those falling into further illusion

[voidisyinyang]

Tantra:

 

http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n10/htdocs/yo1.php?country=us

[.broken.]

Careful that the "idea" of the non dual is not dominant and watch out for non dual fundamentalism.

Bill

 

A sign of things to come, Bill. Wise words

 

Yours humbly,

James

 

P.S. Great thread guys - thoroughly enjoyed the read. Answered some of my own questions!

[Sunya]

Mikaelz,

 

I think that your sentiments are great but many masters like tenzin wangyal rinpoche while holding an absolute perspective are also shamans, and healers and energy practitioners and serve people where they're at in their growth in the moment. If we can be with whatever is happening in this moment then that should include all experiences and we can let go of all experiences as well.

Careful that the "idea" of the non dual is not dominant and watch out for non dual fundamentalism.

Bill

 

I have utmost respect for healers.. my point is that the path of shamanism, healing, astral traveling, transportation, Jedi Mind Skills, have nothing to do with enlightenment. plain and simple.

 

so doing all of these things is great, but for those who are seeking truth than all of these psychic spiritual hobbies are only hindrances because they create a better "you", the ego loves all these titles and psychic powers.. the ego loves to astral travel and hang out with demi-gods. and it will be even harder to let go after you have experienced even more of the infinitude of creation. so why bother?

 

attaching yourself to all these sidepaths before you even know Who You Truly Are, is a mistake in my opinion

 

thats all

 

my teacher Swami G does energy work as well, and i've heard she packs quite a hit. but it came naturally to her after realization.. it wasn't sought

 

you are obviously free to do as you wish, Shamans tend to learn the hard way. i myself am still pretty enthralled with all of the possibilities.. its truly remarkable.. but a good point is.. using the Judeo-Christian model as a metaphor. we love God's creation more than God, we love Shakti more than Shiva.. we love Form more than Formless. but think about this. if God's creation is so amazing.. think about how amazing God is. the creator of all this, the source of all the manifested physical, astral, whatever.

Edited June 15, 2008 by mikaelz

[Vajrasattva]

I have utmost respect for healers.. my point is that the path of shamanism, healing, astral traveling, transportation, Jedi Mind Skills, have nothing to do with enlightenment. plain and simple.

 

so doing all of these things is great, but for those who are seeking truth than all of these psychic spiritual hobbies are only hindrances because they create a better "you", the ego loves all these titles and psychic powers.. the ego loves to astral travel and hang out with demi-gods. and it will be even harder to let go after you have experienced even more of the infinitude of creation. so why bother?

 

attaching yourself to all these sidepaths before you even know Who You Truly Are, is a mistake in my opinion

 

thats all

 

my teacher Swami G does energy work as well, and i've heard she packs quite a hit. but it came naturally to her after realization.. it wasn't sought

 

you are obviously free to do as you wish, Shamans tend to learn the hard way. i myself am still pretty enthralled with all of the possibilities.. its truly remarkable.. but a good point is.. using the Judeo-Christian model as a metaphor. we love God's creation more than God, we love Shakti more than Shiva.. we love Form more than Formless. but think about this. if God's creation is so amazing.. think about how amazing God is. the creator of all this, the source of all the manifested physical, astral, whatever.

 

Do not mean to throw another wrench in your wheel but.......

 

GOD IS THE ULTIMATE SHAMAN : )

 

We are but puppets.

 

Shiva was the 1st Shaman.

 

His "Shamanism" is what got him to realize "MAHASWARA" or MAHASHIVA, "BHAIRAVA".

 

his Shamanism is where all YOGAS, Occult practices etc stem from so to use his name and not acknowledge energy work as a path towards enlightenment means you do not understand Shiva. Yes the Siddhis are side effects and tools of the divine and the ultimate goal is full realization of the whole.Even in Buddhism they took the old tantras took shiva's name out and replaced them with BUDDHA but guess what its still Shivaism....

 

In Bonpo this is the 1st "buddha"

 

"Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche"

The principles ae the same.

 

I have stated before you want to be in this "plane" & reality you must learn to master it and be in it.

 

Sounds to me as if you are "high" from your teacher right now and that is a good thing. Come talk to me in a few years. Have a family etc become part of society. KNow what I mean?

 

 

What are you going to do now with this profound awareness that you have now ?

 

Peace

 

Santiago

Edited June 15, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[mantis]

the attitude of a reborn christian

 

and the intelligence of one to match

[Vajrasattva]

A sign of things to come, Bill. Wise words

 

Yours humbly,

James

 

P.S. Great thread guys - thoroughly enjoyed the read. Answered some of my own questions!

 

 

Non Dual can lead to Nihilsim in its extreme form.

 

Hence the need to have Duality.

 

Outs of the childs boredem with non duality, duality was created both coexist with each other with out one you can not have realization of the other.

 

Shiva is the creator & destroyer.

 

He did good for a brother with dreads sippin a 40 by the himalyas : )

 

AUM NAMA SHIVAYA

Edited June 15, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Aetherous]

I was into Swami G for a while. She is good, but we didn't click. I wish you the best of luck with her, Mikael.

 

I suggest not talking about all of this until you're actually realized. Get her shaktipat, do everything she says, reach realization yourself, then discuss it. Because right now you're just the blind leading the blind, and you're also just a parrot, rehashing everything Swami G says. She may be right...but find out for yourself instead of intellectualizing it. The purpose of her teachings aren't for you to be right and to prove others wrong...it's for you to find the truth. Because as it stands right now, you are engaging in ego activities just like everyone else. It's no better than kunluners, qigongers, yoga freaks, etc.

 

[voidisyinyang]

Well now the joke's on my family. I just biked about 50 miles today but my parents' house was "locked up." Ah -- except that unlocked kitchen window right above a nice stepping bench. haha. Just had to turn around the latches on the outside frame window, use a garden tool, presto.

 

Who knows what life will bring. Thanks for sharing. My whole bike trip I had INDIAN music stuck in my head -- this bollywood c.d.

 

And the bike I was using was terrible but a third way up I stopped at a rec. center and this young female eyed me going into full-lotus. She displayed herself very skillfully and after 15 minutes -- or 3 "O at a Ds," the public usual -- all the sore muscles were gone and the magnetic bliss was back in the center of my head. haha.

 

So that made the rest of the bike trip tolerable.

[Sunya]

drew, this thread isn't your blog LOL wtf? you crack me up man

hahah

 

 

Santi, thanks for your replies.. we disagree in that i don't buy into these myths. i don't think Shiva actually existed, but is rather a form that represents absolute consciousness. at least thats what it became.. in the beginning maybe a person did inspire it. either way, doesn't change anything. whether Jesus existed or not doesn't change anything for a christian mystic.. but many squabble over historical facts. to me its a waste of time. though some enjoy it, whatever makes you happy my friend.

 

i have no profound awareness. i'm still a noob!

 

btw Santi you check your gmail? i sent you an email.

 

 

 

thanks Scotty for pointing it out.. definitely blind leading the blind since i'm still in ignorance. but i'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. this wasn't meant as an argument, though some people get too defensive when i question the foundations of their beliefs. just a discussion, and a sharing of experience and opinion.

 

why didn't you click with her? i honestly hated her at first, thought she was arrogant and full of it.. she made me very angry. but some part of my being knew that this was a good thing. she doesn't play around.. she has the energy of Kali.. cuts heads off like its nobodys business! haha

Edited June 16, 2008 by mikaelz

[steve]

i have no profound awareness. i'm still a noob!

I don't believe you

 

Saying what you said in your first post is never easy nor well received

 

_/\_

[Aetherous]

thanks Scotty for pointing it out.. definitely blind leading the blind since i'm still in ignorance. but i'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. this wasn't meant as an argument, though some people get too defensive when i question the foundations of their beliefs. just a discussion, and a sharing of experience and opinion.

 

Well you do seem humble now, but go back and read your first post in this topic...it's kind of different. I do think you were trying to help, so the intention was good.

 

There are people here who are interested in using energy related phenomenon to realize the truth.

 

why didn't you click with her? i honestly hated her at first, thought she was arrogant and full of it.. she made me very angry. but some part of my being knew that this was a good thing. she doesn't play around.. she has the energy of Kali.. cuts heads off like its nobodys business! haha

 

I didn't mind her at first. In fact I had no idea she was the guru...her posts at the time kind of blended in with everyone else's on the god-realized yahoo group. This was about 5 years ago now that I first started talking to her. Somehow I found out she knew what she was talking about, and told her my personal story. She said I was ready for diksha, and to set up my own altar and stuff...I wasn't really ready to have a weird altar in my dorm room but whatever. I would ask about whatever was on my mind, and she'd answer freely. It was actually very great. She said it was common for a seeker to donate or give up something as a sign that they were ready, so since I really didn't have much at the time, especially money, I offered to become celibate for a month (which was quite a challenge at the time). She warned me that it was bad karma if I went back on what I said I'd do, and I said "ok", then I ended up not following through. Well that kind of ended the thing right there...a couple years later I went back to her saying that I thought I was ready again. During the time away, I think she stabilized herself more in that identity as the guru, or something. Beforehand she was really open, but now she seems to become more and more closed off. At least that's the impression I have gotten over the years. Of course, she will say it's all coming from the source or whatever, and that there isn't a personality there, but from what I've seen I disagree. She may have true, effortless, constant realization, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have her own quirks. Anyway, I was going to go down to Mexico where she was about a couple years ago to get diksha. It was going to be on this auspicious holiday for Indians, so she said it looked good...I couldn't get a passport in time. Then I would have very strong kundalini awakenings as a result of talking to her. One night I couldn't get ANY sleep, and most night there was little. Fear would arise in me. For some reason, I asked her more about the tradition itself...like why the fire ceremony and bowing to the fire, if the absolute is beyond form, etc. She took that to mean I had a lot of Christian conditioning, and that I was being disrespectful and there would be no way she'd do diksha because I would probably freak out. I didn't think that was the case, but anyway that was the final straw I guess. I basically left, but she kind of pushed me away too, and said "don't do any spiritual practices". LOL I actually didn't for quite a few months, but I think nothing can stop the desire for the truth in me, so I began again, regardless.

 

It would've been quite a spiritual practice to stay away from spiritual practices.

 

Anyway I like her, and think she is telling the truth. It seems she has helped quite a few people. I just don't get along with her as a seeker...I'm not all about the guru thing.

[satyagraha]

"the path is the obstacle"

 

 

or so they say...

[steve]

"the path is the obstacle"

or so they say...

The truth is a pathless land

J. Krishnamurti

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[shontonga]

Mikaelz humble? Not really, not yet. Life will deliver that lesson though sooner or later. Whether it is accepted or understood, that is down to the individual.

 

Mikaelz, there is a world of difference between understanding something and knowing it. You are clearly an intelligent and articulate person. You understand what is being discussed, you have it in your head. You don't know in your heart though. You lack the experience.

 

How can I say this? Well, it is just my opinion, but I have been where you are. The arrogance certainly. The blind acceptance of a guru, no. The belief that what I thought at the time was correct, yes. Fortunately for me life has smacked me upside the head over this, and continues to do so when needed. I'm very lucky in that way.

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

P.S. We 'whores' are not being defensive-but that is a common argument used by those who would dismiss others opinions. Please don't be condescending in that way. No one here is dissing your path, so we would simply appreciate it if you didn't shit on ours.

 

MIKE!

 

harsh ?

 

 

Personal attacks on Mirrors ???

 

Careful!

 

Don't want to shatter any

... 7ish years bad luck and some such

ladders start falling on black cats and all ...

LOL.

are we looking into the mirror

or are we looking out of the mirror?

and butterflies dream!

 

If lookin' for write or wrong ... u all r.

Me too!

 

Have to sift(pan) through a whole lot of sand to find the gold

(I like pretty sand, too!)

then when we find it ...

let it go.

let it flow.

down the river,

it is the sea.

the clouds

are the Soul of the ocean!

all the same.

 

Peace kids!

 

Shon.

 

play nice now.

 

I'd so like to Rip into some of the shamanism stuff on here!

Could tell such stories of death!

Birth can be just as hard and messy.

they go hand in hand. U flip the same coin!

but need to put my ego on a diet!

LOL.

 

 

Some folks might get parts of this???LOL!

 

 

Sorry Mike for using you as my example of us All!

Thanks for being there for me to do that!

... this virgin has a lot of fun playing in whorehouses!!!

 

peace!

Share the Love!

Share the Love!

Edited June 16, 2008 by shontonga

[Vajrasattva]

drew, this thread isn't your blog LOL wtf? you crack me up man

hahah

Santi, thanks for your replies.. we disagree in that i don't buy into these myths. i don't think Shiva actually existed, but is rather a form that represents absolute consciousness. at least thats what it became.. in the beginning maybe a person did inspire it. either way, doesn't change anything. whether Jesus existed or not doesn't change anything for a christian mystic.. but many squabble over historical facts. to me its a waste of time. though some enjoy it, whatever makes you happy my friend.

 

 

Well I can only share with you my experience. I have been through a lot more than you think. But I guess if I was Swami S you would come pay me a visit instead of trying to make a discussion on something you have never experienced yet......the problem is I am a lot more honest than that. What you see is what you get and if you are untrained to see further you never get further. Unless ofcourse you empty your cup.

 

You are just regurgitating what you are being fed. And that is ok. Like I said you are "high" off your teacher. And its good to be high off it and learn from it but you still need your "OWN" experience in truth and not intellectualize it or whatever. Also you miss a big picture here the paths are many not one. All lead to the same source if you dig or climb high enough. Be loyal to your teachers that is a good thing but you have more to go.

 

 

i have no profound awareness. i'm still a noob!

 

 

Yes i see that. And also young......

 

Go spend time with people with Cancer, Aids, hospitals, go visit prisons, spend time with inner city kids....and then come tell me that you would rather be an "ESCAPE ARTIST" then a real enlightened being....You want to know God? God is in the places we least expect.......

 

What you are being taught is "ESCAPEISM". Not me, not my path I have been there I have gone through it I had the choice to leave or stay I chose to stay regardless of the fact that this is "illusion" for the sake of others. If I have to incarnate as a Goat to help others I will. This bullshit of ESCAPING reality spiritual nonsense is for the immature and the irresponsible. You want spirituality? Get back to reality and be fully PRESENT.

 

Yes we know its all illusion but as the Dalai Lama told me in person make it better for those who do not see it as illusion yet.

 

A real enlightened being brings light and wisdom and compassion & healing to those who can not or will not see the truth. But its never forced.. I do not "URGE" anyone to do shit. They want it ? Great . They do not want it? No worries just like the Sun & the Universe give graciously regardless.

 

My friend do your path. I hope Swami G is what you are looking for.

 

btw Santi you check your gmail? i sent you an email.

 

yes i will answer it soon.

 

 

thanks Scotty for pointing it out.. definitely blind leading the blind since i'm still in ignorance. but i'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. this wasn't meant as an argument, though some people get too defensive when i question the foundations of their beliefs. just a discussion, and a sharing of experience and opinion.

 

why didn't you click with her? i honestly hated her at first, thought she was arrogant and full of it.. she made me very angry. but some part of my being knew that this was a good thing. she doesn't play around.. she has the energy of Kali.. cuts heads off like its nobodys business! haha

 

Wait you just said Kali and Shiva do not exist?

 

 

Live from your heart and pay attention to the Earth and the Divine....let them show you what illusions are.

 

with love,

 

Santiago

 

 

 

 

 

Santiago

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[shontonga]

Hi Shontonga

 

Did you used to watch the old Batman TV series? You remember the Riddler character? 'Riddle me this, riddle me that'.

 

Harsh? Not at all. Some of the 'old hands' from the WWK forum have seen my harsh. Believe me-or don't-there was love in every word. Because I have the experience and know the lesson, I can smile in that mirror. I can be honest in the mirror too. But always, I smile.

 

If you are a virgin in the whorehouse my friend, how are you sharing the love

 

I keep coming back to this often now:

 

Sincere words are are not sweet,

Sweet words are not sincere.

Good men are not argumentative,

The argumentative are not good.

The wise are not erudite,

The erudite are not wise.

The Sage does not take to hoarding,

The more he lives for others,

The fuller his life.

The more he gives,

The more he abounds.

The Way of Heaven is to benefit,

Not to harm.

The Way of the Sage is to do his duty,

Not to strive with anyone.

 

Lao Tzu

 

Tao Teh Ching

 

Shambhala Pocket Classics, translated by John C.H. Wu

 

Nice to know and not just understand.

 

You can keep your virginity if you choose. I'd rather be having fun and not just watching the show .

 

 

Love it Mike!

Thank you!

LOL.

No, not much on tv, always outside!

OH yeah ... recall the cave? the car? all black and white on a kick stomp tv.

Static like white mice on the screen.

"Harsh" was just my own sarcasm !

U got the post because u know some lessons.

These mirrors are nice and shiny

and riddles only riddled with simplicity.

... And HEY!

are you saying LOVE can only be shared sexually!

???

Sounds like a disease!

LOL.

There are some very loving virgins out there!

OK.

Mind out of the gutter,kids!

(think a good percentage of this young world by the way!)

Hey, by the way, you folks know about

the "born again virgin movement" that's out there, right?

I'm not making it up!!!

Yes. I do live in one strange world! you would Not believe!

But they say if you don't have sex for over a certain period of time,

Some say 2 weeks, others 2 months or eight, or a year or ten or somesuch,

You are a born again virgin!

Some folks following some paths on here would surely

fall into that group if they wanted to!

LOL. Just so you know.

 

i like that Tao Teh Ching quote.

don't know that version.

Translation.

 

"Nice to know and not just understand. "

YES!

U GOT IT!

 

"You can keep your virginity if you choose. I'd rather be having fun and not just watching the show ."

 

LOL!

Now you make sure if your not watching the show

and are part of that act, You protect the tools of your trade!

tell ya like yer my own brother

some things may be worth keeping wrapped up!

LOL

 

Keep smiling!

 

I bow out now. LOL!

 

Shon

 

You keep sharing that Love!

[Sunya]

i'm out guys, thanks for the conversation.

 

email me if you'd like to talk more

Edited June 16, 2008 by mikaelz

[三江源]

.

Edited April 13, 2015 by 三江源

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[shontonga]

Ha,ha.

Great !

MMJ, enjoyed this!

 

mikaelz, thank you for this thread.

You are right in how easily we can all get caught

playing with our own shadows

making them dance

and forgetting to spin around and play with the sun

 

Didn't intend for my foolishness to end your posts

Have enjoyed them all sincerely.

only intention was to calm

some of the shadows from attacking each other

LOL, "shadow wars"!

 

the paths we follow

and our experiences and beliefs

often appear different

are expressed with different words

but the heartfelt sincerity remains

the techniques often very similar

important (to this kid) to treasure

everyones stories/lives

So important to share them

so we can all learn

see with others eyes

 

Have a friend who tells me

" If someone brings you brownies, and you can't eat them,

You don't say "YUCK!"

becuse next time they may bring you some assume cookies!"

You want them to share those cookies!

Don't want them to think you hate their cooking!

can always pass those brownies off to the sea gulls

 

 

This is the first board i've joined in truth.

apologies if i get carried away

... go overboard

am actually very shy!

but also grew up on a dock

and couldn't resist playing with that!

 

This board is a new way for me to play push hands!

Thanks for letting me play!

 

Shon

 

 

 

CAT "Because humans love stories. They are food for the non linear brain. For the soul."

 

I AM HUMAN ?!?

I love to hear folks experiences

 

Hope you all keep sharing!

Edited June 16, 2008 by shontonga

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Sunya]

All good fun my friend, all good fun. No need to apologise, non at all. Hatsumi sensei, among others, have advised us to be more like children, so following his advice of 'go play!' seems sound to me!

 

Ah, running battles in the corridor at school against a hoard of nine year olds, wielding giant inflatable hammers and having a whale of time. Happy memories.

 

hi cat, no nothign to do with you i actually love your posts! haha

 

i just realized that whats the point? this has only been an intellectual discussion with people arguing opinions, i myself don't have direct experience so why bother. people arguing hearsay

i only wanted to share an opinion and give some a different perspective but probably came off too arrogant and thus some were quite defensive. sorry guys