Ah, it's the same old...

[AugustLeo]

.

[Starjumper]

Enlightenment is easier to speak about in terms of what it is not - it is not bliss though it must include bliss.

 

Exactly, must include bliss, but bliss levels are way different in each of the two types of enlightenment (the big experience or the mind conditioning.).

 

Nope - who is present to experience enlightenment?

It is not an experience as there is no one there to experience anything.

It is not a state as that would imply that it exludes some other state.

 

The part of you that goes away is only the words and concepts of you, your awareness of existence becomes even more keen as the words are dropped. Great awareness also includes a great awareness of yourself, perceiving yourself directly, a new frame of reference.

 

With all due respect, SJ sounds as if he is reading answers from a book or reciting answers provided by a teacher. I don't mean to be offensive but I wonder how deeply SJ has inquired into these questions for himself? Lin sounds as if he is actively working toward answering these questions for himself and has real substance (or void... ).

 

I agree, I feel Lin is the expert here, he's obviously been studying this subject a lot longer than I have and is much better aquainted with the best descriptions, which he can interpret for us. I myself have read some about it and seen some good descriptions but I haven't read that much. What I've got is some experience I could relate, my path having been a very fast path due to being with a very powerful master. Scarey recklessly fast, some would say, with the highest rate of enlightenment, some would say. Image having such a powerful energy healer doing energy work on you each week in order to speed your trip through that door.

 

 

If you are saying that enlightenment is when a spirit vanishes into the void then that's cheating, sorry, can't allow that definition. We are concerning our selves with the types of enlightenment while living and how to arrive there. I know I'm in trouble now, at least with all the people that only live in their heads.

 

I wasn't saying that at all. Did you even read the story of the Buddha I posted? The story has its context. The context I was putting out was if you want to know enlightenment, go and practice and stop talking about it.

 

Yes I think I read it =) actually I was just kidding, I think that the type of enlightenment mentioned above should be included as a third category, so now we have 1. the experience, 2. the mental condition, and this new one, which fits somewhere between religious knowledge and third category, ultimate dissolution.

 

I think the thing that contributes to the confusion is the way people are mixing up the different types and not designating which one they are referring to.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Buddy]

"What I've got is some experience I could relate, my path having been a very fast path due to being with a very powerful master. Scarey recklessly fast, some would say, with the highest rate of enlightenment, some would say."

 

Other than your cohort, who else would say?

[SiliconValley]

Hey Buddy, nice to see you back after a while ....

[Buddy]

Thanks.

[Starjumper]

What I've got is some experience I could relate, my path having been a very fast path due to being with a very powerful master. Scarey recklessly fast, some would say, with the highest rate of enlightenment, some would say. Image having such a powerful energy healer doing energy work on you each week in order to speed your trip through that door.

 

What I've got is some experience I could relate, my path having been a very fast path due to being with a very powerful master. Scarey recklessly fast, some would say, with the highest rate of enlightenment, some would say.

 

You see, I was right, I said someone would say it and old friendly Buddy said it right away! Special Zircon mind control technique.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

[Buddy]

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Good thread but everyone talking about Enlightenment when no one in this forum has been Enlightened so how can we describe it?

 

[Stigweard]

Good thread but everyone talking about Enlightenment when no one in this forum has been Enlightened so how can we describe it?

 

 

 

OK I'll bite just for the fun of it

 

Prove that I am not enlightened.

[Taomeow]

Good thread but everyone talking about Enlightenment when no one in this forum has been Enlightened so how can we describe it?

 

I wasn't and I was.

[Starjumper]

Good thread but everyone talking about Enlightenment when no one in this forum has been Enlightened so how can we describe it?

 

I've been enlightened, but I'm not enlightened now.

[minkus]

Good thread but everyone talking about Enlightenment when no one in this forum has been Enlightened so how can we describe it?

 

 

Even if you are enlightend you cannot describe it to someone who isnt because it will yust be that .. a description of enlightenment and not the direct experience itself :/

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Hmmm Enlightenment, let me guess "Kunlun Bliss", for 25 dollars?? JUST KIDDING PEOPLE!!!!

 

Seriously though, do you think you would be here on this forum if you was enlightened??? LOL

[steve]

Hmmm Enlightenment, let me guess "Kunlun Bliss", for 25 dollars?? JUST KIDDING PEOPLE!!!!

 

Seriously though, do you think you would be here on this forum if you was enlightened??? LOL

Why not?

Is there something more important to do?

[Stigweard]

Why not?

Is there something more important to do?

 

SKFOCL = Slaps knee falls off chair laughing

Edited March 1, 2008 by Stigweard

[三江源]

.

Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[林愛偉]

 

elightened people dont use the internet!!!!!!!!!!

 

they just, um........... they, well, they....um... they CERTAINLY dont do normal things. heh heh. What a ridiculous thought.

 

Enlightened people just, well....... they eat a tiny bit of rice occasionally and smile a lot, and that's IT.

 

And It's really great for them.

 

 

Quotes Stigweard, "SKFOCL = Slaps knee falls off chair laughing"

[Taomeow]

Yes, they are all like Mr. Myagi. I guess the pop image of an enlightened person, like all pop images, has to be put together out of a prefabricated set of platitudes so as to appeal to the maximal number of consumers. If he/she eats a little rice and smiles a lot, that's a good start. Gotta throw in demonstrable miracles from time to time, with an enigmatic koan on the side. Gotta show up at the exact time when the protagonist is being bothered by some belligerent scum or other and teach them all a lesson. And so on.

 

After two experiences of enlightenment, I'm after endarkenment. Enlightenment is yet another male/yang value of unbalanced, male/yang tilted times, just like gas-burning vehicles and warfare with explosives and upward-aspiring fire religions and favoring upper-neocortical fire-light ideation in general. No one is interested in that where I belong. The I Ching tells me this to the question about enlightenment:

"It flares up, dies down, is thrown away."

[Starjumper]

Once my teacher asked me: "What good is enlightenment, it doesn't make you any more friends, it doesn't make you any happier, and it doesn't make you any more money?"

 

I didn't answer him. But here's an answer for you bums: It makes you hyperaware of all the idiots out there in Taoland and the hopelessness of dealing with them. That's in the more advanced stages. It makes you really appreciate the non idiots though.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Wayfarer64]

Exactly, once my teacher asked me: "What good is enlightenment, it doesn't make you any more friends, any happier, or any more money?"

 

I didn't answer him. But here's an answer for you bums: It makes you hyperaware of all the idiots out there in Taoland and the hopelessness of dealing with them. That's in the more advanced stages.

 

 

This strikes me as the most unlikely scenerio...In the search for friends, $ or happiness I doubt I'd find enlightenment... What is it that you seek?

 

I'd guess just "by virtue" of yr effort's time and direction you may not value that which could enlighten- giving up stuff like- friends, $, and the illusion of happiness may not be goals you seek... sobeit...

 

peace

[mYTHmAKER]

Once my teacher asked me: "What good is enlightenment, it doesn't make you any more friends, it doesn't make you any happier, and it doesn't make you any more money?"

 

I didn't answer him. But here's an answer for you bums: It makes you hyperaware of all the idiots out there in Taoland and the hopelessness of dealing with them. That's in the more advanced stages. It makes you really appreciate the non idiots though.

 

When one is enlightened there are no idiots.

I can't wait

[Taomeow]

When one is enlightened there are no idiots.

I can't wait

It's true, there's no more idiots, but instead you see things much more painful than that in that light.

 

I would advise everyone who can help it to avoid enlightenment like the plague. You remember what Hamlet feared about "what dreams may come?" You have to fear "what realities may come" a lot more, I can assure you. Dreams are never as intense as realities. Not even close.

 

Lunatic asylums are full of people who have been enlightened -- and scorched by that light beyond repair.

 

I don't expect to be believed.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Taomeow

[Wayfarer64]

I agree with ya Taomeow...

 

I assume when some minds are challanged by some of the more astounding elements of becoming "enlightened" human beings ...such effects as awakened consciousness... will predict that some minds will snap...

 

 

but why avoid idiots -aren't we more amusing than the dull sage?

[Todd]

Taomeow,

 

I am confused. You mention two experiences of enlightenment. Would you go into more detail? Its just a word, so I am interested in what inspires you to use it.

 

It might help me to understand where you are coming from when you speak of the realities revealed by enlightenment. Are you referring to your ongoing experience post-enlightenment, or an aspect of the experience itself?

 

...

 

Some of us thrive on intensity. And it is what we are after all. Its not like we can escape it, even if we don't pay attention. The attention appears to transform as well.