Sadhguru on being stoned and alert at the same time without intoxicants

[Ajay0]

An article by Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev on being stoned and alert at the same time, without using any chemicals or drugs or other intoxicants.
 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/toi-edit-page/you-can-be-stoned-and-alert-at-the-same-time/

 

 

Quote

 

Statistics from credible sources indicate a sharp upswing in the volume of substance abuse in the world today. We may soon reach a point when entire populations turn chemically dependent – unless there is a massive upsurge in human consciousness.

As a yogi, i am not against pleasure. I am only against limited pleasures. The human need for intoxication is understandable. Several years ago, an Israeli scientist discovered that there are cannabis receptors in the human brain. This means that every individual is biologically equipped for intoxication! Since there was never any time when humanity was collectively consuming cannabis, this means that we are capable of producing our own narcotic and consuming it too. Hence the yogic description of the innermost human core as the ‘anandamayakosha’, the bliss body. Once you access this dimension, you are effortlessly stoned, with no side-effects whatsoever!

 

If your alertness and intelligence are not compromised, inebriation is a great way to be. Another word for this condition is simply meditation. Instead of getting drunk, if people meditated, they could be stoned and alert at the same time. They would also turn phenomenally productive because nothing would feel burdensome any more.The reason people want to get drunk every weekend is that they want to shed the burdens of the week. If they tried just a little meditation, they could stay drunk all week long! - Sadhguru

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Ajay0

[Nungali]

Weird .

 

That seems to make no distinction between  types of drugs and shows a very limited understanding of what is going on .

 

I have friends that ask me aboyut this guy ; " Do you read Sadhguru ? " 

 

" No ! " 

 

- and it is not that he is wise or worldy ..... its a fashion , of some type .

 

he seems to know nothing about addication and the various reasons people  get addicted to one type of substance and not another .

[Cobie]

.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Cobie

[Neirong]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

shows a very limited understanding of what is going on .

Sadhguru is a public attention seeking celeb, he will talk whatever makes him more popular and rich.

Easy answers and easy solutions are well accepted in masses.

[searcher7977]

I've studied his practices and attended multiple of his foundation's classes and satsangs for about a year, and have been doing his ancillary practices for several subsequent years. I believe his methods work very well, and they match what other reputable Guru's have said, such as Paramahansa Yogananda and Swami Sivananda.

 

He is also doing very good public service and community work. So, speaking from both personal experience and from objective measures of how much literal food he has given to people in need, I'd say he is a reputable source with a good head on his shoulders and a good heart.

 

In the specific context of drugs,  I've never been addicted to them so I wouldn't know how effective his measures are. But I see similarities between what he says about an intrinsic sense of happiness and the famous rat park study. So, I would have to disagree with all the above posts.

Edited July 3, 2023 by searcher7977

[Nungali]

Whaaat ?

 

Being  stoned without intoxicants  ???

 

Stoned is a word that means being intoxicated .  Maybe his English is poor then  ?

 

and I doubt   " anandamayakosha " means 'being stoned '  .

 

 

[searcher7977]

I think there are plenty other teachers and old Buddhist and Hindu texts that describe bliss, pleasant sensations, and various meditative states as intoxicating.

 

Stoned maybe a stretch lol, but Sadhguru does seem to imply he is able to make his own cannabinoids. So, in that respect, yes he frequently talks about altering one's own body chemistry through various sadhana and of course diet.

 

And no, his English is fairly good. You bring up valid arguments. To that, I would say this one article does not sum up the entirety of his teachings about the anandamayakosha. I would classify it as another one of his lectures on altering body chemistry. 

 

In this article, he says "I am only against limited pleasures. The human need for intoxication is understandable." 

He has said similar things before. Something like "The problem with humans is not that they are greedy, its that they are not greedy enough." 

 

Both quotes lead into a lecture about how the only way to satisfy such immense desires is to seek (and touch) the infinite, the source of creation, the divine, etc. He describes a form of being stoned tied directly to the peace and stillness arising from meditation. He has many lectures of this sort. 

 

Again, perhaps a literal interpretation in a Western context might turn people away from him. But I would argue that he defines what he means as stoned in the rest of the article: "a phenomenally productive state" where "nothing feels burdensome anymore." "Stillness, exuberance, and intoxication...[experiencing] the full depth and dimensions of what it means to be human...the nameless ecstasies of the source of creation itself." 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by searcher7977

[Ajay0]

54 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Whaaat ?

 

Being  stoned without intoxicants  ??? 

Stoned is a word that means being intoxicated .

 

 

The term 'Stoned' is American slang which means being drunk or under influence of drugs, for pleasure ( of a temporary nature.)

 

Sadhguru is implying that one can be 'stoned' or intoxicated without external intoxicants as well, while being alert and productive at the same time. 

 

Quote

 

Maybe his English is poor then  ?

 

 

 

 Sadhguru's mother tongue is Telugu and speaks Tamil, Kannada, Hindi and other Indian languages. He is proficient in english language as well. 
 

 

Quote

and I doubt   " anandamayakosha " means 'being stoned '  .

 

Ananda means bliss in sanskrit while kosha means sheath, and Anandamaya kosha is the sheath of bliss. It is said to be the most subtle of the five layers of the body as it is the innermost layer, as per Vedantic philosophy.

 

https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5886/anandamaya-kosha

 

Quote

 

Hence the yogic description of the innermost human core as the ‘anandamayakosha’, the bliss body. Once you access this dimension, you are effortlessly stoned, with no side-effects whatsoever! ~ Sadhguru

 

 

Here Sadhguru is stating that accessing the Anandamaya Kosha will enable natural bliss without dependencies on external intoxicants.

 

All dependencies suggest weakness and consequent attachment or addiction. Since attachment or addiction imply strong desire or craving within,  it would go alongside with psychological suffering (tanha) as well .

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ajay0

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Can someone teach me a meditation that gives the same effect as crack?

 

asking for a friend 

[searcher7977]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Can someone teach me a meditation that gives the same effect as crack?

 

asking for a friend 

 

Of all the esoteric experiences you have read and apparently experienced through FPCK, I would imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to believe it possible to be intoxicated (in a sense) through meditation.

 

If FPCK does channel compassionate energy, and is in any way connected to Guan Yin, its not shown in your post mocking and disrespecting another spiritual teacher, Sadhguru. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by searcher7977

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

40 minutes ago, searcher7977 said:

 

Of all the esoteric experiences you have read and apparently experienced through FPCK, I would imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to believe it possible to be intoxicated (in a sense) through meditation.

 

If FPCK does channel compassionate energy, and is in any way connected to Guan Yin, its not shown in your post mocking and disrespecting another spiritual teacher, Sadhguru. 

 

 

 

 

Relax it’s a joke

[dwai]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Can someone teach me a meditation that gives the same effect as crack?

 

asking for a friend 

Moderator's Note:

 

This comment seems to be aimed at ridiculing the OP.  A better option would be to respond with more thoughtful commentary on why you think the OP's perspective is wrong. 

[dwai]

Now posting as a member (not moderator) - Sadhguru often makes extreme statements to draw people's attention. In what I have heard him say over the years, his point, in this case, is to indicate that meditation and yogic methods will produce more powerful results than any externally consumed substance can. I can corroborate that with my experiences within the yogic and Daoist meditation/cultivation paradigms. 

 

The point about the Anandamaya kosha - according to the Hindu/Yogic tradition, all pleasurable experiences stem from the Anandamaya kosha. These pleasurable experiences bind us in limited form, causing the cycle of chasing after these experiences and avoiding unpleasant ones. So directly accessing the anandamaya kosha is a better and healthier option than what substances can provide. However, even that has limitations - when the mind is not stabilized, and its origin is unrecognized/unrealized. So even better than yogic manipulations is to realize our true nature directly.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Moderator's Note:

 

This comment seems to be aimed at ridiculing the OP.  A better option would be to respond with more thoughtful commentary on why you think the OP's perspective is wrong. 

Ok for a serious answer

Quote

As a yogi, i am not against pleasure. I am only against limited pleasures. The human need for intoxication is understandable. Several years ago, an Israeli scientist discovered that there are cannabis receptors in the human brain. This means that every individual is biologically equipped for intoxication! Since there was never any time when humanity was collectively consuming cannabis, this means that we are capable of producing our own narcotic and consuming it too. Hence the yogic description of the innermost human core as the ‘anandamayakosha’, the bliss body. Once you access this dimension, you are effortlessly stoned, with no side-effects whatsoever!

 

If your alertness and intelligence are not compromised, inebriation is a great way to be. Another word for this condition is simply meditation. Instead of getting drunk, if people meditated, they could be stoned and alert at the same time. They would also turn phenomenally productive because nothing would feel burdensome any more.The reason people want to get drunk every weekend is that they want to shed the burdens of the week. If they tried just a little meditation, they could stay drunk all week long! - Sadhguru

 

This whole thing is very simplistic. Being drunk and being stoned are both very different things, you have a different state of mind for both and your body is affected in different ways. Even with cannabis you have a different effect if you are using a sativa plant or a indica plant, one is more of a head high and more THC, the other is more of a body high with more CBD. 
 

Now if we look at cocaine, crack, heroin, opium, meth etc you have even more different effects on the body and mind. It’s too simplistic to say “meditate instead of taking drugs”. You can and will reach other states of mind by meditating, I’m not denying that. I just think it’s a silly comparison because what you can feel during meditation will ultimately be different than what you feel taking different types of drugs.

 

Quote

They would also turn phenomenally productive because nothing would feel burdensome any more.

 

 

This is also quite an incredible claim, would need to see definite proof of this for such a statement.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Pak_Satrio

[steve]

I think he Sadhguru was trying to suggest that through meditation we can feel relieved of our burdensome mental discomfort, you could say blissful, while remaining clear and alert. Using the term stoned was a poor choice, IMO, but I think I get his point.

[dwai]

@Pak_Satrio I feel that some concession can be given to someone who’s trying to convince people to give up bad habits and form good ones.
 

Also, I think some cultural differences creep into our vocabulary as well. Maybe his choice of words was a result of that? 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Can someone teach me a meditation that gives the same effect as crack?

 

asking for a friend 

 

ask sad guru .

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, searcher7977 said:

 

Of all the esoteric experiences you have read and apparently experienced through FPCK, I would imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to believe it possible to be intoxicated (in a sense) through meditation.

 

If FPCK does channel compassionate energy, and is in any way connected to Guan Yin, its not shown in your post mocking and disrespecting another spiritual teacher, Sadhguru. 

 

 

 

 

 

So,  no one who claims to be a spiritual teacher  nowadays .. even if they have a large internet and social media following  ( I hope you can detect my sarcasm on that point ) , is not to be  mocked when they say silly stuff, or worse, change teachings from 'bliss' to  'stoned'  to attract  westerners , or  tout  obviously fake principles that clearly go against  science and proof because they sound 'spiritually cool ' ( or maybe people just be ignorant )  .... like the silly comments  that where attributed to him about full moon and kundalini internal tides , or some rubbish like that .

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Ok for a serious answer

 

This whole thing is very simplistic. Being drunk and being stoned are both very different things, you have a different state of mind for both and your body is affected in different ways. Even with cannabis you have a different effect if you are using a sativa plant or a indica plant, one is more of a head high and more THC, the other is more of a body high with more CBD. 
 

Now if we look at cocaine, crack, heroin, opium, meth etc you have even more different effects on the body and mind. It’s too simplistic to say “meditate instead of taking drugs”. You can and will reach other states of mind by meditating, I’m not denying that. I just think it’s a silly comparison because what you can feel during meditation will ultimately be different than what you feel taking different types of drugs.

 

 

 

This is also quite an incredible claim, would need to see definite proof of this for such a statement.

 

Exactly !

 

and being  a keen exo-psychologist I am well aware of the different types of drugs and their classifications , the different  stages of   development that are associated with them , the inter-relationship of those two things  and the specific therapies involved .

 

For example, even alcohol has a dual effect, circuit and development  area ; initial consummation of a small amount of alcohol triggers circuit 4 - the socio sexual circuit ,  many realize the pleasant social effects of a few drinks, casually or at a party or over dinner , and yes, one can feel  a bit horny after  a  2 or 3 drinks .  Drink more or 'to excess' it triggers the 'anal territorial circuit '  and the pleasant social gathering  ( for some types ) can devolve to ; "  Where you looking at my woman ?"   ....    and sometimes physical violence .

 

another example is, I know a woman that works in the nearby city and a woman's refuge , she says most seeking refuge that have been abused by men, they have an alcohol problem  , we dont get women coming in seeking refuge from men that  have a marijuana problem .

 

To mix all these dynamics and separate therapies up and put them under the heading of 'being stoned' to seek pleasure ,  and then equating that with a spiritual bliss claim, seems the equivalent of the old hare krishna recruiting technique :  if you chant hare krishna every day , or better , become one ,   its better than any drug you can take !

 

 

 

Wow Man ! where do I sign up ?

[Nungali]

42 minutes ago, steve said:

I think he Sadhguru was trying to suggest that through meditation we can feel relieved of our burdensome mental discomfort, you could say blissful, while remaining clear and alert. Using the term stoned was a poor choice, IMO, but I think I get his point.

 

I get his point all right !      I dont even  bother    to take MDMA any more .    I realized if I develop my Eudamonia more, not only do I feel better , but actually, last time I took MDMA ,  I realised  that for a bout 4 days after I was not  in my normal  blissful state  ( and I do not equate that , nor MDMA with being 'stoned' ) .

 

We can say it was a 'poor choice' , but if the guy is smart , I think rather , it was a 'calculated wrong choice' to garner interest from decadent westerner  drug gluttons 

 

( that last one was a dig , please dont post the stats of   illegal drug consumption  in India , I have already seen them . )

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I get his point all right !      I dont even  bother    to take MDMA any more .    I realized if I develop my Eudamonia more, not only do I feel better , but actually, last time I took MDMA ,  I realised  that for a bout 4 days after I was not  in my normal  blissful state  ( and I do not equate that , nor MDMA with being 'stoned' ) .

Yup I would have advertised it as MDMA without a horrific comedown if I was him.

 

Quote

We can say it was a 'poor choice' , but if the guy is smart , I think rather , it was a 'calculated wrong choice' to garner interest from decadent westerner  drug gluttons  

Hehe

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

48 minutes ago, dwai said:

@Pak_Satrio I feel that some concession can be given to someone who’s trying to convince people to give up bad habits and form good ones.

I don’t think it’s a good idea, it is both misleading and false advertising, but worst of all taking advantage of using people’s addictions and escapism to get hooked on his practices. Meditation should be used to help people get rid of their addictions, not become one.

[searcher7977]

51 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

So,  no one who claims to be a spiritual teacher  nowadays .. even if they have a large internet and social media following  ( I hope you can detect my sarcasm on that point ) , is not to be  mocked when they say silly stuff, or worse, change teachings from 'bliss' to  'stoned'  to attract  westerners , or  tout  obviously fake principles that clearly go against  science and proof because they sound 'spiritually cool ' ( or maybe people just be ignorant )  .... like the silly comments  that where attributed to him about full moon and kundalini internal tides , or some rubbish like that .

 

Personally I would say no, no mocking. But that is from my buddhist background, since it tells us to refrain from harsh speech. In yoga, mocking is not encouraged as part of ahimsa depending on the school, but can fall under other yamas and niyamas as well. I do not know about Taoist perspectives. I have posted asking about it on this forum but it went unanswered some time ago.

 

Its one thing to call it out as rubbish or to say its wrong. Its another to mock or be sarcastic. But, perhaps you see it differently. I don't think I have quite as much experience as you, at most I am a serious beginner. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by searcher7977

[Neirong]

7 hours ago, searcher7977 said:

since it tells us to refrain from harsh speech. In yoga, mocking is not encouraged as part of ahimsa depending on the school, but can fall under other yamas and niyamas as well. I do not know about Taoist perspectives. I have posted asking about it on this forum but it went unanswered some time ago.

 

Its one thing to call it out as rubbish or to say its wrong. Its another to mock or be sarcastic. But, perhaps you see it differently. I don't think I have quite as much experience as you, at most I am a serious beginner. 

 

I had personally seen Sadguru mock, insult, and berate a young woman in public when she asked him a question he could not easily answer. Instead of admitting, "I don't know, I cannot answer". The video can be found online if you search well. He used crowd control techniques there to ridicule and laugh at her publicly. He is not a man of any high morals or ethical principles.

 

I will go further to say he has nothing to do with the teachings he sells; he simply hired someone to write him a yoga teaching program and hired instructors to teach it. It may actually be alright if it does not have much of Sadguru's own ideas about yoga, which are new age/questionable at best.

 

12 hours ago, dwai said:

to indicate that meditation and yogic methods will produce more powerful results than any externally consumed substance can.

 

This statement is right, which also means that for any internal practitioner and cultivator, things like smoking, drinking, weed, or any other substance are useless. Weak Minds ingest substances to alter their state of mind and compensate for one or another problem they have in life formed through their internal flaws and imperfection.

 

While our methods, for example, can lead to a massive "getting high" experiences, I would be wary of using it as the main selling point to the masses to avoid drug addicts and junkies joining our classes for the sake of getting high itself, rather than spiritual development and improvement of a character. Getting high is merely a byproduct of filling and harmonizing self with energy through cultivation; it is never a goal or addiction.

 

If you had a dry river internally for all your life that suddenly has a massive inflow of water, and plants sprout on it, you will feel it positively. If you get a beginner energy body going and internal pressure bouncing you off the ground when you walk, with a dense resin energy between your hands, it will impact your well-being and mood.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Neirong

[Ajay0]

12 hours ago, dwai said:

The point about the Anandamaya kosha - according to the Hindu/Yogic tradition, all pleasurable experiences stem from the Anandamaya kosha. These pleasurable experiences bind us in limited form, causing the cycle of chasing after these experiences and avoiding unpleasant ones. So directly accessing the anandamaya kosha is a better and healthier option than what substances can provide. However, even that has limitations - when the mind is not stabilized, and its origin is unrecognized/unrealized. So even better than yogic manipulations is to realize our true nature directly.

 

  Yes, this is true, the bliss of higher states of consciousness and especially enlightenment is superior to all known pleasures. This is stated in the ancient texts and enlightened masters have also stated the same to me.

 

 In fact one of them humorously and gently reprimanded me when I asked him politely on his well-being during a visit, saying that he was blissful always effortlessly, and there is no need for me to ask the same.

 

Even being in the presence of an enlightened being also raises one's own prana/chi levels, and I had felt deep peace and joy within as well as blocks dissolving in the inner body. Meditation was effortless and easy in the presence of enlightened masters.

Whether you are being drunk with alcohol or stoned with drugs , you are just experiencing euphoria for a temporary period of time followed by miserable hangovers.

 

 Also the strong desire or craving one develops for such external intoxicants creates addictions and prevent one from moving to higher states of consciousness and enlightenment.

 

 Thus it would be equivalent to a thirsty person finding and being content with sewer water when a freshwater lake is available nearby.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Ajay0