neti neti

Reality vs. Unreality

108 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, neti neti said:

 

Surely, our sense of accomplishment or attainments may seem to give us meaning and purpose. One could even argue that the living of life righteously is gain in and of itself.

 

But really, the boons of your labor were always yours. Gain or loss, the ebb and flow of this world comes and goes. You are the constant, already "there", wherever that is.

 

As one persistently concerns themselves with That, one discovers their concerns are miraculously taken care of. ;)

In other words, wherever (and whenever) you go, there you are! 

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Just now, dwai said:

In other words, wherever (and whenever) you go, there you are! 

 

Ha! Whaddya know? I was who I was when I got here! ^_^

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This is a very complex theme. 

First of all it always depends on the perspective you are talking from.

 

I wish someone would comment on it with such a precise, simple and clear way that gave no margin for assumptions or interpretations. 

 

From my own understanding and experience, when you wake up in the morning, the world appears. 

When you go to sleep at night, the world dissappears. Therefore, the world has no reality on its own apart from you.

If it is not self shining and self existing, depending always upon your awareness for it to exist, then it is 100% like a dream. 

 

We say dreams are unreal and illusory. 

So the world must also be considered unreal and illusory based on this assumption. 

Edited by Nothingness

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58 minutes ago, Nothingness said:

 

From my own understanding and experience, when you wake up in the morning, the world appears. 

When you go to sleep at night, the world dissappears. Therefore, the world has no reality on its own apart from you.

If it is not self shining and self existing, depending always upon your awareness for it to exist, then it is 100% like a dream. 

 

I think you might be placing too much importance on your self.  Reduce your ego!  You are not the center of my universe, I am.  (But I'm not the center of your universe.)

 

 

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10 hours ago, Nothingness said:

From my own understanding and experience, when you wake up in the morning, the world appears. 

When you go to sleep at night, the world dissappears. Therefore, the world has no reality on its own apart from you.

If it is not self shining and self existing, depending always upon your awareness for it to exist, then it is 100% like a dream.

 

So how do you view things that wake you while you sleep (like an alarm clock, siren, cat)?

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Hi wstein, very good question.

 

It is actually very hard to put this answer into words.

The world awaking me up is a 'knowledge' of the mind AFTER it has awaken up.

It is only after I (mind) wake up and become awareof the world that I can say that it was "the world" (siren, alarm etc) that has awoken me (mind) up.

Therefore it is only after I am aware of the world that the 'knowledge' that the world has awoken me, emerges.

This means that even this 'knowledge' needs my awareness to exist, so it (and the world) is still non-existing on its own. 

 

I'm not sure I managed to convey exactly what I wanted to say, it's easy to understand via direct experience though.

 

What we have to ask ourselves is: Has the mind really risen up in the morning? Let's not assume it has and let's investigate..

Edited by Nothingness
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On 20/08/2017 at 1:47 PM, Marblehead said:

I think you might be placing too much importance on your self.  Reduce your ego!  You are not the center of my universe, I am.  (But I'm not the center of your universe.)

 

 

Hello Marblehead.

 

Certainly, I am just a product of your imagination.

If so, then I must come from you, from your own projection. If I come from you, then there must be no real difference between us in essence, which would make me, as you, the center of your universe!

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17 minutes ago, Nothingness said:

Hi wstein, very good question.

 

It is actually very hard to put this answer into words.

The world awaking me up is a 'knowledge' of the mind AFTER it has awaken up.

It is only after I (mind) wake up and become awareof the world that I can say that it was "the world" (siren, alarm etc) that has awoken me (mind) up.

Therefore it is only after I am aware of the world that the 'knowledge' that the world has awoken me, emerges.

This means that even this 'knowledge' needs my awareness to exist, so it (and the world) is still non-existing on its own. 

 

I'm not sure I managed to convey exactly what I wanted to say, it's easy to understand via direct experience though.

 

What we have to ask ourselves is: Has the mind really risen up in the morning? Let's not assume it has and let's investigate..

 

I think you've done a very good job of explaining this point of view. I've read similar ones from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, but I do like how you've explained it too.

 

For me, I don't quite go this far, because to do so requires too much thought on my part to explain or understand it, and I try to avoid any trains of thought that require, well, too much thought. What you say may well be true and fits in with an experiential point of view, but it is, for me, on the extreme side.

 

For example, are we material or spiritual beings? For me both.

 

Were we ever born and will we ever die. Right now, maybe not, but in the end yes.

 

It can be nice going to the extremes for these points of view, but I'm more of a middle ground kind of guy.

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