Mantra and chi

[Chang dao ling]

What are the effect of Mantra according to taoism ( Qigong,neigong,neidan) according to Indian yoga a Mantra can Awaken a chakra and also Awaken kundalini energy. What Mantra can do according to taoism.

[ChiDragon]

14 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

What Mantra can do according to taoism.

 

I don't think Taoists ever practiced Mantra but tu na(吐納)，abdominal breathing.

[Taomeow]

9 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

I don't think Taoists ever practiced Mantra but tu na(吐納)，abdominal breathing.

 

I beg to differ.  Years ago I was given a rather lengthy taoist mantra by one of my Chinese teachers-on-the-side, from the Emei tradition. 

 

10 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

What are the effect of Mantra according to taoism ( Qigong,neigong,neidan) according to Indian yoga a Mantra can Awaken a chakra and also Awaken kundalini energy. What Mantra can do according to taoism.

 

It probably depends on the school, and on a particular mantra's specific purpose.  In my case, it was meant to correct a deficient wuxing phase in the bazi, and accordingly to be recited for 72 days of the corresponding season.     

[Chang dao ling]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I beg to differ.  Years ago I was given a rather lengthy taoist mantra by one of my Chinese teachers-on-the-side, from the Emei tradition. 

 

 

It probably depends on the school, and on a particular mantra's specific purpose.  In my case, it was meant to correct a deficient wuxing phase in the bazi, and accordingly to be recited for 72 days of the corresponding season.     

What is bazi?

[Barnaby]

2 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

What is bazi?

Bazi = Four Pillars

 

Chinese astrological system

 

Google it

[Barnaby]

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

In my case, it was meant to correct a deficient wuxing phase in the bazi,

Very interesting, I never heard of that before 

[awaken]

Those phenomena will occur automatically during the process of spontaneous practice.
I used to naturally make ah sounds and vibrate the center of my body at the same time.
Sound and body vibrations are produced simultaneously.
In addition to the sound of the vowel, the sound of the consonant is also produced.

 

自發功練的過程中會自動產生那些現象。
我曾經自然發出啊的聲音並同時震動身體中央。
聲音和身體的震動同時產生。
除了發出母音的聲音，也會發出子音的聲音。

[Sahaja]

I would describe the yoga mantra origin slightly differently in the Tantric context - Tantric yoga would give a cosmological interpretation to sound as being at the source  of the creation cycle with 4 levels of sound with the most gross part the verbal utterance and the most subtle being the seed of creation taking place before the thought of sound. The most well known of these sounds is the pranava which is generally known as Aum (but there are also a couple of pranavas in the tantric yoga tradition ). The energy of the mantras is associated with Shakti the creation principle and different mantras known as bija mantras are associated with different aspects of Shakti known as devatas (e.g. saraswati, etc.). These sounds are thought to also exist in the human body as represented on the petals of the chakras which correspond to different parts of the human body. In tantric yoga they have a practice of using these sounds in the body as part of their process of internal alchemy along with other mantras for related self cultivation practices such as  khechari. Mantras are also used as pranams (obeisance prayers to start/end a practice) in tantric yoga.

 

The use of sound in China for self cultivation from the best I can tell is a mixture of indigenous practices with Sanskrit bija mantras and dharanis brought by Buddhism. The Buddhist mantras were in turn influenced by Vedic mantras and perhaps by tantric yoga mantras. Since Daoism and Buddhism influenced each other greatly in China unwinding this mix is difficult. While some seem to originate in Sanskrit (nianfa practice of Amitfuo) others may have roots earlier than the arrival of Buddhism such as the six healing sounds associated with the 5 phase model.  Not sure whether the tai chi breathing practice of using Heng Haah was indigenous or influenced by the Sanskrit practice (Hamsa/Soham). I believe there is a version of Hamsa used in self cultivation in some Chinese traditions. Perhaps someone else that knows more about this topic can comment. 
 

I imagine both the Vedic mantras that later morphed into the tantric yoga and Buddhist mantras  and the indigenous Chinese sounds both started as ritual incantation practices tied to earlier religious and or shamanistic practices seeking power or giving thanks. I am sure I have vastly oversimplified this topic and also left out some important traditions,  so my apologies.

[Taomeow]

Taoist-proper mantras aren't a borrowing from another system.  They originated from 巫教 wū jiào, Chinese proto-taoist shamanism.  According to some sources (e.g. I came across their description in The Book of Changes and Traditional Chinese Medicine by professor Yang Li), they used to be the main (and sometimes only) tool of healing, transformation and manipulation of elements.  

[Chang dao ling]

12 hours ago, Sahaja said:

I would describe the yoga mantra origin slightly differently in the Tantric context - Tantric yoga would give a cosmological interpretation to sound as being at the source  of the creation cycle with 4 levels of sound with the most gross part the verbal utterance and the most subtle being the seed of creation taking place before the thought of sound. The most well known of these sounds is the pranava which is generally known as Aum (but there are also a couple of pranavas in the tantric yoga tradition ). The energy of the mantras is associated with Shakti the creation principle and different mantras known as bija mantras are associated with different aspects of Shakti known as devatas (e.g. saraswati, etc.). These sounds are thought to also exist in the human body as represented on the petals of the chakras which correspond to different parts of the human body. In tantric yoga they have a practice of using these sounds in the body as part of their process of internal alchemy along with other mantras for related self cultivation practices such as  khechari. Mantras are also used as pranams (obeisance prayers to start/end a practice) in tantric yoga.

 

The use of sound in China for self cultivation from the best I can tell is a mixture of indigenous practices with Sanskrit bija mantras and dharanis brought by Buddhism. The Buddhist mantras were in turn influenced by Vedic mantras and perhaps by tantric yoga mantras. Since Daoism and Buddhism influenced each other greatly in China unwinding this mix is difficult. While some seem to originate in Sanskrit (nianfa practice of Amitfuo) others may have roots earlier than the arrival of Buddhism such as the six healing sounds associated with the 5 phase model.  Not sure whether the tai chi breathing practice of using Heng Haah was indigenous or influenced by the Sanskrit practice (Hamsa/Soham). I believe there is a version of Hamsa used in self cultivation in some Chinese traditions. Perhaps someone else that knows more about this topic can comment. 
 

I imagine both the Vedic mantras that later morphed into the tantric yoga and Buddhist mantras  and the indigenous Chinese sounds both started as ritual incantation practices tied to earlier religious and or shamanistic practices seeking power or giving thanks. I am sure I have vastly oversimplified this topic and also left out some important traditions,  so my apologies.

Sakthi and chi are same?

[Chang dao ling]

11 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Taoist-proper mantras aren't a borrowing from another system.  They originated from 巫教 wū jiào, Chinese proto-taoist shamanism.  According to some sources (e.g. I came across their description in The Book of Changes and Traditional Chinese Medicine by professor Yang Li), they used to be the main (and sometimes only) tool of healing, transformation and manipulation of elements.  

I agree with you. Check this book Zhong Yuan Qigong. In this book author learners Teleportation Mantra from his teacher.

[Sahaja]

13 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

Sakthi and chi are same?

 i don’t think so but I can see how the comparison could be made. 

 

 

 

 

[awaken]

As long as you practice spontaneous Gong, mantras will naturally appear. And it will vibrate with the Qi channels of the body.

 

This should be the initial form of the mantra, that is, when the qi channel develops to a certain extent, it will naturally start to open the throat chakra and make the sound of vibrating the chakra.

If the Qi channels are not developed naturally, there will be no effect.

What comes naturally is best.

 

只要練自發功，自然就會出現咒語。並且會和身體的氣脈互相震動。

這應該是咒語最初的型態，也就是氣脈發展到一個程度，自然就會開始開啟喉輪，發出震動脈輪的聲音。

如果不是氣脈自然發展出來的，就沒有該有的效果。

自然產生的才是最好的。

[Sahaja]

While I believe there are things in yoga and martial arts (such as bagua) that have their source in spontaneous gong, from my experience there is also a lot of random noise in there as well particularly with verbal utterance.  From a tantric yoga perspective the power of mantras is very deep and a fundamental part of the universe creation/maintenance/destruction cycle. The verbal utterance is only the 4th most gross level of the mantra’s manifestation. I would advise some caution in automatically equating spontaneous verbal utterances with something so deep and profound. 

[Shadow_self]

On 04/02/2023 at 4:04 PM, Chang dao ling said:

What are the effect of Mantra according to taoism ( Qigong,neigong,neidan) according to Indian yoga a Mantra can Awaken a chakra and also Awaken kundalini energy. What Mantra can do according to taoism.

 

Aum/Om harmonizes Yin and Yang and allows one to move closer to spirit  

 

Very profound stuff  Can help with all manner of mental issues too

 

Certainly something seriously overlooked/underutilized by a lot of people

[dwai]

I've learned "seed" sounds as part of Daoist mediation. These are mantras at their very core.