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Hello,

 

I would like to introduce myself properly by giving my related background in regards to internal alchemy, which is what i am about...

 

I started out with the religion of my parents until early teenage years, became agnostic as it didnt matter to me and later on picked up interest in Christendom. Not having any preconceived notions about anything Christian by external teachings... and reading the book on my own, I came to other conclusions than those that are mainstream. My understanding or interpretation has evolved multiple times, after which I took a step back and realized that relying on interpretation, understanding, knowledge or reasoning is not enough and can be misleading. That was the main point that made me stop trying to reach God with the intellect, but start walking the path of the mystic (experiencing God > knowing God).

 

One day, I had a very interesting experience, which changed everything. I sat on my bed or I was lying, I dont know and had a moment where I totally surrendered to "God", giving up my life, basically, saying its all yours and meaning it and fully giving up... As I was lying there, my body started to burn hot. Internal waves of goosebumps emerged that came in waves, stronger and stronger, and overtook my entire body. If I was to describe it, I would say my body was in blazing, overwhelming, invisible fire, which did not burn me, but which I could sense!

At that moment, I had no clue what was happening, but nowadays, I think I know... anyway, as it was happening, I was thinking of God's embrace, of verses like "God is a burning fire" which does not burn, things of that nature, which intensified the whole experience... IIRC, it kept going for 2-3 minutes, give or take and then i went to sleep. I never paid more attention or taught to it, but nowadays, I think it was a key event in my energetic unfolding - i think it started it all.

 

Anyway, I evolved from Christianity by becoming a perennialist, due to my mystical/esoteric approach to the bible. I discovered non-duality, first in the bible, then noticed how other traditions, mainly buddhism (secretly) and advaita vedanta (openly) are teaching the same thing.

I realized that "God" is not personal, but rather impersonal and more than that, that God's identity, which I knew was "ineffable" - somethign that did not make much sense to me, was beyond concepts, language or reason, making me understand the ineffible-ness of God's identity.

It transcends the intellect or speech, the Tao that can be talked or written about, is not the real Tao...

The buddhists call it the void or emptiness..

 

The evolution of my understanding has been happening in multiple strands, in parallel. The main strand or framework I was working with, was alchemical Christianity (occultism), but I was open minded so I was pursuing other maps or frameworks like budhism and yoga (of patanjali) to better understand what they were all pointing at. As a perennialist, I view God as a mountain-top, with different starting points having different paths (potentially-) all leading to the same top, or trying to, at least.

 

From Christendom, I understood that the way to God is by "Christ" alone - which is an occultish way to say that celibacy is sine-quo-non.

This knowledge has been esoterically distilled from a few things...:

- the allegory of the fall of Adam & Eve, who "ate" from the forbidden "tree" placed in the "midst of the garden". ther is a verse that says one should come to a conclusion on a matter by taking multiple witnesses in court cases, but esoterically speaking, this is referring to textual interpretation - so, there is another place (Proverbs 30:20) which says "the whore eats and wipes her mouth and says she has done nothing wrong", showing and indicating that "eating" = sex, making the allegory of Adam & Eve all about sex, as they also "ate".. making the forbidden tree the genitelia, the garden the center of the human body etc.

- allegory of Christ's crcufixition - being crucified at the age of "33" in "golgotha" is code for the spine, which has 33 vertebrates and the human skull: "golgotha" literally means "place of skull"

- the word "Christ" means anointing or oil, in the original, its "cristos" - this is the same "oil" of the parable of the 10 virgins, all of whom seek to enter the "kindgom of God" (deciphered: samadhi/jhana), 5 wise having "oil" in their lantern, 5 foolish who dont have "oil" and cant enter during the dark night (meditation)

- the Christ (anointing, oil, essence, "jing"), which came from above ("Most High" / "God" - aka the brain, pituary/pineal) must also go up the same way it came down - by being accepted (celibacy) and not rejected (sexual indulgence)

- "to know" meaning to have sex and the saying "know thyself" occultishly referring to self-frucitication (internal alchemy)..

 

Equipped with this knowledge, I practiced mainly 2 things:

- meditation

- celibacy

(both of which are simply non-doings, now that I think about it - I did not "do" those things, I rather stopped "doing" in both instances xD the yoke of Christ is easy after all...)

 

The form of meditation I practiced was what Buddha described in the anapana-sati sutta. Awareness of the breath.

By "breath", I mean the false breath - the mechanism by which we suck in air.

These days, my main interpretation for "breath" in occult or spiritual ancient texts is Chi automatically, because you can breath chi as well.

 

Sooner or later, I discovered that I can voluntarily cause piloerection, in short - create goosebumps voluntarily with my breath. I now understand this as chi-control.

Initially I did not understand the significance of it and ignored it, but thanks to articles I found here and elsewhere, correlating it with the other knowledge I have, I think its the key to all of it..

The comment I am referring to is this one:

 

Having spent some time here and having read about xing and ming (a 60+ page pdf called "Destiny, Vital Force, or Existence? On the Meanings of Ming in Daoist Internal Alchemy and Its Relation to Xing or Human Nature by Fabrizio Pregadio"), I think I now have somewhat of a better understanding of what the process is really all about. (I am still not hipp to the taoist lingo, but i am trying xD)

And I find myself more leaning towards Taoism or rather, internal alchemy (neidan) than any other framework, as its the most straight forward and the one that makes most sense to me personally, assuming you know what the cryptic elements mean. All spiritual texts are cryptic, but if you have a little bit of progress or related knowledge to compare it to, you can usually make sense of it... or delude yourself you are undersanding them, lol xD

 

Here is my current understanding ,which is ever-evolving:

- Meditation (false xing exercise, post-heaven xing?) creates true ming (chi movement, awareness of chi, voluntary piloerection), when the body and mind are completely and 100% relaxed (no movement: physical stillness and 0 muscle tension + no thoughts)

- True Ming & its exercise (chi-gong, taichi, external movements but paying 80% attention to the movement of the chi internally, not the physical form or movement) is what charges the battery at the core of the human system and allows for true xing (jhanic absoprtion, samadhi, emptiness) to occur

 

The anapanasati sutta is ingenious in the way, that it contains both elements. You progress from the breath of air to the breath of chi all naturally. Once you do celibacy or become a monk and then completely relax the body and mind for a while, you feel start feeling the pulsations of chi in your body (mainly abdomen), which are exponentially intensified through celibacy.. and sooner or later, acquire control over them. You start feeling light-orgasmic sensations in your abdomen when you fully relax and meditate! This is the bliss of the secluded monks, Buddha talked about, who were entering Jhana!

When the breath is traced down, which naturally occurs, as you can not focus your attention to the nose-tip as mainstream buddhist teachers teach, because you have let go of all control (even awareness) to achieve stillness, bodily and mentally, awareness itself will natural latch on to the breath and follow it down to the belly. in the belly, when the breath is slow (long), heat sensations will start to form near the belly button and it will heat up. this natural xing-approach can be simulated by a ming approach of doing reverse breathing and intentionally moving chi (voluntary piloerection) to the belly region. visualizing energy moving in from your limbs like electricity down into your belly helps a lot.

2 different approaches, but the same effect.

i think once this center is charged sufficiently, it spills over to higher regions which is when supernatural phenomena are gonna start occurring around you, usually unintentionally and without control... perhaps you can gain control, but I am not that far yet and I am not really interested, tbh... i could not make sense of it either, it seems that certain physical phenomena occur, when there is a "delta" in awareness, say you are at 50% of stillness or emptiness (random number) and then you drop to 49% or jump to 51% abruptly for whatever reason, this has a ripple effect on physical reality. this is the best way I can describe it and I could not induce it by will, it happens on its own or is out of control... i could not attribute it to anything else, because its hard to "think" while not thinking or being completely still.. so when the phenomena occur, it rips me out of emptiness completely when i try to make sense of it, completely stopping the whole process! i think thinking (mental movements) are too coarse for supernatural phenomena - you have to have a super subtle mind with super subtle movements during stillness, to (probably) intentionally induce these things. and even then, how would you do that, when you have to let go of all things to reach such levels of stilness (non-doing)? how to do while not doing? i have no idea... its super complex and I have no one to really talk to about these things, except perhaps you guys!

 

I believe that dual-cultivation is necessary and complementary to each other, cultivating both energy (chi movement) + stillness (100% body/mind relaxation, no wavering at all, no movement of any sort).

 

Christ may have been a taoist, btw., having said what he said in the gospel of Thomas verse 50, in regards to where we come from:

> (50) Jesus says:
> (1) “If they say to you: ‘Where do you come from?’ (then) say to them: ‘We have come from the light, the place where the light has come into being > by itself, has established [itself] and has appeared in their image.’
> (2) If they say to you: ‘Is it you?’ (then) say: ‘We are his children, and we are the elect of the living Father.’
> (3) If they ask you: ‘What is the sign of your Father among you?’ (then) say to them: ‘It is movement and repose.’”

 

Movement (ming) and repose (stillness) or yang and yin, etc.. The Tao (stillness, void, emptiness, nothingness) spontaneously created unity (golden elixier, the unification of yin and yang) which split into duality (yin and yang), which procreated the 3rd (mother+father=child) and from this process came all the things (10.000 things)... so its about uniting duality, merging movement with stillness, action in non-action, doing in non-doing or non-doing in doing - i think this is what wuwei refers to, ultimately. effortless action is born, when both yin and yang merged into one. no one can do this, except the exalted ones, the taoist immortals, the boddhisattvas, the saints, etc. etc. intentionally.

in regards to internal alchemy, I think this refers to controlling energy while being in stillness. its kinda paradoxical, how is there a "doing" (yang, chi-control) in "non-doing" (meditation, yin). i think the answer is: spontaneity - its a natural phenomenon, its not you, who does anything, it is something which follows a certain law and happens on its own on the path of cultivation.

i think this is what has been depicted in the yin and yang symbol, where there is a dot of the opposite in each one of them. yang has a dot of yin and yin has a dot of yang, as they both complement each other and one induces the other. they are tightly knit together, one could argue they are the two sides of the same coin...

 

And Jesus also talked about how to create the golden elixier, allthough cryptically, in verse 106, for example:

> (106) Jesus says:
> (1) “When you make the two into one, you will become sons of man.
> (2) And when you say ‘Mountain, move away,’ it will move away.”

(sons of man is a title for offspring of the perfect one, the first "man" aka Adam, who was 100% perfect before the fall)

 

Anyway, there are many traditions and many esoteric sayings, which I have not referenced outright, which point at this general direction.

The muslims "pray" (repetition of words; mantra meditation) by placing their hands on their belly buttons and doing a few stretching movements.. i think its a veiled form of internal alchemy!

 

In general, the abrahamic flavors seem to use the formula: celibacy + xing practice (or non-practice, lol, letting go, non-doing).

I think this is called xing before ming in taoism.

Xing before ming, in true christendom, evolves into xing with ming at the same time, once ming becomes doable due to xing cultivation - as one other daobummer once pointed out in a completely different context but still related: "how can a pianist play the piano, if he has no hands? he first needs to cultivate and have hands.. hence the higher teachings are secret or only given to those who qualify.." something along those lines - which makes sens in this context as well - how can you do ming work, if you are not aware of your chi and can not move it.

So I am of the "xing before ming" school, allthough nowadays I practice both at the same time, beceause I "grew hands", so to speak..

 

----

 

I am grateful for this community, there are many nuggets of wisdom and lots of interesting discussions. I am happy to be able to be part of it, allthough I am one who prefers personal, direct experience over theories, its still nice to have a few ideas or different POVs... and more importantly, likeminded people!

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Yeah, I basically poured out my entire heart!

Its been bothering me because I can not talk about this or my opinions about it with anyone IRL... its like I know a few things (or think I know; i have my opinions), but if I ever were to talk about it, people would think I am crazy...

 

Thanks for the welcome :)

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Welcome, so much wisdom and experience in your story.

Even though esoteric Christianity is fascinating, it also often indigests understanding and generates an excess of over-interpretation that weakens.

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11 hours ago, Eduardo said:

Welcome, so much wisdom and experience in your story.

Even though esoteric Christianity is fascinating, it also often indigests understanding and generates an excess of over-interpretation that weakens.

I am not using Christianity as my main framework, its a jumping board to me. its kindergaten level compared to truly non-dual, emptiness/stillness based traditions like advaita vedanta or kashmir shaivism or taoism.

What im trying to say is that im willing to drop or correct christian interpretations looking through the lense of other, higher traditions.

In fact, im of the belief that one can only arrive at the truth by distilling the common denominators across multiple traditions mainly due to 2 reasons:

 

- the passage of time has erroded the text (textual manipulation, insertions, deltions, modifications)

- symbolic/occult or codified nature of all spiritual texts

 

mainstream christendom is a joke because of the ignorance of reason 2. i suspect this is the case in taoism as well, but i wont claim it yet, the texts, allthough cryptic/codified, are not misleading per-say...

 

i do not believe in following a master, allthough i am aware that some sort of energy transmission (shaktipat, either officially or without the awareness of the student) is seen to be absolutely necessary to jump-start the personal evolution, never admitted though, but this being the reason, people of such lineages push for it even while not mentioning it.

 

i believe  in the doctrine of pratyekabuddha, a self enlightened one. i also believe in spontaneous enlightenment, which is what zen is trying to achieve - the highest form or method - as its instanteneous and does not require cultivatuon, which is subject to being corrupt or false due to wrong interpretations... anyway, since thats possible, there is a legit way and its justified to walk the path alone.

 

i would rather do it on my own or die trying than to submit to another person, who will exploit me... this world is filled with scammers and power/fame hungry people. if i saw a true buddha offering to help or teach, in our current times and eon, the only appropriate thing would be to kill him... or run as your life or destiny depends on it. im exaggerating a bit, but you now know where im coming from.

 

long story short: i am against masters and being left with only cryptic and corrupted ancient texts, the only legit approach seems to me to distill their common denominators. i have no better approach.

 

this approach has led me to neidan, so far. i was doing it before as well, but i did not have the concepts or words to describe it. it may evolve again. reality/experiences/truth > (holy) texts and  their interpretations or theories

 

im willing to even drop neidan, if there is something more descriptive of actual reality or the process of the alchemical transmutation

 

> overinterpretation that weakens

 

given my reasoning, what do you propose i do differently??

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7 minutes ago, PalmBreather said:

given my reasoning, what do you propose i do differently??

Honestly? Find a teacher. This is a dangerous path to follow alone, a teacher can show you the safe way to prevent you from harming your self, but also make your journey more efficient by teaching you methods that actually work.

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Buddha did start with the breath
But he didn't stop breathing for long
he evolves quickly

 

 

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On 07/05/2022 at 3:58 PM, PalmBreather said:

… Christ may have been a taoist …


I like to think so. :)   Welcome to the forum, great intro. : ) 

 

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