Spontaneous Movement : Form and Formless

[Cameron]

--

Edited February 23, 2009 by Cameron

[Spectrum]

Ok, I can't take it anymore.

 

That's the spirit Cam. Accidents happen.

 

Here is video of a Wudang "form" (a prearranged cooreography) Fu, I wonder what type of information is being transmitted here.

 

You'll see a spontaneous adjustment at 00:15 ...

 

u6ealFUTLus

Edited February 22, 2009 by Spectrum

[林愛偉]

There is no such thing as formed formlessness. The form movement practice is simple a practice where one was not previous taught the formlessness they are moving through.

With form, there is formless. Notice the form and you have noticed the formless. Notice the formless, you thus recognize that which is has form.

It is paradoxial, because one holds to formlessness, the form dissapears. Because one holds to form, the formless appears.

 

 

 

Considering this carefully. Putting yourself in a neutral position to act decisively seems to have the most potential for spontaneously addressing.

 

 

Spontaneity has its gradual process in getting there. It only seems to be sudden/spontaneous because there seems to have been no movement before. In actuality, nothing is not moving.Everything moves and not moves.

 

Holding to formlessness is holding onto something. To be formless, a view of that state can not arise. True form and formless is the absence of form and formlessness.

 

When you see forms, you see that there is a space empty, no form, but that empty/formless space has a shape. If it didn't, how can one recognize form?

 

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

That's the spirit Cam. Accidents happen.

 

Here is video of a Wudang "form" (a prearranged cooreography) Fu, I wonder what type of information is being transmitted here.

 

You'll see a spontaneous adjustment at 00:15 ...

 

u6ealFUTLus

 

 

He almost tripped! Hopped so he wouldn't fall. Can't take everything as a "mysterious", "energy" thing.

 

His body weight distribution was moving too far right and he didn't sink his hips to have enough root. What was transmitted was important; Make sure you have root when demonstrating in front of so many people. Everyone makes a mistake sometimes.

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited February 22, 2009 by 林愛偉

[rain]

Spontaneity has its gradual process in getting there.

 

 

Everyone makes a mistake sometimes.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

Here's the key.

 

contemplate - "mistake".

 

[freeform]

ok ok ok... here it is - my last Kunlun group practice:

 

ohmhZVjaqQo

[Cameron]

--

Edited February 23, 2009 by Cameron

[freeform]

[Ya Mu]

...

The question remains, whether spontaneous movements practiced by their own could be detrimental to practice/health? At least this is how I understand what Ape says.

 

Although I am not familiar with the "Kunlun" other than the Kunlun Mountain area (is this where this "form" comes from?), if it is anything like Stillness-Movement then the answer to the above is no. The practice of Stillness-Movement alone brings about awesome positive changes in health. To me it is far more powerful at bringing about the positive health changes than any "movement form" I have tried (and I have tried a whole lot of them). I think the movement has its place and have even developed the Gift of the Tao movement form as a complementary qigong. My observations are that as far as energy goes, the Stillness-Movement is more powerful but that the movement forms can be good for particular body oriented health benefits such as shoulders, low back, etc.

 

There is no such thing as a formless form. The "formless" movement practices is simply a practice where one was not previously taught the form they are moving through.

 

Taiji Quan started this way. The only thing "special" about the "formless" form movement is at the timeyou do it, you reap benefits, after that time, if you try to do the exact same moves again, you have defeated the purpose of "spontaneous" movement.

 

With formless, there is form. Notice the formless and you have noticed the form. Notice the form, you thus recognize that which has no form.

 

"Emptiness is form, form is emptiness." Its not a riddle of the Heart Sutra, it is simple; because one holds to forms, the formless appears. Because one holds to formlessness the forms appear.

 

You want real spontaneity, put an end to your views of forms and formlessness!

 

Physical movement on the other hand is only spontaneous when there was no physical movement prior to that,

otherwise, the only true spontaneous movement is that where not even a thought arose and not even a movement manifested.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

Good post.

I have really never considered the Stllness-Movement a "spontaneous form". To me it has always been just "qigong", as it has, to me, always been the essence of qigong. To even call it a "form" is simply a label that can be used by agreement, so as to call it something.

No one can practice it without arriving at Stillness then allowing Movement and Stillness can not be arrived at when considering anything that can be talked about because the very discussion can not be made in Stillness as it utilizes the linear, brain oriented self. So for it to be posted as something someone could learn from or evaluate has no value as it must come from within.

[林愛偉]

Although I am not familiar with the "Kunlun" other than the Kunlun Mountain area (is this where this "form" comes from?), if it is anything like Stillness-Movement then the answer to the above is no. The practice of Stillness-Movement alone brings about awesome positive changes in health. To me it is far more powerful at bringing about the positive health changes than any "movement form" I have tried (and I have tried a whole lot of them). I think the movement has its place and have even developed the Gift of the Tao movement form as a complementary qigong. My observations are that as far as energy goes, the Stillness-Movement is more powerful but that the movement forms can be good for particular body oriented health benefits such as shoulders, low back, etc.

Good post.

I have really never considered the Stllness-Movement a "spontaneous form". To me it has always been just "qigong", as it has, to me, always been the essence of qigong. To even call it a "form" is simply a label that can be used by agreement, so as to call it something.

No one can practice it without arriving at Stillness then allowing Movement and Stillness can not be arrived at when considering anything that can be talked about because the very discussion can not be made in Stillness as it utilizes the linear, brain oriented self. So for it to be posted as something someone could learn from or evaluate has no value as it must come from within.

 

 

Its all Qi Gong; breath cultivation. External breathing, then internal breathing. When the internal breath starts doing its thing, then there is something to be happy about. Before that, its all temporary...lol

 

Peace,

Lin

[Ya Mu]

Its all Qi Gong; breath cultivation. External breathing, then internal breathing. When the internal breath starts doing its thing, then there is something to be happy about. Before that, its all temporary...lol

 

Peace,

Lin

 

I assume you are referring to "breathing" as energy and not air breathing?

Because the Stillness-Movement is a direct energy method and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the many breath (air) techniques. We "breathe" energy from all pores, points, and non-points and consider the breath-way/lungs to be just another energy entrance place and not focused upon.

[rain]

I assume you are referring to "breathing" as energy and not air breathing?

Because the Stillness-Movement is a direct energy method and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the many breath (air) techniques. We "breathe" energy from all pores, points, and non-points and consider the breath-way/lungs to be just another energy entrance place and not focused upon.

 

 

Ya Mu

I am experiencing this in my current practise. When you speak about non points I wonder..I feel like a blotter paper..like breathing happens in - and inbetween points..like I am balanced out all over.

where will you be teaching in the future?

[林愛偉]

I assume you are referring to "breathing" as energy and not air breathing?

Because the Stillness-Movement is a direct energy method and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the many breath (air) techniques. We "breathe" energy from all pores, points, and non-points and consider the breath-way/lungs to be just another energy entrance place and not focused upon.

 

 

Breath (air) is energy. There is nothing that is not energy.

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited February 22, 2009 by 林愛偉

[Ya Mu]

breath is energy. There is nothing that is not energy.

 

Agreed

 

But when a lot (as in most) of people talk about "breathing techniques" as being in qigong, they are speaking about controlled and/or focused breath and I was just stating that Stillness-Movement does NOT focus or really have anything to do with this, other than natural breathing.

[林愛偉]

Agreed

 

But when a lot (as in most) of people talk about "breathing techniques" as being in qigong, they are speaking about controlled and/or focused breath and I was just stating that Stillness-Movement does NOT focus or really have anything to do with this, other than natural breathing.

 

 

Yes. That is true indeed. Yet to get to that point, practice, cultivation in developing concentration power/focus, is definetly needed to mature the practitioner.

 

I have seen someone pass out from MCO, first time they practiced Qi Gong, and just followed what their teacher spoke about without actually having the proper foundation laid do for it.

[Ya Mu]

Yes. That is true indeed. Yet to get to that point, practice, cultivation in developing concentration power/focus, is definetly needed to mature the practitioner.

 

I have seen someone pass out from MCO, first time they practiced Qi Gong, and just followed what their teacher spoke about without actually having the proper foundation laid do for it.

 

Good point.

I think this ties in with this thread and the question that was raised about anyone actually benefiting from watching a video of someone doing "spontaneous" movements. Without the foundation of "getting there" it really has no meaning to the observer. As that "getting there" was an experiential process of growth of the individual practitioner.

[Cameron]

--

Edited February 23, 2009 by Cameron

[Aetherous]

To me that is a completely different order of practice and not the same as doing Kunlun.

 

Word.

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu

I am experiencing this in my current practise. When you speak about non points I wonder..I feel like a blotter paper..like breathing happens in - and inbetween points..like I am balanced out all over.

where will you be teaching in the future?

 

Next workshop is March 21,22,23 in West Plains, Missouri for a flyer see here

[Spectrum]

Before I say anything more I want to point out that humans have this nack for making the very simple, very complex. So i'm pausing here to ask what is naturally spontaneous, that which occurs without thought attached to the action.

 

Catch your balance.

 

A flower, follows the sun. Puppies, burrow towards milk. Humans, reflexively flinch when "startled".

 

My feeling is the Kunlun practice is really quite sacred and personal. As Max said it's for your own not anyone elses awakening. For this reason filming myself practicing on a public forum feels off.

 

Trust your intuition. It's not that I'm attempting to exploit anything through film. That is the difference between filming for your self, and then choosing to post it later, vs. "performing" a "demonstration"...

 

I think I should point out I'm not posting my own "spiritual practice". You'd wouldn't see much. Just stillness. A twitch here or there, and more stillness, an adjustment, breathing, stillness, breathing stillness. We don't even do it in front of each other, it's personal. If you do, it's like you said, an ancient recognition of student teacher, master disciple, relationship, that has repeated itself for thousands of years.

 

There have been various instances in which every single method of practice I have "learned" have melted into an improvisational processes that is a "working out" of blockages in my personal expression. After that things are more clear, feelings acute, motivation and it's working out more direct. Thought and action unified into closer relationship, perhaps even indistinguishable at times...

 

The road to absolute stillness is inspiring, and painful. You might feel like moving, singing, coughing, whatever, having "forms" to "practice", ie fall into, I have seen it many times, in many kwons, sifus from many places sharing the same wisdom, speechlessly, adjusting postures, sweat dripping, primal sounds, emotions, trauma being released... and finally when chi is directly transformed to li it seperates the novice from adept. That is where martial and healing "power" coincide. This working out. This GUNG. Once you work out your kinks, you can be as kinky as you wish. move it, shake it, it has meaning, like ruffling feathers has meaning to the stork cooling wings in the wind. Ultimately there is a rhyme and reason to movement, else humans would not be able to make sound.

 

Practicing in front of Sifu Jenny last weekend I felt like I was allowed to be present to some ancient Maoshan Taoist spiritual tradition.

 

That's really awesome man. Really special times those are... r e a l l y. I n v a l u a b l e ! ! ! Respect shown here. I can't say a word. It's between you and your teacher you have bonded with.

 

But just watching a video clip of them doing it would have limited value imo. And ultimately wouldn't hold the sacred space between teacher and student.

 

Of course. Value in the context of entertainment or learning is different than inspiring the choir. I'm not talking about learning something here. We're just talking about inspiration through raw expression. Learning in a linear way is impossible when it comes to interpreting someones spontaneous actions.

 

I can use a concrete example of the video I posted on the top of page 2 of my brother. He was so excited to be doing something different that he posted it up. I reposted it. The same folks who are talking about "spontaneous" movement and all that, have the audacity to make fun of him for doing what feels good, so I totally understand where your coming from, it is a position of vulnerability that most people, myself included, are not willing to take when it comes to exploring spiritual practice. This position of vulnerability is what happens when you realize you need a guide through the forest of life if you want to learn more than the main road everyone else is on. This position of vulnerability is where chi cultivation begins to become your armor from others mental judgements of "movement"...

 

btw I am not speaking at all about the martial forms like the water boxing she showed or what Spectrum is doing. To me that is a completely different order of practice and not the same as doing Kunlun. IT IS a demonstration.

 

What i was doing was practicing. It wasn't a demo for anyone. I check myself. Your choosing to see the videos as "demo's" simply because of the format the information is presented to you. Video. Inspiration is different than the mentality of consumption. Looking to be entertained vs. looking for those a-ha moments that the entrainment mediums layer over.

 

Another example. I was watching a juggling video earlier. I was struck by the stance the juggler took as the balls moved faster, it was wuji, a slight squat, widened stance, hips fluid, hands agile. Inspired me. I took a deep breath and smiled. Refreshing. Meaningless really, totally spontaneous on his part, as he was focusing on juggling.

 

Even though you could say it has the potential of becoming formless it still begins with a specific coreographed form.

 

I think your slightly off course here... and this is why... forms are "guides"... like tracks to fall back on, paths of least resistance... because if I surprise you Cam, or Jenny, Lin, Maxie, Trunk.... or any other human being on the planet, sometimes I even scare myself on purpose.... I mean really surprise u, as in you take an unexpected gasp of air and you get some good pucker factor... or maybe theres a car coming at you, or a punch, or you hear a train is coming and your standing on the tracks... there is a series of responses that mean you will survive, and a series of responses in which you will not. One of them your body and mind opens to ALL POTENTIALS, and the other, you body and mind close. One fork of response limits your options, the other opens limitless potential.

 

The flowers cooreography is coded into it's seed. It follows the sun. To live. This is about cultivating LIFE. Good teachers plant seeds in individuals that will grow spontaneously when the person is ready for it. Different people move differently, so once the kinks are worked out (blockages from being silly humans) different people gravitate towards their strengths and are made aware of their weaknesses along the way. Forms are for learning how physics are connected to our being, at first physically, and then spiritually, if the student is willing to take it that far.

 

To me, that is closer to practices like Bauga, Shingyi or Tai Chi than Kunlun. Maybe you could call it spontaneous Tai Chi?

 

Wuji is connective principle here. What your doing is clearing our your meridians for later purpose of fullfilling your destinty. (spiritual art) Bagua, Shinyi and Tai Chi Chuan are CONTEMPORARY (the last 300 years) arts that step from older understandings of movement. This is about cultivating the geometry of the body, the geomantic relationships between soul and its environment. The three treasures of chinese martial art are representations of that type of cultivation, standing atop the shoulder of giants, teachers know the students are going to have to work the kinks out, and it's nice to have a flight plan that's useful for taking off, navigating terrain without crashing, and landing safely. If you throw a thrashing student into the deep end of the pool, they will just drown.

 

More...

 

The video i posted a couple days ago here is just practice footage that I use to observe my posture (like my right hip in single whip). Someone has said in the past that it seems like showing off, but it's not like that. It's uncomfortable to see yourself, especially when practice "feels" a certain way, and then you observe what the external manifestation of that feeling is... also when something spontaneously occurs that FEELS so great, I've wondered what those moments look like in myself... so that was @ post #36... page 2... this is #144... page 7... my thread has been here since Sept 07... that's a lot of movement inspired by simply drawing a line in the sand a couple days ago... I rest my case. A non-text medium of expression.

 

Why? Because observing myself is difficult. Video does not lie. Anyone who observes themselves knows what I mean, anyone who has ever recorded their voice and played it back and thought... is that really me?

 

You know this is very interesting because I've had this happen physically, by drawing tension between two or more poles, movement is spontaneously generated. I learned this working in crowds, so it's a very physical thing... here the video medium is used to generate movement that is subject to the dualistic discrimination of mind.

 

You want real spontaneity, put an end to your views of forms and formlessness!

 

Physical movement on the other hand is only spontaneous when there was no physical movement prior to that,

otherwise, the only true spontaneous movement is that where not even a thought arose and not even a movement manifested.

 

Your standing there. You hear a train. You realize your standing on the tracks. Do you need to think about getting out of the way? Not one itty bitty bit. You may pause in disbelieve... if you have "time"... but most of the "time" in those moments... time stops... or elongates... but most definite there is a change of "mind"... it's really a beautiful thing. Like Timeless Love is Beautiful. You feel fully alive. These are the moments that change lives. Your crossing a suspension bridge, a board breaks underneith your feet, you reach for the rope. Your standing on the beach, something profound has changed in your life, your mind and heart, you take what seems like your first breath... after what seemed like dying.

 

Theres no words for it, yet every poet and song crescendos into nameless depths.

 

It's just as much about living to find these moments, as being the moment.

 

We're humans, being on the edge of history. Living to die. Dying to live.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Spectrum

[Spirit Ape]

I can get to stillness / Emptyness by form and by doing formless what does that say just understand Soong /Sung and things happen that isnt reality and time stops or disappears as well yourself.

[林愛偉]

Before I say anything more I want to point out that humans have this nack for making the very simple, very complex. So i'm pausing here to ask what is naturally spontaneous, that which occurs without thought attached to the action.

 

Catch your balance.

 

A flower, follows the sun. Puppies, burrow towards milk. Humans, reflexively flinch when "startled".

Trust your intuition. It's not that I'm attempting to exploit anything through film. That is the difference between filming for your self, and then choosing to post it later, vs. "performing" a "demonstration"...

 

I think I should point out I'm not posting my own "spiritual practice". You'd wouldn't see much. Just stillness. A twitch here or there, and more stillness, an adjustment, breathing, stillness, breathing stillness. We don't even do it in front of each other, it's personal. If you do, it's like you said, an ancient recognition of student teacher, master disciple, relationship, that has repeated itself for thousands of years.

 

There have been various instances in which every single method of practice I have "learned" have melted into an improvisational processes that is a "working out" of blockages in my personal expression. After that things are more clear, feelings acute, motivation and it's working out more direct. Thought and action unified into closer relationship, perhaps even indistinguishable at times...

 

The road to absolute stillness is inspiring, and painful. You might feel like moving, singing, coughing, whatever, having "forms" to "practice", ie fall into, I have seen it many times, in many kwons, sifus from many places sharing the same wisdom, speechlessly, adjusting postures, sweat dripping, primal sounds, emotions, trauma being released... and finally when chi is directly transformed to li it seperates the novice from adept. That is where martial and healing "power" coincide. This working out. This GUNG. Once you work out your kinks, you can be as kinky as you wish. move it, shake it, it has meaning, like ruffling feathers has meaning to the stork cooling wings in the wind. Ultimately there is a rhyme and reason to movement, else humans would not be able to make sound.

 

 

 

That's really awesome man. Really special times those are... r e a l l y. I n v a l u a b l e ! ! ! Respect shown here. I can't say a word. It's between you and your teacher you have bonded with.

Of course. Value in the context of entertainment or learning is different than inspiring the choir. I'm not talking about learning something here. We're just talking about inspiration through raw expression. Learning in a linear way is impossible when it comes to interpreting someones spontaneous actions.

 

I can use a concrete example of the video I posted on the top of page 2 of my brother. He was so excited to be doing something different that he posted it up. I reposted it. The same folks who are talking about "spontaneous" movement and all that, have the audacity to make fun of him for doing what feels good, so I totally understand where your coming from, it is a position of vulnerability that most people, myself included, are not willing to take when it comes to exploring spiritual practice. This position of vulnerability is what happens when you realize you need a guide through the forest of life if you want to learn more than the main road everyone else is on. This position of vulnerability is where chi cultivation begins to become your armor from others mental judgements of "movement"...

What i was doing was practicing. It wasn't a demo for anyone. I check myself. Your choosing to see the videos as "demo's" simply because of the format the information is presented to you. Video. Inspiration is different than the mentality of consumption. Looking to be entertained vs. looking for those a-ha moments that the entrainment mediums layer over.

 

Another example. I was watching a juggling video earlier. I was struck by the stance the juggler took as the balls moved faster, it was wuji, a slight squat, widened stance, hips fluid, hands agile. Inspired me. I took a deep breath and smiled. Refreshing. Meaningless really, totally spontaneous on his part, as he was focusing on juggling.

I think your slightly off course here... and this is why... forms are "guides"... like tracks to fall back on, paths of least resistance... because if I surprise you Cam, or Jenny, Lin, Maxie, Trunk.... or any other human being on the planet, sometimes I even scare myself on purpose.... I mean really surprise u, as in you take an unexpected gasp of air and you get some good pucker factor... or maybe theres a car coming at you, or a punch, or you hear a train is coming and your standing on the tracks... there is a series of responses that mean you will survive, and a series of responses in which you will not. One of them your body and mind opens to ALL POTENTIALS, and the other, you body and mind close. One fork of response limits your options, the other opens limitless potential.

 

The flowers cooreography is coded into it's seed. It follows the sun. To live. This is about cultivating LIFE. Good teachers plant seeds in individuals that will grow spontaneously when the person is ready for it. Different people move differently, so once the kinks are worked out (blockages from being silly humans) different people gravitate towards their strengths and are made aware of their weaknesses along the way. Forms are for learning how physics are connected to our being, at first physically, and then spiritually, if the student is willing to take it that far.

Wuji is connective principle here. What your doing is clearing our your meridians for later purpose of fullfilling your destinty. (spiritual art) Bagua, Shinyi and Tai Chi Chuan are CONTEMPORARY (the last 300 years) arts that step from older understandings of movement. This is about cultivating the geometry of the body, the geomantic relationships between soul and its environment. The three treasures of chinese martial art are representations of that type of cultivation, standing atop the shoulder of giants, teachers know the students are going to have to work the kinks out, and it's nice to have a flight plan that's useful for taking off, navigating terrain without crashing, and landing safely. If you throw a thrashing student into the deep end of the pool, they will just drown.

 

More...

 

The video i posted a couple days ago here is just practice footage that I use to observe my posture (like my right hip in single whip). Someone has said in the past that it seems like showing off, but it's not like that. It's uncomfortable to see yourself, especially when practice "feels" a certain way, and then you observe what the external manifestation of that feeling is... also when something spontaneously occurs that FEELS so great, I've wondered what those moments look like in myself... so that was @ post #36... page 2... this is #144... page 7... my thread has been here since Sept 07... that's a lot of movement inspired by simply drawing a line in the sand a couple days ago... I rest my case. A non-text medium of expression.

 

Why? Because observing myself is difficult. Video does not lie. Anyone who observes themselves knows what I mean, anyone who has ever recorded their voice and played it back and thought... is that really me?

 

You know this is very interesting because I've had this happen physically, by drawing tension between two or more poles, movement is spontaneously generated. I learned this working in crowds, so it's a very physical thing... here the video medium is used to generate movement that is subject to the dualistic discrimination of mind.

Your standing there. You hear a train. You realize your standing on the tracks. Do you need to think about getting out of the way? Not one itty bitty bit. You may pause in disbelieve... if you have "time"... but most of the "time" in those moments... time stops... or elongates... but most definite there is a change of "mind"... it's really a beautiful thing. Like Timeless Love is Beautiful. You feel fully alive. These are the moments that change lives. Your crossing a suspension bridge, a board breaks underneith your feet, you reach for the rope. Your standing on the beach, something profound has changed in your life, your mind and heart, you take what seems like your first breath... after what seemed like dying.

 

Theres no words for it, yet every poet and song crescendos into nameless depths.

 

It's just as much about living to find these moments, as being the moment.

 

We're humans, being on the edge of history. Living to die. Dying to live.

 

 

Gradual and Spontaneous are a flip of the hand. One leads to the other, and there is neither of them.

[gendao]

Why? Because observing myself is difficult. Video does not lie. Anyone who observes themselves knows what I mean, anyone who has ever recorded their voice and played it back and thought... is that really me?

I agree. I think reviewing tape of yourself is a GREAT training tool.

 

With martial arts, the challenge is maintaining good form while remaining loose. And letting her rip without getting sloppy. And you may not realize how hard it can be to do both at full speed until you actually watch yourself on film!

 

But every art is a balance between spontaneous improv & "proper" form. Martial arts, dance, music, acting, etc. It's always a process of active participation in co-creation.

Edited February 23, 2009 by vortex

[freeform]

Spectrum - I have a good idea of what you mean now - and a nice way of explaining what's happening.

 

Your movements are a dance (dynamic relationship) between your body and your environment... your body and gravity, and the ground, and the air, and anything else that is in your environment.

 

Our (as in Kunlun, and I suspect Ya Mu's Stillness Movement) is a dance between you and the current of God... you and the energy that surges through everything. It's a dance that can be raw, chaotic and 'dirty' - animalistic. It's the relationship between the human body and 'spiritual lightning'.

 

This is where the crossed wires are - what you are expecting, is not what you'll see of kunlun... that youtube vid I posted - as funny as it is - it's often much more similar to that than to what you showed in your videos... (although spiraling, bio-mechanical, elegant movement can and does come up when the current engages the tendons, muscles and fascia, but this is never the focus)

[Cameron]

I have deleted my posts in this thread.

 

I also sincerely apologize if I offended anyone.

 

Though I cannot discern a "right" or "wrong" to any of this. The fact that I have doubts makes me think it would be best for me to remain silent on all these issues for a good while.

 

Cam

[Spectrum]

 

I have deleted my posts in this thread.

 

I care enough to carry a dialog with you... you delete your side of it? I'm glad I qouted some yeah? Learn to speak as if it's going to last forever. Deleting your words doesn't mean that you didn't express them. For a practice that is profound to you, has it changed the way you communicate? we read your words, a lot of us, so you can't 'really' take them back...

 

I also sincerely apologize if I offended anyone.

 

It's more offensive to me that you blow me off with " I deleted my posts ". What motivated you to being with?

 

Again, I'm glad I had the foresight to quote you as soon as I realized you had hit your trigger with "I'm not posting here anymore"... xeno is right on there. Long patterns standing. This is personally offensive to me. I had a pleasently brief and friendly phone call w/ you, I continue on w/ those lines along w/ some dialog that is meaningful to me... because in that call I said to you that the spontaneous movement was meaningful to me, especially in regard to how it related to the classical nature of chinese martial art...

 

You delete your dialog like it never happened. But it did Cam. Just like that call.

 

Most importantly. You can't delete what is spontaneous.

 

Spectrum - I have a good idea of what you mean now - and a nice way of explaining what's happening.

 

Your movements are a dance (dynamic relationship) between your body and your environment... your body and gravity, and the ground, and the air, and anything else that is in your environment.

 

Our (as in Kunlun, and I suspect Ya Mu's Stillness Movement) is a dance between you and the current of God... you and the energy that surges through everything. It's a dance that can be raw, chaotic and 'dirty' - animalistic. It's the relationship between the human body and 'spiritual lightning'.

 

Our (as in Kunlun, and I suspect Ya Mu's Stillness Movement) is a dance between you and the current

 

That's what standing is for. Cultivating that internal relationship. Stand in one place until the burn turns. That doesn't mean don't move, it just means wuji is the starting and ending point. The opening and closing point. The gateless gate.

 

I asked my Seigung something along these lines. He talked about surfing external energy and surfing internal energy. It struck me at the time to turn my camera on. Nothing planned, just talking about training the previous day... I'll embed it at the bottom of this post.

 

This is where the crossed wires are - what you are expecting, is not what you'll see of kunlun... that youtube vid I posted - as funny as it is - it's often much more similar to that than to what you showed in your videos... (although spiraling, bio-mechanical, elegant movement can and does come up when the current engages the tendons, muscles and fascia, but this is never the focus)

 

I consider it possible to have a dynamic relationship between the current and all the antennas simultaneously. A clear channel is the result, what's the use of a clear channel if you don't communicate effectively?

 

...you and the energy that surges through everything

 

DvN4OqY9dEU

Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum