OverseerFeatheredImmortal

Is this the so called Cinnabar Field

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Good day guys. I am your fellow Daoist Jun Yu Xian. In this thread, I have an inquery.

 

This past few days I have experienced something while doing breathing exercises. I felt some heat in my abdomen.

 

I don't know if it was the Dan Tian. It felt quite hot like a bowl of soup directly flowed inside my abdomen. I also felt some tingly feeling on my lower back.

 

I continued to remember the feeling. My mind was just observing the feeling and no other thoughts are running in my mind.

 

I felt so light like I emotions were shut off from my senses.

 

It felt so good then I tried my made up qi gong movements (TBH just random movements cause I dont really know Qi Gong). Vibrations were being manipulated from my shoulders to arms to hands and palms to my fingers. 

 

The feeling that travelled through my hands were synonimous to vibrations from a portable massager set in low.

 

That is cool. Suddenly My skin felt numb especially the muscles on my head and upper chest.

 

Please explain to me what is this feeling supposed to be.

 

The only place where I cant transmit vibration is on my lower half because I am on a sitting meditation position.

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This brings to mind one of my early 'energy experiences'. I had  started doing zazen not long before. One night, I was meditating at the beach side. Soon after, back at my holiday house and sitting on the front porch reading a book on Zen, I had a powerful sensation of energy in my lower dantian and radiating through my body. It was exhilarating. I adjusted my posture,  hoping to prolong the feeling. I also went to a nearby place in order to practice Karate forms.

 

The sensation lasted well into the morning. It had taken me by surprise as it was not mentioned in the books I had read so far and I too had questions. Alas, there were no forum boards yet at the time... :D

 

In retrospect,  I consider it an opening of energy channels in the LDT. And I assume your experience  is of a similar nature.

 

Best of luck!

 

Michael

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It felt so good then I tried my made up qi gong movements (TBH just random movements cause I dont really know Qi Gong). Vibrations were being manipulated from my shoulders to arms to hands and palms to my fingers. 


That is actually a real qigong practice. It's about letting the qi tell you how to move. I've seen a couple of Masters doing it. 

Sounds like you had a bit of an "experience". They are fairly common, but rarely talked about because it is so easy to get tripped up by them. 

 

Quote

Please explain to me what is this feeling supposed to be.


Oh wow! Is that ever the wrong way to frame the question. It's not supposed "to be" anything. It is what it is, and it's up to you to make sense of it on your own. It is tremendously important to look at an experience as it is without trying to shoehorn it into some sort of cultural language, or preconceived notion about what it's "supposed to be".  

Think of this as a time when you need to aspire to being the "uncarved block". The piece of wood is your life, and the carving is how your culture tells you how you should understand it. Take all the phrases like "cinnabar field", "qi", "dan dien", etc, and throw them away if they get in between you and what you really experienced. I'd suggest instead that you just describe exactly and objectively what happened to you instead of trying to fit the experience into a preconceived cultural framework. 

One last thing. IMHO, the really important stuff is the kung fu that you are following, not the fancy experiences you have when doing it. Think about this: the goal of meditation is meditation---not enlightenment. Consider it a koan. 

Think about it this way. In my sitting and forgetting practice I had many different experiences. I had intense pain for a long time, so much so that I wept buckets while meditating. It went away. I kept falling asleep. It went away. I got distracted by my chattering monkey mind. It went away. 

It's easy to see that these were all attempts by my "ego" to fight against stilling the waters. 

 

I also had experiences where I saw visions. They went away. I had experiences where I was able to predict events before hand. It went away. And I had experiences where strangers would walk up to me and tell me that I was a "holy man". It went away. 

I am of the opinion that these last three phenomenon were also attempts by my "ego" to fight against stilling the waters. 

Wisdom, again in IMHO---but I think I'm right, should be the only thing that a Daoist should be pursuing. Everything else is at best a sideline (good health is a useful thing) and at worst a blind alley. 

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6 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

Good day guys. I am your fellow Daoist Jun Yu Xian. In this thread, I have an inquery.

 

This past few days I have experienced something while doing breathing exercises. I felt some heat in my abdomen.

 

I don't know if it was the Dan Tian. It felt quite hot like a bowl of soup directly flowed inside my abdomen. I also felt some tingly feeling on my lower back.

 

I continued to remember the feeling. My mind was just observing the feeling and no other thoughts are running in my mind.

 

I felt so light like I emotions were shut off from my senses.

 

It felt so good then I tried my made up qi gong movements (TBH just random movements cause I dont really know Qi Gong). Vibrations were being manipulated from my shoulders to arms to hands and palms to my fingers. 

 

The feeling that travelled through my hands were synonimous to vibrations from a portable massager set in low.

 

That is cool. Suddenly My skin felt numb especially the muscles on my head and upper chest.

 

Please explain to me what is this feeling supposed to be.

 

The only place where I cant transmit vibration is on my lower half because I am on a sitting meditation position.

 

There is a qigong book from the 1950s in China - the title slips me at the moment - and it is a memoir of a young man who had the same experience as you. He just went deeper with it. I had that same experience when I was 29 and then I fasted for a week while meditating the whole time - this opened up the qi channels and so I got to the Yuan Qi enlightenment experience. This is described in the book Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality - it's a free read online.

So at first you get heat in the lower tan tien and then the kidneys will feel boiling hot. Then the thymus gland of the heart will get hot. Finally the pineal gland will get real hot. Then the real Yuan Qi energy will kick in - after you have a full body yin qi experience. This training is also well described in the book "Tao and Longevity" by master Nan, Huai-chin. Both those books are free pdfs online.

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Tao-Longevity-by-Huai-Chin-Nan.pdf

So this is a brief concise book - that goes over the physiological changes before the Yuan Qi is activated. I did not read this book until AFTER I had the experiences and it matched it perfectly.

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Taoist-Yoga-Alchemy-and-Immortality.pdf

So with the Taoist Yoga book - the idea is that you want to leverage that strong heat in the lower tan tien as a sign of your jing energy built up. Consider it like a "rocket booster" that is then cast off as you go out into space and now you will be charged by space directly - the qi energy.

So the jing is like amplitude while the qi is based on frequency of the energy - that is why fasting and more meditation then turns that strong heat into qi - as long as you follow that books instruction. Also you need to keep doing standing meditation - I have the details in my free pdf below in my signature.

So I did not know this info when I first did my training - so I did not keep building up the Yuan Qi. Instead I had some very powerful experiences and then I "fell out of enlightenment" as I stopped training. Then I still had a permanent third eye opening due to http://springforestqigong.com sending me energy. So then I did free healing - and I still do free healing but it is just "yin qi" energy. So I still have a permanent taste of yuan qi in the third eye but I don't build it up. I can still build it up if I choose to do more serious meditation as I do sometimes.

 

So to get to that stage then you need to get to chapter six of the Taoist Yoga book.

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On 27/09/2019 at 9:09 PM, voidisyinyang said:

 

There is a qigong book from the 1950s in China - the title slips me at the moment - and it is a memoir of a young man who had the same experience as you. He just went deeper with it. I had that same experience when I was 29 and then I fasted for a week while meditating the whole time - this opened up the qi channels and so I got to the Yuan Qi enlightenment experience. This is described in the book Taoist Yoga: alchemy and immortality - it's a free read online.

So at first you get heat in the lower tan tien and then the kidneys will feel boiling hot. Then the thymus gland of the heart will get hot. Finally the pineal gland will get real hot. Then the real Yuan Qi energy will kick in - after you have a full body yin qi experience. This training is also well described in the book "Tao and Longevity" by master Nan, Huai-chin. Both those books are free pdfs online.

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Tao-Longevity-by-Huai-Chin-Nan.pdf

So this is a brief concise book - that goes over the physiological changes before the Yuan Qi is activated. I did not read this book until AFTER I had the experiences and it matched it perfectly.

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Taoist-Yoga-Alchemy-and-Immortality.pdf

So with the Taoist Yoga book - the idea is that you want to leverage that strong heat in the lower tan tien as a sign of your jing energy built up. Consider it like a "rocket booster" that is then cast off as you go out into space and now you will be charged by space directly - the qi energy.

So the jing is like amplitude while the qi is based on frequency of the energy - that is why fasting and more meditation then turns that strong heat into qi - as long as you follow that books instruction. Also you need to keep doing standing meditation - I have the details in my free pdf below in my signature.

So I did not know this info when I first did my training - so I did not keep building up the Yuan Qi. Instead I had some very powerful experiences and then I "fell out of enlightenment" as I stopped training. Then I still had a permanent third eye opening due to http://springforestqigong.com sending me energy. So then I did free healing - and I still do free healing but it is just "yin qi" energy. So I still have a permanent taste of yuan qi in the third eye but I don't build it up. I can still build it up if I choose to do more serious meditation as I do sometimes.

 

So to get to that stage then you need to get to chapter six of the Taoist Yoga book.

Thanks for the sources. They will be helpful for me.

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On 27/09/2019 at 2:40 PM, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

It felt quite hot like a bowl of soup directly flowed inside my abdomen. I also felt some tingly feeling on my lower back.

BTW the hot feeling was not from below my navel. But on the upper abdomen. Meanwhile, below my navel I only felt compression and a bit of stabbing feeling. It is really hard to breathe down there, so I am skeptical.

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15 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

Thanks for the sources. They will be helpful for me.

Just some advice. Leave that book alone. It isn't useful at best and harmful at worst.

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39 minutes ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

Which one senior?

Taoist yoga.

By the way it is better to talk with your teacher about your experience and not random people on the internet.

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2 hours ago, Zork said:

Taoist yoga.

By the way it is better to talk with your teacher about your experience and not random people on the internet.

Thing is, most of us don't have access to a quality Qi gong teacher.  So the internet with a grain of salt and our common sense is the best we can do.  It helps if the person giving advice has a history, so we can gauge there length of time studying and sincerity.

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7 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

I do not have a teacher though. 

Without a specific practice and no teacher you are in danger of experiencing qi deviations.

13 hours ago, thelerner said:

Thing is, most of us don't have access to a quality Qi gong teacher.  So the internet with a grain of salt and our common sense is the best we can do.  It helps if the person giving advice has a history, so we can gauge there length of time studying and sincerity.

As you can see for yourself the OP's case is different than yours. I refuse to group you together.

He is experimenting.

You are following DVDs and books.

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2 hours ago, Zork said:

Without a specific practice and no teacher you are in danger of experiencing qi deviations.

As you can see for yourself the OP's case is different than yours. I refuse to group you together.

He is experimenting.

You are following DVDs and books.

Not only that but there are several good teachers who do teach online, such as Terry Dunn and John Dolic.

 

The problem is, even with that option, people don’t feel that they should pay to learn these skills for health or neigong and yet think the best techniques for good health or martial power should be free. 

 

Cry me a river.

 

Edit: not directed at thelerner or OP. Just in general for users here trying to find free stuff that some of us sacrifice a lot to get.

Edited by Earl Grey
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3 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Not only that but there are several good teachers who do teach online, such as Terry Dunn and John Dolic.

 

The problem is, even with that option, people don’t feel that they should pay to learn these skills for health or neigong and yet think the best techniques for good health or martial power should be free. 

 

Cry me a river.

 

Edit: not directed at thelerner or OP. Just in general for users here trying to find free stuff that some of us sacrifice a lot to get.

I am still a university student so only I could rely on free materials or other peoples experience. 

 

Good things are not free so maybe I should wait till I get a decent job after graduation.

 

5 hours ago, Zork said:

Without a specific practice and no teacher you are in danger of experiencing qi deviations.

Anyways thanks for the advice. BTW please explain what a Qi deviation is. I am quite new to this, seniors. :)

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10 minutes ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

I am still a university student so only I could rely on free materials or other peoples experience. 

 

Good things are not free so maybe I should wait till I get a decent job after graduation.

 

Anyways thanks for the advice. BTW please explain what a Qi deviation is. I am quite new to this, seniors. :)

 

Free doesn’t always mean money. Sincerity, effort, and character can help you. What country are you in and what do you hope to accomplish with your prospective internal practices?

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4 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

I am still a university student so only I could rely on free materials or other peoples experience. 

 

Good things are not free so maybe I should wait till I get a decent job after graduation.

There are some free things on the internet concerning qigong but they are aimed at healing.

What are your aims?

4 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

BTW please explain what a Qi deviation is.

Look at this thread

 

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In my younger days and during the college years I'd learn by traveling to seminars.  Not as good as live teachers with regular classes and feedback, but a step up from books and CDs. 

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2 minutes ago, thelerner said:

In my younger days and during the college years I'd learn by traveling to seminars.  Not as good as live teachers with regular classes and feedback, but a step up from books and CDs. 

 

Depending on where OP is from I am trying to find the closest seminar, affordable resources, or generous teacher, hence my questions.

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On 9/29/2019 at 8:48 AM, Zork said:

Taoist yoga.

By the way it is better to talk with your teacher about your experience and not random people on the internet.

yes I was told NOT to read the TAoist Yoga book - on this forum - and it set my practice back by ten years!! So think about it - someone is telling you NOT to read a free book? Kind of sketchy advice isn't it?

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9 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

 

Anyways thanks for the advice. BTW please explain what a Qi deviation is. I am quite new to this, seniors. :)

If someone wants to understand "qi deviations" then read Professor Nancy Chen's book "Breathing Spaces"

https://cup.columbia.edu/book/breathing-spaces/9780231128049

That book analyzes the Communist political context of that label "qi deviation." Also realize that qigong practitioners in China are targeted for organ harvest stealing for the organ donation market. So labeling someone with "qi deviation" can be leveraged into a nice profit.

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22 hours ago, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

I do not have a teacher though. 

And yet Zork is a random person on the internet! Hilarious. His advice? Do NOT read the FREE books. Just do whatever HE says. Oh let the mind control begin! this website is hilarious.

 

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I did notice the Huai Chin Nan book seems a bit more down to earth, and cleaner translated, than Taoist Yoga. Both make some really neat points, and provide valuable perspective. Do not treat them as how-to instructions. I see them more as interesting biographical discussions of how the process went for them.

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1 hour ago, Nintendao said:

I did notice the Huai Chin Nan book seems a bit more down to earth, and cleaner translated, than Taoist Yoga. Both make some really neat points, and provide valuable perspective. Do not treat them as how-to instructions. I see them more as interesting biographical discussions of how the process went for them.

I've posted a good summary on the Taoist Yoga book - https://icbi.weebly.com/zhao-bichenrsquos-taoist-yoga.html

Zhao Bichen’s - The Secrets of Cultivation of Essential Nature and Eternal Life - An Appraisal of Taoist Yoga

I think how the book should be "treated" is pretty self-explanatory. You read the book and the information in there speaks for itself.

The teacher did state to also do standing active exercises - which he does NOT state in the book. So yes there is some contextual information lacking. You can find that on his lineage websites. The above link should give some clues -there's a couple other websites of his lineage.

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Posted (edited)

Welcome @OverseerFeatheredImmortal, If you're still looking for Cinnabar Field (丹田) may I invite you to read my PPD articles on logography. It's a purely literal approach to how these symbolic names are spelled, rather than attempting to describe the actual experiences associated with them. The hope being that added context will deepen the overall intuitive capacity when seeking these structures internally. I'm still developing the idea, but with any luck someone will also find it useful!

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48451-lg02-丹田-dantian-till-a-field-and-dig-a-well/

 

Edited by Nintendao
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On 9/27/2019 at 2:40 AM, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

Good day guys. I am your fellow Daoist Jun Yu Xian. In this thread, I have an inquery.

 

This past few days I have experienced something while doing breathing exercises. I felt some heat in my abdomen.

 

I don't know if it was the Dan Tian. It felt quite hot like a bowl of soup directly flowed inside my abdomen. I also felt some tingly feeling on my lower back.

 

I continued to remember the feeling. My mind was just observing the feeling and no other thoughts are running in my mind.

 

I felt so light like I emotions were shut off from my senses.

 

It felt so good then I tried my made up qi gong movements (TBH just random movements cause I dont really know Qi Gong). Vibrations were being manipulated from my shoulders to arms to hands and palms to my fingers. 

 

The feeling that travelled through my hands were synonimous to vibrations from a portable massager set in low.

 

That is cool. Suddenly My skin felt numb especially the muscles on my head and upper chest.

 

Please explain to me what is this feeling supposed to be.

 

The only place where I cant transmit vibration is on my lower half because I am on a sitting meditation position.

 

On 9/28/2019 at 6:21 PM, OverseerFeatheredImmortal said:

BTW the hot feeling was not from below my navel. But on the upper abdomen. Meanwhile, below my navel I only felt compression and a bit of stabbing feeling. It is really hard to breathe down there, so I am skeptical.

 

rather common if you get a cinnabar field to be full of Qi.  It will overflow to other areas and movement will encourage that.

 

The 'cinnabar field' means dan tian, there are three; but the Lower Dan Tian is usually the most mean... but from your latter post, it sounds like the middle dan tian had the overflowing sensation.   But it's not clear if that was full due to a full LDT or not.  In the end, you were able to harness Qi fullness to others.  That is a good trick to realize.   

 

Think this simple idea:  Energy will flow from areas of high pressure to lower pressure.  So if a dan tian has a higher pressure / fullness of Qi, it can release to lower pressure areas.   When I learned Taiji, I was taught this but was like... yea, I already understand this from Medical Qigong directing of Qi in my body or another.

 

The backside heat felt was likely Mingmen energy.

 

If your sitting in mediation position, then your legs are locking/blocking the energy from going down the legs.  ergo, it only has a few paths to follow:  Up front, up middle, up back/spine.   There is actually more of one can do it, to follow the various meridians.

 

I would see if you feel it in the perineum, AND whether you are locking the huiyin (root chakra) to further encourage the flow upward. 

 

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