Chakras and Dantians (split from No, you don't have to build a Dantian)

[forestofclarity]

59 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

Some would say that we implant these. 

 

But do you feel that we implant the potential of a dantian or a chakra as well? 

 

Or that the method shapes the function of the energy centers?

 

It is an interesting question. My initial experiences with the subtle body had no priming at all and it wasn't until later I discovered it fit along with traditional (Shaivite) Tantric descriptions. With dan tians, I had some basic priming but I was shocked at how real they've felt when I received a boost from a tai chi master.  

 

As with all things, it is probably a mixture. Physical reality, in the traditions I follow, is like a collective or shared dream. So I think the basic structures and probably the three dan tians are a part of the consensual dream. So it is not like a personal dream and it is not the independent, physical world modern Westerners take it to be. 

 

However, this shared dream is also impacted and shaped by our "own" minds. In Tibetan Buddhism, different chakras have different associations with the colors and elements depending on the tradition, like Wallis says --- I think these are somewhat installed. But working with the Bon model, I worked with it for a while, suspended it, and then started it again after unrelated meditative work and I was surprised at how well my current experiences fit the model --- especially when I had doubts and didn't fully agree with it. 

 

But who knows? I like to keep the conceptual net loose to see what can develop. 

[Cobie]

 

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

…  Chakras and dantien refer to the same things. 

None of these systems are real. They are ‘boats’ to be discarded when ‘job done’. 
 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:18 PM by Cobie

[Apech]

47 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

None of these systems are real. They are ‘boats’ to be discarded when ‘job done’. 
 

 

 

Are you real @Cobie

[Cobie]

 

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

Are you real @Cobie

Are you for real @Apech

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:09 PM by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

17 hours ago, Lairg said:

In the Western tradition

?????

[Lairg]

17 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

?????

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=western+esoteric+tradition+&atb=v499-7&ia=web

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Are you for real @Apech

 

 

 

 

My heart chakra says yes!

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Let’s just discard all terminology used for thousands of years and call them whatever we feel like 👍 

 

I’m typing this comment with my toes 

[Cobie]

typing injury

 

 

Edited Saturday at 10:44 PM by Cobie

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

My heart chakra says yes!

 

Agreed

 

 

[Forestgreen]

6 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Let’s just discard all terminology used for thousands of years and call them whatever we feel like 👍 

 

And then meaningful communication breaks down.

[Forestgreen]

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

None of these systems are real. They are ‘boats’ to be discarded when ‘job done’. 

A typical two truths situation. While they lack reality in an ultimate sense, the systems are still real in a conventional sense, including the distinctions. And jumping too soon to the ultimate truth might mean that one jump off ship before reaching the other shore. 

[Forestgreen]

10 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

 

I was surprised at how well my current experiences fit the model 

I have repeatedly been surprised with how my experiences fit the model, especially when the experience is way off from my concept of it. 

Sometimes, facepalm is the rule  not the exception. 

It is easy to forget that some of the classics are confirmatory, not manuals, in their structure.

[Antares]

how i can sense it, it is neither inside, nor outside of the body

真土無位，真意無形，神哉神哉    true earth has no location, true intent has no form

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/紫陽真人悟真篇註疏

 

〉

 

[Forestgreen]

13 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

The western and the central school use outside Dantian

When I do that, it is for a process where the concept of "dantian" is no longer relevant.  Do you have any text that show that these traditions calls it 'Dantian "?

13 hours ago, Master Logray said:

or multiple Dantians. 

Three, or five? Most neidan traditions use more than one. But less than 400, and mostly aligned with the center line. 

13 hours ago, Master Logray said:

The Fukien School uses the back as the Dantian location. 

Ming Men, or the entire spine?

13 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 And in different stages, people use different Dantian/locations.

Yepp, the place the internal process is most active changes. 

The traditional three dantian and five centers on the central line models explicitly discuss this. 

 

But, to connect to where this discussion started, do you know of any models where a tradition use a space not on the central line or on the spine,  and still call that a dantian? 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

And then meaningful communication breaks down.

Hence this entire thread 

[Master Logray]

5 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

When I do that, it is for a process where the concept of "dantian" is no longer relevant.  Do you have any text that show that these traditions calls it 'Dantian "?

Three, or five? Most neidan traditions use more than one. But less than 400, and mostly aligned with the center line. 

Ming Men, or the entire spine?

Yepp, the place the internal process is most active changes. 

The traditional three dantian and five centers on the central line models explicitly discuss this. 

 

But, to connect to where this discussion started, do you know of any models where a tradition use a space not on the central line or on the spine,  and still call that a dantian? 

 

 

Even normally Taoist used so many terms to describe a single object or process, according to their functions in the whole picture or simply due to some unknown reasons.   Dantian and Mystic Gate are the terms that have many variations.   e.g. the Central School says "between the outer and the inner Dantians".   When they do not explicitly say LDT, it doesn't mean it is not LDT.

 

I would say most people only use 1 or 2.

 

When you say the spine, that is a good question, the location of LDT is not having a consensus.  But the depth of Dantian inside the body is also not always agreed upon.  Some say it is on the surface, 1.3 Chinese inches inside, the middle of the abdomen, inside the spine, the whole general area etc.

 

The "Back" refers to the spot on the back of the body, behind the MDT (in front or in the middle).

 

As far as cultivation is concerned, re ZZ (in another thread) and location of Dantian is not a big issue.  Your system determines these.  You are not supposed to change these yourself, even if you are very knowledgeable.  It is not like a buffet whereby you can choose any combination of food.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Forestgreen]

3 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Hence this entire thread 

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men, you just can't reach."

[Sahaja]

The Naths use the 16 adharas  (locations in the body) to guide their yoga practice. Energy manifests in them per the days of the moon (new moon in big toes, full moon at topknot). 

 

https://yogicheritage.myfreesites.net/articles/sixteen-adharas-application-and-effects

The moon phases also show up in the Daoist body chart called the Xiuzhen Tu that seems to have a similar pattern (new moon/full moon) see the  text diagram for cultivating perfection.  New moon is at perineum, full moon at topknot, waxing phases up the du and waning down the ren. Specific different practices are timed with new and full moons.

 

Not the same but some parallels. 

Edited yesterday at 07:07 PM by Sahaja

[Lairg]

On 10/12/2025 at 4:18 AM, Cobie said:

None of these systems are real. They are ‘boats’ to be discarded when ‘job done’. 

 

The conceptual systems provide maps.  But the map is not the territory.

 

The territory is a complex system of intelligences and energies that more or less connect the human into the Cosmos

 

Many of those intelligences and energies are not meeting their design specifications and it is for the human to resolve/heal the various situations

 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

The conceptual systems provide maps.  But the map is not the territory.

 

 

 

Exactly.

[ChiDragon]

It seems like this dantian(丹田) thing will never go away. We just can't settle it once and for all.