PalmBreather

Junior Bum
  • Content count

    10
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About PalmBreather

  • Rank
    Dao Bum

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  1. What is bigu ?

    bigu is a metaphor for celibacy.. grain is what all the commoners eat, in asian culture, that includes also the nobility. its sex and procreation! the sage is not a commoner. he does not "eat", but lives on chi/qi.. because not "eating" leads to the build up of chi!! Adam and Eve fell because they "ate". "The harlot eateth and wipeth her mouth and sayeth I have done no wickedness" come on guys...
  2. PalmBreather

    A few more observatios and realizations I have made in the last few days. 1.) You can do voluntary piloerection (in short: VPE) actively/intentionally - which is how I did them for the longest part ever since I acquired the ability, but also passively - which surprised me and which makes me now understand how you are supposed to discover it during meditation: you basically do emptiness meditation. this is too abstract and does not really make sense, what i mean by emptiness is that you let go of all bodily and mental "tension", in other words, you relax to the max (as one buddhist teacher said, which now makes sense to me) - you completely let go your body. with your mind, you scan each part of your body and intentionally relax it as "hard" as you can.. then you move on until all of your body is fully relaxed. the most important part is to undo the subtle "kegel" (ass/urinary tract clenching which everyone does). you do the same with your mind - relaxation means to not attach to any mental movement, let them occur and die down on their own.. feel free to fixate your awareness on a bodily point, but you can also fixate it on the mind itself. anyway, when you do that, after a certain time, orgasmic type of blissful feelings are gonna gather around your lower tantien, also a bit on your legs.. but it will be in your tantien, exactly there where the normal orgasm originates.. first, I was curious why it was happening, then I wanted to encourage it to intensify. I was expecting it to turn into an orgasm -- allthough I am a semen retainer / celibate and have been without break for a few years now, I was curious and would have allowed it to occur - this was my 2nd time, it happened a year or so ago as well, but I suppressed it - nowadays, konwing that orgasm is nothing but energy explosion, i wanted to see if meditative orgasm would behave differently than sexual orgasm. anyway, when i was encouraging the orgasm by breathing very deeply and relaxing my lower abdomen (internally, there is very subtle tension somewhere inside the coccyx - let it go mentally), the orgasm was building up and up and up, but never occurred. instead, what occurred was the same energy (chi !), which I cause to move throughout my body intentionally (VPE), started to happen on its own, but a bit warmer, penetrating up to my heart region and had more of an electric texture to it.. VPE is electric in nature anyway, but this was a bit stronger in its texture.. it was moving up and up and i was trying to encourage it with my deep breaths to culminate in an orgasm but it never did.. but from this, I conclude that with celibacy + emptiness meditaiton, you can become aware of chi and its movement. I think the orgasm, if lust and all the sexual stuff is stripped off, is basically chi movement. and it happens during meditation when you fully relax. these days, I continually have slight orgasmic bliss in my lower abdomen, extending all the way to the upper legs.. especially when i relax, i can not help but to rest my awareness on the blissful feelings centered in my lower tantien.. its kind of a cock-tease though, its continual 1/3 orgasmic bliss.. never the 3/3 (full) deal! i hope that in the coming days, I can induce an orgasm... if it can even be called that. 2.) Now this is more important - I have been researching the active component (Ming) of cultivation from taoist texts and have been contrasting it to the budhist literature, more precisely, the anapansati sutta (yet again) and I am now 100% convinced that Buddha was teaching energy-control (CHI-GONG), NOT awareness of the breath. I am literally 100% convinced of this. Here are my reasons...: First, it is commonly known in various internal alchemy schools, that "breath and mind are tied together" -- when this is stated, a following statement is made, that if you can control one, you can control the other... BUT... by "breath", it does not refer to the literal breath (breathign in air and breathing it out)... it is talking about CHI. in other words - you can use your chi to bring your mental movements to a standstill - and if you do that, you can enter jhana or samadhi (stillness). Buddha taught "meditation" in the anapanasati sutta in 16 steps which are grouped into 4 tetrads. Read through these 2 resources if you are not familiar with it: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ānāpānasati_Sutta#Core_instructions Now pay close attention to these details...: When you "breath" in, you can NOT be sensitive of the entire body, if its merely SUCKING IN BREATH. Therefore, this is NOT referring to breath as you would understand it normally. This is referring to condensing breath -> VPE or creating goosebumps in the entire body. And step 4 is very important - i will breath in calming bodily fabrications -> this is utlizing chi and taking control of bodily functions. the chi, if left on its own, is controlling your automatic breathing, thinking, the cells of your body doing their job. but if you take control of your chi, you control the whole body. this is literally what happens, when you do VPE - you are being filled with rapture, getting more and more intense. Then, you get orgasmic pleasure in the lower tantien. this is also whats called expreiencing "piti" just right before entering Jhana! Its rapture which is filling the entire body! piti is an electric feelign (goosebumps) covering your entire body, just like a lotus flower is covered fully by cold water of a lake because its fully submerged (thats how they grow afaik)... in regards to how to handle the eyes - the zen formula is the most accurate: have your eyes half open, half closed, defocused. but this is putting the cart before the horse, because if you intentionally do that, your awareness will be resting in your eyes and fuck up your meditation. instead, just put your awareness inside your lower tantien and focus on the chi movement. then, if someone else where to observe you, they would describe your eyes just like that - "setting mindfullness ot the fore" - you have the empty look into the infinite, because your real sight is set internally, someplace else. also, doing this, your eyes wont move at all. they have been disconnected from your awareness.. they are completely still!! In the last steps, while wielding chi, you are supposed to tackle the mind. In the last step, you halt the mind USING THE BREATH aka CHI (aka "the breath and mind are interdependent"). when you later stop chi movements alltogether, the BREATH STOPS, you enter what the yogis call the "kumbhaka" state! this is when the external breath stops, but you are nourished by the chi within. this is how a baby breaths inside the womb. it gets its energy through the umbilical cord into its lower dantien. this is when the chi is somewhat compressed to a dot down there.. meanwhile, an internal explosion is occuring and you are being catapulted out the body if you are not careful. this is to be avoided, as that would (acording to research, not experience) lead to an OOBE, which is not the goal. Nanci Trivellato is teaching a similar method (on youtube or in her books) which she calls "velo" - this is basically sending chi up and down your spine very fast, initially barely feeling it, but in later stages it being so strong, that you can voluntarily leave the body and do OOBE/astral projection. In parallel, the yogic framework tells you, that you need to progress through the 8 limbs (asthanga) linearly.. The 8 limbs contain "prana yama" ("breath" control, but it actually means energy/chi control). Using prana yama, you do pratyahara, which is withdrawal of senses. In eastern spiritual texts, there are not 5 senses but 6, the 6th being the mind (thinking) - thats a sense! So therefore, using chi awareness and being able to wield it, you use it in such a way, to withdraw it from all the senses. If you got the time, watch this and pay close attention: the next step in the linear progression is "dharana" - which is one pointedness of the mind. as it no longer is flactuating, as it has its energy source (chi) cut off, it can no longer spontaneously "move" (think), it stays one pointedly. this then turns to "dhyana" (jhana; the next step), which is the beginning of meditation, as you are being absorbed. this is how you acquire knowledge from the beyond in regards to the object of fixation (if you do kasina meditation, using a candle and focusing on the fire, you become able to do pyrokinesis - one of the first popes could stand in fire and not be burnt by it; why? because you have acquired "perfection" [siddhi] about fire, you have transcendental konwledge about it, using your chi and projecting it and making it intermingle with fire in a certain way, which you know, you can make yourself immune to it, you can create it out of thin air, etc. etc.) then, if one is not diverted into these phenomena, you further go inwards and samadhi happens. this is when duality consciousness collapses into non-dual awareness, initially, the duality of "subject" + "object of meditation" is reduced to the "object of meditation" and judging from the unfoldment from other frameworks, this turns into nothigness (or focus on nothingness, emptiness meditaiton, true Xing meditation). these later stages are just speculations on my part and I have rambled on quite a bit, now lets go back to limb #4 of yoga or rather, lets go to the acquisition of chi control in the process of internal alchemy: its the most important thing. and its taught in ALL traidtions. the buddhist formula looks like this to me: 1. celibacy 2. emptiness "meditation" (letting go as I described above) 3. becoming aware of chi movements 4. cultivating the movements of chi to acquire perfect control over it 5. using it to still bodily fabrications (including mental activity), ultimately leading to stillness 6. refining stillness to enter the Void (Tao, God)... PS: Basically, pour all your attention into chi-gong. cultivate your energy awareness and your ability to lead it. energy cultivation should consist of 2 components: summoning it (through condensing breath, for example) and moving it. whichever practice you use, does not matter. whether its taichi, qigong, microcosmic orbit, condensing breathing, yogic breathing, etc... those are just names.. its irrelevant. just move it up in certain ways. and be celibate so that you dont desensitize your nervous system to this feeling. dont drink alochol, dont take drugs - as they will desensitize you to that feeling. dont have lustful thoughts, because they will lead to wet dreams and drain your sensitivity... and dont eat too much, because when you pass stool, you will pass semen from your urinary tact as that huge load of stool will stimulate it when passing by! develop and strengthen your chi awareness and take the reigns over your physical body and dominate it, ultimately bringing it to an halt. "die before death" as the sufis say, basically - get even rid of your breath and you will see "God"! edit/ps: this is my current understanding, its subject to evolution
  3. PalmBreather

    Islam! But only in name, not practising, very secular people xD I was sent to the "sunday school" equivalent, learnt how to read arabic (but not how to understand the language), read the quran (without understanding it; the system is bs.. its like reading the bible exclusively in latin without understanding it; its a form of censorship) but then slowly dropped off. the whole system did not make sense to me. Nowadays, looking back, if I were forced to submit to Islam due to living in a country, I would lovingly take up Sufism! Its internal alchemy, repackaged as "Islam"... Thanks for the welcome
  4. How to recognise a taoist master

    No I am not.. but I have become aware of their existence & legitimacy due to my practices... I hope to be developing them on my own though.. The book "the coiled serpent" makes a great reference to these beings, calling them "superman", showing how in ancient times, many philosophers referenced them, and making the statement, that we, humanity, as of now, lack the capacity or (psychic) faculties to discern them. to us they simply look like normal humans.. or perhaps if they cloak themselves as animals, just as normal animals! in another way put, to us they are nothing but "wolves [above human] in sheep [human] clothes", hence we need to be careful how we conduct ourselves publicly, as we may be "entertaining angels [above human] unawares"... what it basically boils down to, is having cultivated enough chi awareness to the point of being able to wield it and make use of it, as a tool, for example to gage another person's level.. two masters, back in the good old times, knew exactly how strong each other were through checking their chi levels from a distance! things like that.. the avg. Joe (who is a coomer, btw.) has no clue about chi, nor can he use it.. the master walks around with a "wallhack", so to speak, sensing all the chi of all people either in his close proximity or in the entire universe... you can not discern such a person, but he can discern you! he can shaktipat-style grope you without you even being aware! and such teachers only approach students who have accumulated enough jing, for example through celibacy ("purity")... IF they ever decide to approach, which is the next big hurdle - they dont really give a shit afaik.. at least from my research into the (true) occult texts, not the mainstream edgy type stuff...
  5. How to recognise a taoist master

    if you can teach a rock how to receive radio signals, you can teach a normal mortal to recognize an immortal... (spoiler alert: you cant) you simply lack the faculties to discern such a being..
  6. The Hermetic Tradition or Lineage

    You mean like this, "Holy Holy Holy"? Thrice Great = Thrice Holy?! The masons admit that the bible is the same old religion of egypt, just rebranded... They are its writers... The cross of "Christ" is allegory of neidan - accepting cristos/jing (celibacy, true christianity), leading it up the 33 vertebrates of the spine (age of mythical Christ's crucifixtion) into your golgotha ("place of skull")... this is about transmuting jing all the way up to the "Most High" (brain or upper dantien). Many hints are given how to do neidan properly - the parable of the 10 virgins: 5 foolish, 5 wise, talks about how the wise can enter when its dark (meditation) to see the king (God, Tao, emptiness)... its by having "oil" (cristos) in their "lanterns" - the foolish dont have oil, they have wasted it.. As per Jesus' sayings, "dont take thought (...) dont take thought (...) dont take thought (...)" - emptiness (xing) meditation or contemplative, centering prayer aka non-donig (stillness). Jing + stillness -> wuji phenomenon of creating the golden elixier, which splits into 2 (ying and yang) which then mingles and produces the child (3rd) and this process is repeated until 10.000 (all of reality) is created. Since reality is dualitstic, this happens in a dual fashion - 1st, on a macrocosmic scale (big bang type of deal), creation reality, 2nd on a microcosmic scale - inside of you, giving you the immortal/rainbow/glorified/incorruptible body... "The yoke of Christ is easy", btw... you just let go, mainly of lust and of thoughts.. and with these two, all other things automatically fall away over time and you end up in the void or the dark abyss... staring into it, it will stare back... because its not 2, but 1 thing that is doing the staring - this is when duality awareness collapses into non-dual perception or unity consciousness... and...: "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." St Paul alluded to this through the allegory of the 1 body / church -- all are just part of the 1 and there is ultimately nothing but that 1 (Tao)... its the same old non-dual philosophy, just with different names, labels, branding and occultic cipher!
  7. PalmBreather

    thanks for the welcome
  8. PalmBreather

    I am not using Christianity as my main framework, its a jumping board to me. its kindergaten level compared to truly non-dual, emptiness/stillness based traditions like advaita vedanta or kashmir shaivism or taoism. What im trying to say is that im willing to drop or correct christian interpretations looking through the lense of other, higher traditions. In fact, im of the belief that one can only arrive at the truth by distilling the common denominators across multiple traditions mainly due to 2 reasons: - the passage of time has erroded the text (textual manipulation, insertions, deltions, modifications) - symbolic/occult or codified nature of all spiritual texts mainstream christendom is a joke because of the ignorance of reason 2. i suspect this is the case in taoism as well, but i wont claim it yet, the texts, allthough cryptic/codified, are not misleading per-say... i do not believe in following a master, allthough i am aware that some sort of energy transmission (shaktipat, either officially or without the awareness of the student) is seen to be absolutely necessary to jump-start the personal evolution, never admitted though, but this being the reason, people of such lineages push for it even while not mentioning it. i believe in the doctrine of pratyekabuddha, a self enlightened one. i also believe in spontaneous enlightenment, which is what zen is trying to achieve - the highest form or method - as its instanteneous and does not require cultivatuon, which is subject to being corrupt or false due to wrong interpretations... anyway, since thats possible, there is a legit way and its justified to walk the path alone. i would rather do it on my own or die trying than to submit to another person, who will exploit me... this world is filled with scammers and power/fame hungry people. if i saw a true buddha offering to help or teach, in our current times and eon, the only appropriate thing would be to kill him... or run as your life or destiny depends on it. im exaggerating a bit, but you now know where im coming from. long story short: i am against masters and being left with only cryptic and corrupted ancient texts, the only legit approach seems to me to distill their common denominators. i have no better approach. this approach has led me to neidan, so far. i was doing it before as well, but i did not have the concepts or words to describe it. it may evolve again. reality/experiences/truth > (holy) texts and their interpretations or theories im willing to even drop neidan, if there is something more descriptive of actual reality or the process of the alchemical transmutation > overinterpretation that weakens given my reasoning, what do you propose i do differently??
  9. PalmBreather

    Yeah, I basically poured out my entire heart! Its been bothering me because I can not talk about this or my opinions about it with anyone IRL... its like I know a few things (or think I know; i have my opinions), but if I ever were to talk about it, people would think I am crazy... Thanks for the welcome
  10. PalmBreather

    Hello, I would like to introduce myself properly by giving my related background in regards to internal alchemy, which is what i am about... I started out with the religion of my parents until early teenage years, became agnostic as it didnt matter to me and later on picked up interest in Christendom. Not having any preconceived notions about anything Christian by external teachings... and reading the book on my own, I came to other conclusions than those that are mainstream. My understanding or interpretation has evolved multiple times, after which I took a step back and realized that relying on interpretation, understanding, knowledge or reasoning is not enough and can be misleading. That was the main point that made me stop trying to reach God with the intellect, but start walking the path of the mystic (experiencing God > knowing God). One day, I had a very interesting experience, which changed everything. I sat on my bed or I was lying, I dont know and had a moment where I totally surrendered to "God", giving up my life, basically, saying its all yours and meaning it and fully giving up... As I was lying there, my body started to burn hot. Internal waves of goosebumps emerged that came in waves, stronger and stronger, and overtook my entire body. If I was to describe it, I would say my body was in blazing, overwhelming, invisible fire, which did not burn me, but which I could sense! At that moment, I had no clue what was happening, but nowadays, I think I know... anyway, as it was happening, I was thinking of God's embrace, of verses like "God is a burning fire" which does not burn, things of that nature, which intensified the whole experience... IIRC, it kept going for 2-3 minutes, give or take and then i went to sleep. I never paid more attention or taught to it, but nowadays, I think it was a key event in my energetic unfolding - i think it started it all. Anyway, I evolved from Christianity by becoming a perennialist, due to my mystical/esoteric approach to the bible. I discovered non-duality, first in the bible, then noticed how other traditions, mainly buddhism (secretly) and advaita vedanta (openly) are teaching the same thing. I realized that "God" is not personal, but rather impersonal and more than that, that God's identity, which I knew was "ineffable" - somethign that did not make much sense to me, was beyond concepts, language or reason, making me understand the ineffible-ness of God's identity. It transcends the intellect or speech, the Tao that can be talked or written about, is not the real Tao... The buddhists call it the void or emptiness.. The evolution of my understanding has been happening in multiple strands, in parallel. The main strand or framework I was working with, was alchemical Christianity (occultism), but I was open minded so I was pursuing other maps or frameworks like budhism and yoga (of patanjali) to better understand what they were all pointing at. As a perennialist, I view God as a mountain-top, with different starting points having different paths (potentially-) all leading to the same top, or trying to, at least. From Christendom, I understood that the way to God is by "Christ" alone - which is an occultish way to say that celibacy is sine-quo-non. This knowledge has been esoterically distilled from a few things...: - the allegory of the fall of Adam & Eve, who "ate" from the forbidden "tree" placed in the "midst of the garden". ther is a verse that says one should come to a conclusion on a matter by taking multiple witnesses in court cases, but esoterically speaking, this is referring to textual interpretation - so, there is another place (Proverbs 30:20) which says "the whore eats and wipes her mouth and says she has done nothing wrong", showing and indicating that "eating" = sex, making the allegory of Adam & Eve all about sex, as they also "ate".. making the forbidden tree the genitelia, the garden the center of the human body etc. - allegory of Christ's crcufixition - being crucified at the age of "33" in "golgotha" is code for the spine, which has 33 vertebrates and the human skull: "golgotha" literally means "place of skull" - the word "Christ" means anointing or oil, in the original, its "cristos" - this is the same "oil" of the parable of the 10 virgins, all of whom seek to enter the "kindgom of God" (deciphered: samadhi/jhana), 5 wise having "oil" in their lantern, 5 foolish who dont have "oil" and cant enter during the dark night (meditation) - the Christ (anointing, oil, essence, "jing"), which came from above ("Most High" / "God" - aka the brain, pituary/pineal) must also go up the same way it came down - by being accepted (celibacy) and not rejected (sexual indulgence) - "to know" meaning to have sex and the saying "know thyself" occultishly referring to self-frucitication (internal alchemy).. Equipped with this knowledge, I practiced mainly 2 things: - meditation - celibacy (both of which are simply non-doings, now that I think about it - I did not "do" those things, I rather stopped "doing" in both instances xD the yoke of Christ is easy after all...) The form of meditation I practiced was what Buddha described in the anapana-sati sutta. Awareness of the breath. By "breath", I mean the false breath - the mechanism by which we suck in air. These days, my main interpretation for "breath" in occult or spiritual ancient texts is Chi automatically, because you can breath chi as well. Sooner or later, I discovered that I can voluntarily cause piloerection, in short - create goosebumps voluntarily with my breath. I now understand this as chi-control. Initially I did not understand the significance of it and ignored it, but thanks to articles I found here and elsewhere, correlating it with the other knowledge I have, I think its the key to all of it.. The comment I am referring to is this one: Having spent some time here and having read about xing and ming (a 60+ page pdf called "Destiny, Vital Force, or Existence? On the Meanings of Ming in Daoist Internal Alchemy and Its Relation to Xing or Human Nature by Fabrizio Pregadio"), I think I now have somewhat of a better understanding of what the process is really all about. (I am still not hipp to the taoist lingo, but i am trying xD) And I find myself more leaning towards Taoism or rather, internal alchemy (neidan) than any other framework, as its the most straight forward and the one that makes most sense to me personally, assuming you know what the cryptic elements mean. All spiritual texts are cryptic, but if you have a little bit of progress or related knowledge to compare it to, you can usually make sense of it... or delude yourself you are undersanding them, lol xD Here is my current understanding ,which is ever-evolving: - Meditation (false xing exercise, post-heaven xing?) creates true ming (chi movement, awareness of chi, voluntary piloerection), when the body and mind are completely and 100% relaxed (no movement: physical stillness and 0 muscle tension + no thoughts) - True Ming & its exercise (chi-gong, taichi, external movements but paying 80% attention to the movement of the chi internally, not the physical form or movement) is what charges the battery at the core of the human system and allows for true xing (jhanic absoprtion, samadhi, emptiness) to occur The anapanasati sutta is ingenious in the way, that it contains both elements. You progress from the breath of air to the breath of chi all naturally. Once you do celibacy or become a monk and then completely relax the body and mind for a while, you feel start feeling the pulsations of chi in your body (mainly abdomen), which are exponentially intensified through celibacy.. and sooner or later, acquire control over them. You start feeling light-orgasmic sensations in your abdomen when you fully relax and meditate! This is the bliss of the secluded monks, Buddha talked about, who were entering Jhana! When the breath is traced down, which naturally occurs, as you can not focus your attention to the nose-tip as mainstream buddhist teachers teach, because you have let go of all control (even awareness) to achieve stillness, bodily and mentally, awareness itself will natural latch on to the breath and follow it down to the belly. in the belly, when the breath is slow (long), heat sensations will start to form near the belly button and it will heat up. this natural xing-approach can be simulated by a ming approach of doing reverse breathing and intentionally moving chi (voluntary piloerection) to the belly region. visualizing energy moving in from your limbs like electricity down into your belly helps a lot. 2 different approaches, but the same effect. i think once this center is charged sufficiently, it spills over to higher regions which is when supernatural phenomena are gonna start occurring around you, usually unintentionally and without control... perhaps you can gain control, but I am not that far yet and I am not really interested, tbh... i could not make sense of it either, it seems that certain physical phenomena occur, when there is a "delta" in awareness, say you are at 50% of stillness or emptiness (random number) and then you drop to 49% or jump to 51% abruptly for whatever reason, this has a ripple effect on physical reality. this is the best way I can describe it and I could not induce it by will, it happens on its own or is out of control... i could not attribute it to anything else, because its hard to "think" while not thinking or being completely still.. so when the phenomena occur, it rips me out of emptiness completely when i try to make sense of it, completely stopping the whole process! i think thinking (mental movements) are too coarse for supernatural phenomena - you have to have a super subtle mind with super subtle movements during stillness, to (probably) intentionally induce these things. and even then, how would you do that, when you have to let go of all things to reach such levels of stilness (non-doing)? how to do while not doing? i have no idea... its super complex and I have no one to really talk to about these things, except perhaps you guys! I believe that dual-cultivation is necessary and complementary to each other, cultivating both energy (chi movement) + stillness (100% body/mind relaxation, no wavering at all, no movement of any sort). Christ may have been a taoist, btw., having said what he said in the gospel of Thomas verse 50, in regards to where we come from: > (50) Jesus says: > (1) “If they say to you: ‘Where do you come from?’ (then) say to them: ‘We have come from the light, the place where the light has come into being > by itself, has established [itself] and has appeared in their image.’ > (2) If they say to you: ‘Is it you?’ (then) say: ‘We are his children, and we are the elect of the living Father.’ > (3) If they ask you: ‘What is the sign of your Father among you?’ (then) say to them: ‘It is movement and repose.’” Movement (ming) and repose (stillness) or yang and yin, etc.. The Tao (stillness, void, emptiness, nothingness) spontaneously created unity (golden elixier, the unification of yin and yang) which split into duality (yin and yang), which procreated the 3rd (mother+father=child) and from this process came all the things (10.000 things)... so its about uniting duality, merging movement with stillness, action in non-action, doing in non-doing or non-doing in doing - i think this is what wuwei refers to, ultimately. effortless action is born, when both yin and yang merged into one. no one can do this, except the exalted ones, the taoist immortals, the boddhisattvas, the saints, etc. etc. intentionally. in regards to internal alchemy, I think this refers to controlling energy while being in stillness. its kinda paradoxical, how is there a "doing" (yang, chi-control) in "non-doing" (meditation, yin). i think the answer is: spontaneity - its a natural phenomenon, its not you, who does anything, it is something which follows a certain law and happens on its own on the path of cultivation. i think this is what has been depicted in the yin and yang symbol, where there is a dot of the opposite in each one of them. yang has a dot of yin and yin has a dot of yang, as they both complement each other and one induces the other. they are tightly knit together, one could argue they are the two sides of the same coin... And Jesus also talked about how to create the golden elixier, allthough cryptically, in verse 106, for example: > (106) Jesus says: > (1) “When you make the two into one, you will become sons of man. > (2) And when you say ‘Mountain, move away,’ it will move away.” (sons of man is a title for offspring of the perfect one, the first "man" aka Adam, who was 100% perfect before the fall) Anyway, there are many traditions and many esoteric sayings, which I have not referenced outright, which point at this general direction. The muslims "pray" (repetition of words; mantra meditation) by placing their hands on their belly buttons and doing a few stretching movements.. i think its a veiled form of internal alchemy! In general, the abrahamic flavors seem to use the formula: celibacy + xing practice (or non-practice, lol, letting go, non-doing). I think this is called xing before ming in taoism. Xing before ming, in true christendom, evolves into xing with ming at the same time, once ming becomes doable due to xing cultivation - as one other daobummer once pointed out in a completely different context but still related: "how can a pianist play the piano, if he has no hands? he first needs to cultivate and have hands.. hence the higher teachings are secret or only given to those who qualify.." something along those lines - which makes sens in this context as well - how can you do ming work, if you are not aware of your chi and can not move it. So I am of the "xing before ming" school, allthough nowadays I practice both at the same time, beceause I "grew hands", so to speak.. ---- I am grateful for this community, there are many nuggets of wisdom and lots of interesting discussions. I am happy to be able to be part of it, allthough I am one who prefers personal, direct experience over theories, its still nice to have a few ideas or different POVs... and more importantly, likeminded people!