method is always to concoct into a soupy

essence by hours of double-boiling these 'delicacies' with a mixture of herbs. These are mostly a man's

practice though, as its supposed to bring enormous health benefits by increasing Yang Chi and Jing. In

the Far East, there are specialist shops that sell these brews, which are aptly named, in Cantonese,

"Yeh Mey", which translates literally as "Night Dish", meaning something to eat before entering the

Chamber of Passion. (The womenfolk tend to just stick with the herbal concoctions).

 

The menfolk believe that ingesting powder grounded from tigers' penises is nature's answer to Viagra,

swallowing the bile/heart of poisonous snakes gives instant vitality and youthfulness, and eating turtle

meat promotes longevity! Holy moley!

 

Anyway there you go.. the weird and wonderful practices of the Oriental men in their quest for

performance, vitality, youthfulness and immortality!

[baiqi]

Hi all

 

I am answering this thread although it was nearly forsaken...I did not want to open another one for the same topic...

 

So, to put it simply: I have recently become vegetarian, (a few months ago) and I used to enjoy eating meat before...

It was not really linked to my practice of taoism, although you can't really separate anything from it, right? Let's say it came quite naturally as a result of disgust. Disgust from what? Meat? Not in the beginning (it came later though...) Disgust from the whole of the meat industry. The way animals are treated before being slaughtered (which sometimes seems the softest part!),the pollution, the famine in the third world resulting from it...I finally said "no way I take part in this anymore"

 

Maybe if I had lived in older times I would never have become vegetarian. Hunting is ok for me (I don't...), animals are hunting, it is part of nature. But the meat industry, no f###ing way!

 

So about taoism being vegetarian...

I would say not exactly, as a general rule.

 

But taoists should be sensitive to nature, and therefore to animals. Many stories about Lie zi regard animals close to humans, and other stories depict a golden age when people lived in harmony with animals. So even if it is not such a strict rule, let say it is close to it.

 

Besides, the Chinese are eating much more meat than before! And so does any "developed"country.

 

Now with the "daozang" (taoist canon): I kinda don't like this way of putting things. It seems to me dogmatic. Just like some Buddhist ( big influence here...) sects, I feel too individualistic (you may say rebel if you like ) to abide by them: if this book says this, I must do it... However, when I see so many people eating so much meat, destroying their health( at some point you do...), considering animals as "things", just for the pleasure...I'd be glad if these guys believed the words of the Daozang without question!

 

Unfortunately, the real ethics comes from inside, although external rules are useful for immature beings.

 

I cannot condemn meat eaters for the simple reason that I was one not such a long time ago! However, I do recommend people to eat less meat, and even become vegetarians if they can. I'm not making proselytism about religion, "spirituality" and such, but I do it for vegetarianism!

 

This because of what eating meat in an industrial society implies...

 

Let me put it that way: I don't think you are criminal if you eat meat(usually it comes as a normal thing nobody questions), I think you're doing good if you give it up, even partially

(100 good karma points according to my own cult )

 

Be well

[Marblehead]

Hi Baiqi,

 

Yes, this subject is worth reviving periodically.

 

I am not a vegetarian.

 

From the stories of Chuang Tzu we know he ate foul and we can assume that he ate fish. He never spoke of himself eating mammal meat although he does speak about the selling of pig at the market.

 

I do not eat mammal meat unless that is what is being served and I am a guest. I do eat fish and foul. According to Western Medicine I am doing the right thing there.

 

I agree with most of what you said above. Especially concerning the mistreatment of the animals that are being raised for food. Some of the activities can't be called anything but cruel.

 

Peace & Love!

[SFJane]

To the OP, I appreciate that you've brought us some Tao canon. With that said, I thought I might chime in a little on this.

 

I am not a vegetarian. I've tried it. I liked it somewhat. Then I gave it up in fits and starts. My original reason for going veg was about energy vibration. It seemed to me that meat was dead stuff when compared to fresh apples or carrots. You can feel the vibrant chi that is in plant-life. Plants decay slower than animals. (I think.)

 

When I first went veg I definitely felt a little lighter and that I had more energy. At first. After awhile of sticking with it I began to feel hollow and tired. I gradually reintroduced poultry and seafood and I felt solid and energetic again. So I did what a lot of you do. I experimented with how often I needed to introduce meat into my own diet.

 

I still don't eat beef. I just can't bring myself to try it again. It's been 15 years roughly and I don't miss it. I can't stand the smell of it raw or cooked. There are a lot of problems with our modern food supply when it comes to factory farming and animal husbandry.

 

With that said, I don't have moral problems with killing animals for food. Morals and hunger do not mix well in the arena of life especially if you happen to have little or no choice. (Which may have been the case in ancient times for humans.)Taoism asks us to witness and really apprehend what is going on with reality. When we observe nature doing it's thing, the consumption of lifeforms by other lifeforms is completely natural and ordered under the universe.

 

In fact I rather like watching animals eat because feeding is just raw primal intestinal pleasure. I think the dance of life and death when it comes to animals eating animals is really beautiful underneath all the trauma and violence. Spiders, sharks, lions, birds of prey, praying mantises, jellyfish. They each have a wonderful evolutionary strategy in order to feed themselves.

 

Some of the earliest human settlements are on the coast of Africa and shellfish remains are invariably found in their midden heaps. Science has shown that humans are very well set up for eating a wide variety of food. When crops fail and there are plant blights, we can eat meat. If meat is scarce then we can forage.

 

The biggest reason to not eat meat, to me anyway, both now and in ancient times, comes down to health. Humans can eat rotten fruit and veges and be ok. If we eat rotten meat we can become quite sick in a hurry, not to mention get infestations of worms or other parasites. It's probably a lot harder to sit in meditation and cultivate chi when you are dealing with multiple, energy-draining rounds of bloody diarrhea. So there is a wisdom to keeping your diet vege-full, mostly. I know I operate better when I eat meat sometimes. I love seafood more than any other food.

 

One of the best crabs I ever had I bought live from an Asian market. I studied the crab tank and I took the mightiest crab I could find that was bullying the other crabs and I decided I wanted his Chi in my system. So I picked him out and boiled him with an almost Naavi-like reverence for taking his life and then I fed on him and could feel that even dead, his lifeforce was still there a little bit, just like plants, and that I was absorbing it because it was a fresh kill, which is what a lot of animals are getting when they kill.

 

I think eating meat is the way of the Tao. Why should it be so with every predator in the world and not with humans? Armchair philosophy or health? Nor do I have any problem with wearing animal skins. I used to think it was repugnant but I've changed. What, you are going to eat the meat and abandon the hide? Waste not want not. The only reason hunting and animal husbandry is unsustainable is due to gluttony and over farming/fishing in order to make these foods available to everyone in developed countries. So by all means please go veg so that I can eat your serving of fish and fowl.

 

edit: About animal skins. Isn't it swell that modern fabric making allows us to apply highfalutin moral yardsticks and self righteousness when it comes to clothing? Take a look at what Otzi was wearing about five thousand years ago.

Edited March 23, 2010 by SFJane

[Birch]

prawns = underwater insects

 

Except maybe not. Do people eat landcrabs?

 

I'm always fascinated by prescriptions on what to eat vs what not to eat. I'm almost sure that some of those are similar to the tied up monastery cat story. Maybe others to do with killing methods (more dangerous for who?) others to do with conservation methods and still others to do with chi methods. While we're on this, there are still many people around the world who have food spoil too fast on them. If I could find the underground cooler I would link to it.

 

I was vegetarian for a while because my compassion and insight meditations demanded it. Or maybe I just couldn't bear to be with myself as a killer. Something of either or both of those orders.

 

Then I realised I was actually doing myself physical harm. I was a very bad vegetarian. I didn't do half the stuff one is supposed to do to remain healthy as a vegetarian. So I went back to the occasional piece of meat. If possible game or grass fed. Trying to get around the labels per the latter is a real game. Short of visiting the places and farms where the animals are to judge for myself. Should be next on my list.

 

When I lived in Chinatown I would go to the supermarkets and buy things I didn't understand how to cook;-)

[Bum Grasshopper]

I read somewhere that like 80% of all plant life is poisonous to humans if ingested. I can't think of any mammal or bird that will kill you if eaten. Maybe a very few species of fish or amphibian.

[gendao]

Have you ever heard that the Oriental men are a very odd breed when it comes to eating things considered bizarre? If they know something is tasty and/or nutritious, they will eat/drink without giving it a second thought. Turtles, lizards, snakes, squirrels, monkeys, bugs, scorpions, fetuses of animals, all the various internal organs of animals.. all cooked of course, but the preferred method is always to concoct into a soupy essence by hours of double-boiling these 'delicacies' with a mixture of herbs. These are mostly a man's practice though, as its supposed to bring enormous health benefits by increasing Yang Chi and Jing. In the Far East, there are specialist shops that sell these brews, which are aptly named, in Cantonese, "Yeh Mey", which translates literally as "Night Dish", meaning something to eat before entering the Chamber of Passion. (The womenfolk tend to just stick with the herbal concoctions).

 

The menfolk believe that ingesting powder grounded from tigers' penises is nature's answer to Viagra, swallowing the bile/heart of poisonous snakes gives instant vitality and youthfulness, and eating turtle meat promotes longevity! Holy moley!

Well, eating Fear Factor cuisine applies more to the Cantonese, in particular. As the old saying goes:

The Cantonese will eat anything with four legs except a table, anything that moves on the ground except trains, anything that moves in the water except boats and anything that flies except an airplane.

Edited March 23, 2010 by vortex

[genmaicha]

The biggest reason to not eat meat, to me anyway, both now and in ancient times, comes down to health. Humans can eat rotten fruit and veges and be ok. If we eat rotten meat we can become quite sick in a hurry, not to mention get infestations of worms or other parasites.

 

I'm not so sure about this.

Check here: