Starjumper

Mo Pai - Instructions & Warnings

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3 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

Some things I wanted to touch on.

 

Jim and Kosta were John's legitimate students, until John was removed as head of the school, and all westerners were expelled by the Mo Pai elders.

 

That is fine, MegaMind. I believe you.

 

However,

 

"Online student of legitimate student" =/= "Legitimate student" =/= "Formal disciple" =/= "Lineage holder" =/= "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Also,

 

"Online student of legitimate student" < "Legitimate student" < "Formal disciple" < "Lineage holder" < "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Anybody who has spent any time in the milieu which John Chang occupies understands this.

 

If you do not, either you are an outsider, and therefore ignorant by default; or else you have reason to know better, and are being willfully ignorant for some reason. Why you choose to persist in ignorance beyond me, but it is your choice.

 

Again, I thank you for making it clear that neither McMillan nor Danaos were formally inducted into the Mopai in Indonesia, and that therefore not you nor any other online so-called "Mopai" enthusiast on the English-speaking internet is, either.

 

It is good to have clarity on this issue.

 

No further questions at this time. 

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6 minutes ago, Walker said:

"Online student of legitimate student" < "Legitimate student" < "Formal disciple" < "Lineage holder" < "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Its so obvious that neither Jim or Kostas were formally enrolled into mopai as they never passed the introductory 2 levels.

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46 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

 

 

 

You really believe this?  Did they go to a random hotel room, strip naked and have doctors with metal detectors and anal probes standing by to verify the truth of it?  NO.  So how can you believe that if it doesn't fit your fairy tale requirements for everything else?  

 

Easily faked, notice the guy over on the right pulling the string?  Notice how Jim is pushing away and yet the cardboard box falls forward?  Notice how useless such things, even if real, are in real world spiritual scenarios?

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31 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

That is fine, MegaMind. I believe you.

 

However,

 

"Online student of legitimate student" =/= "Legitimate student" =/= "Formal disciple" =/= "Lineage holder" =/= "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Also,

 

"Online student of legitimate student" < "Legitimate student" < "Formal disciple" < "Lineage holder" < "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Anybody who has spent any time in the milieu which John Chang occupies understands this.

 

If you do not, either you are an outsider, and therefore ignorant by default; or else you have reason to know better, and are being willfully ignorant for some reason. Why you choose to persist in ignorance beyond me, but it is your choice.

 

Again, I thank you for making it clear that neither McMillan nor Danaos were formally inducted into the Mopai in Indonesia, and that therefore not you nor any other online so-called "Mopai" enthusiast on the English-speaking internet is, either.

 

It is good to have clarity on this issue.

 

No further questions at this time. 

 

"Online student of legitimate student"

 

Many in our group lived close to Jim and trained in person.

 

 

 

 

 

"neither McMillan nor Danaos were formally inducted into the Mopai in Indonesia"

 

Both Jim and Kosta were legimate students of John.

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28 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Its so obvious that neither Jim or Kostas were formally enrolled into mopai as they never passed the introductory 2 levels.

 

Jim's next step would have been level 3, had the school not been closed to westerners.

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9 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

You really believe this?  Did they go to a random hotel room, strip naked and have doctors with metal detectors and anal probes standing by to verify the truth of it?  NO.  So how can you believe that if it doesn't fit your fairy tale requirements for everything else?  

 

Easily faked, notice the guy over on the right pulling the string?  Notice how Jim is pushing away and yet the cardboard box falls forward?  Notice how useless such things, even if real, are in real world spiritual scenarios?

 

Falling forward was intentional and was the expected result.

 

According to Jim he went to the close by restroom while John continued to project his yin field, and recreated the effect alone in the restroom.

 

There were no scientists or medical doctors present to rule out fraud, so we do not consider this good evidence, but I presented it because GSmaster asked about it.

Edited by MegaMind

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Just now, MegaMind said:

"Online student of legitimate student"

 

Many in our group lived close to Jim and trained in person.

 

I see.

 

Allow me to make a modification then. 

 

"Online student of legitimate student" =/= "Face to face student of legitimate student" =/= "Legitimate student" =/= "Formal disciple" =/= "Lineage holder" =/= "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

And,

 

"Online student of legitimate student" < "Face to face student of legitimate student" < "Legitimate student" < "Formal disciple" < "Lineage holder" < "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Ultimately this doesn't change much.

 

Nobody in the English-speaking, so-called "Mopai" online is a formal disciple or above.

 

Thank you for publicly clarifying the issue. 

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7 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

I see.

 

Allow me to make a modification then. 

 

"Online student of legitimate student" =/= "Face to face student of legitimate student" =/= "Legitimate student" =/= "Formal disciple" =/= "Lineage holder" =/= "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

And,

 

"Online student of legitimate student" < "Face to face student of legitimate student" < "Legitimate student" < "Formal disciple" < "Lineage holder" < "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Ultimately this doesn't change much.

 

Nobody in the English-speaking, so-called "Mopai" online is a formal disciple or above.

 

Thank you for publicly clarifying the issue. 

 

We merely preserve what John taught Jim and Kosta.

 

Both of them were formal students.

 

Jim did record this instruction on video and we preserve it without alteration.

 

If you were Chinese and in the Indonesian school the information would be the same.

Edited by MegaMind

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18 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

We merely preserve what John taught Jim and Kosta.

 

Both of them were formal students.

 

Jim did record this instruction on video and we preserve it without alteration.

 

If you were Chinese and in the Indonesian school the information would be the same.

 

I know, dear MegaMind, I know. 

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1 hour ago, MegaMind said:

formal students.

 

If you say so.

 

 

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6 hours ago, MegaMind said:

were formal students.

Getting 2 lessons = formal student in wimps. (Verified by scientists method of self development and cultivation)

 

(For comparison one of our internal arts schools, that teaches wide range of topics)


Level 1 Training in our school consists of 30 seminars each 6-8-10 training days / sessions / different exercises with Master. It would take atleast 4-5 years of daily practice to complete. 500$ per seminar thats atleast 15.000$. The amount of knowledge / information and practices to process is Equal to finishing Oxford University for 2-3 Higher degrees. Thats just foundation training for serious practices.

 

Level 1 is a foundation to become a formal student. Beginners are given equal chances. Thats the stage when you show your capability and develop self before being admitted in the Lineage formally.


I would expect the drop out rate of Level 1 really high. There might be 99 dropouts like Jim, for 1 guy who succeeds and proceeds to Level 2. One has to teach thousands of students to get few capable of learning deeper practice.

 

Sure, there will be dropouts after first few seminars, who will claim they are masters, and go teach around or write a broken rephrasing of my lectures.

Then there will be some idiots who find those dropouts and start learning from them from those scribbles and a bunch of misunderstandings.

I was trolling during the lectures, dropouts wrote this down as their Iq is not that great. The Idiots that learn from dropouts have even bigger issues with their mental capabilities.

----

The moral of story, you dont become someone's student by learning something from them.

There could be a lengthy 5-10-15 years timeframe, where you are allowed to train at whatever rate you do, and Master just casually monitors your progress until you drop out or he believes you are ready to proceed for formal training.

When you become formal student you wont have that much freedom.

 

The fact that they both dropped out for whatever reason, whenever JC had no interesting training them higher, or they were incapable, not reaching lvl 3 in 72 lvl system, where each level is about one exercise, says alot.

 

By same reasoning there could be "many students +- the level of Jim in Mopai school", but none of those students is formal student.

Edited by GSmaster
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1 hour ago, Walker said:

< "Legitimate student" < "Formal disciple" < "Lineage holder" < "Lineage holder empowered by his/her master to teach openly"

 

Students can be compared to statues, the work in progress.


The difference between people who took few classes, and those who are lineage holders (more like family) to the master.

 

Is heaven and earth difference.

 

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8 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

I have actually stored those Images in some remote place

 

Anyway this is all there is to western mopai

 

@Goku76 MM's little cult was very mad when these leaked out in public, as nothing makes them unique any longer

.................

.................

.................

 

 

jim's poses only betray that he was an amateur. Feet in horse stance not parallel. Hands too high, then at some other pic his hands are at a different height while doing the same exercise.

These pics show bad technique that could be fixed by a master within one or two months.

Are the WMPs trying to convince me that jim was ready to teach?

Judging from the pics he wasn't ready at all!

5 hours ago, MegaMind said:

If we had to the power to force people who claim it is a fraud, a hoax, etc, to actually practice and see the reality of it for themselves certainly we would, but that isn't something we can do.

Nice goalpost movement! But it disqualifies you in football. :lol:

Well it is a fraud 100% because you are not clear about what the expected results of the first levels of your practice are.

Obscure references to "feeling well, rejuvenated, sleeping well, having more energy" are head-signs for scamgong.

Sensing qi isn't unique to any practice really.

What do you expect them to see and why do you believe that it is unique in mopai and for example not happening in Kriya yoga?

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5 minutes ago, Zork said:

why do you believe that it is unique in mopai and for example not happening in Kriya yoga?

 

tsss they never discuss their practice results and effects in hostile environment, only on the closed forum

 

6 minutes ago, Zork said:

Sensing qi isn't unique to any practice really.

 

"After 6 months of 10 hours meditation I felt Heat, like real physical heat in my dantien - Wimp №0482"

 

Let me tell, you when I was in a weak shape, I held a girl's hand for a dozen of minutes, she felt intense burning over half of her body. And next few days she felt strong pain in the hand and on her thigh, place where my hand was.

 

When I did basic Qigong exercises with her she felt strong gust of winds flowing around her body.

 

That is someone who in my opinion is Level Zero, and she never ever practiced or learned a good stuff in her life.

 

3 hours ago, MegaMind said:

We want everyone to practice our dumb ass practice, and force them to do this, but will never talk publicly about what this practice given us and our own experiences

 

Lets do this. If someone out of wimps, copies, records the whole content of their closed forum / reddit. Upload it publicly or send to me in personal messages.

 

I will share with that one guy a portion of Level 1 Third Eye Training manual.

 

With some dedication and few years daily work it will make you capable of seeing things beyond physical plane with your eyes.

 

It is way more valuable than level 1/2 of mopai.

 

 

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(Mo Pai) Life is peaceful there
(Mo Pai) In the open air
(Mo Pai) Where the skies are blue

(Mo Pai) This is what we're gonna do 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, MegaMind said:

Falling forward was intentional and was the expected result.

 

That's crazy, because when I push someone (or myself) away, they/i do not go forward, we go 'away'.

 

Quote

According to Jim he went to the close by restroom while John continued to project his yin field, and recreated the effect alone in the restroom.

 

So Jim needed John's intervention?  :rolleyes: 

 

 Yin field?  :rolleyes:

Edited by Starjumper

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3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

So Jim needed John's intervention?  :rolleyes: 

 

 Yin field?  :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, what I don't get is this constant talk about scientific evidence when they don't have the experience or understanding of Yin let alone scientific documentation to explain Yin themselves...

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19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

 

Very colorful.. brings to mind the wind blowing away ash (trusting you will get the reference).

Roger that

 

19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

I'm going to point to a particular phrase from the above quote,  "people, who consider themselves practitioners," and directly ask a question. Was the implication these people are not "true practitioners" intended?

No

 

19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Apparently there are those who, for their own reasons, feel they do.

 

This is your assessment, and I can't help but note the similarities with this, and my father's assessments and proclamations when my sisters and I could finally speak of the abuses we had experienced at the hands of our mother.

Yes, all I have to offer is my assessment. Take it or leave it.

I've seen this dynamic play out with the Mo Pai folks many times.

Always the same. 

Interesting to equate this with childhood experiences of abuse.

I guess anything can become a touchstone for deep reactivity.

 

19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

There are wounds here, sometimes to the individuals posting and sometimes to people whose suffering was only witnessed. There is concern. Perhaps this can be filed under a "can't let go," but honestly who are any of us to tell another when it's "time to let go"? In my experience this happens in its own time, and simply can't be forced by the self or anyone else without creating further karmic seeds through repression. 

Very true

 

19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

I'm well aware of what I'm doing in this thread, are you?

Yes, wasting my time apparently.

I started, erased, and reworded my post a few times over the past few days... weeks? before finally posting.

I think it's like Taomeow pointed out to me once, I have this thing where I try to protect people.

I guess we each need to dance our little dance...

 

Here's mine

giphy.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Instead of arguing all the time on this forum members should do this 

1) train all the time and see if YOU  ever get like John Chang then have scientist test you and tell the world that we don't have to do dangerous practices for some power.

Or 

2) Beg and please a Indonesian student who is currently still practicing mo pai, probably by actually taking a trip to Indonesia and learn from him and then take pictures, and educate us all on the proper way to do it so we and especially GSmaster has nothing else to say about how fake the instructions are. 

Thank you. 

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29 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

train all the time and see if YOU  ever get like John Chang then have scientist test you and

 

One question, Why?

 

30 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

tell the world that we don't have to do dangerous practices

 

Again, Why?

 

31 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

Beg and please a Indonesian student

 

LoL, beggars practicing cultivation, how ambitious.

 

31 minutes ago, Goku76 said:

then take pictures, and educate us all on the proper way to do it

 

Why??

 

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Quote

No

 

I trust the implication wasn't your intent, and with my question had some vague reflections about your own comments in a different mopai thread abour how the placebo narrative implied something similar to what I asked in mind. 

 

Quote

Interesting to equate this with childhood experiences of abuse.

I guess anything can become a touchstone for deep reactivity.

 

You missed where I was pointing my friend. It was about my father's stifling of expression for the sake of his peace, and the myriad ways this particular dynamic plays out. It was much more about subtle patriarchal dominance (and the ways it is subconsciously self-propegated even in those of us who would generally decry the idea of the patriarchy) than the childhood abuse which became the "taboo topic."

 

What you did here is "minimizing," although again, I suspect this wasn't your actual intent. 

 

Quote

Yes, wasting my time apparently.

 

By the standard you set, yes.

 

Quote

I started, erased, and reworded my post a few times over the past few days... weeks? before finally posting.

 

I'm glad you finally allowed yourself expression.. 

 

Quote

I think it's like Taomeow pointed out to me once, I have this thing where I try to protect people.

 

Some of the people here are doing the same - in their own way. 

 

Quote

I guess we each need to dance our little dance...

 

Just so.

 

 

 

Edited by ilumairen
typo

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On 1/14/2020 at 11:09 AM, ilumairen said:

You missed where I was pointing my friend.

I did get your implication.

 

On 1/14/2020 at 11:09 AM, ilumairen said:

 

It was about my father's stifling of expression for the sake of his peace, and the myriad ways this particular dynamic plays out. It was much more about subtle patriarchal dominance (and the ways it is subconsciously self-propegated even in those of us who would generally decry the idea of the patriarchy) than the childhood abuse which became the "taboo topic."

My peace is not disturbed by this thread.

I have no interest in stifling expression.

Everything that can be said about Mo Pai, good and bad, has been rehashed on this website in innumerable threads over the past decade. None of that has changed the tenor and content of this debate one iota.

I'm simply suggesting that continued discussion of the topic with its adherents is futile.

They have amply demonstrated they are immune to rational thought and common sense when it comes to the topic.

 

 

On 1/14/2020 at 11:09 AM, ilumairen said:

What you did here is "minimizing," although again, I suspect this wasn't your actual intent. 

Minimizing is intended with respect to this specific subject matter.

If not for debate here, I wonder how much attention it gets anywhere?

We are keeping it alive with this very thread.

I believe the number of people who actually commit to the practice is quite small.

I do not think they are growing. 

Otherwise they would not continuously return here and maintain a presence despite the hostility.

This is probably the only place they have any success recruiting.

It does not take 55 pages to discuss the risks of their training fragments.

All it would take is a pinned FAQ and the occasional response to unsubstantiated claims.

 

That said, if y'all want to continue the discussion and arguments in perpetuity here, I sincerely hope it brings some sort of fruition.

I'm just raising the possibility that there may be more valuable and productive discussion to be had with the DaoBums than Mo Pai.

 

Peace

 

 

 

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