Transgender Q&A

[Apech]

29 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Oh geez I wish I did. I've read so many of them I just remember coming across this one time a few years ago.

Anyway I’ve lost my budh it has been announced.

[Zorro Dantes]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

It's not a philosophy. It's an existence. I think that's where you're confused

Exactly 😜 this kind way of going about things is rooted in my peoples prehistoric warrior ways.

it is deliverance through cultivation of Shakti, sacrificing thunder for lightning…to light that ass up. 🪬🍑⚡️❤️‍🔥

I mean her majesty Kuan Yin is both and neither too I believe 🤔

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

...

 

Edited out.  What can I say -- sometimes ya feel like a TERF, sometimes ya don´t.

 

 

 

 

yeah well, it is like that, sometimes.

 

but listen: I have a brother that identifies as lefthanded, do we accept that he identifies that way? or did he choose to be different.

I get fed up with people who feel the need to identify different then the rest of us.

 

( I still hear him saying, after he got his first lefthanded pair of scissors: oh wow... cutting is not hard at all, being left handed used to come with a lot of pain and low selfesteem.)

 

Trans people have a deep feeling of not being home in their body, I am one of them but I do have a problem. Not with trans people as I perceive them as kin.

Whether they want or do surgery is up to them, once they are grownup, just like Brazilian butt lifts, mommy-makeovers and nosejobs and abdominal etching for the guys. It's not my thing but when people are allowed to get extra big tits surgically, why not allow them to have them removed. 

 

( and I am happy that in my time surgery and such was impossible, glad the temptation was not there when I was young)

 

What worries me is that nowadays they teach in schools that you can become whatever gender you like. That is wrong, I never chose my gender, it chose me and it was no party, it was a goddam struggle. Always to be the weird one, not to fit in, for teens that is the important thing.

Not knowing why you feel that way, never even knowing that you're not alone, that there are more people out there like you. I was happy when the current generation changed that

-----

 

Teaching like that will inevitably lead to youngsters " choosing" to be trans and getting hurt in the process.

It's not "you can choose whatever you like", its: people are male or female, a very small proportion of people are born a little different, something went awry during pregnancy, those we call intersex people and there are also people who are sure that their body does not correspond with how they feel, that's called trans. On average there's one of those in every school.

 

that's enough for education, just mentioning it exists is enough, those who recognize themselves will pick it up, for the rest it's just a detail easily forgotten.

 

I do not know how the current line of teaching  happened to land in the curriculum, but it's wrong, factually wrong and morally wrong and in the long run its bad for the well being of people like Maddie and me too, as people are right to not want that and they will take it out on transpeople.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by blue eyed snake
removed some double words

[blue eyed snake]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

I feel like any sincere question is reasonable here for the most part since that was the whole point of this thread. 

 

The Buddha actually said that one of the things that determines the gender that someone is born as is the type of identification that they clung to in their past life. He said there was a male identifying mind and a female identifying mind. It's interesting that he always spoke of it as the mind and not the body. He said at some point a male identifying mind can change to a female identifying mind and that a female identifying mind can change to a male identifying mind.

 

As far as energy goes if we're using energy to describe psychological traits I can say I've definitely become more gentle and sensitive and compassionate since I started transitioning and taking female hormones.

 

 

I seem to remember that the Torah or adjacent scripture mentions 6 or maybe 8 genders 🤔

[blue eyed snake]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

@Maddie

 

Given this is a forum dedicated to energy arts (for want of a better term) isn't it a reasonable question to ask what happens energetically when you transition - and in particular how changes in the physical body produce a change in the subtle body?

 

Also from the point of view of rebirth/reincarnation - doesn't this contextualise the instance of being born in the wrong body in one particular incarnation.

 

Do you have any thoughts on this?

 

 

 

 

interesting questions

 

when you super oversimplify Neigong you could say that getting the lower dantien up and running is hard for guys as they tend to run after their dicks. For women it's a lot easier to get the LDT in working order.

 

But for women it's hard to get the middle dantien "working' ( for want of a better word) as they tend to run after their feelings.

 

So when you're cultivating in a group you'll see the ladies outperforming the men at first and then when the guys have picked up they see the ladies struggling with something that's easy for them, more or less.

 

I've always suspected that these things are strongly correlated to hormones

 

 

[liminal_luke]

@blue eyed snake

 

Totally agree that people cannot choose.  If I told you that I am a transgender woman that would be a lie.  I am not and cannot become one by announcement.  In general, I trust adults who say they are transgender.  I trust you and Maddie.  But of course there are people who will lie for nefarious reasons and that´s a problem, for all of us, but especially for people who are legitimately trans.  

 

I don´t know the emotional discomfort of feeling like I was born in the wrong body.  That´s never been a part of my experience so I can´t claim to know what it´s like.  I do know many other kinds of lonliness and alienation as those are universal human experiences.  I believe trans people when they tell me that it´s painful being in the wrong body, sometimes very painful.  I hope that trans people everywhere can feel comfortable with themselves and society at large, and if social or medical transitioning helps then I´m all for it.  We´re all just trying to be happy. 

 

I try, in general, not to be an asshole.  A big part of that is not judging people when I don´t know anything about their circumstances.  So I try not to judge people who look different than I do or want to use alternative pronouns.  I´ll admit to a bit of discomfort around a few of the less conventional pronouns but, what can I say, I´m a work in progress.

 

At the same time, I hope there´s room for people who think that people are (mostly) born male or female, and that physical anatomy is what makes the difference.  People ought to be able to say that without incurring moral scorn.  I can think that people remain the gender they are "assigned at birth" and still be a good person.  To me, it´s just a matter of what definitions we are choosing to use.  

 

Question: Am I morally required to see people as they see themselves?    

Edited April 17 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

18 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

interesting questions

 

when you super oversimplify Neigong you could say that getting the lower dantien up and running is hard for guys as they tend to run after their dicks. For women it's a lot easier to get the LDT in working order.

 

But for women it's hard to get the middle dantien "working' ( for want of a better word) as they tend to run after their feelings.

 

So when you're cultivating in a group you'll see the ladies outperforming the men at first and then when the guys have picked up they see the ladies struggling with something that's easy for them, more or less.

 

I've always suspected that these things are strongly correlated to hormones

 

 

I’d never thought of it that way round 

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

@blue eyed snake

 

Totally agree that people cannot choose.  If I told you that I am a transgender woman that would be a lie.  I am not and cannot become one by announcement.  In general, I trust adults who say they are transgender.  I trust you and Maddie.  But of course there are people who will lie for nefarious reasons and that´s a problem, for all of us, but especially for people who are legitimately trans.  

 

I don´t know the emotional discomfort of feeling like I was born in the wrong body.  That´s never been a part of my experience so I can´t claim to know what it´s like.  I do know many other kinds of lonliness and alienation as those are universal human experiences.  I believe trans people when they tell me that it´s painful being in the wrong body, sometimes very painful.  I hope that trans people everywhere can feel comfortable with themselves and society at large, and if social or medical transitioning helps then I´m all for it.  We´re all just trying to be happy. 

 

I try, in general, not to be an asshole.  A big part of that is not judging people when I don´t know anything about their circumstances.  So I try not to judge people who look different than I do or want to use alternative pronouns.  I´ll admit to a bit of discomfort around a few of the less conventional pronouns but, what can I say, I´m a work in progress.

 

At the same time, I hope there´s room for people who think that people are (mostly) born male or female, and that physical anatomy is what makes the difference.  People ought to be able to say that without incurring moral scorn.  I can think that people remain the gender they are "assigned at birth" and still be a good person.  To me, it´s just a matter of what definitions we are choosing to use.  

 

Question: Am I morally required to see people as they see themselves?    

No because some people are delusional and/ or dishonest - so why would you see them as they see themselves?

I think being kind is moral - which involves respecting others - but beyond that you have to be true to yourself.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

It's not a philosophy. It's an existence. I think that's where you're confused.

The question "what is gender" was always deeply philosophical to me. It's unclear whether gender is an existential phenomena or made up mental thing. Even to answer that one, one has to do deep inquiry. And I use inquiry synonymously with philosophy here.

 

Perhaps it would right to say. Transgenderism is both existencial and philosophical exploration.

Edited April 17 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

It's not a philosophy. It's an existence. I think that's where you're confused.

Also transgenderism is being justified using intellectual thought system. The validity of the thought system can be questioned imo. And should. If you're genuinely interested in Truth. That's a big if tho. 

Edited April 17 by Salvijus

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Also transgenderism is being justified using intellectual thought system. The validity of the thought system can be questioned imo. And should. If you're genuinely interested in Truth. That's a big if tho. 

 

You make it sound like it's a problem that needs to be solved when it's not.

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

@blue eyed snake

 

Question: Am I morally required to see people as they see themselves?    

 

I doubt any of us see ourselves the way other people see us. That being said I doubt it's even possible to see somebody as they see themselves. It's not what's required. I would just say it's a good to be respectful of other people which you definitely seem to be.

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

interesting questions

 

when you super oversimplify Neigong you could say that getting the lower dantien up and running is hard for guys as they tend to run after their dicks. For women it's a lot easier to get the LDT in working order.

 

But for women it's hard to get the middle dantien "working' ( for want of a better word) as they tend to run after their feelings.

 

So when you're cultivating in a group you'll see the ladies outperforming the men at first and then when the guys have picked up they see the ladies struggling with something that's easy for them, more or less.

 

I've always suspected that these things are strongly correlated to hormones

 

 

 

I find this interesting because back when I was doing these kinds of practices I thought the LDT was relatively simple to access and activate but I always have had a lot of issue with the MDT but I had never heard anyone articulate this and it's interesting to think about now.

[Salvijus]

8 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

You make it sound like it's a problem that needs to be solved when it's not.

I think it's a personal choice. Some want to dig deep and find the truth of the matter. Others don't care. Others would prefer not to know, for the answer might actually be something they don't want to hear. 

Edited April 17 by Salvijus

[blue eyed snake]

7 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I think it's a personal choice. Some want to dig deep and find the truth of the matter. Others don't care. Others would prefer not to know, for the answer might actually be something they don't want to hear. 

 

it's not, it's also not a personal choice for people to be lefthanded, or colorblind. 

 

when you still think being trans is a personal choice maybe take some lessons in reading comprehension, or on empathy, or being less judgmental. 

 

 

 

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

it's not, it's also not a personal choice for people to be lefthanded, or colorblind. 

 

when you still think being trans is a personal choice maybe take some lessons in reading comprehension, or on empathy, or being less judgmental. 

 

 

 

I didn't say transgenderism is a choice. I've sayed how deep an individual wants to question the philosophical/existencial nature of Transgenderism is a choice. 

Edited April 17 by Salvijus

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

@blue eyed snake

 

Totally agree that people cannot choose.  If I told you that I am a transgender woman that would be a lie.  I am not and cannot become one by announcement.  In general, I trust adults who say they are transgender.  I trust you and Maddie.  But of course there are people who will lie for nefarious reasons and that´s a problem, for all of us, but especially for people who are legitimately trans.  

 

it's a mess and all kinds of people have jumped on the bandwagon, to the detriment of us all.

some years ago i was contemplating to come out of the closet, but now I won't.

 

I do not like the term trans-people either. For myself it feels like two spirit people fits me, in modern terms I guess that would be nonbinary

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I don´t know the emotional discomfort of feeling like I was born in the wrong body.  That´s never been a part of my experience so I can´t claim to know what it´s like.  I do know many other kinds of lonliness and alienation as those are universal human experiences.  I believe trans people when they tell me that it´s painful being in the wrong body, sometimes very painful.  I hope that trans people everywhere can feel comfortable with themselves and society at large, and if social or medical transitioning helps then I´m all for it.  We´re all just trying to be happy. 

 

You've your own set of troubles and we all have. We also all like to have some recognition, especially friends who sort understand how we feel. There's totally no need to compare, loneliness and alienations seem to be part of the human condition.

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I try, in general, not to be an asshole.  A big part of that is not judging people when I don´t know anything about their circumstances.  So I try not to judge people who look different than I do or want to use alternative pronouns.  I´ll admit to a bit of discomfort around a few of the less conventional pronouns but, what can I say, I´m a work in progress.

 

you're doing very well not being an asshole mister meerkat, you being the opposite of that.

 

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

At the same time, I hope there´s room for people who think that people are (mostly) born male or female, and that physical anatomy is what makes the difference.  People ought to be able to say that without incurring moral scorn.  I can think that people remain the gender they are "assigned at birth" and still be a good person.  To me, it´s just a matter of what definitions we are choosing to use.  

 

when saying that earns you moral scorn there's something wrong, not with you i mean.

 

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Question: Am I morally required to see people as they see themselves?    

 

No, of course not.

I know someone who sees himself as a misfit, self esteem so low you have to stoop to see it. Lovely guy, not much wrong with him that I can see, smart, lots of booklearning, Someone I can strike of real conversations with.

It would feel very bad to see him as he sees him self and i would not do him justice.

Or that person with a size 10 ego walking in a pair size 6 shoes, I will not see them as they see themselves, au contraire.

----

morals...

 

once after  I had struggled with something as a kid, that something being morals and no god or bible as a guideline I told my mom how I had solved it and she said: the important thing is that when you go to bed at night you can look into the mirror and not feel shame about your behavior. Even when a lot of people were angry at you today, you made a perfectly thought out decision from the kindness of your heart. They just did not understand you.

 

That line still serves me

[Salvijus]

I think this is a good place for me to end. 

 

Thank you for participating in this exchange with me. I believe it was worthwhile for those participating. 

 

Thank you again. And tcare 

Bye 👋 

A special good bye to thunder aswell. 🙏

 No need to carry hard feelings. It's not healthy. Bye bye yall ✌️

Edited April 17 by Salvijus

[liminal_luke]

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 For myself it feels like two spirit people fits me, in modern terms I guess that would be nonbinary

 

 

As you might guess from my name, I´m a big fan of in-between states and ambiguity.  I think that´s where the power is.

[blue eyed snake]

56 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I find this interesting because back when I was doing these kinds of practices I thought the LDT was relatively simple to access and activate but I always have had a lot of issue with the MDT but I had never heard anyone articulate this and it's interesting to think about now.

 

that was after you transitioned? or before?

[Maddie]

34 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

that was after you transitioned? or before?

Before. My energy has always been feminine. I got told I was girly all the time as a kid in school.

Edited April 17 by Maddie

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

I didn't say transgenderism is a choice. I've sayed how deep an individual wants to question the philosophical/existencial nature of Transgenderism is a choice. 

 

Sometimes the things just are.

[Maddie]

38 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

As you might guess from my name, I´m a big fan of in-between states and ambiguity.  I think that´s where the power is.

Wu wei  ☯️ 

[Maddie]

I like this little subgroup. We need a section called the queer bums 🌈 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️lol. Jk last thing we need is another subsection I think at this point LOL 😂

Edited April 17 by Maddie

[Nungali]

 This thread became very confusing for me  ....  I have to pay more attention to whats going on . I thought I was reading a post from Silent Thunder  but it was from Blue eyed Snake ;

 

On 4/17/2024 at 3:06 AM, blue eyed snake said:

 

hmm...

 

it's also said in spiritual texts that we should try to find the balance between female and male.

That males should look for their feminity and vice versa.

 

i don't know about the energy body deciding anything, but energies do tend to behave different in male versus female bodies. And not every male body behaves like any other male body, neither does the chi. It's a continuum, where people like Maddie and me are on the outer sides.

 

It's the society that prevents us from acting like the gender that we feel is right, that fits with the way our chi runs through and around the body. I mean, the  body i currently live in looks like a fat old woman with big boobs, would I behave like a guy i would be laughingstock everywhere.

 

for years I've wanted to have a beard and my voice a bit lower, would make life a lot nicer.

 

Humans need to be part of a group, two spirit people have long been denied their place in society, I would like to see an end to that.

 

I was ....   

 

Silent Thunder is  like   'Bob'  from 'Fight Club ' ?  

 

 

Well, I got that sorted , so now I can return to the world of 'normality '  .