Why is Buddhism so complicated?

[Gerard]

The REAL YOU is not even here, so why bother with all the complex talk about nirvana, suffering, cause and effect, sunyata (emptiness), dependent origination, etc.

 

Same goes with Taoism. Tao ---> yin & yang and the creative action of the five forces. That's it. Stop there and don't make things more complicated.

 

Really:

 

We for once are only spiritual beings having a human experience now and as long as you have tentacles left you will carry on with the vital experience. Once the tentacles are all gone you remain in a state of Tao/nirvana as you have always been from the VERY BEGINNING.

 

 

[Lairg]

14 minutes ago, Gerard said:

The REAL YOU is not even here, so why bother with all the complex talk about nirvana, suffering, cause and effect

 

Why does the Real You bother with generating a line of human incarnations?

 

If the Real You has a purpose then presumably it wants its various human incarnations to contribute.

 

So how can the human incarnations be assisted?   Would some instructions help?

 

Do some spirits object to the intended purposes of humans?  Do they provide adverse instructions?

 

 

The stages of enlightenment are usually described as a bottom-up view.   From a top-down view they are progressive stages of incarnation of the Real You

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:09 AM by Lairg

[Mark Foote]

15 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

The REAL YOU is not even here, so why bother with all the complex talk about nirvana, suffering, cause and effect, sunyata (emptiness), dependent origination, etc.

 

Same goes with Taoism. Tao ---> yin & yang and the creative action of the five forces. That's it. Stop there and don't make things more complicated.

 

Really:

 

We for once are only spiritual beings having a human experience now and as long as you have tentacles left you will carry on with the vital experience. Once the tentacles are all gone you remain in a state of Tao/nirvana as you have always been from the VERY BEGINNING.

 

 

My take:

 

The movement of breath can necessitate the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.

 

When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention draws out thoughts initial and sustained, and brings on the stages of concentration.

 

To become aware of the placement of attention, willful activity in the body must be abandoned, even in the face of a stoppage of breath:
 

Be like a person who has died the great death: after your breath is cut off, then you come back to life.

 

(“Zen Letters: Teachings of Yuanwu”, tr. J.C. and Thomas Cleary, p 84)

 

The “great death” is an adherence to the abandonment of activity in the body, regardless of the consequences. The idea, however, is not to die of suffocation, but to relax and discover the automatic activity of the body that occurs through the placement of attention, to “come back to life”.

 

… there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen.

 

(Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com)

 

 

[Cobie]

 

16 hours ago, Gerard said:

The REAL YOU is not even here, so why bother with all the complex talk about nirvana, suffering, cause and effect, sunyata (emptiness), dependent origination, etc.

 

Same goes with Taoism. Tao ---> yin & yang and the creative action of the five forces. That's it. Stop there and don't make things more complicated.….

I agree. Imo the truth is simple. So I rarely engage with overly convoluted theories.

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:53 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

17 hours ago, Gerard said:

… the creative action of the five forces ..

 

imo:

this whole system of the 5 movements never had any reality, it’s total BS.
It was a later faulty interpretation of the ‘4 directions + me’ (the person as the central 5th element).

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/56502-pentagon-game/?do=findComment&comment=1048539 

 

Edited Monday at 11:05 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

16 hours ago, Gerard said:

… We for once are only spiritual beings having a human experience now and as long as you have tentacles left you will carry on with the vital experience. Once the tentacles are all gone you remain in a state of Tao/nirvana as you have always been from the VERY BEGINNING.

 

I totally agree. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:56 PM by Cobie

[forestofclarity]

It's not. 

[Krenx]

The way out is hard to see. Not anyone can realize the "way". It is more likely we automatically continue this suffering and delusion, ignorance. This is the nature of craving, ignorance, and the traps in the world. 

 

If we were already liberated, we would not suffer. But we suffer. So there is a path that is required to be taken. 

 

We are lucky the knowledge of the dhamma still exist in the world re discovered by a recent Buddha. This fortune does not come by often in the universe. 

[Gerard]

On 9/9/2025 at 8:45 AM, Cobie said:

 

 

I totally agree. 

 

 

 

i had to check if quantum mechanics reached a similar conclusion based on my own experience. 

 

Yes they have:

 

If this quantum theory of consciousness tied to microtubules turns out to be correct, it could revolutionize our understanding of consciousness and even strengthen the trailblazing theory that, on a quantum level, consciousness is capable of being in all places at the same time.

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a62373322/quantum-theory-of-consciousness/

 

This means we are all living our reincarnations/life cycles all at once!

 

It makes sense to me. The real, ultimate experience is in the infinite and ever lasting state of Tao, which we are all part of.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:18 AM by Gerard

[Gerard]

On 9/9/2025 at 8:09 AM, Cobie said:

 

 

imo:

this whole system of the 5 movements never had any reality, it’s total BS.
 

 

 

 Those Five Forces are very real; from their subtlety they are the power manifestations of the yin & yang. 
 

Rise...Water

Expand...Wood

Flare up...Fire

Sink...Metal

Balance & Harmony...Earth

 

Or if you like the analogy of the rotating ball (yin & yang interplay):

 

1. Ball gathers energy (water).

2. Ball is thrown and starts generating energy (wood). 
3. Ball reaches its peak (fire)

4. Ball starts a phase of integrity and harmony of the entire system (earth), which is the ball itself

5. Ball then starts decelerating (metal) before retuning to its negative peak (water)

 

Then the cycle starts all over again and so forth, infinitely. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:16 AM by Gerard

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

This means we are all living our reincarnations/life cycles all at once!

 

I find I often have dreams of myself on parallel timelines.   On awakening I look around nearby timelines and put the dream next to them  looking for a match.  Usually the match is obvious

 

It seems that parallel processing occurs in nature

 

Just as well

 

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Krenx said:

If we were already liberated, we would not suffer.

 

I am not sure that is true.

 

It seems to me that the essence of karma is that some greater  being (e.g. galactic Logos) is pained by the improper actions of lesser beings.

 

Thus there is karmic pressure to reduce the wrong energies/relationships/intent

 

 

[Tommy]

Why is Buddhism so complicated?

 

Sorry, did not read all the post prior. To me, Buddhism is as simple as one wants it to be. Four Noble Truths and the eightfold path to get there. This lends itself to a layman's life and doesn't complicate it with unnatural rituals. When one seeks further knowledge of Buddhism, it gets a bit more complex. Karma, wisdom and compassion, enlightenment and nirvana, life and rebirth, practice comes a complex set of ideas about Buddhism. All that stuff only seems to feed into the mind which keeps one locked into this conventional world. If however, we drop the thinking mind then supposedly the true nature of ourselves open up to us. There is no need to learn about no self or rebirth or God or any of the skandhas or karma. Just seems like more stuff to get caught up in. Like the web of a spider. One line leads to the next. So, to answer the question of why is Buddhism so complicated? It is because people want it to be that way. Bodhidharma's example was to sit in a cave for 9 years. Not pour over texts and sutras.

 

Yeah, I am not well versed in the sutras and little knowledge of Buddhism. So, my opinion doesn't really matter. And like everything else, take it with a grain or two of salt.

[Krenx]

11 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

I am not sure that is true.

 

It seems to me that the essence of karma is that some greater  being (e.g. galactic Logos) is pained by the improper actions of lesser beings.

 

Thus there is karmic pressure to reduce the wrong energies/relationships/intent

 

 

 

There is a pressure. Being suffer that pressure. And beings try all kinds of methods to resolve this pressure with two main ways.

 

First method is to feed that craving, to equalize it temporarily. For example we feel craving for candy, we eat candy. We satisfy that craving temporarily. But this method leads a person to become more ignorance and increase liability to the pressure on the future. It makes it worse, it can get worse. It is only resolved temperorily, leading to an increase of craving in the future. 

 

The other method is to see the roots of this pressure, this suffering. And use wisdom and skillful actions to uproot it entirely. So this method, the person craves for candy, they see craving, they realize with wisdom and knowledge that this "pressure to get rid of craving" is a SIGN that craving is unpleasant. If it was not unpleasant, one would not have the urge to end it. And the nuanced task is to not enable it more by feeding its wishes. One abandons it by abandoning it, and not be involved with it, and what it wants you to do. Conditions for craving are gradually starved. 

 

It is not obvious or intuitive to most people that the 2nd option is ideal for your well-being. It is difficult, it is a permanent commitment once undertaken. It leads to abandoning the entire world. It is not a worldly pursuit. 

 

People don't let go of the world that easily. But it is in our potential to do so. Potential as as far as you can claim. You cannot really claim that everyone is headed towards liberation. Just looking around, is not apparent at all, and it was not apparent to Buddha himself when he observed the world.  

Edited Wednesday at 10:34 PM by Krenx

[SodaChanh]

Just rest in the view of no view. 

 

In the resting bring in all sentient beings and have compassion for them. 

 

Job done.