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Immortal4life

Bill Maher is right- The wet markets plus the Wuhan lab

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5 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Well, what option is going to change the present reality of life in the time of covid?

 

Do you believe blame makes it better somehow? Is there benefit in finger pointing in your opinion?

 

And what is it you're actually arguing? 

 

Did you misunderstand my intent? 

 

Would you like me to clarify, or would you prefer to continue your present trajectory?

 

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

What difference would it make in either, or any, case?

 

Covid is presently one of those facts of life that pointing fingers and placing blame isn't going to change. 

 

So how are you guys presently faring in whatever circumstances you currently find yourselves in?

See, 'You' weren't in the picture in those 3 sentences, were you? In fact, there was some finger-pointing of your own going on. 

 

Im merely stating the fact that your intention to make known your belief that there were more than 2 options available to you wasn't clear in the post above. I agreed that Covid 19 is a real event, and nothing can be done that will somehow make it vanish, but that does not imply one has to take what people say at face value, especially when its clear whats being said has a very limited scope, and has almost no basis in truth. 

 

It wasn't an argument, but if you want to make it into one, please proceed. 

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, ralis said:


‚ÄėThe conspiracy that China is using this particular corona virus for biological warfare makes the world a more dangerous place. Trump and his lackeys are alluding to this nonsense.¬†

China makes the world a dangerous place.

 

It's absolutely reasonable to suspect they might have leaked it deliberately. We dont know it was deliberate, but to not consider it is astonishingly naive.

 

I've never heard Trump allude to that, it has nothing to do with him, but every reasonable person would suspect it even if Mitt Romney or Hillary Clinton were president.

 

 

Edited by Immortal4life

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5 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

China makes the world a dangerous place.


It's absolutely reasonable to suspect they might have leaked it deliberately. We dont know it was deliberate, but to not consider it is astonishingly naive.

 

I've never heard Trump allude to that, it has nothing to do with him, but every reasonable person would suspect it even if Mitt Romney or Hillary Clinton were president.

 

 

 

Apparently you cherry pick what you want to hear and then spreading conjectures as if you're the only clued in to whats going on. 

 

This "We dont know it was deliberate, but to not consider it is astonishingly naive" is class! Bravo! lol

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9 minutes ago, C T said:

 

See, 'You' weren't in the picture in those 3 sentences, were you? In fact, there was some finger-pointing of your own going on. 

 

Im merely stating the fact that your intention to make known your belief that there were more than 2 options available to you wasn't clear in the post above. I agreed that Covid 19 is a real event, and nothing can be done that will somehow make it vanish, but that does not imply one has to take what people say at face value, especially when its clear whats being said has a very limited scope, and has almost no basis in truth. 

 

It wasn't an argument, but if you want to make it into one, please proceed. 

 

Slow down please.

 

The :in either case" referred to the ideas of the pandemic originating in a wet market or a lab. I then added "or any [other]" to include other possibilities.. 

 

And what I presented reflects a recent conversation I had with a coworker who was experiencing what they admitted was unreasonable anger towards Chinese people. 

 

I'll leave you to whatever this is now. 

 

Take care. 

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13 hours ago, Immortal4life said:

Your article just says it's a mystery and hasn't been conclusively solved.

 

It's either the wet market or the Wuhan lab. And it's not at all unreasonable to speculate that if it is the Wuhan lab that's the exact kind of thing China would do deliberately. 

 

it's unrealistic to think they will close down any wet markets.   They should have some changes effected but they are not going away.

 

The Pentagon has said their intelligence has also looked at these origin issues and while evidence tends to point to nature, it is not settled.   And I think that continues to show the reasonableness in continuing to look at the Lab origin.   Which does not have to be deliberate in the way you are saying.  It can be:

1. Deliberately spread and released

2. Deliberately sold as animal food (this is known to occur... which pulls in unintentional spread)

3. Accidental infection in lab

4. Accidental spread in lab

 

 

10 hours ago, C T said:

Dont you think its a worthwhile endeavour to weed out the falsehoods instead of buying into propaganda and spreading it like peanut butter? It wont change the facts, but it'll certainly make a difference separating facts from fallacies. Opens up options so that one is not confined to eating peanut butter every single day. That guy above is saying its either peanut butter or bust. I don't like peanut butter. 

 

The other day, you were arguing a conspiracy theory that the spread to the rest of the world was not from China... followed by the conspiracy movement that the administration would fire Fauci.  Yes, falsehood should be evaluated as otherwise we're getting worse than Fox News here on Bums.

 

If you disagree with his idea, just present your own, but you seem to just want to bully him. This is the new norm here being passed off as 'discussion'. 

 

If the topic is so binary, then don't eat peanut butter. 

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A decent article from the LA Times last month:

 

As some media outlets cover the coronavirus, journalists are mixing up wet markets and wildlife markets. But most wet markets are not wildlife markets, and confusing the two is dangerous.

 

‚ÄúWet‚ÄĚ markets are what China calls its fresh food markets, the kind you see all over the developing world and in many parts of Europe, where small stalls sell fresh vegetables and butchers sell meat, primarily pork. They are the daily market for tens of millions of Chinese who prefer to talk to the people who sell them produce, meat, seafood and tofu, and in small cities, are often the only outlet for small-scale farmers who can‚Äôt meet the supplier requirements for supermarkets. (Still, it‚Äôs important to differentiate: Most wet markets, especially in big cities, may look like farmers markets but are buying from the same wholesale suppliers as supermarkets.)

 

They are a cornerstone of China’s food distribution system and have benefits for society both tangible and intangible, from improved nutrition for children to stronger interpersonal relationships. So-called for their open-air origins, where the ground was hosed down throughout the day, they are the traditional backbone to China’s food supply system.

 

Read the rest here:

 

https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2020-03-11/coronavirus-china-wet-markets

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This is most likely conjecture on my part, but this particular virus may be the result of AGW (anthropogenic global warming). Why? When conditions change in the environment, albeit small initial changes, large effects can and will occur. This applies to viruses, bacteria, and insects. 

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10 hours ago, Immortal4life said:

China makes the world a dangerous place.

 

It's absolutely reasonable to suspect they might have leaked it deliberately. We dont know it was deliberate, but to not consider it is astonishingly naive.

 

I've never heard Trump allude to that, it has nothing to do with him, but every reasonable person would suspect it even if Mitt Romney or Hillary Clinton were president.

 

 


If you conduct a Google search you will find this admin calling it the China or Wuhan virus. That kind of talk only leads to xenophobic madness among his sycophantic lackeys. 

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8 minutes ago, ralis said:

This is most likely conjecture on my part, but this particular virus may be the result of AGW (anthropogenic global warming). Why? When conditions change in the environment, albeit small initial changes, large effects can and will occur. This applies to viruses, bacteria, and insects. 

There's an angle suggesting the melting ice caps in the Poles are releasing all sorts of sleeping pathogens, but I didn't save the link to the article. 

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

it's unrealistic to think they will close down any wet markets.   They should have some changes effected but they are not going away.

 

The Pentagon has said their intelligence has also looked at these origin issues and while evidence tends to point to nature, it is not settled.   And I think that continues to show the reasonableness in continuing to look at the Lab origin.   Which does not have to be deliberate in the way you are saying.  It can be:

1. Deliberately spread and released

2. Deliberately sold as animal food (this is known to occur... which pulls in unintentional spread)

3. Accidental infection in lab

4. Accidental spread in lab

 

 

 

The other day, you were arguing a conspiracy theory that the spread to the rest of the world was not from China... followed by the conspiracy movement that the administration would fire Fauci.  Yes, falsehood should be evaluated as otherwise we're getting worse than Fox News here on Bums.

 

If you disagree with his idea, just present your own, but you seem to just want to bully him. This is the new norm here being passed off as 'discussion'. 

 

If the topic is so binary, then don't eat peanut butter. 

Me bully him? I hope you're saying that in jest. You should read into the tones of some his posts first before judging my response. Thank you very much 

Edited by C T
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2 minutes ago, C T said:

There's an angle suggesting the melting ice caps in the Poles are releasing all sorts of sleeping pathogens, but I didn't save the link to the article. 


That is what the research is showing. A reindeer in Siberia that had been frozen in the permafrost thawed and several persons that came into contact were infected with anthrax. 

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Deforestation is going to be a constant danger for releasing pathogens, more than melting ice caps probably. Of course the two problems are linked.

 

China has had a huge reforesting program with mixed success. There are big flaws in the way it's been done though- for example, in many places, people are only planting one kind of tree.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

Deforestation is going to be a constant danger for releasing pathogens, more than melting ice caps probably. Of course the two problems are linked.

 

China has had a huge reforesting program with mixed success. There are big flaws in the way it's been done though- for example, in many places, people are only planting one kind of tree.


Deforestation, melting ice caps, melting permafrost are key. Only fast growing trees are being planted which is leads to insect infestations which can wipe out the entire species. Monoculture is not wise. 

Edited by ralis

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17 minutes ago, C T said:

Me bully him? I hope you're saying that in jest. You should read into the tones of some his posts first before judging my response. Thank you very much 

 

On 4/14/2020 at 10:54 AM, C T said:

Then you are refusing to be real and woke. 

 

 

Further comment will be fruitless since your mind's all made up already. 

 

 

On 4/14/2020 at 11:10 AM, C T said:

Whatever.

 

Been scanning some of your posts on other threads. Dubious at best. 

Could be wrong (though doubtful I am), but this bs meter I have's gone all a buzzin' about your participation here. 

 

 

12 hours ago, C T said:

If only life was always so clear cut 

there'd be paradise on earth

 

2 major theories as decreed by an obscure internet guy

got it

 

I read his tone in this thread.   At least he seems passionate about the topic and has a position that can be discussed, if one chooses to actually discuss something besides trying to degrade the other, and resting their position on peanut butter.  (BTW, I did find that somewhat funny).   I'm just saying.   How about we discuss the issue or just not bother with someone we seem to not like to have a discussion with.   

 

There appears to a recent trend to try and run people out of their own threads.  If this site culling and purging is meant to be anything useful, it ought to be to get to a better place of discussion which means we can allow others to have their opinions. 

 

 

[Apologies to OP on derailing]

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1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

 

 

 

I read his tone in this thread.   At least he seems passionate about the topic and has a position that can be discussed, if one chooses to actually discuss something besides trying to degrade the other, and resting their position on peanut butter.  (BTW, I did find that somewhat funny).   I'm just saying.   How about we discuss the issue or just not bother with someone we seem to not like to have a discussion with.   

 

There appears to a recent trend to try and run people out of their own threads.  If this site culling and purging is meant to be anything useful, it ought to be to get to a better place of discussion which means we can allow others to have their opinions. 

 

 

[Apologies to OP on derailing]


Need I remind you of how you have given opinions far more weight than deserved on this site. Not all opinions have equal weight. Some are worthless!

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54 minutes ago, ralis said:

This is most likely conjecture on my part, but this particular virus may be the result of AGW (anthropogenic global warming). Why? When conditions change in the environment, albeit small initial changes, large effects can and will occur. This applies to viruses, bacteria, and insects. 

You very well may be right about that. I saw a news story that bats are affected by global warming first because they live high in trees and then become more susceptible to viruses, which they spread to other species.

 

Edgar Cayce predicted the melting of the polar ice caps way back in the 1930s too.

 

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4 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

 

 

 

I read his tone in this thread.   At least he seems passionate about the topic and has a position that can be discussed, if one chooses to actually discuss something besides trying to degrade the other, and resting their position on peanut butter.  (BTW, I did find that somewhat funny).   I'm just saying.   How about we discuss the issue or just not bother with someone we seem to not like to have a discussion with.   

 

There appears to a recent trend to try and run people out of their own threads.  If this site culling and purging is meant to be anything useful, it ought to be to get to a better place of discussion which means we can allow others to have their opinions. 

 

 

[Apologies to OP on derailing]

Im glad that you find an opening header reading "Bill Maher's right" (the rest of you who believe otherwise are wrong?) qualifies as a position that can be discussed, because in order for the discussion to move in any way, there can only be 2 options for those who choose to participate  - either one cheers him on with pats on the back for creating such an 'open' topic, or push back with counter positions and arguments. I don't see anything you quoted above as having a 'bullying' stance, especially not the peanut butter metaphor... or did you read that as intimidating, too? 

 

Since I made the choice to participate, giving him a pat on the back wasn't an option. Im responding in appropriate measure to his posts based on what I perceive/intuit to be his dominant personality trait. I'd use the same approach with this person had this been a 'live' meeting. Not to mention he's the one with the big shotgun in his hand. I doubt very much he wants anyone to even suspect he's in any way bully-able. 

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49 minutes ago, ralis said:


If you conduct a Google search you will find this admin calling it the China or Wuhan virus. That kind of talk only leads to xenophobic madness among his sycophantic lackeys. 

Nonsense. This isnt political. Ebola, Huntavirus, Spanish flu, Hong kong flu, Rocky mountain fever,  Wuhan virus,  etc. etc. etc. Not political

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I have a hunch Immortal4Life won't be with us much longer. It also seems odd to me that he started posting so prolifically after a whole bunch of people were banned.

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Edgar Cayce predicted Earth Changes as well as the coming of the Spiritual teacher Jon Peniel. After learning Jon Peniels teachings I received a very special energy.  The ability at will to generate intense rushing energy, like super tingling, but also rushing almost like falling but not quite the same, continually growing and accelerating more and more by the second through my whole being, filling it more and more intensely by the second, and can apply it to the Pineal wave technique. So the prophecy is true and Earth Changes are likely coming in this century. Earth Changes are not a hoax.

 

http://www.gatheringspot.net/topic/inspirationstransformational-stories/who-jon-peniel-amazing-story

I have recently been reading Jon Peniel's account of his (alleged) true life current incarnation experience and many lives association with the ancient sect known as The Children of the Law of One, allegedly still very much active with alleged origin predating Atlantis and even the "Adam & Eve" mythological story. Here is a link that has the PDF of Jon's story.

 THE CHILDREN OF THE LAW OF ONE & THE LOST TEACHINGS OF ATLANTIS - Shattering The Matrix(link is external)

and here is a link direct to the PDF

luke 5th print.qxd - The_Lost_Teachings_of_Atlantis.pdf(link is external)

The following is a bit of a briefing, and some interesting history on the alleged fulfillment of an Edgar Cayce prophetic reading concerning a John Peniel...  This link is also a very interesting complimentary read relating to the book (Atlantian Sons(link is external) ) Enjoy

Q. Is the author the John Peniel predicted by Edgar Cayce and others?
A. When the book was first published, we weren't even aware of these predictions. Jon was only aware of those told to him by his teachers (which are similar predictions). The book was originally going to be published anonymously, but the publisher's rep insisted it have his name, stating that certain major distributors and bookstore chains wouldn't carry it without the author's name. So Jon agreed for the sake of distributing the message. After publishing the book, it was brought to our attention that the Edgar Cayce readings, and other sources, had predicted the arrival of a significant spiritual messenger/teacher by that name. We have since acquired the complete Cayce readings on CD ROM, and looked it up. Cayce said that Peniel would be bringing a message to the world about "a new spiritual order of things", which is essentially what is happening through the book, the teachings, and the Golden Rule Organization. Part of that reading, which was kindly sent to us by the A.R.E., is reproduced below.

TEXT OF READING 3976-15

              This psychic reading given by Edgar Cayce at the home of
              Mr. and Mrs. T. Mitchell Hastings, 410 Park Avenue, New York
              City, this 19th day of January, 1934, in accordance with
              request made by those present.

              P R E S E N T

              Edgar Cayce; Hugh Lynn Cayce, Conductor; Gladys Davis, Steno.
              Carolyn B. Hastings, Josephine L. B. Macsherry, T. Mitchell
              Hastings.  (Mrs. Hastings led in meditation, before Mr. Cayce
              went to sleep.)

              R E A D I N G

              Time of Reading
              11:40 to 12:40 A. M.

           1. HLC:  We seek at this time such information as will be of
              value and interest to those present, including T. Mitchell
              Hastings, Jr. in the next room, regarding the spiritual,
              mental and physical changes which are coming to the earth.
              You will tell us what part we may play in meeting and helping
              others to understand these changes.  At the end of each
              fifteen minute period you will pause, until I tell you to
              continue, while the recording instrument is being arranged.
              You will speak distinctly at a normal rate of speech, and you
              will answer the questions which we will ask.

           2. EC:  Yes; as each of you gathered here have your own
              individual development, yet as each seeks to be a channel of
              blessings to the fellow man, each attunes self to the Throne
              of universal information.  And there may be accorded you that
              which may be beneficial, not only in thine own experience,
              but that which will prove helpful, hopeful, in the
              experience of others.

           3. Many an one may question you as to the sources, as to the
              channel through such information that may be given you at
              this time has come.  Know it has reached that which is as
              high for each of you in your respective development as you
              have merited, and do merit; and has accorded and does accord
              to the realm of light that which may be aidful and helpful in
              thine own experience, and in the experience of those that ye
              in your service to thy fellow man may give unto others.

           4. Hence, in giving the interpretation, MANY are present;
              many of those whose names alone would bring to others awe -
              discredit, yet - even a wonderment.  For, not only then must
              the information be instructive but enlightening; yet it must
              also be so given that it may be a PRACTICAL thing in the
              experience of thine own self and in the experience of life of
              thine fellow man.  Not only must it be informative in nature,
              but it must also be that which is constructive; though
              [pause] that which is informative and that which may be
              enlightening and constructive must at times overlap one
              another.

           5. First, then:  There is soon to come into the world a body
              [See Par. 6 below]; one of our own number here that to many
              has been a representative of a sect, of a thought, of a
              philosophy, of a group, yet one beloved of all men in all
              places where the universality of God in the earth has been
              proclaimed, where the oneness of the Father as God is known
              and is consciously magnified in the activities of individuals
              that proclaim the acceptable day of the Lord.  Hence that one
              John, the beloved in the earth - his name shall be John, and
              also at the place where he met face to face [Peniel].
              [GD's note:  Could this mean that John, the beloved, had
              been Jacob?  See 3976-15, Par. R2.] * *attached below**

           6. When, where, is to be this one?  In the hearts and minds of
              those that have set themselves in that position that they
              become a channel through which spiritual, mental and material
              things become one in the purpose and desires of that physical
              body!  [GD's note:  Beginning of new age of spiritual
              awakening?  See 5749-5, Par. 5--7; 281-38, Par. 16.]

           7. As to the material changes that are to be as an omen, as a
              sign to those that this is shortly to come to pass - as has
              been given of old, the sun will be darkened and the earth
              shall be broken up in divers places - and THEN shall be
              PROCLAIMED - through the spiritual interception in the hearts
              and minds and souls of those that have sought His way - that
              HIS star has appeared, and will point [pause] the way for
              those that enter into the holy of holies in themselves.  For,
              God the Father, God the Teacher, God the director, in the
              minds and hearts of men, must ever be IN those that come
              to know Him as first and foremost in the seeking of those
              souls; for He is first the GOD to the individual and as He is
              exemplified, as He is manifested in the heart and in the acts
              of the body, of the individual, He becomes manifested before
              men.  And those that seek in the latter portion of the year
              of our Lord (as ye have counted in and among men) '36, He
              [He, Christ Spirit?] will appear.  [See 3976-1, Par R2
              (12/20/34 EC note in re '36), and 3976-10, Par. 4-A, 5-A on
              2/8/32 in re '36 changes.]

           8. As to the changes physical again:  The earth will be broken
              up in the western portion of America.  The greater portion of
              Japan must go into the sea.  The upper portion of Europe will
              be changed as in the twinkling of an eye.  Land will appear
              off the east coast of America.  There will be the upheavals
              in the Arctic and in the Antarctic that will make for the
              eruption of volcanos in the Torrid areas, and there will be
              shifting then of the poles - so that where there has been
              those of a frigid or the semi-tropical will become the more
              tropical, and moss and fern will grow.  And these will begin
              in those periods in '58 to '98, when these will be proclaimed
              as the periods when His light will be seen again in the
              clouds.  As to times, as to seasons, as to places, ALONE is
              it given to those who have named the name - and who bear the
              mark of those of His calling and His election in their
              bodies.  To them it shall be given.

           9. As to those things that deal with the mental of the earth,
              these shall call upon the mountains to cover many.  As ye
              have seen those in lowly places raised to those of power in
              the political, in the machinery of nations' activities, so
              shall ye see those in high places reduced and calling on
              the waters of darkness to cover them.  And those that in the
              inmost recesses of theirselves awaken to the spiritual truths
              that are to be given, and those places that have acted in
              the capacity of teachers among men, the rottenness of those
              that have ministered in places will be brought to light,
              and turmoils and strifes shall enter.  And, as there is
              the wavering of those that would enter as emissaries, as
              teachers, from the throne of life, the throne of light, the
              throne of immortality, and wage war in the air with those of
              darkness, then know ye the Armageddon is at hand.  For with
              the great numbers of the gathering of the hosts of those
              that have hindered and would make for man and his weaknesses
              stumblingblocks, they shall wage war with the spirits of
              light that come into the earth for this awakening; that have
              been and are being called by those of the sons of men into
              the service of the living God.  For He, as ye have been told,
              is not the God of the dead, not the God of those that have
              forsaken Him, but those that love His coming, that love His
              associations among men - the God of the LIVING, the God of
              Life!  For, He IS Life.

          10. Who shall proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord in him
              that has been born in the earth in America?  Those from that
              land where there has been the regeneration, not only of the
              body but the mind and the spirit of men, THEY shall come and
              declare that John Peniel is giving to the world the new ORDER
              of things.  Not that these that have been proclaimed have
              been refused, but that they are made PLAIN in the minds of
              men, that they may know the truth and the truth, the life,
              the light, will make them free.

          11. I have declared this, that has been delivered unto me to
              give unto you, ye that sit here and that hear and that see a
              light breaking in the east, and have heard, have seen thine
              weaknesses and thine faultfindings, and know that He will
              make thy paths straight if ye will but live that YE KNOW this
              day - then may the next step, the next word, be declared unto
              thee.  For ye in your weakness [pause] have known the way,
              through that as ye have made manifest of the SPIRIT of truth
              and light that has been proclaimed into this earth, that has
              been committed unto the keeping of Him that made of Himself
              no estate but who brought into being all that ye see manifest
              in the earth, and has declared this message unto thee:  "Love
              the Lord thy God with all thine heart," and the second is
              like unto it, "Love thy neighbor as thyself."  Who is thine
              neighbor?  Him that ye may aid in whatsoever way that he, thy
              neighbor, thy brother, has been troubled.  Help him to stand
              on his own feet.  For such may only know the acceptable way.
              The weakling, the unsteady, must enter into the crucible and
              become as naught, even as He, that they may know the way.  I,
              Halaliel, have spoken.

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2 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

Nonsense. This isnt political. Ebola, Huntavirus, Spanish flu, Hong kong flu, Rocky mountain fever,  Wuhan virus,  etc. etc. etc. Not political

 

It's actually not complete nonsense, given my recent conversation with a coworker who is a Trump supporter, and presently dealing with an underlying (and irrational by their own admission) current of anger towards any Asian person they see - owing in large part to how the limited information available has been disseminated in the sources they follow. 

 

And I'd suggest looking into the misnomer of "Spanish Flu" before citing it as grounds for the case you wish to make.

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Viruses are often named after locations , that's the only point.

 

Yeah there are racist idiots out there. That doesnt make naming a virus after a location racist or pandering to racist nutcases.

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9 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

Nonsense. This isnt political. Ebola, Huntavirus, Spanish flu, Hong kong flu, Rocky mountain fever,  Wuhan virus,  etc. etc. etc. Not political

 

If you look at Trump's rhetoric objectively, he has constantly railed against persons coming across the border which happen to be persons of color, which is xenophobic.  His attacks on a Hispanic Federal Judge, Muslims and so forth. He also has locked up in cages ones seeking legal asylum. That is xenophobic madness.

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Just now, ralis said:

 

If you look at Trump's rhetoric objectively, he has constantly railed against persons coming across the border which happen to be persons of color, which is xenophobic.  His attacks on a Hispanic Federal Judge, Muslims and so forth. He also has locked up in cages ones seeking legal asylum. That is xenophobic madness.

Yeah, and locking people in cages is not good. But naming Viruses after locations is a common practice and not related to that. Watch the video, Bill Maher hates Trump but he also is reasonable enough to realize this is not political, we cant tip toe and walk on egg shells cuz there are racist idiots out there.

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