the need to know

[old3bob]

 

There  is so much information out there for various ways and practices that one could easily get overloaded with stuff that they don't have the need to know at the moment. Along that line if we have trouble remembering where we left our house or car keys but delve into volumes of "secret" or advanced stuff which also gets forgotten or does not yet apply to us and is way ahead of the game what good is it?  In fact what bad is it? 

[kakapo]

It would  be paralyzing to try and absorb and process all this information without a filter. 

 

Here is my filter:

 

Is there good hard objective evidence on camera with professionals present to try and debunk?

 

If yes, then learn all you can.

 

If no, then ignore until such evidence is presented.

 

Edited February 16 by kakapo

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

There  is so much information out there for various ways and practices that one could easily get overloaded with stuff that they don't have the need to know at the moment. 

This is a problem lots of people have. They spend too much time reading up on the mechanics of higher level practices and trying to understand that, but they can’t even breathe properly. Best not to read so much and just practice. 

[snowymountains]

Why not pick one practice.

 

Scrutinise teachers in that a lot before committing long term to them.

 

Typically good teachers have written books, are very experienced both in the practice and in teaching it. Then organising the material etc is "their problem" 😁, delegated in a sense.

 

When you see gaps in whatever you practice, then scrutinise how you'll fill the gap and again, save time by finding someone to teach that too.

 

It basically saves a lot of time.

 

I believe someone could learn everything on their own, they'd just need 30X the time investment, which means less time for practice and life.

[Gerard]

I don't teach but I could and HAVE WRITTEN ZERO BOOKS. I will never write one because good teachings are passed on orally and this this the way I have learnt. 
 

I have learnt Ba Gua from a teacher, a Water Ox, who hasn't written any books and I doubt he'll ever write any as he also learnt the master-apprentice style. He learnt Xingyi from his uncle (he hasn't written any books, Roy Jenzen from Perth) and Ba Gua from a Beijing-based teacher: Wang Tong. No books either. 

 

I also learnt from He Jinghan. All his FOUNDATION work videos available on YouTube are priceless. A big thank you from here. He has written one book but tbh I reckon he did it to pay the bills, for all the free vids he released online. Nothing in that book is different from all his audiovisual material. 
 

The teacher I was assigned to in the Vipassana retreat I attended in northern Thailand hasn't written any books and you'll never find any info about him online. He is a Dutch guy, a Fire Rooster, with a very deep insight. Won't say much here but he was spot-on with many things about this 'spiritual' business (full of inflated BS and excessive talk and written material ). More hardcore practice and less talk that's his belief. He actually wasn't impressed at all about the stuff I experienced on retreat: siddhi phenomena? He said nothing about it and wasn't slightly interested and impressed at all. Today this stuff doesn't impress me at all either. There are far more important things to care about. 
 

Hope this info helps. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

35 minutes ago, Gerard said:

I don't teach but I could and HAVE WRITTEN ZERO BOOKS. I will never write one because good teachings are passed on orally and this this the way I have learnt. 
 

I have learnt Ba Gua from a teacher, a Water Ox, who hasn't written any books and I doubt he'll ever write any as he also learnt the master-apprentice style. He learnt Xingyi from his uncle (he hasn't written any books, Roy Jenzen from Perth) and Ba Gua from a Beijing-based teacher: Wang Tong. No books either. 

 

I also learnt from He Jinghan. All his FOUNDATION work videos available on YouTube are priceless. A big thank you from here. He has written one book but tbh I reckon he did it to pay the bills, for all the free vids he released online. Nothing in that book is different from all his audiovisual material. 
 

The teacher I was assigned to in the Vipassana retreat I attended in northern Thailand hasn't written any books and you'll never find any info about him online. He is a Dutch guy, a Fire Rooster, with a very deep insight. Won't say much here but he was spot-on with many things about this 'spiritual' business (full of inflated BS and excessive talk and written material ). More hardcore practice and less talk that's his belief. He actually wasn't impressed at all about the stuff I experienced on retreat: siddhi phenomena? He said nothing about it and wasn't slightly interested and impressed at all. Today this stuff doesn't impress me at all either. There are far more important things to care about. 
 

Hope this info helps. 

Good advice as usual from you. A lot of people seem to think books are the only way to learn, and forget about or completely disregard oral tradition. Some of the best knowledge is not recorded, but only transferred orally or in person. But sadly most people prefer a free pdf.

[Elysium]

Some days I can't help myself but read on this forum for hours, haven't felt this kind of childlike wonder since my teenage years. 

 

I can see how it can turn into a nasty block on the road, though. Jumping from one read to another, it could make me very detached, and also jumpy for a lack of better word, so I promised myself to just stick with one practice only. Otherwise I won't even qualify as a jack of all trades, I think.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

9 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Some days I can't help myself but read on this forum for hours, haven't felt this kind of childlike wonder since my teenage years. 

 

I can see how it can turn into a nasty block on the road, though. Jumping from one read to another, it could make me very detached, and also jumpy for a lack of better word, so I promised myself to just stick with one practice only. Otherwise I won't even qualify as a jack of all trades, I think.

Yes, find a practice and stick with it for a while. If you don’t like it after a few months, you can always try something else. Is there any that has got your interest?

[Elysium]

5 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Yes, find a practice and stick with it for a while. If you don’t like it after a few months, you can always try something else. Is there any that has got your interest?

Now I am feeling like I hijacked the thread, just waiting that PPD approval so I can talk about these all day every day, lol.

 

I am only doing the first standing that is shown in "The Way of Energy" and I will keep doing that for a while. That and simply meditation for building concentration.

[old3bob]

There are bombardments from all sides, yet somehow the sincere are sincerely answered...

[silent thunder]

18 hours ago, Elysium said:

Some days I can't help myself but read on this forum for hours, haven't felt this kind of childlike wonder since my teenage years. 

 

I can see how it can turn into a nasty block on the road, though. Jumping from one read to another, it could make me very detached, and also jumpy for a lack of better word, so I promised myself to just stick with one practice only. Otherwise I won't even qualify as a jack of all trades, I think.

It's a strong observation to realize the block with words and thinking in verbage.

 

It has become crucial to incorporate in my process a deep foundation in silence and in being/presence without verbage.

 

It's soo easy for this to all become about thinking word thoughts and reading, analyzing and discussing.

 

Not villifying words here, but sharing how much benefit and depth i experience in the raw presence and being of silence and quiet in the mind.  After motion, stillness.  After talk, silence.  Tao's action is as a bellows.

 

My tradition is heavily based on quieting and stilling the body-mind... and the eventual development of this spaciousness is key in allowing contact to arise with the inner teacher.

[old3bob]

 

 

[Mark Foote]

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

It's a strong observation to realize the block with words and thinking in verbage.

 

It has become crucial to incorporate in my process a deep foundation in silence and in being/presence without verbage.

 

It's soo easy for this to all become about thinking word thoughts and reading, analyzing and discussing.

 

Not villifying words here, but sharing how much benefit and depth i experience in the raw presence and being of silence and quiet in the mind.  After motion, stillness.  After talk, silence.  Tao's action is as a bellows.

 

My tradition is heavily based on quieting and stilling the body-mind... and the eventual development of this spaciousness is key in allowing contact to arise with the inner teacher.
 

Gautama described his way of living as four arisings of mindfulness, sixteen thoughts initial and sustained, inhaling and exhaling.

There were four connected with the mind, and I like I. B. Horner's translation for them:

One trains oneself , thinking: ‘I will breathe in… breathe out experiencing thought… rejoicing in thought… concentrating thought… freeing thought.’

 

(MN III 82-83, Pali Text Society III p 124)

 

F. L. Woodward translates that last part as: 

 

Detaching my mind I shall breathe in. Detaching my mind I shall breathe out.
 

(SN V 312, Pali Text Society Vol V p 275-276)

 

In my experience, it's not possible to "free thought", or to "detach the mind", without first accepting and even "rejoicing" in thought.
 

 

[idiot_stimpy]

Everything has already been accomplished.

Nothing needs to be understood.

Nothing is needed to be here right now.

It can't be improved, if you tamper with it you will ruin it.

True mastery is gained by letting things go their own way, it cannot be gained by interfering.

[Cobie]

.

Edited February 22 by Cobie

[manitou]

Today I happened to be reading A.J. Girling's translation of the DDJ.  This is the very thing it talks about in Chapter 48:

 

 

DIMINISHING AUGMENTS

 

Attending to knowledge

one seeks to increase

 

Attending to Tao

natural diminishing.

 

Diminishing

Diminishing

Wu wei's richness augments.

 

In action with no actor (wu wei)

nothing remains undone

 

To fully appreciate life,

adhere to selfless action

 

With attachment to personal goals

it is not possible

to get the best out of life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by manitou

[Keith108]

31 minutes ago, manitou said:

Today I happened to be reading A.J. Girling's translation of the DDJ.  This is the very thing it talks about in Chapter 48:

 

 

DIMINISHING AUGMENTS

 

Attending to knowledge

one seeks to increase

 

Attending to Tao

natural diminishing.

 

Diminishing

Diminishing

Wu wei's richness augments.

 

In action with no actor (wu wei)

nothing remains undone

 

To fully appreciate life,

adhere to selfless action

 

With attachment to personal goals

it is not possible

to get the best out of life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love reading different translations of source materials. This one is quite wonderful. 🙏

[Keith108]

3 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Everything has already been accomplished.

Nothing needs to be understood.

Nothing is needed to be here right now.

It can't be improved, if you tamper with it you will ruin it.

True mastery is gained by letting things go their own way, it cannot be gained by interfering.

I think this one is Stephen Mitchell’s translation. Just read it this morning. 🙏

[Gerard]

On 16/2/2024 at 7:27 AM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

A lot of people seem to think books are the only way to learn, and forget about or completely disregard oral tradition.

 

You'll learn nothing useful from books as in gaining insight of what we really are, the subtle processes that take within all of us, and what is the real meaning of full realisation.

 

Btw, the Vipassana teacher was only concerned about one single thing:

 

How much are you thinking during your meditation practice?

 

Twice a day for the entire 3-week retreat.

 

He asked me nothing else.

 

At the end of the retreat he said: you are only a baby meditator but you'll go far on this path.

 

If took me roughly 10 to 14 years to find out what he said was 100% correct. I also knew the solely inner work path is not adequate for modern practitioners due to the sheer amount of blockages and state of imbalance we are all in when we first start this path. One must manipulate the body completely and bring the Yin & Yang to complete balance in order to fully understand and grasp the Mind.

 

 

 

[Mark Foote]

18 hours ago, manitou said:

Today I happened to be reading A.J. Girling's translation of the DDJ.  This is the very thing it talks about in Chapter 48:

 

DIMINISHING AUGMENTS

 

Attending to knowledge

one seeks to increase

 

Attending to Tao

natural diminishing.

 

Diminishing

Diminishing

Wu wei's richness augments.

 

In action with no actor (wu wei)

nothing remains undone

 

To fully appreciate life,

adhere to selfless action

 

With attachment to personal goals

it is not possible

to get the best out of life.

 

 

 

 

Shunryu Suzuki said:

 

To enjoy our life– complicated life, difficult life– without ignoring it, and without being caught by it. Without suffer from it. That is actually what will happen to us after you practice zazen ("just sitting").

 

(“To Actually Practice Selflessness”, August Sesshin Lecture Wednesday, August 6, 1969, San Francisco; parenthetical on zazen added)

 

 

I practice now to experience the free placement of attention as the sole source of activity in the body in the movement of breath, and in my “complicated, difficult” daily life, I look for the mindfulness that allows me to touch on that freedom.

("To Enjoy Our Life")

 

 

That's wu wei in daily life, to me:  the breath without a breather, as the necessity takes place.