Qi Dao - Lama Somananda Tantrapa

[freeform]

Lama Tantrapa has a great internet talk show, with many famous and inspiring teachers/healers being interviewed. That's at least worthy of respect. Plus, he made his book (whether it's good or bad in your opinion) free on google, so that you can judge it before buying. That's also very worthy of respect.

 

Agreed.

 

And Orb, It's easy, as a nameless, faceless member of an internet forum to assign yourself the position of an all-mighty judge.

[Mal]

I would like to invite you to listen to other fine Qigong masters and authors at www.blogtalkradio.com/qigongmasters. Please enjoy the interviews with Mantak Chia, Ken Cohen, Roger Jahnke, Yang Jwing-Ming, Jerry Alan Johnson, Effie Chow, Michael Winn, Bruce Kumar Frantzis, Chunyi Lin, and dozens of other Qigong experts.

 

Greetings Lama Tantrapa.

 

I enjoyed your interview with Jerry Alan Johnson, it was linked in another thread here. I felt things went a bit off track in it when God and Christian ideas were mentioned. I use to have a strong aversion to God from my upbringing, till I met some great Christians. Although I can also understand, from the perspective you mentioned, wanting to use a different framework for your listeners.

 

Anyhow it's easy to be critical on points. I also thought it was excellent to see someone putting the time and effort into doing such interviews, and then presenting them so people all over the world could hear them. So thank you for your radio show. I didn't know the book was on google, I'll have to have a look at that too.

 

p.s. I'm sure you don't need the help but things can get a little boisterous here on the 'bums. Engage at your peril I recommend stealth and evasion while they battle each other

[Mal]

Sorry Craig, I hit edit instead of quote reply and I've lost your post. Really sorry didn't mean to. My only excuse is it's 2:45 am and I'm up listening to hourly weather reports as cat 3 cyclone Ulil crosses the coast 235 kilometers east southeast of here. While this town is probably going to be o.k. 200km/h winds are not going to be doing those closer much good at all

 

So sorry again, this is all I've got left re the lama title not being answered in previous threads.

 

So, it's still a fair question.

Craig

 

In about the author in his book it appears to be a family lineage of 27 generations and primarily trained by his grandfather, plus other stuff (I'm not really motivated to research lineages myself)

 

While people are free to ask whatever they like, as long as it's not insulting, is any answer going to be able to satisfy everyone? Given past trends such an outcome seems highly unlikely

[Sunya]

Just like you don't have a problem with Fake Lamas (i.e. Tantrapa and Max) I don't a problem bashing the fake lamas. Actually I think they need to be laughed at until they quit - because they are fake gurus in my opinion. A lot of knowledge is hidden and divided amongst few people in this world. Lately a lot of it came out, but it's still very difficult to obtain it because you have to find it and sometimes pay a lot of money or even risk your life to get it. And then you have the BS gurus that only have basic surface knowledge and make a business out of it.

And no, they don't have to live up to the title because you guys don't have any problems with their titles so they actually get a lot more credit then the real masters. Do you know that John Chang was so poor at one point that he didn't have anything to eat for a long time ?

While these mofos are having talkshows and call themselves lamas!!! Talk shows with whom? Michael Winn and Mantak Chia who are going to teach you how to smile like the greeters from Walmart and call it a "secret smile" ? Bruce Kumar Frantzis who is pushing nerds and women on youtube and calls it fa jin or Chunyi Lin who produces great spiritual beings like Drew here on the taobums?

 

I'm just sayin....

 

 

lmfao :D

[Sunya]

Agreed.

 

And Orb, It's easy, as a nameless, faceless member of an internet forum to assign yourself the position of an all-mighty judge.

 

 

No, freeform, that's the wrong attitude. We all have a right to be skeptical about teachers and question their qualifications. There are way too many disingenuous people out there; spiritual folks trust too easily and fake teachers rely on that. I'm not calling Tantrapa fake, but I question why he would need to call himself Lama when he doesn't teach Tibetan Buddhism and isn't part of a lineage. If you're a true master, a real teacher, then why would you need a title? Isn't the proof in the pudding? If you truly have it, why would external things like a title even matter? This is why he seems disingenuous me.

[Aetherous]

Just like you don't have a problem with Fake Lamas (i.e. Tantrapa and Max) I don't a problem bashing the fake lamas.

 

I don't actually have a problem with you doing that. It's just not a healthy way to be...it doesn't help you in your own growth. But it's all good.

[VCraigP]

Sorry Craig, I hit edit instead of quote reply and I've lost your post. Really sorry didn't mean to. My only excuse is it's 2:45 am and I'm up listening to hourly weather reports as cat 3 cyclone Ulil crosses the coast 235 kilometers east southeast of here. While this town is probably going to be o.k. 200km/h winds are not going to be doing those closer much good at all

 

So sorry again, this is all I've got left re the lama title not being answered in previous threads.

 

 

 

In about the author in his book it appears to be a family lineage of 27 generations and primarily trained by his grandfather, plus other stuff (I'm not really motivated to research lineages myself)

 

While people are free to ask whatever they like, as long as it's not insulting, is any answer going to be able to satisfy everyone? Given past trends such an outcome seems highly unlikely

 

 

Oh man, I had my snarky meter pegged when I wrote that...

 

Now I have lost my motivation. Stay safe Mal. Quiet and sunny here in the great Northwest.

 

Craig

[VCraigP]

No, freeform, that's the wrong attitude. We all have a right to be skeptical about teachers and question their qualifications. There are way too many disingenuous people out there; spiritual folks trust too easily and fake teachers rely on that. I'm not calling Tantrapa fake, but I question why he would need to call himself Lama when he doesn't teach Tibetan Buddhism and isn't part of a lineage. If you're a true master, a real teacher, then why would you need a title? Isn't the proof in the pudding? If you truly have it, why would external things like a title even matter? This is why he seems disingenuous me.

 

I have to agree in part here. Tantrapa never addressed why the assumption of the title Lama, which has very specific meaning. Why no explanation of the title. If it was explained, my apologies but I missed it.

 

Craig

[Pero]

I think he did talk about it somewhere here, but I can't remember what he said.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I browsed through a thread we had a while ago on him, and in one of his posts he said he had the book for free on google books. I read it, and it really vibed with me. So I went out and bought the book, and I read it over from time to time. I find a lot of what he says is stuff I personally have come to believe, or things that I have easily been able to integrate into my practice (I've always enjoyed lucid dreaming, so the parallels he makes with dream states really appealed to me). He teaches some exercises in the book, including some arm swings which reminds me of some stuff that B.K. Frantzis teaches (so is there validity in similarity?)

 

As for the names and stuff.... eh, when I was younger (early teens) I was conned by some martial arts mcdojos, people who said they could teach me how to fight when really they were just luring me in with the name of a certain style. After that I became really adamant about finding out a verifiable lineage and only studying with or from people who could prove that they learned from a legitimate branch of something.

 

But after a while I started to find more and more stuff that either didn't have a verifiable lineage, or was *gasp* something someone had come up with on their own! Some of it vibed with me, some of it didn't. The stuff that did I started to incorporate.

 

So.... for me, personally, I'm caring less and less about someone's name or where it came from, so long as it fits me.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Mal]

Lineage is important and it is easy to say "Master X made me a Master" So I understand where wanting to verify that is coming from.

 

But

But after a while I started to find more and more stuff that either didn't have a verifiable lineage, or was *gasp* something someone had come up with on their own! Some of it vibed with me, some of it didn't. The stuff that did I started to incorporate.

That vibes with me too I've learnt things from people that definitely were insane (i.e. locked away in institutions) they can have an interesting perspective and world view.

 

 

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/vagabond-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+03&page=65

[Sloppy Zhang]

That vibes with me too I've learnt things from people that definitely were insane (i.e. locked away in institutions) they can have an interesting perspective and world view.

 

Funny you say that, sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy

 

And Vagabond is great.

[Mal]

Guess it was a one shot just for us. I went back to insert 2 more panels so the story would be a bit fuller and now the image link doesn't seem to work

 

edit and now it is working more oh well stranger things will happen.

[Dreamingawake]

I suspect the reason people get worked up is that to get a title one must, as several people said, be apart of, and gain a certain level of competency within that lineage/structure. If someone claims a title they are claiming to have that experience/expertise/qualification. Claiming a title you don't have is fraud and anyone with common sense will likely be quite wary of a teacher with a habit of lying.

 

As has been said, titles denote very specific qualifications and experiences so for instance studying a little known hindu path in india then claiming to be maoshan because people recognize the name so you can get students would qualify is bullshit (official term).

 

Personally, some of my favorite teachers claim no titles at all. They still have a lot to teach and are quite powerful. If I wanted specific knowledge from a lineage then I would look for solid credentials. I'm not saying Tantrapa is/isn't a real lama or that he should/shouldn't be treated as such. Just clarifying a pint of view.

[Sloppy Zhang]

As has been said, titles denote very specific qualifications and experiences so for instance studying a little known hindu path in india then claiming to be maoshan because people recognize the name so you can get students would qualify is bullshit (official term).

 

So what happens when Mr. Miyagi signs you up for a black belt level tournament even though Mr. Miyagi doesn't do a belt ranking system?

 

Guess it was a one shot just for us. I went back to insert 2 more panels so the story would be a bit fuller and now the image link doesn't seem to work

Posted Image

 

Yeah, that's too bad.

 

For anyone willing to give it a look, Vagabond, though a comic book series featuring a fictionalized version of the life of Miyamoto Musashi, has a lot of good points of wisdom in it, and has served as a great source of inspiration and insight, in an entertaining format to boot

Edited March 21, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Mal]

So what happens when Mr. Miyagi signs you up for a black belt level tournament even though Mr. Miyagi doesn't do a belt ranking system?

 

and then you have the audacity to go and win said title fight

[Dreamingawake]

I would say that 'black belt' is a term used to denote a skill level, but it's also much less specific. Comparing black belt to lama is like comparing bachelors degree to psychologist. You can get a bachelors/ black belt in many different fields of endeavor but calling your self a psychologist/lama is a claim to have a very particular set of skills and qualifications within a very specific field of study.

 

Also Mr. Miyagi taught (supposedly within the film) Okinawan Karate which does use a belt system. He simply hadn't bothered to assign Daniel-san any particular belt since he didn't really care about that very much. He just didn't want the poor boy to go through the rest of his life getting his ass whooped by arrogant pricks.

 

Hope that helps.

[freeform]

 

 

 

You guys have a good point.

 

For me, personally, titles mean very little - I go by my intuition in the moment - but that's just me.

 

"Lama" doesn't mean much to me to be honest... I treat titles as general indications. A Dr may or may not be able to save my life - it all depends on the individual and the moment in time - it rarely depends on the title. A policeman may or may not be trying to keep me safe - it depends on the person and the moment in time...

 

Many hustlers use our dependancy on titles and appearances - you're much more likely to hand over your car keys to a 'policeman' than a 'vagrant', but if you keep in the moment and don't let your 'thinking' cloud your intuition you'll be able to see the person behind the title - and that's where the real gem hides.

 

Our minds can easily convince us that the map really is the territory - but on a good day I treat a map as just an indication of the territory.

[Apech]

For me its no so much a question of what Lama means or what it means to me - the question is why would anyone who is not actually a Lama want to call themselves a Lama? What advantage is it to them or anyone? Is it, dare I say it, part of some kind of marketing package, to sex up your practice so that more people will be interested (and consequently be willing the pay more)?

 

The same goes for the over estimating of lineages and so on. What is the point of it? What advantage does it bring? What is the motivation? Commercial or otherwise?

Edited March 21, 2010 by apepch7

[Creation]

Lama Tantrapa,

 

Your show is a great service to cultivators. I have listened to and thoroughly enjoyed many episodes.

 

Thank you.

[Nilo]

I enjoy Lama's radio show and think he is a nice guy but sometimes Lama does go on weird tangents in the interviews. It's all good though we are all unique.

[orb]

Agreed.

 

And Orb, It's easy, as a nameless, faceless member of an internet forum to assign yourself the position of an all-mighty judge.

 

Mr. Freeform,

 

I am expressing my views, just like you are expressing yours. And how is my faceless, nameless position different then yours. You want to talk to me face to face PM me and we'll talk. I talk to a lot of members on this forum directly and a lot of them are my dear friends that I respect and learn from. I don't know you so I can't judge you but I can criticise your comments if I have a different opinion. And if you can prove me wrong - more power to you. I will take it.

So I'm waiting on your P.M.

[Mal]

I really, really, really wanted to respond to that, I had such a "nice" reply too, but I'm sure I must be misreading the intent.

 

Anyhow if anyone wants to talk to me I'm over there

<-

 

[Procurator]

 

While these mofos are having talkshows and call themselves lamas!!! Talk shows with whom? Michael Winn and Mantak Chia who are going to teach you how to smile like the greeters from Walmart and call it a "secret smile" ? Bruce Kumar Frantzis who is pushing nerds and women on youtube and calls it fa jin or Chunyi Lin who produces great spiritual beings like Drew here on the taobums?

 

I'm just sayin....

I hear you:). The problem is not these fakes per se, its those who pays them. Folks like to be had, its their nature.

[freeform]

Mr. Freeform,

 

I am expressing my views, just like you are expressing yours. And how is my faceless, nameless position different then yours. You want to talk to me face to face PM me and we'll talk. I talk to a lot of members on this forum directly and a lot of them are my dear friends that I respect and learn from. I don't know you so I can't judge you but I can criticise your comments if I have a different opinion. And if you can prove me wrong - more power to you. I will take it.

So I'm waiting on your P.M.

 

I like to go to a life-drawing class sometimes... The teacher walks around and comments on our work... Sometimes she comes over and tells me 'that's really good'... sometimes she says 'that looks terrible' - she's very direct which is fine.

 

What makes her judgement of value to me is that she can demonstrate her expertise... sometimes when she sees a mistake, she draws a little sketch in seconds that looks better than the sketch I made in 15 minutes, explaining what I had done incorrectly.

 

So when she gives her judgement it is information rich because she demonstrates a level of expertise, experience and refinement much greater than my own in this particular field.

 

I don't know your level of expertise in this field... the people you denounce all have a lot of expertise - whether you or I subscribe to their methods or not. So that's what I mean - you are yet to demonstrate the value of your judgement... you may well be more experienced than all of these people put together, but I haven't seen evidence for that.

 

Another thing... an opinion is not a judgement... an opinion is more about you than it is about what you're giving an opinion on. Sometimes I go around the life-drawing class and look at what the others have produced... I see a very accurate, technical drawing of the model, everything looks correct, but I say 'I don't like it'... 'I prefer that one' - pointing to a looser drawing that in a few elegant lines describes the the model. This opinion gives you more information about my tastes in drawing than on the aptitude of the drawers...

 

So if you want your posts to be more meaningful to me and to others (I assume) then:

 

1) Consider giving actual opinions - which usually start with "I" (rather than "He" or "She") - eg. "I don't like Mantak's system"...

 

2) Qualify your judgements - "After 18 years practising such and such I find no value in Teacher X's work"

 

This way not only would this be a kinder place for people of all levels of experience to come to and share, but your posts would also really help and contribute to the discussion, rather than just being 'noise' devoid of any value.