kyoji

Reconciling the idea of already being complete v.s. the work needed to become whole.

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Posted (edited)

The general addiction to willfulness and yet the pull to survival and competition within DNA / physical - and the ever radiant light essence that is ever spotless and unborn.

 

Practice is the work of loss and openness. Need - no need.

Need/grasping is loss - it is futures and pasts 

 

Like the Chinese finger prison - you are free in not pulling - the frequencies of willfulness - a sound of strain and tension.

 

It is possible to create in present - it is participation in happening - without the incredible dissipation of pasts and futures.

 

It is possible to create in no-memory   -   non-inertia  -  evolving spontaneity.

 

Tremendous effort is required - though it is not.

 

The gross physical contains extraordinary inertia - you have impulses of intense pack animal instincts, emit unheard sounds that spark rivalries and pecking order reactions - much that we contribute to culture is actually deep seated DNA based instinctive reactionary mechanics.

 

The gross physical bodies are impossibly intricate beautiful precious gifts - ladened with spitfire and cauldrons and the finest of raiment in light.

Yet we are turned away from vast resources and indulge and dissipate in identified politics and petty planes of morbidity.

 

over and over again man must bang the square peg into the round hole from ten thousand different perspectives  -  (practice lures us away and wanders us to the essence of light) - bang bang we pound again and now become arrogant and cynical or drown in an hypnosis of anesthetic love or self hate.

 

The Light beckons - and we pull less identified - the music 🎵 fills the light - we have begun practice in earnest.

 

The inclination is to improve the perspective - it is the correct mistake - a tendency to buy the bleach - “clear” ourselves, our channels, our chakras - as though we know what to do. We stay with our identity and wish to repair it on a false plane based in pasts and futures - where no repair can take place because it has never existed. It is simply cross tones of contortion.

 

Why does it take such tremendous effort to meditate for 18 hours - one hour ? the pull to turn away

Conceptually it is simple - and in fact it takes no effort - requires no effort.

The subtle bodies must percolate - and those teachings of the lower planes - our religious heritages - the trappings of fear vested in futures and pasts - must fall away.

 

Practice is not religion - no religion is practice.

 

Sometimes it seems the entire world should take magic mushrooms - to see feel know touch Presence in non- competition - intense grounded Beingness.

The Abiding Awakened State is much like this - the incredible vitality and for some energies that are far beyond consideration.

 

The critical mass point of the falling away of identified tensions - the shift point - Awakening - Abiding Awakening - Settled Awakening - Enlightening Awakening - is immediately available - but a critical mass of relinquish has had to accumulate and in Grace Light will shower forth suddenly and without mistake.

Edited by Spotless
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On June 22, 2019 at 5:44 AM, dwai said:

 

The assumption is that there is an "other" Self that you need to discover, apart from your "current self". The other Self is awesome, wonderful, peaceful, blissful and enlightened. The current self is ridiculous, pathetic, weak, always suffering, etc etc :)

 

There is no other self. There is only the Self. Liberation is not anywhere else but right here. Liberation is not in some other time, but right now. Right here, right now. That should be the mantra.

 

If someone smokes pot and realizes this (and it is possible to do so, but the realization doesn't last as the old habits of the acquired mind come back after the "high" is gone), they will eventually have to turn on to a more wholesome path. I personally know one who went down this path and eventually stopped all that and now leads a wholesome life, does selfless service etc. 

 

Eckhart Tolle is perfectly capable of pointing the seeker to that which he/she is seeking. I think what is being missed is that not every one is born with the same karma. Some have had enough "doing" in their previous lifetime(s), that just a little nudge is sufficient. Others have to work a bit hard to clean up that acquired mind. 

 

All the work is only for cleaning up the mind. That is all. Realization is already there. Clean up the mind, realize what you truly are.  Simple formula. And it works too...if one is sincere in their seeking, and has an empty cup.

 

Many people get irritated, some even incensed upon reading what I just wrote. But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...

:) 

 

 

It's not that I disagree with what you have to say.. but I just feel telling people this from the get go generally doesn't help get them anywhere closer to REALizing this as much as it does help them conceptualize it... do we really need to give modern people another concept they have no experiential basis for ? 

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12 hours ago, kyoji said:

It's not that I disagree with what you have to say.. but I just feel telling people this from the get go generally doesn't help get them anywhere closer to REALizing this as much as it does help them conceptualize it... do we really need to give modern people another concept they have no experiential basis for ? 

The rub lies in the fact that this knowledge can be directly experienced. 

 

It is as real as our experiences are. If we can use our sensory perceptions and our mind and intellect, we can directly experience/realize this truth. 

 

Thats why this is called the “Direct Path”. Modem people have both the ability to use their minds/intellects and the able to use their sensory perceptions. Hence they are adequately equipped to learn this. 

 

Only two conditions are required - 

 

  1. a strong desire to know 
  2. An empty cup, as the saying goes 
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On 23/06/2019 at 7:32 PM, kyoji said:

It's not that I disagree with what you have to say.. but I just feel telling people this from the get go generally doesn't help get them anywhere closer to REALizing this as much as it does help them conceptualize it... do we really need to give modern people another concept they have no experiential basis for ? 

 

Yes and this is "the rub".   This is the flaw in the simply explanations some like to give.

For instance J Krishnamurti went around the world giving lectures to packed halls of sometimes extremely smart people, but at the end of his life he said "nobody understood me".   

And he's not the only one ... if you have been reading the lifestories of teachers closely, he's not the only one.

So ... how can it be so ?
Well one answer is "don't ask" just f-ing do it now.   And if the student gets in the right place, fine.

Another answer is .... that the connection between this world and that world, between individual and universal, is indeed extremely extremely subtle ... but it is there.   And the fact that humans wake up in this world is indeed because there is something that must be learnt here for us to then move on.

And these connections and evolutions and so on ... are very subtle indeed.
Once upon a time humans did know more about the connections ... but it seems to have died a death.

On this planet the light lasts only so long, then what is left is a memory.

Until another man comes, who ... for whatever f-ing reason, finds the light again and explodes into truth and ... then he leaves and once again a few leave with him, the there is only a memory, and then ... nothing.

 

Haven't you suffered enough ?
( Not yet, they say )

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/22/2019 at 2:44 AM, dwai said:

 

The assumption is that there is an "other" Self that you need to discover, apart from your "current self". The other Self is awesome, wonderful, peaceful, blissful and enlightened. The current self is ridiculous, pathetic, weak, always suffering, etc etc :)

 

There is no other self. There is only the Self. Liberation is not anywhere else but right here. Liberation is not in some other time, but right now. Right here, right now. That should be the mantra.

 

If someone smokes pot and realizes this (and it is possible to do so, but the realization doesn't last as the old habits of the acquired mind come back after the "high" is gone), they will eventually have to turn on to a more wholesome path. I personally know one who went down this path and eventually stopped all that and now leads a wholesome life, does selfless service etc. 

 

Eckhart Tolle is perfectly capable of pointing the seeker to that which he/she is seeking. I think what is being missed is that not every one is born with the same karma. Some have had enough "doing" in their previous lifetime(s), that just a little nudge is sufficient. Others have to work a bit hard to clean up that acquired mind. 

 

All the work is only for cleaning up the mind. That is all. Realization is already there. Clean up the mind, realize what you truly are.  Simple formula. And it works too...if one is sincere in their seeking, and has an empty cup.

 

Many people get irritated, some even incensed upon reading what I just wrote. But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...

:) 

 

 

'But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...'

The above statements are true within this plane of existence.

My question: is this truth working for those who practice it? If it hinders them from attempting to reach for the next higher rung of the ladder, in their personal evolution?

Edited by mrpasserby
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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2019 at 7:27 PM, kyoji said:

then why are the stories of so many great masters filled with years upon years of hardship and sacrifice in order to achieve great attainments? 

My posted words are not sufficient to address all of your questions, so I picked this one. 

In my experience: initiations (sometimes observed by others as external suffering) are part of a process of obtaining for are selves, the unseen world functionality that will serve us in the next higher faze of our evolution.

In my experience: 'the caterpillar becomes a butterfly' totally simple to the casual observer, and y a totally complex activity to the continually initiating creator who is *(suffering 'exerting himself', to pay the price) to learn the unseen world complexities of creation for himself. 

*siddhis:anima-minimization 

A definition: In Shaivism, siddhi are defined as "Extraordinary powers of the soul, developed through consistent meditation and often uncomfortable and grueling tapas, or awakened naturally through spiritual maturity and yogic sādhanā." 

https://www.google.com/search?ei=lHISXaTVOZSDtQb5oq2oBw&q=siddhis+1+anima+def&oq=siddhis+1+anima+def&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i299j33i160.8949.55402..55969...0.0..0.264.2663.0j19j1......0....1j2..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i131j0i3j0i67j0i10i3j0i10j0i22i10i30j0i13j0i13i30j33i10j33i22i29i30.H8LQ2w9nSPw

Edited by mrpasserby

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5 hours ago, mrpasserby said:

'But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...'

The above statements are true within this plane of existence.

My question: is this truth working for those who practice it? If it hinders them from attempting to reach for the next higher rung of the ladder, in their personal evolution?

There IS no higher rung of the ladder, imho. This knowledge and it’s realization is the ultimate knowledge. There is no further evolution. It results in “prapancha upashamam” or freedom from the bondage of the  Universe/samsara.

 

After realizing this truth, the sage is free to be as it pleases him/her.  

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Am I already it, or must I find it, practice to manufacture and make it and then maintain it?

 

For me lately, neither.

 

I find i disconnect with even the notion that 'i am already it, or it must be sought' as this thought lends to the notion, that there is a thingness that is achieved, or that we recognize that we are.

 

Local awareness/presence is not something I own, or feel that i am, or that i can find, or achieve, or maintain, either through effort, or endeavor. 

 

Presence, awareness seem revelatory, not manufactured.  While I seem to be in it, i seem not to be of it.  Nor is there a separation.

 

When mind is quiet, presence is.  When mind is noisy, presence is.  Sleeping, waking, seeking, resting...

 

what is, is what is... presence/awareness is

what is there to do, achieve, alter, fix, cajole, encounter, reveal?

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The most simple way to look at this supposed "quandary" is to regard the "completion" as an "undoing" rather than a "doing". 

 

In other words, the process of such "work" is more about unlearning the social conditioning which tells you that you are a young/old white/black/brown male/female and so forth and so on, and particularly in regards to your paricular relationship to the evil patriarchy/matriarchy/church/state/group/tribe/race/etc. 

 

In this way, "the return" is enacted by going back the way you came, i.e. through the release of enforced ideas that were imposed upon you.  Along such a path, the learning experience itself will naturally deposit the inherently physical reference which disavows the purely conceptual substitutions that a person has mistaken for life itself, by way of a living experience of actual "truth".

 

The "here and now", or "moment by moment" experience of wonder and mystery and the undivided whole of oneness resulting from the mysteriously interdependent network of all things actually has nothing to do with preconceived notions arranged by particular dividing lines of conflict or definitions of identity.   Such notions are simply the ongoing and continuous denial of momentary experience by way of enforced perceptual limitations enacted by conceptual frameworks.

 

What you might call "already complete" awareness or "gnosis" or so forth is an inherently non-conceptual type of experience because it is apprehending the world in a way that precedes a need for language, words, ideas, and so forth - but is rather based on raw sensory experience and the whole which is greater than the sum of those parts.  People often refer to this kind of experience as "seeing things as they are", which is of course not necessarily the same as what you are told they are, or what you may wish them to be.

 

An online discussion forum is an even more abstract removal from the social interaction found at the local level, due to lack of body language - but really there is no requirement for social interaction and communication in terms of the momentary experience of awareness.  In terms of the "human experience", it most certainly is - but that is another matter, and something that is already at the forefront and probably does not need any more particular emphasis in anyone's life.  Even those who shun society are being driven by it, and it is no less influential in such cases where people are driven only from the opposing side of its magnetism.

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On 10/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, ऋषि said:

The most simple way to look at this supposed "quandary" is to regard the "completion" as an "undoing" rather than a "doing". 

 

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Oxherding_pictures,_No._8.jpg

Whip, rope, person, and Ox -
all merge in No Thing.
This heaven is so vast,
no message can stain it.
How may a snowflake exist
in a raging fire?
Here are the footprints of
the Ancestors.

 

 

Oxherding_pictures,_No._9.jpg

Too many steps have been taken
returning to the root and the source.
Better to have been blind and deaf
from the beginning!
Dwelling in one's true abode,
unconcerned with and without -
The river flows tranquilly on
and the flowers are red.

 

 

Oxherding_pictures,_No._10.jpg

Barefooted and naked of breast,
I mingle with the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust-laden,
and I am ever blissful.
I use no magic to extend my life;
Now, before me, the dead trees
become alive.

 

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3 hours ago, ऋषि said:

Oxherding_pictures,_No._8.jpg

Whip, rope, person, and Ox -
all merge in No Thing.
This heaven is so vast,
no message can stain it.
How may a snowflake exist
in a raging fire?
Here are the footprints of
the Ancestors.

 

 

Oxherding_pictures,_No._9.jpg

Too many steps have been taken
returning to the root and the source.
Better to have been blind and deaf
from the beginning!
Dwelling in one's true abode,
unconcerned with and without -
The river flows tranquilly on
and the flowers are red.

 

 

Oxherding_pictures,_No._10.jpg

Barefooted and naked of breast,
I mingle with the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust-laden,
and I am ever blissful.
I use no magic to extend my life;
Now, before me, the dead trees
become alive.

 

<3

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I would be considered elderly at my age entitled to some discounts at various food chains. Something that has stuck in my head for a long time is this, the more I work on eliminating my character defects the easier it gets and the less discomfort I experience I am not operating from fear as much as I did when I was younger. I find spiritual readings to be repetitive now. There is just so many ways a thing can be said, and then it becomes repetitive. For example, I am a practitioner of martial arts and have been these last 20 years. It took me all this time to see the connection between them all. There is a common thread running through them. There is only so much you can do with two arms and two legs. The styles are different, and there is one that a person best relates too, but the outcome is pretty generic...defeat incoming force or redirect it. I don't feel complete (whatever that is) but I do recognize I have grown into age appropriate thinking and behavior. 

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