For the Dumb Liberals, Especially Progressives

[Brian]

Mitch McConnell and the right wing cabal obstructed almost every judicial opening and many remain vacant after eight years.

 

If they repeal the ACA they have nothing to replace it. Millions will have no health insurance.

Has the term "vast right-wing conspiracy" finally been replaced in the handbook? About time...

 

And "cabal" sounds oh so much more menacing and emotionally gripping, doesn't it?

 

 

EDIT: FWIW, McConnell is a RINO establishmentarian who has blustered, wrung his hands in faux dismay and then given Obama virtually everything he has wanted (sometimes by merely doing nothing in response to the executive overreach of the President who has been judged as violating the Constitution more times than any President before him). Had McConnell not been up for reelection, Merrick Garland would be an Associate Justice now (McConnell floated that trial balloon and it didn't poll well...)

Edited December 31, 2016 by Brian

[ralis]

Has the term "vast right-wing conspiracy" finally been replaced in the handbook? About time...

And "cabal" sounds oh so much more menacing and emotionally gripping, doesn't it?

A little trolling this morning?

[Brian]

A little trolling this morning?

Heavens no! Just an observation. Not gonna post a snarky YouTube video implying I'm insane this time???

 

Curious, though, that you think "right-wing cabal" is an accurate and appropriate expression but you think calling you on that rhetoric is trolling. Not surprising, mind you, as it is consistent.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Brian

[ralis]

Trump continues to deny Russian hacking in spite of every intelligence agency stating the Russians were doing it. After all he has stated he knows more than the generals and does not sit in on the daily intelligence briefings. His recent remark that Putin is very smart is disconcerting.

Edited December 31, 2016 by ralis

[dust]

To be honest, I haven't paid that close of attention (not because of a personal bias against you)...although seeing as how this is the first time I can recall speaking against a source you used, I'm assured that any previous ones you linked to were acceptable enough.

 

Yeah I don't expect anyone to pay particular attention over time to that kind of thing

 

 

True...the Slate article you posted has zero merit, in addition to the source having no merit in general. If it was a great article, I wouldn't have said a thing.

 

Zero? No merit at all, nothing it says is true whatsoever?

 

Would you care to expand?

 

That's a bit of a task, I suppose...breaking it down, what about just one element of the article? The beginning will do well enough.

 

Over the past decade, Russia has boosted right-wing populists across Europe. It loaned money to Marine Le Pen in France, well-documented transfusions of cash to keep her presidential campaign alive. Such largesse also wended its way to the former Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi, who profited “personally and handsomely” from Russian energy deals, as an American ambassador to Rome once put it.

 

...

 

There’s a clear pattern: Putin runs stealth efforts on behalf of politicians who rail against the European Union and want to push away from NATO. He’s been a patron of Golden Dawn in Greece, Ataka in Bulgaria, and Jobbik in Hungary. (...) Ruptures that will likely multiply after Brexit—a campaign Russia’s many propaganda organs bombastically promoted.

 

 

Link by link (I missed out the bit about a bottle of wine because it doesn't seem important):

 

 

1) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/world/europe/russia-fights-wests-ukraine-sanctions-with-aid-and-ideology.html?_r=0

 

The German tabloid Bild reported that the anti-euro Alternative for Germany Party had benefited from cheap gold sales from Russia, which the party denied. There have been investigations into some members of Hungary’s far-right Jobbik Party for any financial ties to Russia. And there have been similar accusations and inquiries in Bulgaria, with its far-right Attack Party; in Slovakia, with its People’s Party; and in the Baltic States, especially with Latvia’s pro-Russian party.

 

Far-right parties seen as aligned with Moscow vote against resolutions in the European Parliament critical of Russia and have sent observers to referendums and elections in separatist-held regions of Ukraine like Crimea and Donetsk, alongside members of some far-left parties like Die Linke in Germany and KKE in Greece.

 

 

2) http://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/national-front-s-russian-loans-cause-uproar-in-european-parliament/

 

The National Front (NF) confirmed it had received a loan of 9 million euro from the First Czech Russian Bank, a private company based in Russia, following the revelation of the information by Médiapart.

...

“We turned to Russia as a last resort, after having tried in France, Switzerland and the Middle East. We did not go to a state-owned bank because we knew that would make it a state matter,” the MEP said.

 

 

3) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/02/wikileaks-cables-berlusconi-putin

 

However, "contacts in both the opposition centre-left Partito Democratico and Berlusconi's own PdL party … have hinted at a more nefarious connection. They believe that Berlusconi and his cronies are profiting personally and handsomely from many of the energy deals between Italy and Russia."

 

Spogli continued: "The Georgian ambassador in Rome has told us that the government of Georgia believes Putin has promised Berlusconi a percentage of profits from any pipelines developed by Gazprom in co-ordination with ENI."

 

 

4) http://www.riskandforecast.com/useruploads/files/pc_flash_report_russian_connection.pdf

 

Way too much info to quote, and a lot of it could be as much nonsense as Pizzagate, but a lot of it is quite interesting and certainly supportive of the article

 

 

5) https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russia-fsu/2014-03-25/putins-western-allies

 

Among many things,

 

One Golden Dawn­­–linked website reports that Michaloliakos even received a letter in prison from Moscow State University professor and former Kremlin adviser Alexander Dugin, one of the authors of Putin’s “Eurasian” ideology. It was also Dugin who hosted Jobbik leader Vona when he visited Moscow. In his letter, Dugin expressed support for Golden Dawn’s geopolitical positions and requested to open a line of communication between Golden Dawn and his think tank in Moscow.

 

 

6) http://www.interpretermag.com/putins-media-are-pushing-britain-for-the-brexit/

 

The whole article lists how Russia's 2 major media outlets were pretty clearly pro-Brexit

 

 

7) dead link

 

 

 

Pretty sure there's some merit in that.

Edited December 31, 2016 by dust

[Marblehead]

Trump continues to deny Russian hacking in spite of every intelligence agency stating the Russians were doing it. After all he has stated he knows more than the generals and does not sit in on the daily intelligence briefings. His recent remark that Putin is very smart is disconcerting.

 

Come on Ralis.  Both the US and Russia have been doing this ever since the internet was established.  We spy on each other.  That's the way governments (and even industries) function.  I'm not suggesting that it was okay for Russia to do it but I won't say it's okay for the US to do it either.  It's just something that is done.

 

And considering how wrong our intelligence agencies have been over the past 20 or more years I don't blame Trump for not wanting to listen to them too often.  And, IMO, they lie too often for job security.  Keep the people frightened and you will keep your job.

[Marblehead]

Zero? No merit at all, nothing it says is true whatsoever?

 

Would you care to expand?

 

 

Well, they did use the word "the" properly.

[Aetherous]

Zero? No merit at all, nothing it says is true whatsoever?

 

Would you care to expand?

 

That's a bit of a task, I suppose...breaking it down, what about just one element of the article? The beginning will do well enough.

 

The entire article was ridiculous (that should be obvious starting right off the bat)...but its point was to insinuate that Trump is placed by Putin and/or is his puppet, and it attempts to appear legitimate in proving that viewpoint.

 

The idea is easily disproven by watching the video of Trump speaking over the past 30 years about possibly running for office.

 

To point out an obvious falsehood which appears as truth in the article, it cites the (fake) news about how the Russians did the recent hacking leaks. There's been absolutely no evidence provided for that, and good reasons to believe it's a lie...but the people at Slate have taken it as truth and cite it without flinching.

 

So to sum this up: I viewed the article as ridiculous simply for what it is, there are so many reasons to doubt the point they were aiming at...and I have at least one reason for criticizing its sources.

[Aetherous]

Trump continues to deny Russian hacking in spite of every intelligence agency stating the Russians were doing it.

 

Wikileaks says it wasn't any Russians, but DC insiders. It's not every intelligence agency saying the Russians did it...primarily (some of) the CIA, who spoke for the other agencies. ODNI and FBI weren't on board with their analysis. Furthermore, absolutely no evidence was provided to the public, or more importantly, even to Congress.

 

World wars should not be started based solely on partisan claims without any proof.

[Brian]

It's a scorched-earth policy. It would be funny if the intent weren't to force a war. I say "funny" because the alleged hacking wasn't election fraud but revealing truly reprehensible behavior by the President's own gang, in their own words.

 

Remember the big printed banners deployed at some of the DNC's late-game rallies? The ones imploring Hillary supporters to vote early! Did it seem like an odd focus at the time? Exit polls reveal it didn't really matter but they were trying to get votes cast before people realized just how corrupt the DNC is. Since then, the focus of both the Obama administration and the mainstream media has been not on the very damning message (which now seems all but buried) but on the alleged messenger. And now we have the central government formalizing the creation of the Ministry of Truth (wonder what they'll call it?)

[Marblehead]

But let's just remember that it's not only the democrats who do this.  The Bush administration was full of it.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

@Marblehead

 

I still care about people.  I already lived the liberal lie.  So, if I treat it with contempt, it isn't that I do not want other people to voice their opinion.  It is just that I think Liberal and Progressivism is a joke.  In the end, Liberal-Democrats-Progressives all have to get money from Conservative companies who were founded on Conservative values.  Eventually we all grow up and either become long term dependants (Liberals)... Or we become self-reliant Conservatives.

 

As for the Live and Let live thing... Dude.  I was wrong.  We should have killed Liberalism years ago before it mutated into cancer.  I mean some of it is fun, makes life fun.  But when you think things will change "just because"???  I had to be delusional.  Anyone who thinks that has to be delusional.  You should change your signature now to read... "I happen to be right most of the time because that is what my friends tell me."

 

But we all grow and learn from our mistakes.  It just so happens that mine were huge.

Oh and BTW SEAN IF YOURE READING THIS.... CONSERVATIVES ARE HAPPIER AND A BETTER CLASS OF PEOPLE.

He was right.  these are my words next though...   Democrats are just bitter and snarky (sorry if that hurts anyone it just happens to be true.)

 

It's a scorched-earth policy. It would be funny if the intent weren't to force a war. I say "funny" because the alleged hacking wasn't election fraud but revealing truly reprehensible behavior by the President's own gang, in their own words.

Remember the big printed banners deployed at some of the DNC's late-game rallies? The ones imploring Hillary supporters to vote early! Did it seem like an odd focus at the time? Exit polls reveal it didn't really matter but they were trying to get votes cast before people realized just how corrupt the DNC is. Since then, the focus of both the Obama administration and the mainstream media has been not on the very damning message (which now seems all but buried) but on the alleged messenger. And now we have the central government formalizing the creation of the Ministry of Truth (wonder what they'll call it?)

 

Please don't use a V for Vendetta Reference.  I wish that movie was banned for the following reasons:

1.  Everything was reversed.  In reality it has always been the secular, atheist and godless people with dark agendas who attempt to do those things.  The purpose of the movie was to distort views to make people see the godless and the evil in a favorable light.

2.  It twists the mind into confusing bad and good.

3.  The world was never like V for Vendetta and never will be.

 

Please, Brian, lets just call it the Episiotomy of Lies?  Because thats really what it is.

Edited December 31, 2016 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Brian]

But let's just remember that it's not only the democrats who do this. The Bush administration was full of it.

Actually, Bush signed several really atrocious bills pushed through by the Democrat-controlled Congress on his way out the door to make the transition as smooth as possible, he left the White House in good condition (a really stark contrast to the Clintons' exit) and he refrained from commenting on his successor's administration both during the transition and throughout Obama's term. I have lots of bones I could pick with both Bush presidencies but they behaved like gentlemen.

[thelerner]

As insightful as this and the other political flame threads are. 

 

I'm kinda hoping we can start the New Year with a spirit of.. screw love, you want love, hire a prostitute, rather friendship, fellowship and tolerance. 

[Brian]

@Marblehead

 

I still care about people. I already lived the liberal lie. So, if I treat it with contempt, it isn't that I do not want other people to voice their opinion. It is just that I think Liberal and Progressivism is a joke. In the end, Liberal-Democrats-Progressives all have to get money from Conservative companies who were founded on Conservative values. Eventually we all grow up and either become long term dependants (Liberals)... Or we become self-reliant Conservatives.

 

As for the Live and Let live thing... Dude. I was wrong. We should have killed Liberalism years ago before it mutated into cancer. I mean some of it is fun, makes life fun. But when you think things will change "just because"??? I had to be delusional. Anyone who thinks that has to be delusional. You should change your signature now to read... "I happen to be right most of the time because that is what my friends tell me."

 

But we all grow and learn from our mistakes. It just so happens that mine were huge.

Oh and BTW SEAN IF YOURE READING THIS.... CONSERVATIVES ARE HAPPIER AND A BETTER CLASS OF PEOPLE.

He was right. these are my words next though... Democrats are just bitter and snarky (sorry if that hurts anyone it just happens to be true.)

 

 

Please don't use a V for Vendetta Reference. I wish that movie was banned for the following reasons:

1. Everything was reversed. In reality it has always been the secular, atheist and godless people with dark agendas who attempt to do those things. The purpose of the movie was to distort views to make people see the godless and the evil in a favorable light.

2. It twists the mind into confusing bad and good.

3. The world was never like V for Vendetta and never will be.

 

Please, Brian, lets just call it the Episiotomy of Lies? Because thats really what it is.

Try Orwell's 1984...

 

EDIT: Worth reading again if you haven't read it in years, BTW. The psychological details are disturbing in their currency.

 

EDIT 2: Or were you referring to something else, maybe? The "scorched-earth" reference, perhaps? (That's a reference to Sherman's March to the Sea.). I never watched that "V" movie because it was such a blatant propaganda piece.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Brian

[Aetherous]

.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Aetherous

[TheWhiteRabbit]

As insightful as this and the other political flame threads are. 

 

I'm kinda hoping we can start the New Year with a spirit of.. screw love, you want love, hire a prostitute, rather friendship, fellowship and tolerance. 

 

You know tolerance is a great thing.  When everyone is tolerant of everyone else.  But that never happens.

 

But, on a different note we can still have friends if we want them and the great thing about that is sometimes we disagree with friends or other people and it does not start a war of some kind.

 

Now if we are a gay, black president who just happens to be Muslim and a communist with a transgender first lady.  Now JoeBlast DID TELL ME THIS.. But how do you believe something like that while it is happening? Well, hey, I guess we are not too surprised when he institutes laws and rules that are UnAmerican.   Kind of pathetic, yet people defend him.  "Oh no, youre racist!"

No, I grew up not even around racism.  My aunt Nina babysat me often and she was filipino.  Someone had to explain... a black person had to explain to me racist terms when I was in my early 30's.  He could not believe I had not been exposed to hate speech.  Later I researched groups as well but that was along the lines of freedom of speech and how it affects populations.

 

At some point the rules of a society become too much and the people rebel.  This is what has happened and is continuing to happen now.

 

@Brian

1984 is a good book.  Yes, that is much how things are looking today.  A mix of Atlas Shrugged and 1984.

 

I do not feel sorry for airing my feeling or deep perceptions of the situation..

It finally made me realize that things have to get worse before they get better.

We already had the worst with Obama.

If Trump does not clean up all the garbage left by Obama, he will be seen far worse than Obama ever was and Obama was really seen as a bad president.  Obama had to fix his own numbers to save face he was so bad.

[liminal_luke]

 

 

Now if we are a gay, black president who just happens to be Muslim and a communist with a transgender first lady.  Now JoeBlast DID TELL ME THIS.. But how do you believe something like that while it is happening? Well, hey, I guess we are not too surprised when he institutes laws and rules that are UnAmerican.   Kind of pathetic, yet people defend him.  "Oh no, youre racist!"

 

 

OK, let`s see if I understand.  Gays, blacks, Muslims, communists, and transgendered people -- all likely to institute UnAmerican laws and rules if elected president.  White rabbits, OK.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Try Orwell's 1984...

 

EDIT: Worth reading again if you haven't read it in years, BTW. The psychological details are disturbing in their currency.

 

EDIT 2: Or were you referring to something else, maybe? The "scorched-earth" reference, perhaps? (That's a reference to Sherman's March to the Sea.). I never watched that "V" movie because it was such a blatant propaganda piece.

 

On edit 2:  I study propaganda in all its forms from the time of Goebbels until now.  I agree, The V for Vendetta movie is trash not worth the time watching.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

OK, let`s see if I understand.  Gays, blacks, Muslims, communists, and transgendered people -- all likely to institute UnAmerican laws and rules if elected president.  White rabbits, OK.

 

it sounds shocking but put them all together, imagine it and then realize the outcome.

If the countries ideals have been opposite for 250 years then you turn it on its head, what is the obvious reaction.

We should not be too surprised.

[liminal_luke]

 

 

Now if we are a gay, black president who just happens to be Muslim and a communist with a transgender first lady.  Now JoeBlast DID TELL ME THIS.. But how do you believe something like that while it is happening? Well, hey, I guess we are not too surprised when he institutes laws and rules that are UnAmerican.   Kind of pathetic, yet people defend him.  "Oh no, youre racist!"

 

 

 

OK, let`s see if I understand.  Gays, blacks, Muslims, communists, and transgendered people -- all likely to institute UnAmerican laws and rules if elected president.  White rabbits, OK.

 

 

it sounds shocking but put them all together, imagine it and then realize the outcome.

If the countries ideals have been opposite for 250 years then you turn it on its head, what is the obvious reaction.

We should not be too surprised.

 

I won`t argue if you want to say that communists and Moslems are unAmerican.  Those are systems of belief that some people hold to, and others disagree with.

 

But there`s nothing unAmerican about being black, gay, transgendered or any combination thereof.  Now it`s true that we haven`t historically treated blacks, gays, and transgendered people decently in the United States.  We haven`t historically treated women decently in the United States either, though you`re not making the argument that it`s unAmerican to be female. But this country was founded on the idea that...well, read it for yourself...

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Edited January 1, 2017 by liminal_luke

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I won`t argue if you want to say that communists and Moslems are unAmerican.  Those are systems of belief that some people hold to, and others disagree with.

 

But there`s nothing unAmerican about being black, gay, transgendered or any combination thereof.  Now it`s true that we haven`t historically treated blacks, gays, and transgendered people decently in the United States.  We haven`t historically treated women decently in the United States either, though you`re not making the argument that it`s unAmerican to be female. But this country was founded on the idea that...well, read it for yourself...

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

No, you took it as an attack on groups of people is what your problem is.

 

I will repeat it one last time.  The ideologies of America have been a certain way for 250 years.

If you take a person who happens to be the following and make him president: gay, black, Muslim, communist.

What do you get and expect?  A waltz in the park? No.

See things as they are.

 

See things how they are instead of how you think they should be and then you will understand.  Everyone can do this.  It is really simple.

Edited January 1, 2017 by TheWhiteRabbit

[ralis]

No, you took it as an attack on groups of people is what your problem is.

 

I will repeat it one last time. The ideologies of America have been a certain way for 250 years.

If you take a person who happens to be the following and make him president: gay, black, Muslim, communist.

What do you get and expect? A waltz in the park? No.

See things as they are.

 

See things how they are instead of how you think they should be and then you will understand. Everyone can do this. It is really simple.

You are in favor as to how such groups have been discriminated against since the founding? Further, USA is apropos instead of America which includes many countries.

Edited January 1, 2017 by ralis

[ralis]

White rabbit,

 

There are many persons on this forum that are women, of color, transgender, various religions, and ethnic groups. My Cherokee ancestors were forced to march across the country for relocation by white criminals. A torturous death march! There are some here that are not interested in your propaganda!!

Edited January 1, 2017 by ralis

[Marblehead]

Note to White Rabbit and Ralis:

 

I feel the both of you are viewing this subject from your own personal, extreme, perspective.  Nothing wrong with that.  But we do need the both of you in order to maintain some kind of balance and harmony throughout the discussion.

 

It is a simple liberal/conservative disagreement.  These have been going on since before written history.  And the disagreements can lead toward further understanding.

 

Keep up the good work.