What exactly is stored in the LDT?

[Bindi]

I would like to engage with the question, “what is stored in the ltd”. From my experience. First, it’s nature is water, this is fundamental. I would go so far as to say, if you’re not describing it as water, you’re not describing the Jing that is converted into qi that is converted into Shen, you’re describing something else, maybe something more on a physical level. Good questions to ask would be what does water symbolise on a metaphysical level? Another question I’d ask, and I’m asking myself right now, is alchemical symbolism a cultural notion or a fundamental reality of the subtle body? 

[Shadow_self]

I think it is best to look at the  Kan (water) trigram to conceptualize it

Consider the peripheral lines, and consider the center line...Think about the Yin and Yang aspects of the Jing. Reflect on what happens when the small waterwheel really gets going

Edited February 25, 2022 by Shadow_self

[Lairg]

Substance from the Latin Substare - to stand under.  So Jing stands under.  Time for more subtle thought?

[almaxy]

I have another question, I believe it was said above that Jing also gets consumed when you think of sex all the time and keep getting erections, but what if I get random erections throughout the day without thinking about sex, what does this means? This means that I'm consuming Jing anyways because it turned Yang or it's just a normal process to get random erections?

[Lairg]

I recall my younger son, at age 9 months would often have erections.  I am not sure he was thinking about sex. 

 

Perhaps there is more biological energy in the young.  Certainly old men often have trouble having erections. but then, old women often lose interest in sex so it works out for those women.

 

As we know: energy follows thought.  It also follows emotion.  My own view is that relationship, internal and external, is more important than energy.   

 

 

[Trunk]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:51 AM, Indiken said:

... clearly defines "Essence" or "Jing" as a "Vital Substance".

 

So, I see 4 possibilities here:

1. You are lying
2. Giovanni Macioca is lying
3. I misunderstand
4. You and Giovanni Macioca are speaking about different things using the same words

Could you clarify ?

 

Legit question, and I get that you weren't trying to be trashy (maybe unfortunate wording, but hey).

 

This might sound like a cliche dodge, but not intended as such.

I would say that there are commonly levels to things in esoterica.  The range of physical ~ personal energetics ~ universal subtlety.  So, legitimately, you can often talk about the same thing confined at any certain level, or step through its' transformations (though it's rare to hear anyone speak accurately along that line, imho).

 

So, given the above.  Giovanni is correct; jing is a substance.  And jing has many permutations throughout the body (bone marrow, for instance).  And can be refined esoterically (into a vapor, into light) and there are jing conversations that are mostly based in esoterica, anatomy etc (but, again, rare to get it all clear, imho, though this conversation has some remarkable posts in it).

 

Same thing happens when you start talking Taoist alchemy.  Like "kan & li" (inversion of water & fire).  It's not hard to find a half dozen versions of what kan & li is, applied in different ways, often at different levels of the range of substance ~ consciousness.

 

The whole thing's a mess, I know. 

 

Anyway, that's my 3 cents,

Trunk

[freeform]

24 minutes ago, Trunk said:

different levels of the range of substance ~ consciousness.

Yeah I agree with what you’re saying. 
 

I tend to say that these ideas are context dependent.

 

Meaning that the term “qi” means something different depending on the context it’s being used in.

 

The “qi” in Feng Shui means something quite particular within that context… but that particular meaning doesn’t apply in the context of Taiji. And the qi of Taiji is different to the qi of TCM.

 

Similarly Jing sounds like a standalone thing - but it’s so multifaceted that it can mean something completely different in the context of medicine vs the context of internal alchemy… yet at the same time both these contextual understandings are just focusing on one or another facet of this multifaceted ‘thing’.

 

What’s most important is not the concepts but in understanding what these things are as an expression of your experience in the arts you’re undertaking.

 

[almaxy]

Since we are all happy talking about jing, jing here, jing there, I have a very insteresting and maybe controversial question:

 

WHAT IS THE ROLE OF JING IN WOMEN ATTRACTION?

 

I'm asking this because frequently I used to stumble upon a discussion and someone would always say that ''oh I'm 30 days without ejaculating and girls look at me more and they want to date me and etc...'' , is this for real?

[Lairg]

Some females are very drawn to intense sexual energy in males.   I am not sure that is the basis for long term or monogamous relationships.   

 

Also too great emphasis on elemental sexuality may indicate the presence of adverse influences that feed off human sexual energies.

 

Personally I prefer females that are interested in higher functions.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

9 hours ago, almaxy said:

''oh I'm 30 days without ejaculating and girls look at me more and they want to date me and etc...'' , is this for real?

No

[awaken]

看各位討論精討論了半天，我很確定，沒人搞得清楚什麼是精

 

精是精華的意思，很多人以為精是精液，那是一個誤解，誤解的原因是，因為練到某一個程度，心竅開啟之後，達到一個陰盡陽純的狀態，開始進入虛空定，開始凝結金丹的時候，會產生一個特殊的生理現象，就是不管是男的女的，生理會有極大的變化，男的精液和女的經血，都會消失，只剩下少量的組織液，因此，這種特殊的現象，讓古人認為，這是因為煉精化氣造成的。

 

至於進入虛空定之後，為什麼會有這種特殊的生理現象，我也不知道，我自己只有經歷過幾個月而已，並沒有長期處在這種狀態，也沒遇到有其他人有這種狀態可以跟我討論，如果你有，你可以跟我討論一下。

[freeform]

18 minutes ago, awaken said:

至於進入虛空定之後，為什麼會有這種特殊的生理現象，我也不知道，我自己只有經歷過幾個月而已，並沒有長期處在這種狀態，也沒遇到有其他人有這種狀態可以跟我討論，如果你有，你可以跟我討論一下。

Once stillness is achieved, the Jing begins to consolidate and transform. 
 

The fist stage of physiological change is subtle. If the Jing is refined through alchemical means (which may happen spontaneously if you have a teacher or have had a transmission). The result of the refinement is a more substantial change in physiology - particularly when the jade fluid begins to flow down from the top.

[freeform]

24 minutes ago, awaken said:

看各位討論精討論了半天，我很確定，沒人搞得清楚什麼是精

 

精是精華的意思，很多人以為精是精液，那是一個誤解，誤解的原因是，因為練到某一個程度，心竅開啟之後，達到一個陰盡陽純的狀態，開始進入虛空定，開始凝結金丹的時候，會產生一個特殊的生理現象，就是不管是男的女的，生理會有極大的變化，男的精液和女的經血，都會消失，只剩下少量的組織液，因此，這種特殊的現象，讓古人認為，這是因為煉精化氣造成的。

 

至於進入虛空定之後，為什麼會有這種特殊的生理現象，我也不知道，我自己只有經歷過幾個月而已，並沒有長期處在這種狀態，也沒遇到有其他人有這種狀態可以跟我討論，如果你有，你可以跟我討論一下。

translation:

 

Quote

After discussing for a long time, I'm sure that no one can figure out what is.

 

Essence means essence. Many people think that essence is semen, which is a misunderstanding. The reason for misunderstanding is that because after practising to a certain level, after the mind is opened, it reaches a state of yin and yang, starts to enter the void and calm, and begins to condense the elixir, a special physiological phenomenon will occur, that is, whether it is a man or a woman. There will be great changes in physiology. Both men's semen and women's menstrual blood will disappear, leaving only a small amount of tissue fluid. Therefore, this special phenomenon made the ancients think that it was caused by refining gas.

 

As for why there is such a special physiological phenomenon after entering the void, I don't know. I have only experienced it for a few months, and I haven't been in this state for a long time, and I haven't encountered anyone else who has this state to discuss with me. If you have it, you can discuss it with me.

 

[awaken]

搬運法裡面提到所謂的玉液往下流，那個應該還不到虛空定陰盡純陽的地步，那個只是身體脊椎的水開始循環而已，離陰盡陽純，還有超級遠的距離

 

精真的被煉化完全，那個地方已經不是練搬運法的人可以想像的，也請不要把搬運法那套氣感運行拿來套用，根本不是一回事

 

搬運法有一個很大的問題，就是牛頭不對馬嘴，你跟他講虛空定，結果他跟你講的還是卡在氣感運行，就像你跟他講博士班的課程，他卻拿幼稚園的東西來跟你套用

 

虛空定不是出現在沒有念頭狀態的氣感運行，跟各位說一下整個流程，氣感運行後面是烏肝光，烏肝光後面是兔髓光黍米光，當然烏肝光和欲界幻境會交替出現，然後進入六識暫停的三禪四禪，然後才會開始產生陽生現象，也就是曼陀羅現象，曼陀羅的陽生會產生演化，從小幾何，到大幾何，到大圓月，到真人金丹，這時候才是虛空定，所以拜託不要把氣感運行的超級幼稚園程度，拿來套用虛空定，你還有十萬八千里路要走，請加油。

Edited February 28, 2022 by awaken

[freeform]

@awaken

 

Unfortunately there’s only so much we’re able to discuss using online translation.
 

For something as subtle as the workings of internal alchemy, this just won’t work.

 

Translation:

Quote

In the handling method, it is mentioned that the so-called jade liquid flows down. That should not be as good as the void to determine the yin and the pure yang. That is just the water on the spine of the body begins to follow the ring, and there is also a super far distance from the yin and the yang.

The essence has really been refined completely. That place is no longer imaginable by people who practice the handling method. Please don't apply the style of transportation method. It's not the same thing at all.

There is a big problem with the handling method, that is, the bull's head is not right. You tell him about emptiness, but what he tells you is still stuck in temperament. Just like you tell him about the doctoral course, he uses kindergarten things to you.

The void must not appear in the Qi sense movement without an idea state. Let me tell you about the whole process. After the Qi feeling operation is black liver light, and behind the black liver light is the rabbit marrow light millet light. Of course, black liver light and the fantasy of desire will alternate, and then enter the three meditations and four meditations suspended by the six knowledge, and then the Yangsheng phenomenon will begin to occur, that is It is the Mandala phenomenon. The Yangsheng of Mandala will evolve. From the small geometry, to the big full moon, to the real person Jindan, this is the void, so please don't apply the super kindergarten degree of temperament to the void. You still have 100,000 miles to go. Please come on.

 

[almaxy]

And what about Zhan Zhuang in all of this, can someone who is not retaining his seed practice it, or they will be overstressing their bodies because the Jing will be low?

[Shadow_self]

9 hours ago, freeform said:

Once stillness is achieved, the Jing begins to consolidate and transform. 

 

I do prefer the term achievement rather than practice in regard to stillness

 

My understanding was always stillness is a state, which arises as a byproduct of practices performed in order to build the qualities to eventually reach said state.

[awaken]

22 hours ago, freeform said:

@awaken

 

Unfortunately there’s only so much we’re able to discuss using online translation.
 

For something as subtle as the workings of internal alchemy, this just won’t work.

 

Translation:

 

 

如果你只靠概念上的討論，你當然抓不到邊囉，所以我在我的空間開了一個主題，歡迎各位來寫日記，我再根據各位的日記，給予實質上的建議

[awaken]

18 hours ago, almaxy said:

And what about Zhan Zhuang in all of this, can someone who is not retaining his seed practice it, or they will be overstressing their bodies because the Jing will be low?

 

當然需要動功囉，不可能只練靜功或者只入定，那是不可能的，陰陽必須反覆交替

 

你如果用站樁，效果當然會比只練靜坐好，但是如果你還練動功，效果會比站樁好，但是如果你還在戶外練動功，效果會比室內練動功好，但是如果你不只在戶外練動功，而且你的動功是自發的，那效果會更好。

 

簡言之，你如果想掌握實際練的情況，你就必須寫日記，否則我幫不上忙

 

本來我是有開了一個QQ的空間，有來了將近二十人，但是交流效果不好，所以各位還是在這個論壇，去找我的空間，在裡面開一個主題寫你的練功日記，這樣或許可以比較容易互動

Edited March 1, 2022 by awaken

[almaxy]

5 hours ago, awaken said:

 

當然需要動功囉，不可能只練靜功或者只入定，那是不可能的，陰陽必須反覆交替

 

你如果用站樁，效果當然會比只練靜坐好，但是如果你還練動功，效果會比站樁好，但是如果你還在戶外練動功，效果會比室內練動功好，但是如果你不只在戶外練動功，而且你的動功是自發的，那效果會更好。

 

簡言之，你如果想掌握實際練的情況，你就必須寫日記，否則我幫不上忙

 

本來我是有開了一個QQ的空間，有來了將近二十人，但是交流效果不好，所以各位還是在這個論壇，去找我的空間，在裡面開一個主題寫你的練功日記，這樣或許可以比較容易互動

Thanks a lot for this answer! So I guess a system which involves Zhan Zhuang and Tai Chi would be great, because I would be doind static meditation and moving meditation, any thoughts on this?

[awaken]

14 hours ago, almaxy said:

Thanks a lot for this answer! So I guess a system which involves Zhan Zhuang and Tai Chi would be great, because I would be doind static meditation and moving meditation, any thoughts on this?

 

本來身體就會有身體自己的語言，所以在自發的過程中，站樁，太極，八卦，身印，手印，都會自然發生，當然包含禪定

[anshino23]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

本來身體就會有身體自己的語言，所以在自發的過程中，站樁，太極，八卦，身印，手印，都會自然發生，當然包含禪定

Google Translate: "Originally, the body will have its own language, so in the process of spontaneous, standing, Tai Chi, gossip, body print, mudra, will all occur naturally, including meditation of course"

[anshino23]

21 hours ago, awaken said:

 

當然需要動功囉，不可能只練靜功或者只入定，那是不可能的，陰陽必須反覆交替

 

你如果用站樁，效果當然會比只練靜坐好，但是如果你還練動功，效果會比站樁好，但是如果你還在戶外練動功，效果會比室內練動功好，但是如果你不只在戶外練動功，而且你的動功是自發的，那效果會更好。

 

簡言之，你如果想掌握實際練的情況，你就必須寫日記，否則我幫不上忙

 

本來我是有開了一個QQ的空間，有來了將近二十人，但是交流效果不好，所以各位還是在這個論壇，去找我的空間，在裡面開一個主題寫你的練功日記，這樣或許可以比較容易互動

Google translate: 

"Of course, it is necessary to move the gong. It is impossible to only practice the quiet gong or only to enter into concentration. That is impossible. Yin and yang must be alternated repeatedly.

 

If you use standing posture, the effect will of course be better than just sitting still, but if you also practice movement, the effect will be better than standing, but if you also practice movement outdoors, the effect will be better than indoor movement, but If you not only practice kung fu outdoors, but your kung fu is spontaneous, the effect will be even better.

 

In short, if you want to grasp the actual situation, you have to keep a diary, otherwise I can't help

 

Originally, I opened a QQ space, and there were nearly 20 people who came, but the communication effect was not good, so you are still on this forum, go to my space, open a topic in it and write your practice diary, so that It may be easier to interact"

[Trunk]

when things go wrong... tension and stagnation are stored in the LDT

http://alchemicaltaoism.com/HTCaution.htm

[Trunk]

I have plenty of half-baked thoughts that might only add confusion; I’ll share a little bit.

 

Most of these conversations (especially when “saving jing” is involved, male practices) have the context of “on the cusp of being a superman”... and I think that that’s a dangerous place to start.  A couple of general questions, to mull over a long period of time ...

1. What are the typical dis-harmonies of the LDT?  (So that we can recognize them, and then have a better chance to go in the direction of better health, not worse).

 

2. What sort of practice & life-approach would be supportive of an average person?, average lifestyle?  *normal* healthy lifestyle?

 

My observation is that, as a community, we’re almost entirely lacking in acknowledging #1, and weak on #2.  We skip knowledge of typical disharmonies, knowledge of basic health, and (attempt to) go right into advanced.  It’s problematic, often injurious.

 

I’m not discounting the quality conversation in this thread, just saying that - typically - there tend to be neglected aspects.  The conversation at large has major gaps.