Chapter One of the TTC

[Cobie]

 

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

詩 經 (shi1 jing1) [poetry scripture] Book of Songs (Shijing) (11th to 7th centuries BC)

“ … the Shijing style groups four syllable lines into quatrains. 

 

3 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Wasn't that after Laozte's time?

 

No. BC means ‘before Christ’. Laozi (6the century BC) is after 詩 經 (11th to 7th centuries BC).

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Laozi 6the century BC

詩 經 11th to 7th centuries BC

Ok you won on this one. But Loatze still did not use any poetic style writing for the TTC as you had claimed. You may see some lines as quatrains but it was just a coincidence. 

[Apech]

11 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Ok you won on this one. But Loatze still did not use any poetic style writing for the TTC as you had claimed. You may see some lines as quatrains but it was just a coincidence. 

The whole thing is poetic.

 

[ChiDragon]

10 minutes ago, Apech said:

The whole thing is poetic.

 

 

As you wish!

[Cobie]

 

On 31/12/2025 at 8:52 PM, ChiDragon said:

… What is the TTC all about?

The DDJ is about morality. See the title: 道 德 經 (DDJ) The Way of Virtue (Scripture).

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Cobie

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

@steve

長得長, 長長, 長長, 長長 

長1(zhabg): to grow 

長2(chang): long in length 

長3(chang): long in time 

 

長1得長2(zhang de chang): It grows long

長3長2(chang chang): always long 

長3長1(chang zhang): always growing 

長3長2: always long 

 

 

Thats what the Chinese guy in the  restaurant toilet claimed to my friend in China as he offered  him some pills  !  ''Make wife very happy '' .   So my friend foolishly bought them and bought them back to Australia .

 

He tried some before going to bed with his wife . he noticed the effect ... but his wife didnt  . ''It looks longer to me .'' he said . 

 

''Not to me ... '' she said , '' You are imagining things .''

 

So he went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror ...it  looked longer - to him  !  But then as he looked around .... the curtains looked longer .... the towels on the towel rack looked longer .... his face looked longer  ....

 

 

Moral .... dont buy dodgy 'sex pills' in a Chinese restaurant toilet  !  

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, steve said:

 

What is OD?

 

 

 

 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOO   !    

 

  

 

- Old daobums joke    

 

 

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

No, I am not in touch with any banned members. 

 

Errrmmmm ... yes you are    

 

( you just dont realize it ) 

[steve]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

What have you learn from them about the concept of Wu Wei? Did you learn anything from their translation about the true meaning of Wu Wei?

 

Wu wei has many dimensions. I’ve learned from translations, commentary, other authors, meditation, contemplation, and most of all trying to live it. I’m grateful for it all.

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, when we say "the sky is falling" doesn't mean "heaven is falling.

 

Well, that makes sense as the sky is always falling but   heaven is not .

 

[steve]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

I don't mind taken your challenge of "the mission impossible." Do you know how much I went through in a book with the Chinese interpretation of each phrase in the TTC line by line. Each line was interpreted in the native language with lots of annotation. Even the term Wu Wei had a lot of explaining to do. Do you think just by saying "do nothing,"  you will accept that it is the principle of Wu Wei. It is because you understood the English translation of "do nothing" is the principle of Wu Wei. Come on, my friend Steve.

 

I think we’re saying the same thing but finding it hard to understand your meaning here.

[Nungali]

25 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

The DDJ is about morality. See the title: 道 德 經 (DDJ) The Way of Virtue (Scripture).

 

 

 

The modern English meaning  of virtue or the ancient Greek  meaning of virtue ?      

[Nungali]

9 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Wu wei has many dimensions. I’ve learned from translations, commentary, other authors, meditation, contemplation, and most of all trying to live it. I’m grateful for it all.

 

'  ... and from many sources we gather and weave all the colored threads  to weave a tapestry of our own understanding  '  . 

[Apech]

41 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

The DDJ is about morality. See the title: 道 德 經 (DDJ) The Way of Virtue (Scripture).

 

 

You need to research the meaning of virtue.

[Cobie]

 

1 minute ago, Apech said:

You need to research the meaning of virtue.

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

 

 

 

 

 

 

virtue

/ˈvəːtʃuː/

noun

 

1. 1. 

   behaviour showing high moral standards.

   "paragons of virtue"

[ChiDragon]

19 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Wu wei has many dimensions. I’ve learned from translations, commentary, other authors, meditation, contemplation, and most of all trying to live it. I’m grateful for it all.

Many religions use the term Wu Wei.
To a Buddhist, Wu Wei are the taboos as rules that monks are forbidden to do.    

To a Taoist, Wu Wei in the only thing Taoist do not do to cause interruption of any kind against nature.

[Cobie]

無為 (wu2 wei2) do not behave like a civil servant; be yourself

 

 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

The DDJ is about morality. See the title: 道 德 經 (DDJ) The Way of Virtue (Scripture).

I think you are confused with the concept of Confucian's 道德. This is a compound character that means morality.

 

The 道德 in 道德經 are two different entities. They are separated as 道 and 德, not compounded. The 道 here is the principle. 德 is the virtue was credited to those who follow the principle of Tao. Thus it is 道德(compound) known as having the virtue for following the principle of Tao.

Didn't we have the same discussion before from here and there, over and over?

Edited 1 hour ago by ChiDragon

[Apech]

14 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

 

 

 

 

 

 

virtue

/ˈvəːtʃuː/

noun

 

1. 1. 

   behaviour showing high moral standards.

   "paragons of virtue"

That’s meaning no. 1 … have a look at the other 30 meanings.

[ChiDragon]

46 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I think we’re saying the same thing but finding it hard to understand your meaning here.

I just want to make myself clear, I didn't say Wu Wei, "do nothing" is the correct translation!

 

The correct translation is let nature take its course without interfering by humans.

Something one don't understand need to be explained. This is why we are having this discussionr. We should not have the attitude that a new thing didn't learn before is not acceptable. After we have ironed things out, then something new has been learned. What do you think?

Edited 1 hour ago by ChiDragon

[DynamicEquilibrium]

7 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I just want to make myself clear, I didn't say Wu Wei, "do nothing" is the correct translation!

 

The correct translation is let nature take its course without interfering by humans.

Through which device comes understanding of the concept ?

Body 身 or mind 心 ? 

Edited 1 hour ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[ChiDragon]

10 minutes ago, DynamicEquilibrium said:

Through which device comes understanding of the concept ?

Body 身 or mind 心 ? 

 

The concept was originate from the term of Wu Wei well defined in Chapter 51 by Laotze in his TTC. 
It was practiced by the cultivation of the xing(mind).

Edited 1 hour ago by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 51 - 玄德的無為
1.道生之，
2.德畜之，
3.物形之，
4.勢成之。
5.是以萬物莫不尊道而貴德。
6.道之尊，
7.德之貴，
8.夫莫之命而常自然。
9.故,
10.道生之，
11.德畜之。
12.長之育之。
13.亭之毒之。
14.養之覆之。
15.生而不有，
16.為而不恃，
17.長而不宰。
18.是謂玄德。 

Chapter 51 The Divine Virtue of Wu Wei
1. Tao engenders it,
2. Te rears it.
3. Matter forms it,
4. Environment grows it.
5. Hence, all things respect Tao and honor Te.
6. The dignity of Tao,
7. The value of Te.
8. They do not interfere but let them be natural.
9. Therefore,
10. Tao engenders it,
11. Te rears it.
12. Grow it and nourish it,
13. Let it grow to maturity,
14. To foster it and protect it.
15. Engenders it but not possess it.
16. For it but not restraining it,
17. Raise it but not controlling it,
18. It was called divine virtue.

[DynamicEquilibrium]

6 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

The concept was originate from the term of Wu Wei well defined in Chapter 51 by Laotze in his TTC. .

 

The concept of "ghost in the machine" is a critic of body/mind dualism a la Descartes, but really, without body/integration or psychosomatic integration, we will never understand the meaning of Wuwei.

 

Why ? Because it would always remain a concept separated from the body.

 

To solve this issue we have

性命雙修 so we can transform concepts into real actions in the very real ordinary daily Life.

Edited 1 hour ago by DynamicEquilibrium

[steve]

18 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I just want to make myself clear, I didn't say Wu Wei, "do nothing" is the correct translation!

 

Understood, I didn't think you said that.

 

18 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

 

The correct translation is let nature take its course without interfering by humans.

 

That's a reasonable translation.

If a human saw a wild animal drowning in a storm and rescued it, would that be interfering with nature?

In other words, is a human following nature trying to help other living creatures in a natural disaster?

I think the definition of wu wei is more complicated and sophisticated to explore than what can be contained in a phrase or two characters.

 

18 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Something one don't understand need to be explained. This is why we are having this discussionr. We should not have the attitude that a new thing didn't learn before is not acceptable. After we have ironed things out, then something new has been learned. What do you think?

 

I think that wu wei is not so much about what I think, more about what I do and what I am.

Thinking does have its place, however, to a point. 

Words can be a good guide but also an obstacle.