welkin

Who is Loneman Pai?

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, rideforever said:

And what about the qi that rises and falls with the breath ?   Is that energy ?

 

Breathing happens as a result of a polarity, and creates other polarities in the body that also cause movements.

 

The movement is energy.

 

The substances inhaled (air, dust, whatever they may be) are just substances riding on that energy.

 

So the "breath" as in the actual volume of physical air inhaled, is not the movement that causes the inhalation. It just the physical substances that were moved BY that movement.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People get confused because they see character for "Qi" used is "氣" which suggest steam from cooking rice, and usually translated as "breath".

 

But look in philosophical Taoism. They are not using that "breath" or "steam" character for "Qi".

 

They are using "炁", which is the radical for "nothing" over the radical for fire. This usually means energy we cannot see, or that is not connected to an actual substance.

 

Chinese medical books often DO mean "breath" when they use that character. They are studying organs, and first organ in "organ clock" (12 branches) is Lung. Means same thing as breathing does in western medicine.

 

Philosophical and Cultivation texts are not using that character, and many time do NOT mean "breath". 

 

They are using older character and discussing a different thing.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, rideforever said:

planet for instance is a physical thing and is substance.

 

Its a whole group of people and researchers being delusional.

 

There is no such thing as physical plane or substance.

 

Chair you sit on is qi.

The whole planet is qi.

Everything is qi. Physical matter is also a qi.

Sun is qi, stars is qi.

Qi can change into anything, it can be stable as mountain, or erupting as a volcano. It can be in form of metal or in form of air, it can be invisible or it can be sound.

 

Idea that there is physical plane and then there is qi, is just coming from people who have zero experience on qi planes.

 

Our planet alone has millions of qi planes where sixtillions of lifeforms made of pure qi live.

And our planet, no our galaxy as whole is just one of 67.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 + galaxies out there.

Each planet is more highly populatef than ours.

 

Humans believe they are master race but that's a massive delusion.

 

Even a grandmaster like myself after 10 years of daily training possessing multiple siddhis, thousands years of experience, I was obliterated on higher Qi Plane of earth by highly intelligent demonic overlords that were probably living there for 100.000 years. It was hopeless, and I don't meet anyone strong on this physical plane. People like chang are as rare as dragon ballz.

 

Ofc when you sit in kindergarden your views are limited. Our physical plane is just a tip of an iceberg with minimal value inside.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

In the tai chi classics it states that there are three levels a person goes through on the path of energy cultivation.  They are:

1. feeling energy

2, controlling energy

3. knowing energy

 

The third level starts after around thirty years of hard work (assuming an advanced teacher, which is rare), where you start getting a rudimentary handle on the subject.

 

So, the good news is I've been doing it for over thirty years now.  The bad news for you guys is that knowing energy doesn't mean knowing it in words that mean anything to anyone who doesn't know energy, if you know what I mean.  I hope I'm not confusing anyone ... yet.

 

7 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

 

Qi is not movement because Qi is life force

 

Chi is not movement, that is true, but it isn't a force either :)  Chi moves but most of what moves in the world is not chi.   Chi isn't life force, it's life energy.  Kinetic energy can create physical force, and electrical energy can create both electrical force and magnetic force.  Chi is like electrical energy, but it is not electrical energy.  It can create a force as well.

 

7 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

How is "force" not movement?

 

It just isn't, never was, never will be.  It's in the definition!

 

7 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

No movement = no Qi.

 

No movement = no energy.

 

Wrong!  A field energy can produce a mechanical force, a mechanical force can move a physical object, and a physical object contains kinetic energy (not to be confused with the potential energy of a boulder on a cliff top about to fall on the unsuspecting horse rider below), but only bozos confuse kinetic energy with a field energy. 

Edited by Starjumper
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Wrong!  A field energy can produce a mechanical force

 

All you guys are funny.

 

That was in response my statements: No movement = no Qi, and No movement = no energy.

 

Field energy is moving energy.

 

It is making that field by movement.

 

No movement = no field energy.

 

"Potential" energy isn't really "energy". It is just "possible" energy. Not currently happening, just "possible". 

 

So okay - this is a silly conversation, yes.

 

I'm assuming from the discussion and people admissions that they didn't study these things really. 

 

Just bullshitting each other and their selves. And that is fun too.

 

But I will leave this fun for now, as no time to continue it. I will check later.

 

If someone sees and wants to know more about what I mention - can contact me in message here on DBs.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Starjumper said:

In the tai chi classics it states that there are three levels a person goes through on the path of energy cultivation.  They are:

1. feeling energy

2, controlling energy

3. knowing energy

 

The third level starts after around thirty years of hard work (assuming an advanced teacher, which is rare), where you start getting a rudimentary handle on the subject.

 

So, the good news is I've been doing it for over thirty years now.  The bad news for you guys is that knowing energy doesn't mean knowing it in words that mean anything to anyone who doesn't know energy, if you know what I mean.  I hope I'm not confusing anyone ... yet.

 

 

Chi is not movement, that is true, but it isn't a force either :)  Chi moves but most of what moves in the world is not chi.   Chi isn't life force, it's life energy.  Kinetic energy can create physical force, and electrical energy can create both electrical force and magnetic force.  Chi is like electrical energy, but it is not electrical energy.  It can create a force as well.

 

 

It just isn't, never was, never will be.  It's in the definition!

 

 

Wrong!  A field energy can produce a mechanical force, a mechanical force can move a physical object, and a physical object contains kinetic energy (not to be confused with the potential energy of a boulder on a cliff top about to fall on the unsuspecting horse rider below), but only bozos confuse kinetic energy with a field energy. 

 

Thank you for the correction, it's somewhat aligned to what I was trying to say, but clearly I made a mess of it. a good insight from that post! much respect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

All you guys are funny.

 

That was in response my statements: No movement = no Qi, and No movement = no energy.

 

Field energy is moving energy.

 

It is making that field by movement.

 

No movement = no field energy.

 

"Potential" energy isn't really "energy". It is just "possible" energy. Not currently happening, just "possible". 

 

So okay - this is a silly conversation, yes.

 

I'm assuming from the discussion and people admissions that they didn't study these things really. 

 

Just bullshitting each other and their selves. And that is fun too.

 

But I will leave this fun for now, as no time to continue it. I will check later.

 

If someone sees and wants to know more about what I mention - can contact me in message here on DBs.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

I'm afraid you are the only one here doing that

 

#1 You've repeatedly labelled JC, SOTG and anyone else who has been mentioned that can do "paranormal" things a fraud, despite having no actual evidence of it

 

#2 You've literally backed yourself into several corners throughout this thread, and every time you do, you just ignore the posts like they never existed.

 

#3 You claim to have over 50 years experience, yet you show understanding and outlook of a beginner based on the tunnel vision displayed. Are all the others being dishonest, or are you? I know which is more likely

 

#4 The double standards, hypocrisy and appeals to authority are literally indicative that you do not actually know what you are talking about.

 

The list could go on and on....

 

I hope you do stop at this stage, because unlike every other thread you where you actually post almost near passive aggressive comments pertaining to things you don't agree with, someone actually called you on it this time. And the results are as such

 

For someone with 50 years of experience, the lack of respect you show for other people who are serious, devoted practitioners is somewhat surprising.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Field energy is moving energy.

 

It is making that field by movement.

 

What is moving?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

That was in response my statements: No movement = no Qi, and No movement = no energy.

 

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no idea what anybody is saying.

 

GSMasterBlaster : well big up you doing lots of work, I hope you will do something useful with it, you maybe be big and strong and kill other unconscious monkeys, but in the end I am not sure it is worth a lot.

 

10 years, 30 years, 200 years .... intelligence is a shortcut to so many years of work btw.  Having intelligent teachers.

 

Oh yeah, the chi.   Well ... the chi I am interested in is the vital force that rises into the body from the dantien.   This is me, and I can work with this to cultivate myself.

 

There are many other things in the universe but whether I would call them chi, maybe not.   It is easy to say everything is energy, everything  is consciousnes or everything is chi, but it really doesn't mean anything at all.   There are many forms of energy, consciousness and what not.   Only through careful study can you do something useful.

 

For instance ... by breathing into the dantien you can awaken the dantien.  This is done through "breathing into the dantien" meaning you consciously sense the chi in that area as you breathe, which activates the energetic body there, like a energetic presence of you that can be established in that area.   This takes time.   If done sensitively it can then "awaken", meaning that it is not just a energetic presence, but it starts to "think" or be "intelligent", it starts to respond to things and "know".

 

One very important thing to know is that using the various energy techniques you can establish new balls of energy everywhere around your body, creating new energy structures of all sorts, wrapping, rotating, spiralling, and whatever.  But this is not correct practice, it is not spiritual.   

Because your soul already has a structure that you can bring out into the light and discover what you are actually made of.  For instance the heart is in the chest.

 

Many people appear to be creating "false dantiens" in the belly with all sorts of multi coloured energy shapes and attaching it to Alpha Centauri and the Big Dipper and the Giant Turtle's Testicles.

But a "false dantien" is not something you should really be doing, because you already have a Dantien, the real one.

 

And those teachers who are teaching 500 levels of power-ups are most certainly those who have been very creative in the amount of false energy structures they create all over their body, which may give them siddhis and a lazer-shlong, but ... this is not spiritual.   A lazer-shlong made of chi is not a spiritual thing, it is more a testament to your ingenuity and lack of contact with your soul.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

 

I originally thought this too, but I am unsure now

 

energy is required to apply force which then initiates movement

 

If qi is movement, as per the suggestion, then where is the force that initiates it?

 

and what about the energy required to to apply that force?

 

that model just doesn't make any sense to me :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

If qi is movement, as per the suggestion, then where is the force that initiates it?

 

POLARITY.

 

Also:

 

"scalar fields often describe the potential energy associated with a particular force"

 

"Potential" is just "possible" but not "happening".

 

If the field is created by an energy, it is caused by movement.

 

Energy is movement in a polarity, and Substance is static unless moved by energy.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

I hope you do stop at this stage, because unlike every other thread you where you actually post almost near passive aggressive comments pertaining to things you don't agree with, someone actually called you on it this time. And the results are as such

 

Yes, people who never studied any of this have a hard time understanding it.

 

Look at the response to showing Zhou Dunyi TajiTu - Nuthin'.

 

Because apparently none of you knows what this is.

 

I do not expect any to suddenly know without ever studying.

 

And your egos are no problem.

 

So I just put the things here in case anyone else reading, or if it lights a spark, recognized, maybe someone will actually study something some day.

 

I will try to follow discussion, but becoming too busy just now.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your diagram is very easy to understand :

0 > 1 > 2 > 5 > 10,000

0 : absence

1 : presence

2 : yin yang pair

5 : further details of the yin yang pair showing Wuxing phases

10,000 : all the rest of the shit in the universe arising from the 5

 

What does it show about qi ?   I have no idea.

 

What it shows is a general picture of the arising of the universe from the void, but it is a general picture and not one that is very useful for a human being.   

A human being if he wishes to return to 0 then he needs to understand how HE arises from the 0, meaning he needs to understand how 0>1>2>5 arises within his own personal structure.

Which brings us to the Dantien because it is the Dantien that is the gate between 0 and 1, for a human being.

And using this information and feeling the Dantien then you can personally ... do some spiritual work.

 

For instance you can embody the Wuxing that flows out the Dantien.

The result of this is that you come out of your insanity and actually fix yourself in a part of the river of Reality, and so you aren't lost in your endless diarrhea thoughts.

That is a first step.

The with the stability of Wuxing embodied, then you can return back through the Dantien first to 1, by awakening your Dantien, and then finally by returning through it to 0.

 

There you are, that is the entire theory of Taoism right there.

And you won't find better.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, rideforever said:

What does it show about qi ?   I have no idea.

 

Taiji philosophy is a big part of Taoism. Worth studying.

 

This diagram shows many things about the arising and workings of polarity.

 

In the center of the Taiji you see the One (little circle) have, show, or display Polarity, symbolized by Fire and Water trigrams.

 

Fire and Water chosen because showing "true" Yang and "true" Yin.

 

Wu Xing is a calendar-observation system derived from the visible planets.

 

Western systems more use 7, and 7 is the 5 planets plus "luminaries" of Sun and Moon.

 

Wu Xing is thus "10 Stems", which is planet-named days of week, and calendar.

 

Notice in diagram Zhou write "Yang is movement" and "Yin is stasis".

 

This is the secret that YinYang, the Taiji, is not "reversible" or "reflexive". 

 

That is why the right side of your body isn't turning into the left side.

 

And it is how there can be stable "matter" at all.

 

There is much more in this diagram. I encourage everyone to study Taoism for real and see.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

 

No, that's not it, you idiot.  It's more like this:

 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, rideforever said:

For instance ... by breathing into the dantien you can awaken the dantien.  This is done through "breathing into the dantien" meaning you consciously sense the chi in that area as you breathe, which activates the energetic body there, like a energetic presence of you that can be established in that area.   This takes time.   If done sensitively it can then "awaken", meaning that it is not just a energetic presence, but it starts to "think" or be "intelligent", it starts to respond to things and "know".

 

One very important thing to know is that using the various energy techniques you can establish new balls of energy everywhere around your body, creating new energy structures of all sorts, wrapping, rotating, spiralling, and whatever.  But this is not correct practice, it is not spiritual.   

Because your soul already has a structure that you can bring out into the light and discover what you are actually made of.  For instance the heart is in the chest.

 

Many people appear to be creating "false dantiens" in the belly with all sorts of multi coloured energy shapes and attaching it to Alpha Centauri and the Big Dipper and the Giant Turtle's Testicles.

But a "false dantien" is not something you should really be doing, because you already have a Dantien, the real one.

 

And those teachers who are teaching 500 levels of power-ups are most certainly those who have been very creative in the amount of false energy structures they create all over their body, which may give them siddhis and a lazer-shlong, but ... this is not spiritual.   A lazer-shlong made of chi is not a spiritual thing, it is more a testament to your ingenuity and lack of contact with your soul.

 

 

How do you know that the chi starts to think and know, if done sensitively. It just means that you are more sensitive to the energies and are allowing it to flow. I don't think it became any more intelligent than it already was. And i don't think it's about intelligence, unless there's another definition attached to the word.

 

What does it mean to be spiritual? Couldn't a person who meditates everyday, and somehow forcefully attained energy abilities, be more spiritual than a person trying to be 'spiritual' through their bias way they learn to flow energy?

 

There is no right and wrong.

 

I've attained certain degree of control of my energy, and can do multiple things with it. As a matter a fact, i've suppressed any further usage of it until i feel ready.

 

The idea of right and wrong, do this don't do that are all dogmas. Dogmas that yes you should listen to a certain degree. But to say this is good bad, right wrong, spiritual non spiritual. That just creates a ceiling to what you your actual spirituality :). An inner spirit doesn't want to be confined by rules, ideas, perspectives they never chose to live by, because it doesn't make sense. These are all created through mind. And unless that mind has explained the actual complexities of why do this or that through its actual inner consciousness, then these ideas of what's right and wrong are useless.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

POLARITY.

 

Also:

 

"scalar fields often describe the potential energy associated with a particular force"

 

"Potential" is just "possible" but not "happening".

 

If the field is created by an energy, it is caused by movement.

 

Energy is movement in a polarity, and Substance is static unless moved by energy.

 

VonKrankenhaus, can you describe what you are trying to point out? Is it that chi doesn't exist? is it that it's useless? Right now, all i see is a debate of what chi is. But what is the purpose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, welkin said:

VonKrankenhaus, can you describe what you are trying to point out?

 

Taoism, YinYang, Qi, Wu Xing, Bagua, I Ching - just basics elements of traditional Taiji philosophy.

 

And how these relate to modern science.

 

I studied these. They are at the basis level of discussion of Qi in the way people here want to find - but nobody here has studied these.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, welkin said:

Is it that chi doesn't exist?

 

Qi exists.

 

But it is not a substance or thing like many seem to think.

 

It is movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

In the body, in outer space, wherever.

 

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, welkin said:

What does it mean to be spiritual?

 

No one seems to be able to answer that question.  Pilgrim also asked it.  You can find the answer in my book  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

but nobody here has studied these.

 

  are you including yourself in this?  Just ribbing.

 

9 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

It is movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

In the body, in outer space, wherever.

 

Ya, but what is it exactly which is moving?  No one answered that one when I asked earlier.

 

Quote

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

I don't see how that applies, when true knowledge is based on FEELING!  Show me the way.

 

 

Edited by Starjumper
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Ya, but what is it exactly which is moving?  No one answered that one when I asked earlier.

 

Quote

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

I don't see how that applies, when true knowledge is based on FEELING!  Show me the way.

 

The substance that moves in polarities will vary. 

 

In electric polarity, it is electrons moving.

 

In thermodynamics it is heat moving.

 

Between Up and Down - MANY things are moving.

 

So this depends on the polarity.

 

And the movement is ALL Qi. 

 

Qi is that movement, not the substances that may be moving in the polarity causing the Qi.

 

YinYang is the study of Polarity. I study this very much for a long time. Very much.

 

Polarity is causing Qi. No polarity = no movement. 

 

In the body we have many different polarities happening. Chinese medicine, and Qigong, is the study of these and how they function.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

No one seems to be able to answer that question.  Pilgrim also asked it.  You can find the answer in my book  :)

 

If i took a swing, i think i could get pretty close. :)

 

But i'm not experienced enough or have the credentials to make any difference right now. When does it come out!?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites