Sign in to follow this  
Dioni

Chakra and Dan Tian

Recommended Posts

Hello,

I am new to taoist alchemy and i am trying to practice Mo Pai. I have read different books about these subjects but still there is something i don't have grasped.

Is there any relationship between Chakras and Dan Tians?

 

If i have understood correctly, Dan Tians are like containers of energy: the lower one is below the navel and is the bigger one that store Jing the most raw energy, then on the chest there is the middle one that refines the lower Jing into Qi and stores it; then between the eyebrows there is the upper dan tian that refines the lower Qi into Shen and stores it.

 

The Chakras are like wheels of energy. About their numer there are lot of ideas but we can say there are 7 major chakras along the spine and then lot of minor chakras all over the body like for example the ones on the palms of hands.

 

How these systems interact between each other?

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chakras aren't necessarily part of traditional systems of Daoism, but they are different things. Chakras are like gate points to the Tai Chi pole, while the dan tien are like vessels where qi is gathered and cultivated. They have different functions, although a few of them are in the same place. Dan tiens are also larger, if you're to think of the physical space they're supposed to occupy.

 

So you can access the Tai Chi pole via the chakras, which is why opening them is kind of dangerous if you're not ready. But you don't really "open" the dan tien because they aren't gates, they're vessels. You expand them so they can store more qi though, and you use them to cultivate qi.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we can say that the energy first pass through the Chakras and then arrive in the Dan Tiens where it is stored and processed?

 

Also lot of people like in Nei Kung they talk about storing lot of energy in the Dan Tiens, but after is stored that energy can be consumed so it is necessary to fill it up all the time these vessels?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The chakras have rooting in the spine but they are felt and are prominent near the skin too several inches deep along the front of the body.

The first chakra is predominant between the scrotum and anus in men and v and a in women. The crown chakra is top of head and primary interface is center of head.

 

The fluidity of energy movement throughout your body is radically affected by interference of mind and the frequencies that you fancy. This is also affected by congealed energetic structures of resistance again related to mind/fear. It could also be said that these blocking or restrictive energies are energetic structures that are "stuck in the past" - held in place by fear.

 

In the case of both Dantiens and chakras - they all pass on enhanced energies as one progresses or degenerates (becomes expansive - or - solidified in position - polarized - glued in place).

 

The lower chakras and dantiens should not be considered as in any way less than the upper ones - just as a tree requires roots and its strength is determined by them. Energies are constantly flowing up and down -

 

All of the energy conduits / channels / all of the bodies are fully electrified - everything is interacting.

 

The Dantiens can be view somewhat sponge like in that they saturate into surrounding tissue/energitics - while at the same time having central core. However words diminish the experience - it is much more of a magnetic field than wet sponge but both are somewhat accurate.

 

If you were to consider that a trillion trillion Milky Ways comprised what you inhabit - you would be considering only a small portion of the jewel you live within.

 

The dantiens will unfold far beyond simply distilleries. The channels of energies are far larger and more powerful than imaginable.

Not one ounce of inner engineering is required to unfold and grow these capacities and they are fully capable of achieving self sustaining energetic capacity that is effortless and without boundary.

 

Simple basic practice will bring all of this with it. Complex practice will only bring some of this and will require a great deal more time to fully embody.

Edited by Spotless
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we can say that the energy first pass through the Chakras and then arrive in the Dan Tiens where it is stored and processed?

 

Also lot of people like in Nei Kung they talk about storing lot of energy in the Dan Tiens, but after is stored that energy can be consumed so it is necessary to fill it up all the time these vessels?

 

No I wouldn't say that the energy has to pass through the chakras first. I think of Chakras and Dan tiens as two different systems within the body. Just like your bone structure and organs are two systems that both exist, but are different.

 

And the Dan Tiens automatically store energy (it's not something you have to focus on), but part of cultivation is increasing the amount they store and using them for more than what they'd normally do. Like when you get strong, you train your muscles to go beyond their normal limits and use. That's is why we do things to work with and utilize the dan tiens. But like your muscles, they still function without that training, they just aren't being used for an optimal function.

 

There are things you can do to deplete the energy stored in the dan tiens, but like how being an alcoholic destroys your liver, it's not something that happens without reason.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dan tians are like higher order space or pools in which chakras swim.   There are many more chakras than we can ever know but lets stick to the basic 7... or I will for now.

 

I would focus on the Tai Ji Pole as the root-to-crown , central channel , that passes through the 3 dan tians.

 

That dan tians are like containers of energy and chakras like wheels [spinning] of energy is a good picture. 

 

The mountain waters lead to the ocean... they are all connected... flowing downward...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the reply.

If i want charge the lower dantien, for example, i focus in the area 4 fingers below the navel. I bring my breath there and try to stick my attention in that area even if is not easy with the brain that wants all the attention..

Is it right how i do or do you have other way to charge the lower dantien? 

And by charging the lower dantien all the lower chakras (1 2 3) will get boosted then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having your intention there will help. Relaxing, proper breathing, several standing or seated positions, a variety of hand positions.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're into Mo Pai, www.neigongforum.com might match your interest.

Edited by Mudfoot
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I know these methods can recharge only postgraven qi, but not preheaven qi, this one can be regulated only with alchemy (so called ming methods), but it is kept in a secret. Methods for pastheaven qi can help you to feel better, healthier and less tired but they will not get you become younger.

Rfrds, Ilya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're into Mo Pai, www.neigongforum.com might match your interest.

I tried to register but the account is not allowed to write i don't know why lol

 

Having your intention there will help. Relaxing, proper breathing, several standing or seated positions, a variety of hand positions.

Can you advice any mudra for lower dantien?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IHC_LowerDT_M.jpg

 

IHC_LowerDT_F.jpg

 

 

 

"The Lower Dantian is the Dantian most familiar to martial artists and meditators, as it is the first place on which they are trained to focus their concentration. It is regarded as the center of physical strength and the source of stamina. Called the "hara" in Japanese, it is located in the lower abdomen, in the center of the triangle formed by drawing a line between the navel, Mingmen (lower back), and perineum. These three points form a pyramid facing downward. This configuration allows the Lower Dantian to gather the energy from the Earth."

http://www.ichikung.com/html/dantians.php

 

might help to explain the dan tain in more detail according to TCM and IMA practices 

it should  help to clear up what  a dan tian is in TCM and help the OP to answer the questioned 

posed 

 

"Is there any relationship between Chakras and Dan Tians"

 

Off hand I would say they describe 2 different ways of looking at something coming from different cultures.  Both ways seem to be very involved, I would wonder about the benefits of comparing them or trying to use one way to understand the other with out being well versed in either one...

Edited by windwalker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything has a base in physical. Concept of dantien is more physical than chakra. Chakra energizes and empowers certain thought currents in the bodies and leads to a certain expansion or retraction depending on the circumstances.

 

Dantien is the same, but more on physical side. It is a space for you to store ki. You can physically feel heaviness on it if chi has grown to such level. It is very much related to organs around it for storage. Every person is haphazardly doing microcosmic orbit and gathering yang little by little. If you have enough yang, diseases cannot touch you and you'll seemingly have unlimited energy.

 

Dantien though by itself cannot influence thought currents that easily. Lower dantien can store chi, purify it and mantain the body, No disease can come through once it is set right and so food and unrefined air are converted into jing which is life essence.

 

Middle dantien will energize you in a powerful way, It'll raise awareness of body, you'll have much more idea of what is going inside. This is called shen

 

finally the top dantien , it is the most strange because it'll lead to absolute conversion to wuji which is spiritual energy. This is the pinnacle of conversion a man can get. With enough cultivation you are able to see into other dimensions of life, lucid dreams will become commonplace, out of body experiences and all kinds of fantastic things happen. Even if you are not willing to get to this stage, years of martial cultivation will still lead you right here.

 

It is not in your hands to really put energy into dantien, what you do is observe the process and remove obstacles for energy to take its course and then protect energy from leakage through quietening your thoughts and needless actions.

 

please see if you gain enough awareness, the food that you eat goes through the same process and turns into yang even breath that you take is not free from this, it can be taken in and converted into energy.

 

Follow the breath, as it goes down into your stomach, watch where it goes. Do not try to direct it, just watch it happen. The more you watch this process, the more still you become, the more stillness is there in you, the easily you'll learn. Always use gnana mudra at first, it'll sharpen the function of mind and make it easier to see what is happening. All you need to do is to sit still and do nothing, if mind irritates you then let it but do not interact with it and focus on breathing. It'll take time and bit of effort but it'll become very easy afterwards.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kinzard said:

"If you have enough yang, diseases cannot touch you and you'll seemingly have unlimited energy."

 

 

Too much yang will create disease not protect you from it and yes, sometimes, it will seem like unlimited energy but, that is a bad sign, not a good one.  Why don't you read a lot more threads here about energy. 

Edited by Sramana
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sramana said:

 

You throw buzz phrases and words around haphazardly.  But, even a novice knows that out of balance yang is very bad news.

Too much yang will create disease not protect you from it and yes, sometimes, it will seem like unlimited energy but, that is a bad sign, not a good one.  Why don't you read a lot of threads here about energy before you start throwing around advice. 

I said enough yang, it's not a buzz word. Secondly I didn't say too much yang that is entirely your own fiction.

 

Don't make stupid assumptions about something that I haven't even said. Yin or yang both of them if out of balance will have negative consequences. where have I gave him a cultivation manual for pure yang cultivation or something? Yin is easier to cultivate than yang with some patience. Proper refined yang is harder to get into system. Please see, this is why you are not a super human.

 

What I speak of is from my own practice, What I do or not do is all up to me, you can give advice but I may ignore.

 

yang doesn't create disease, it'll over exert system and lead to feverishness, excess heat, anger, restlessness, aggression and even lack of sleep. Excess of it will chop down your life if not cooled down with yin. Then again, who even said you have cultivate excess of it? what is even the excess of it, do you even know? I know by first hand experience how it feels to be burned by it, I will not recommend going that path unless you are crazy or completely mentally detached and looking for self-realization.

 

I have seen excess of both yin and yang from first hand experiences which may traumatize you, I didn't start learning right when I joined this forum. I never gave any haphazard advice that I didn't myself follow.or seen my way through. Whether to take or not take is his choice, you have no such authority. 

 

also did you even fucking read? I basically told only him to breathe in and out. How the fuck is that going to create excess yang in matter of days? Please do teach how breathing in and out properly with awareness is dangerous for us. Buddhists must be bloody terrorists for spreading such ways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Kinzard said:

Please see, this is why you are not a super human.

 

58 minutes ago, Kinzard said:

 

also did you even fucking read? I basically told only him to breathe in and out. How the fuck is that going to create excess yang in matter of days? Please do teach how breathing in and out properly with awareness is dangerous for us. Buddhists must be bloody terrorists for spreading such ways. 

I just wanted to reveal you for what you are and I have.  I am through here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sramana said:

 

I just wanted to reveal you for what you are and I have.  I am through here.

All you have done is prove that you can't read or make coherent sense, Nothing else. It has been utterly pointless talking to you please go bother someone else.

 

end of discussion. I will not respond anymore unless you make some sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although the "chakra"  system  looks similar to Taoist dantians , for example, locations of  the lower dantian and upper dantian quite match the positions of  chakras, there are some big differences between them : 

 

1) There  is no jing-qi-Shen framework in the Indian system . In Taoist system  ,the  lower dantian  is said to be the place  where you cultivate jing, and at the upper dantian , a place you cultivate Shen.

And there are intricate relations between them, not just a change of position.

 

2) In the Indian system ,there are no yin and yang concepts  to  which   Taoism repeatedly  refers as something crucial  . For example, a spirit or consciousness , despite having got  powerful  3rd eye abilities   ,  as long as it not having refined by yang-qi , is called yin-shen and  to the final analysis , is  something worthless and futile . It is the yang Shen that we are eager  to attain.

 

3) There are no post-heavenly and pre-heavenly concepts in the Indian systems. In Taoist system , while an area where post-heavenly qi arises is called dantian,¬† an¬†indefinite place where pre-heavenly qi arise is called "Magic Gateway " (' Á饝óú') ;¬†one is ¬†for curing diseases¬† or delaying aging , one is for immortality , hardly¬†¬†any¬† mixed up .

 

4) In¬† the Taoist system , ¬†Yi's¬† trigrams¬† (' śėďŚć¶')¬† are¬† heavily used to describe¬† different phases of our practice and¬† life scenarios¬†¬†,¬† which you unlikely find anything¬†similar in the Chakra system¬†¬†.¬†¬†For example ,¬†¬† there is one important trigram¬†pair¬†,¬†¬†the¬† upper Li (fire) ---¬† lower Kan (water ) trigram ,¬† pointing¬†¬†out to us¬†¬†the fatal , vulnerable¬†¬†¬†human status¬†¬† in which¬†¬†most¬† people¬† ¬†situated ,yet¬† is the starting point¬† where they ¬†begin¬†their practice.

 

 

 

Edited by exorcist_1699
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a number of acupuncture points associated with both the three dantian and the chakras.

 

In particular, these are Ren Mai 4 for the  lower dantian and sacral chakra, Ren Mai 17 for  the middle dantian and heart chakra, and Du Mai 20 for the upper dantian and crown chakra (though you could add the extra-point Yintang for the upper dantian, which coincides with the third eye).

Edited by Michael Sternbach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/16/2017 at 3:12 PM, Spotless said:

Simple basic practice will bring all of this with it. Complex practice will only bring some of this and will require a great deal more time to fully embody.

 

What do you mean by "simple basic practice"? Let's say I wanted to start right now.. I would sit in my asana and then what? Thanks.

Edited by james90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this