The power of Internal Martial Arts

[DaoChild]

The important thing to remember about these two (MMA v TMA) is the training involved. I don't care if you practice any martial art for 10 years, if you don't use STRESS in training, and full contact training sparring at some point - any mma/combat trained fighter will have his way with you. And this is coming from someone who is full 100% for traditional martial arts. If you don't train for combat, it will be a sore awakening the day when you get punched in the face.

 

That's why you hear about all these 'black belts' getting the crap kicked out of them. They have no sparring, contact, and high-stress experience. The closer you can train to full-speed combat, the better you will be. There is no MMA Vs TMA which is better - it's how you train. The silly argument originated over the fact that most MMA practitioners train for the ring - where you need conditioning, and you need full contact sparring.

 

Both those were originally included in 'true' gongfu schools that trained practitioners to fight. You seldom see that in traditional martial arts schools nowadays.

[h.uriahr]

Remember when John Chang let Mike Tyson attack Him full force for almost 20 minutes straight ?

 

Yeah he was knocked out from Pak John right after with only a touch hahahahaha. MMA is for fools and to compare it to traditional gongfu is a disgrace.

 

John is the exception not the rule. I cant recall ever hearing that story in the papers. I wonder why? You'll never witness an IMA practitioner stopping an MMA practitioner because it takes a real teacher to show someone how to make an IMA effective.

 

chi blasters vs normal bjj practitioners

 

totally awesome master vs nobody

 

An exceptional ABOVE AVERAGE INSANELY DEDICATED practitioner of an IMA of course will mess up anybody who decides to fight him. John Chang is the exception however and not the rule. If you were to take an average mma practitioner and walk him into tai chi studio after studio he would win everytime until facing someone on par with John.

 

I'd appreciate a reference on Tyson vs Chang, I dont recall seeing that on ESPN.

[Adj]

Are there any hardcore xingyiquan people around here? People say that xingyiquan is one of the quickest of the internal styles to put into effect, with the saying that "tai chi stays in the practice hall for 10 years, while xingyi kills in one" and a lot of xingyi people really try to distance themselves from the image of "internal arts", that it's not all flowers and sunshine like all the tai chi hippies say internal arts are

 

Not to say we should be going around killing people but is there anyone here who trains with it seriously with a serious teacher and has seen its effectiveness first hand?

 

As someone who doesn't practice it, but has seen it and read a bit about it, it seems really cool how you can use internal power in a direct sort of "no nonsense" way, but then I look at my friend who has studied karate with a master from Okinawa for 6 years, he's got about 70 lbs on me, and his arms are three times the width of mine and I go "uh...... I think that evasion and running away would be better than trying to hit him with a bengquan...."

 

 

I specialize in Xing Yi.

 

I also practice the externals and have noticed a significant improvement to my power and speed after seriously studying and training in Xing Yi.

 

At first its kind of useless but when you begin the two person sets, the flow fighting, then the sparing, then it all starts making sense and falling into place and really becomes a simple and brutally effective MA.

 

IMO it is the fastest learning and most applicable Martial art available. That could be why Yui fei had his soldiers taught it and it was amazingly successful against mind boggling odds. Unfortunately it is unpopular cause it looks so boring and only has 5 techniques. (the 12 animals are just variations from the 5 elements)

 

As you work more into the linking sets and the animal styles you begin to learn to manifest your 5 techniques differently and to handle all sorts of situations. High level Xing Yi in COMBAT looks a lot like BaGua or even sometimes Tai Chi. Often it is mistaken for other MA in combat. It can look very evasive at times depending on the opponent, especially if they are larger. It is YANG in INTENTION but not exactly yang in how the technique manifests. That is the big misconception.

 

Xing Yi is an internal martial art and is focused on combing your will and your intention to manifest the correct action at the right time in the form of one of the five elements.

 

or....

 

Xing yi is a Nei gong focused on combining your xin and your yi to create a state of wu wei which the techniques manifest in one of the five elements.

 

Edited to add:

 

A friend of mine is big into BJJ and he likes to goof around and try stuff with people. He grabbed me once to do something and I simply placed a finger on his throat and pushed him off of me causing him to grasp his throat and gasp for air.(this is a WATER manisfestation from the Shwan chuan technique) I then closed my left hand into a mind fist hand formation (index knuckle extended) and nailed him in the gut with very simple Xing yi strike, beng chuan. It was effortless for me, but dropped him on the floor wheezing for air in less than a second.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Adj

[h.uriahr]

I specialize in Xing Yi.

 

I also practice the externals and have noticed a significant improvement to my power and speed after seriously studying and training in Xing Yi.

 

At first its kind of useless but when you begin the two person sets, the flow fighting, then the sparing, then it all starts making sense and falling into place and really becomes a simple and brutally effective MA.

 

IMO it is the fastest learning and most applicable Martial art available. That could be why Yui fei had his soldiers taught it and it was amazingly successful against mind boggling odds. Unfortunately it is unpopular cause it looks so boring and only has 5 techniques. (the 12 animals are just variations from the 5 elements)

 

As you work more into the linking sets and the animal styles you begin to learn to manifest your 5 techniques differently and to handle all sorts of situations. High level Xing Yi in COMBAT looks a lot like BaGua or even sometimes Tai Chi. Often it is mistaken for other MA in combat. It can look very evasive at times depending on the opponent, especially if they are larger. It is YANG in INTENTION but not exactly yang in how the technique manifests. That is the big misconception.

 

Xing Yi is an internal martial art and is focused on combing your will and your intention to manifest the correct action at the right time in the form of one of the five elements.

 

or....

 

Xing yi is a Nei gong focused on combining your xin and your yi to create a state of wu wei which the techniques manifest in one of the five elements.

 

Edited to add:

 

A friend of mine is big into BJJ and he likes to goof around and try stuff with people. He grabbed me once to do something and I simply placed a finger on his throat and pushed him off of me causing him to grasp his throat and gasp for air.(this is a WATER manisfestation from the Shwan chuan technique) I then closed my left hand into a mind fist hand formation (index knuckle extended) and nailed him in the gut with very simple Xing yi strike, beng chuan. It was effortless for me, but dropped him on the floor wheezing for air in less than a second.

 

Goofing around doesnt mean it's effective. There are other factors as well like the first one is goofing around, the second is big into bjj could mean big like a star trekkie junky, that doesnt mean he's good, third is overall strength and athleticism, if you are 6ft and a heavyweight but hes 5ft then obviously an effortless strike by you would hurt him.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I specialize in Xing Yi.

 

I also practice the externals and have noticed a significant improvement to my power and speed after seriously studying and training in Xing Yi.

 

At first its kind of useless but when you begin the two person sets, the flow fighting, then the sparing, then it all starts making sense and falling into place and really becomes a simple and brutally effective MA.

 

IMO it is the fastest learning and most applicable Martial art available. That could be why Yui fei had his soldiers taught it and it was amazingly successful against mind boggling odds. Unfortunately it is unpopular cause it looks so boring and only has 5 techniques. (the 12 animals are just variations from the 5 elements)

 

As you work more into the linking sets and the animal styles you begin to learn to manifest your 5 techniques differently and to handle all sorts of situations. High level Xing Yi in COMBAT looks a lot like BaGua or even sometimes Tai Chi. Often it is mistaken for other MA in combat. It can look very evasive at times depending on the opponent, especially if they are larger. It is YANG in INTENTION but not exactly yang in how the technique manifests. That is the big misconception.

 

Xing Yi is an internal martial art and is focused on combing your will and your intention to manifest the correct action at the right time in the form of one of the five elements.

 

or....

 

Xing yi is a Nei gong focused on combining your xin and your yi to create a state of wu wei which the techniques manifest in one of the five elements.

 

Thanks for that very clear explanation!

[Adj]

Thanks for that very clear explanation!

 

 

You're welcome.

 

I have found that with knowledge of other MA aid in training in Xing yi specifically when used in combat because you learn to give power to regular techniques. Thats why Xing Yi is sometimes prerequisite to more complex and flexible styles such as Ba gua and Tai Chi.

 

However Xing Yi as a whole, is brutally effective and if taught to people who are TOO passive or too YIN with their personality this will give them more balance. When I am tired or sleepy I practice about 10 minutes of this and I wake up to a high level of alertness.

 

 

Bagua is great for people with thinking that is too rigid. It will open your mind! Tai Chi is used if your personality is too YANG. When your body or mind is stressed, it is too Yang, for example.

 

If you can find one or have the money an experienced internal Chinese martial artist will teach you a specific internal style to balance out your personality.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Adj

[Spectrum]

 

chi blasters vs normal bjj practitioners

 

totally awesome master vs nobody

 

More examples of living in an imagination world.

[Sloppy Zhang]

More examples of living in an imagination world.

 

no wai guyz u dunno wut u r talkin about the yellow bamboo guyz didnt want 2 kill sum1 on kamera tey did nut wan 2 kill n e 1 period them bjj n00bz shood be happi they r alive in a reel fite the bjj gai wood die

 

(that was a joke guyz)

Edited February 17, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[r.w.smith]

Its not wise to judge a system on the actions of a westerner who went to bali for 1 or 2 weeks & comes back thinking hes the man. Yellow bamboo training methods are very good if done fore a long time. even if you had level 2 mopai in the same situation you would have same result if he just stood there.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Mattimo]

And another one:

 

 

Chen style Tai Chi.

 

ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. This one of the most amazing videos I have ever seen.

[BrokenFist64]

Sorry if this has been posted before some where in this thread ( hard to keep track of which vids I watched and didnt watch )

 

Here are 2 vids of a seminar showing chen tai chi applications at an mma gym.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWBBhVLbDgk

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5NIfrnJs...feature=related

 

enjoy

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[orb]

One of the best teachers of Tai Chi today: Chen Yun San. He worked as a bodyguard for the son of the former President of Taiwan.

 

Video:

 

http://www.wretch.cc/album/show.php?i=marp...2799966&p=0

Tai Chi is very high level of IMA but only a few have grasped its depth.

 

 

That looked more like child abuse and mistreatment......

Edited May 5, 2009 by orb

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[minkus]

And more vids here, this time with the Hongkongnese Wang Bo:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29OJCETl0c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6b_fL6B4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP87atocis0

 

Ty ty ty for posting these, never seen these vid's and i really like the guy

 

Regards !

[orb]

Well with comments like this and only one for this last video it shows that this forum is definitively going downhill.

 

Pretty sad, orb:

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From the "real martial arts" point of view this forum has been pretty bad already, otherwise it's a great forum.

 

Also it's sad for me to see posts like yours submitted by people who obviously never been under a real attack in a real life situation. You can call your videos whatever you want but that's not a real attack and therefore not a real defense response. Go get a reality check sir and snap out of the imaginary world of taoist stories and fairy tales

[minkus]

From the "real martial arts" point of view this forum has been pretty bad already, otherwise it's a great forum.

 

Also it's sad for me to see posts like yours submitted by people who obviously never been under a real attack in a real life situation. You can call your videos whatever you want but that's not a real attack and therefore not a real defense response. Go get a reality check sir and snap out of the imaginary world of taoist stories and fairy tales

 

IMA forum is more like emptyflower or the chenwired forum orso yeh.

 

Also the video you commented on this teacher is really good, pure Chen. If you ever see him fighting an attacker in a real life situation it would be really boring. I guess the fight will last for a full 2 seconds before a spine or neck is broken

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Squatting Monkey]

I've trained with Alex Kozma also. This man knows his stuff.

You don't travel back and forward to Asia for 25 years seeking out internal masters for nothing.

[orb]

 

Btw, who are you? Show me your credentials. I am looking forward to check them out.

 

I am nobody and I don't have any credentials. It's just that I am very convinced that Taichi and Bagua and Xing yi are ineficient in combat and whatever I see in your videos confirms that and is useless from a real fight point of view. Now if you are convinced of the opposite and you got something to show me PM me please and I'll come and meet you.

 

Also I never said I didn't like Taobums - I think this is the best forum around, however from a combat point of view it's usually pretty ridiculous.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I am nobody and I don't have any credentials. It's just that I am very convinced that Taichi and Bagua and Xing yi are ineficient in combat and whatever I see in your videos confirms that and is useless from a real fight point of view. Now if you are convinced of the opposite and you got something to show me PM me please and I'll come and meet you.

 

Also I never said I didn't like Taobums - I think this is the best forum around, however from a combat point of view it's usually pretty ridiculous.

 

It's true that IMA has its share of.... shall we say, less than competent fighters, and less than realistic training.

 

But what system doesn't? Karate, TKD, all of these got tons of bad people in them after becoming popular. IMA gets hit harder because of the new age hippies wanting to find some "meld with the universe" moving meditation. Heck, now that BJJ has gotten popular, there are some bad teachers in that system too, people rolling around on the floor humping each other thinking they can become the next Royce Gracie.

 

But traditionally taught IMA is just as good as any other of the popular "effective styles" you see around today. Plenty of conditioning, sparring, practical combat applications. Just because YOU haven't trained in it, and just because there's not a video of it at your fingertips, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Most IMA masters concur that there aren't a lot of high level IMA masters in the world today that can use what they have in a fight, but again, that's due to the people who want to train IMA in the modern world. So it's not like you're gonna go down to your local gym and find a Xingyiquan master hitting the heavy bag you're gonna have to go to China or Taiwan, or places that have a high Asian population density, because that's where those masters are from and that's typically where they live and teach. Unless you're lucky to have a master come do a seminar or move next door.

 

Don't be so ignorant as to judge a style (especially one that you haven't trained in!) based on some videos around the net... that's just sad.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[minkus]

Mistake, delete plz

Edited May 7, 2009 by minkus