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The Dao De Jing: A Qigong Interpretation?

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1 hour ago, dawei said:

 

In a very small nutshell, Yang say it is "Self-Inner Observation".    

Thanks, was always curious about it. So its not really a breathing?

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This is a page from the 2nd chapter.

He seems very sincere and is focused on living from the lower centres Solar Plexus (true subconscious mind) and presumably the Dantien.
He doesn't know how to awaken the higher centres (Heart and Head) and so discards them for the sake of peace, which is fine but then he rationalises this attitude as the Natural Way and Forgiveness which is not correct.   Those areas remain disharmonious simply because you are not awakening them.  It is not Natural to discard anything.  Nor is "forgiveness" anything like a compete representation of the power of the awakened Heart.  

 

In fact Tao is not neutrality at all.
Yin and Yang do not cancel each other out to be hermaphrodite.
Yin must be Yin and strong.
Yang must be Yang and strong.
Then Yin meets Yang and Bang.
Bang is life.

He seems to be identified with the traditional suppressive elements of oriental culture, which keep everyone calm but do not produce much Yuan.   As humans are disharmonious we can understand that some suppression can be kept whilst other areas cultivated, but it is regrettable and must give way to complete expression of Tao in the long run.
 

t1.jpg

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1 hour ago, dawei said:

 

In a very small nutshell, Yang say it is "Self-Inner Observation".   The five regulations are important but regulating the mind is paramount to discard ego and not have any plan of progress, and to avoid emotional disturbance.   So there is a physiological preparation in Yang's method.  

 

sorry, incomplete.   There is a physiological and and a psychological preparation/part. 

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35 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Thanks, was always curious about it. So its not really a breathing?

 

Sorry again.. my small nutshell was sharing too small a view more about the basis of the journey.   So I'll share more on the practice.

 

He talks of breathing methods as:

1. Normal

2. Normal abdominal

3. Reverse abdominal

4. EB

5. Skin - Marrow

6. Five gates

7. Spiritual

 

Under EB, he says this allows one to store Qi in the real LDT.   It seems less a technique then the state of mind to foster the creation of an spiritual embryo as he continues to talk about methods #2,3,7; the last one he claims you better buy his next book to understand!  LOL

 

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:03 PM, Taoist Texts said:

Thanks, was always curious about it. So its not really a breathing?

It is breathing. So much has been misunderstood about EB. Some equate it with reverse breathing, but that is not correct. EB happens when your breathing becomes very subtle and very relaxed and hardly noticable. If you were to hold a feather under your nose, it would not move. EB happens naturally and is not forced. Having done natural breathing and reverse breathing as a foundation is necessary in order for the EB to be deep and centered. 

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I personally go further to say that embryonic breathing is a state in which you don't breathe, and don't need to. We could say that cellular respiration is happening, but any inhale and exhale is not...in my view, it's not a matter of being so subtle so as to be unnoticeable. Experienced it a few times. JMV... I know that some historical writings about embryonic breathing treat it as a method of breathing.

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14 minutes ago, Wondo said:

It is breathing. So much has been misunderstood about EB. Some equate it with reverse breathing, but that is not correct. EB happens when your breathing becomes very subtle and very relaxed and hardly noticable. If you were to hold a feather under your nose, it would not move. EB happens naturally and is not forced. Having done natural breathing and reverse breathing as a foundation is necessary in order for the EB to be deep and centered. 

Others say it is when you stop breathing and only breathe internally. This is not entirely true. There is still breathing but it is hardly noticable. Personally, I have found that to stumble on EB requires that one have been familiar with deep diaphramatic breathing and reverse breathing in order to enter in to EB. The previous two seems to open up the possibility of EB. It was easy for me, but then again I have been practicing formal meditation for over 25 years. 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

I personally go further to say that embryonic breathing is a state in which you don't breathe, and don't need to. We could say that cellular respiration is happening, but any inhale and exhale is not...in my view, it's not a matter of being so subtle so as to be unnoticeable. Experienced it a few times. JMV... I know that some historical writings about embryonic breathing treat it as a method of breathing.

True, but you are still breathing. The breathing is being done in the dantien, not so much the lungs. It is so extremely subtle that you do not notice it. You should not be even paying attention to the breathing in this stage because EB is on the side of non doing and if you are breathing in any special way or trying not to breathe, both of those ways are still doing something. When doing meditation and the mind is completely still, the body will also be completely still and then there is no awareness of breathing. Things just kind of take over themselves. Some people have thought EB to be the practice of stopping the breath. There are some methods that talk of stopping the breath but this is an intermediate method of the Lesser Celestial Circuit where you pause at the muddy pellet before going down the renmai. EB is an advanced level and the "stopping" referred to here has to do with stopping your focus of breathing, you just let it happen naturally. Noticing that the breath has stopped or become so unnoticeable immediately starts the process again. Just like when you are in deep samhadi and then you take notice of it, just that noticing is the resuming of thought. And if you have noticed yourself having "stopped" the breath, that noticing resumes the breathing. This is not a bad thing at all, it means your breathing in your meditation is very good and your mind has settled. 

Edited by Wondo

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Just presenting an alternative view for the consideration of other readers, not wanting to be argumentative...but I can't agree that any form of breathing happens during it. Also, something else happens during it, which if a person spoke of it, it would verify to me that we've experienced the same thing.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

Just presenting an alternative view for the consideration of other readers, not wanting to be argumentative...but I can't agree that any form of breathing happens during it. Also, something else happens during it, which if a person spoke of it, it would verify to me that we've experienced the same thing.

Not argumentaive at all. I think your statements are very useful. What I have experienced may be different than what you have experienced. There are times when it appears that breathing has stopped, but then when I notice it, it resumes. If I stay in an empty state for long periods who knows how long it may have "stopped." I will not share what else I have experienced during those times, but  suffice it to say the feeling encompasses the whole body and let's just say that clarity is far reaching. 

Edited by Wondo

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4 minutes ago, Wondo said:

Not argumentaive at all. I think your statements are very useful. What I have experienced may be different than what you have experienced. There are times when it appears that breathing has stopped, but then when I notice it, it resumes. If I stay in an empty state for long periods who knows how long it may have "stopped." I will not share what else I have experienced during those times, but  suffice it to say the feeling encompasses the whole body and let's just say that clarity is far reaching. 

 

Okay, from what you've said I think we've had the same experience.

What makes you think breathing is still happening unnoticeably in the LDT, if during this state you're not noticing the breathing/it seems like it has stopped?

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On 3/6/2019 at 4:07 PM, Aetherous said:

 

Okay, from what you've said I think we've had the same experience.

What makes you think breathing is still happening unnoticeably in the LDT, if during this state you're not noticing the breathing/it seems like it has stopped?

I guess from the conventional way of looking at it, one may say it has stopped, but everything I have been taught and have read says that it is still happening.The lungs are not so much involved anymore but the LDT is. It is actually happening between the cinnabar field and the yellow court. Very deep. The whole body is breathing. Don’t know how else to explain it. If we are at a loss for words on how to explain, our experiences may actually be similar, just that language is being the barrier here. 

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On 2019-03-06 at 9:29 PM, Aetherous said:

I personally go further to say that embryonic breathing is a state in which you don't breathe, and don't need to. We could say that cellular respiration is happening, but any inhale and exhale is not...

A theory that is easy to test. 

If so, when you come out of it you will not feel "air hunger", that is, no urgent need to breathe and no deep breaths. 

 

If you feel air hunger, you have just dampened the physiological drive to breathe. 

 

Personally, I always feel a small (smaller than expected though) urge to breathe more after that happens. Not in the same magnitude as when I voluntary hold my breath though. 

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5 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

A theory that is easy to test. 

If so, when you come out of it you will not feel "air hunger", that is, no urgent need to breathe and no deep breaths. 

 

If you feel air hunger, you have just dampened the physiological drive to breathe. 

 

Personally, I always feel a small (smaller than expected though) urge to breathe more after that happens. Not in the same magnitude as when I voluntary hold my breath though. 


That's what was unique about this experience for me, there's zero "air hunger"...for a long period of time. Really, what would cause me to breathe again was fear that my body wasn't breathing.

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