elephant in the room

[Mark Foote]

15 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

"Therefore, it is said:
"Those who implemented the Tao
Did not use it to make the people shrewd;
Rather, they used it to make them simple."
The reason why the people are difficult to rule
Is that they are crafty.
Therefore, using craft to govern a state
Is a pest to the state;
Using noncraft to govern a state
Is a blessing to the state.
Constantly remember: these two constitute a guideline;
Constantly remembering this guideline
Is called a deep and remote virtue.
The deep and remote virtue
Is deep indeed, remote indeed;
And, though contrary to all things,
Will eventually reach Grand Harmony."
-  Translated by Chichung Huang, Chapter 65

 

 

 

How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen Paree!

 

"Using noncraft to govern a state"--a kind of "not doing", I'm sure. That's the proper subject of Dao Bums in my opinion, how that not-doing is done. The rest, as DDJ makes clear, takes care of itself.

 

 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Being a mod is like having hemorrhoids you tend to sit on problems till they burst out and make you feel sore.  Even trips to the doctors can leave you feeling degraded ... unless the doctor likes you that is.  Then it's all ok.

 

 

 

Jeeeze !  

 

and I only compared him to an old and cantankerous person ! 

 

Maybe you can tell me what 'account restricted ' means  .. without the modern 'evasive speech ' form  ?  I sent him a PM  but I have no idea if he can access it . I checked his posting record and there are no posts  , either   cut out or doesn't want to ?  

 

If one gets 'account restricted'  and not 'banned ' or 'suspended '  ... what functions can they use here that are not restricted  ....  or has everything been 'restricted'  for him  ? 

 

That cant be too painfully  to answer can it  ? 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

This forum (and others online) sometimes makes me incredibly sad. This is a forum of dedicated spiritual practitioners and yet we cannot get along or act like adults in the most simplistic sense: i.e., refrain from insults, refrain from trolling others, try not to hurt people, or follow a few simple rules. Creating a post takes time and can be edited or removed. Everything here is entirely intentional. 

 

So if this is the best we can do, well, no wonder the world is in the shape it's in. 

 

 

 

C'est la vie .  There is now TWO elephants in the room .  

 

Dedicated spiritual practitioners ?  Like I said earlier .... ever been in a monastery ?  Was there a political element and infighting ? If there was not , or even if it had a leader with no faults , please tell me where it is !  

 

THAT    IS  human nature .  All we can do is address the problem .  

 

have you read this  ? 

 

Edited June 19 by Nungali

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

A "constantly" from me is not so, Jesus Christ. 

 

Ahhh ... a hint about what  'restricted  account ' could mean  . 

 

Did you get 'unrestricted ' or is this still part of your restriction ?  

 

( Damn !  I wanted to find and post an image of a guy being boa constricted by a HUGE boa and only one arm out and typing on a keyboard  ... no luck , you will have to visualize it )  

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

The frontpages here are shocking to me, seems to me it's now all about the threat of war and the need to increase spending on arms. To be honest I am not coping well with it, so I have decided to limit the attention I give it. 

 

 

 

You see Cobie ... sometimes people just NEED to burst out here .

 

and no, I didn't you report you for it .      .... but I won't feed  'IT' either . 

 

Instead :  

 

Good idea if you are not coping , go and do something else that gives you joy  ... keep well . 

 

( see .... no need to keep up the political banter , but we can still acknowledge one's issues and try to help with that .  )

Edited June 19 by Nungali

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

Easy with the half-cocked accusations @Nungali

I'm not a mod, did nothing but post my reply here, and I certainly did not report any of his posts.

I like old3bob, regardless of our differences, and posted what I did in support of him, and the rest of us.

 

 

sorry doc  ... when I said "you" it was a collective 'you' and I didn't mean you personally so I should have been more mindful in what I wrote  under a quoted post from you .

 

Actually, I think you understand my approach *  better than most 

 

* see above post .

[Apech]

39 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Jeeeze !  

 

and I only compared him to an old and cantankerous person ! 

 

Maybe you can tell me what 'account restricted ' means  .. without the modern 'evasive speech ' form  ?  I sent him a PM  but I have no idea if he can access it . I checked his posting record and there are no posts  , either   cut out or doesn't want to ?  

 

If one gets 'account restricted'  and not 'banned ' or 'suspended '  ... what functions can they use here that are not restricted  ....  or has everything been 'restricted'  for him  ? 

 

That cant be too painfully  to answer can it  ? 

It means that to post on the board - his posts require a mod to approve them.  He should be able to get PMs though and reply as normal.

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

It means that to post on the board - his posts require a mod to approve them.  He should be able to get PMs though and reply as normal.

 

It is a lot of workload.  So who is being punished, Bob or the poor mod?  

[liminal_luke]

People are sensitive and rarely take kindly to any perceived slights of dignity.  I´ll be surprised if Old3bob is willing to post much at all under the current conditions.  Nice that he can still use the private message function though to keep in touch with those he´s close to.

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

It is a lot of workload.  So who is being punished, Bob or the poor mod?  

 

 

Everyone   ?   

 

 

.

 

Edited June 21 by Nungali

[liminal_luke]

@Apech @stirling

 

Question for Mods: Is discussion of current events and politics allowed within one´s PPJ?

[Apech]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

@Apech @stirling

 

Question for Mods: Is discussion of current events and politics allowed within one´s PPJ?

Thank you Luke for asking a difficult question to which as far as I can see there is no clear answer 😀

 

Personal practice is generally self moderated and while the purpose is to record your thoughts arising from your practice - if those thoughts included some political musings then I guess that would be up to you.  Except to say our dear leader’s edict of no right wing bullshit would still apply (as that is his wish to expunge all right wing thought from the board).  So I guess that within bounds it might be ok.

 

Despite what people may believe the general purpose of moderation is to make DBs a pleasant and ‘safe’ place for all to post.  Experience has shown that political debate on here is often quite angry and unharmonious giving rise to lots of reports and antagonism.  It also seems to suck energy from the main purpose of the board to discuss Daoism etc.  

 

I think it is fair to say that we have done our best to try to strike a balance on this.  But maybe there’s a strong feeling amongst members that they want to ‘have at it’ with political debate(?).  
 

I don’t know the perfect answer to this and I think any positive suggestions would be welcome 🙏 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

Thanks, @Apech.  While I don´t agree with every mod decision, I trust that the mods want what is best for the forum and are doing their darndest to make it happen. 

 

My own interest is not so much in discussing Current Events per se, so much as the emotional and mental health issues that swirl around the subject.  How connected do we feel to ourselves and the larger community?  Are ideological divisions wrecking havoc on families and friendships?  Is it possible -- or desirable -- to feel a sense of kinship with those who think differently than ourselves?  This is my particular bag.  Whether or not other people care to discuss these kinds of topics I don´t know.

[Nungali]

On 6/22/2025 at 1:53 AM, Apech said:

Thank you Luke for asking a difficult question to which as far as I can see there is no clear answer 😀

 

Personal practice is generally self moderated and while the purpose is to record your thoughts arising from your practice - if those thoughts included some political musings then I guess that would be up to you.  Except to say our dear leader’s edict of no right wing bullshit would still apply (as that is his wish to expunge all right wing thought from the board).  So I guess that within bounds it might be ok.

 

Despite what people may believe the general purpose of moderation is to make DBs a pleasant and ‘safe’ place for all to post.  Experience has shown that political debate on here is often quite angry and unharmonious giving rise to lots of reports and antagonism.  It also seems to suck energy from the main purpose of the board to discuss Daoism etc.  

 

I think it is fair to say that we have done our best to try to strike a balance on this.  But maybe there’s a strong feeling amongst members that they want to ‘have at it’ with political debate(?).  
 

I don’t know the perfect answer to this and I think any positive suggestions would be welcome 🙏 

 

 

 

First, thank you for supporting Sean's directive . 

 

The answers I see  are to make a 'pit' like before or restrict it ( political discussions I mean ) to one's PP .... BUT 

 

I don't think that would  help the other issue you mention of   sucking energy from the purpose of the board S . 

 

For the moment , I  try to deal with it like I have with Oldbob  and  Coby's  'breakouts ' .  Try to address their concerns  and hear them but try not to feed it by talking politics back . 

 

One can always address their concerns via PM . 

 

I agree with Sean that it has gone beyond politics though  ... when somethings are downright wrong,  stupid and   'all DK '   ( decay +  Dunning Krugger effect )    they can not be excused by claiming they are a ' political flavor ' ...that is  just as self-evident to me ( and others ) as it is to Sean . 

 

Its intense times and will get more intense  ( phase two has started  now ,  since yesterdays events  ... and they chose my birthday to start it on  ... ho-hum !  )   so we can expect some 'stress relief ' posts appearing . 

[Nungali]

On 6/22/2025 at 2:13 AM, liminal_luke said:

Thanks, @Apech.  While I don´t agree with every mod decision, I trust that the mods want what is best for the forum and are doing their darndest to make it happen. 

 

My own interest is not so much in discussing Current Events per se, so much as the emotional and mental health issues that swirl around the subject.  How connected do we feel to ourselves and the larger community?  Are ideological divisions wrecking havoc on families and friendships?  Is it possible -- or desirable -- to feel a sense of kinship with those who think differently than ourselves?  This is my particular bag.  Whether or not other people care to discuss these kinds of topics I don´t know.

 

I saw a recent interview with  an American  political correspondent  ... he suggested a lot is due to media and media should ask  supporters of views they interview to  to explain the opposite view to them accurately - they can dispute it, deride it , disagree with it , but 'can you explain the other view to us please ' .  

 

Curious idea , I wonder what the results would be ?  

[zerostao]

Speaking of "cooked" or half cooked;

It's gonna be hot out there, been hot, 

How hot is it?

 

https://www.ky3.com/2025/06/23/cape-girardeau-mo-road-buckles-heat/

 

https://www.newsweek.com/nws-predicts-two-states-temperatures-hot-death-valley-2089325

 

When it gets hotter than the hottest place on Earth, that's hot.

 

Sometimes, maybe, I wish I was down under, this time of year .

Instead, here I am, sitting, sipping a fresh brewed steaming cup of coffee, 

Cheers!

 

 

[Nungali]

We had a 'cold snap'   and I was thinking " I wonder who is getting the opposing heat ? "   Then I saw it on the news .  This often happens ,  its a heat wave here , then I watch the news and some place is having an extraordinary 'cold bubble ' .

 

Apparently another one is coming , they come up in waves from Antarctica .  I am far enough north for it not to be too bad .  MY friend recently moved south .   She is a  Gurudjigan  ( training to be an indigenous healer and herbalist ) and her  elderly Aboriginal  teacher 'auntie'  got older and more infirm , it got to the stage where she was finding it difficult to lift one piece of firewood to feed the fire . So she is down there 'chopping wood and carrying water ' , she told me every morning  all is white and  covered with frost and she sleeps in an old broken down bus with no heating  .....  brrrrrrr  .   I guess ... she will be there until ......  ?  

 

 

[doc benway]

On 6/19/2025 at 7:29 PM, Nungali said:

have you read this  ? 

 

 

I generally like Eco’s writing but when I finished this book I have the vivid recollection of promising myself to never again force myself to finish a book if I’m not enjoying it.

[BigSkyDiamond]

5 hours ago, doc benway said:

when I finished this book I have the vivid recollection of promising myself to never again force myself to finish a book if I’m not enjoying it.

 

my brother and i are polar opposites in pretty much  everything including this.  He is the kid who growing up when we were in grade school so about age 9 to 11 or so, he would come home from school and sit down to (i kid you not) read the encyclopedia for fun.  The hardcover World Book Encyclopedia (22 volumes), he started with the first volume "A" and read straight through start to finish.  And then when we were in university, what did he do in the summer?  He would read ALL the books that he did not get to or did not finish, from ALL the courses he took that year in college.  Even though the courses were over and done.  Even if the subject matter did not interest him.

 

This always baffled me.  If he started a book, then he finished it.  According to him "that's what you do."  Whereas if i start a book and don't like it i just toss it aside.  He sees this as a moral failing (he sees my entire life as a moral failing but that's another story, like i said we disagree on basically everything). I'm not sure if reading for fun exists in his vocabulary or in his brain.  It has served him well though in his profession, he is an attorney.  It fits his aggressive argumentative caustic persona to a tee, as does his unbending conviction that he is always right.  about everything. and he can prove it.  As an adult i find him quite scary and keep my distance.

Edited Thursday at 06:22 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[liminal_luke]

39 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

  He sees this as a moral failing (he sees my entire life as a moral failing but that's another story, like i said we disagree on basically everything). 

 

The way I figure, pointing out other people´s alledged moral failings is a moral failing.  (Oops!)

 

I´m grappling with the enjoyment question in my reading right now -- should I try to read difficult books that maybe I don´t enjoy so much because they´ll stretch my mind or be somehow virtuous?  Or should I take the life-is-short approach and just read what makes me happy?  Curiously, I was a very literary teen.  In high school I read Moby Dick and The Brothers Karamazov and lots of Steinbeck -- for fun -- but now I mostly read crime thrillers.  There´s a popular thread on the forum dedicated to the books "on our bookshelf" and it´s chock full of erudite tomes on spiritual topics and great literature, not a Jack Reacher novel in sight.  Surely I´m not the only Bum who enjoys reading about street brawling tough guys?  

 

 

[Cobie]

 

49 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

my brother … i find him quite scary and keep my distance.

I have the same. 

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

55 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The way I figure, pointing out other people´s alledged moral failings is a moral failing.  (Oops!)

 

I´m grappling with the enjoyment question in my reading right now -- should I try to read difficult books that maybe I don´t enjoy so much because they´ll stretch my mind or be somehow virtuous?  Or should I take the life-is-short approach and just read what makes me happy?  Curiously, I was a very literary teen.  In high school I read Moby Dick and The Brothers Karamazov and lots of Steinbeck -- for fun -- but now I mostly read crime thrillers.  There´s a popular thread on the forum dedicated to the books "on our bookshelf" and it´s chock full of erudite tomes on spiritual topics and great literature, not a Jack Reacher novel in sight.  Surely I´m not the only Bum who enjoys reading about street brawling tough guys?  

 

 

 

ah yes, the erudite tomes on the other thread.

curiously there is no thread on how many hours a day a person spends on Netflix and how many shows are on the "my watch list."  There are 72 shows ready for me to watch.  My fun reading is not even reading, my fun reading is pure Netflix.  i love the post above !!!

[liminal_luke]

21 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

ah yes, the erudite tomes on the other thread.

curiously there is no thread on how many hours a day a person spends on Netflix and how many shows are on the "my watch list."  There are 72 shows ready for me to watch.  My fun reading is not even reading, my fun reading is pure Netflix.  i love the post above !!!

 

Don´t even get me started on my TV watching habits.  My tastes are decidedly low-brow, although in my defense I´ll mention that, try as I might, I couldn´t make it past episode two of Dating Naked.

[BigSkyDiamond]

Until the long awaited seson 4 of Single's Infergno airs, i am biding my time with Ultimatum Queer Love, .  I've just about given up on Married at First Sight, but still am riveted by Love is Blind, and wish they would do another Love is Blind Japan and add Korea.  Season 2 Love is Blind UK  will be a treat.  And I liked Love Never Lies Poland and South Africa were a cut above Love never Lies Sardinia.

Edited Thursday at 08:45 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Apech]

2 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

Until the long awaited seson 4 of Single's Infergno airs, i am biding my time with Ultimatum Queer Love, .  I've just about given up on Married at First Sight, but still am riveted by Love is Blind, and wish they would do another Love is Blind Japan and add Korea.  Season 2 Love is Blind UK  will be a treat.  And I liked Love Never Lies Poland and South Africa were a cut above Love never Lies Sardinia.

 

OMG!  I thought I was talking to highbrow people