Why do you say "school"?

[Taoist Texts]

 but the "heavenly circle" of qigong  leads to depletion of the Yuan-jing, leads to death.

 

 

Thats why the millions of qigong practitioners globally are dead by now from their qigong. Oh wait, they are not. It is just a desperately negative advertising. The qigong-ers are fine.

[Brian]

[opendao]

Heaven mandate is not religious thing, you getting into extremes. It's clear experience like those you have in neidan when you getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form. Those things which we speaks we are speaking (or I'm speaking) straight from measure experiences which anybody can repeat probably the same like you but from different context, the problem is that you think your or the experiences you know are only right but how can you know without practicing in others schools? Did you practice XYP? Did you practice Longmen Pai? Zhen Dao? and others? I do not think, there are many schools which works efficiently. There are even buddhist ming methods in japan but you school things that buddhist lost their ming (which is mostly right). Did you practice or did research or other lineages? did you practices in others streams before?

 

you are inattentive. I said clearly what and how to check, and it has no relation " getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form".

 

And I insist that all subjective experiences, visions, encounters with Buddhas - just blind beliefs and hallucinations if there are no alchemy results.

 

Heavenly mandate cannot be checked by a regular person. So it's a religious belief.

 

Texts, material evidences, some alchemy results of other people - that's possible to check by a regular person.

 

This is the difference you don't want to grasp.

 

Alchemy is not for believers and gossips collectors.

 

Thats why the millions of qigong practitioners globally are dead by now from their qigong. Oh wait, they are not. It is just a desperately negative advertising. The qigong-ers are fine.

 

sick logic. Not all qigoners do that. But they are all dead when it's time to die. If you don't know how real Hevenly circle extends life, how you can know how qigoners do their life shorter? Then listen those who know and desperately try to understand why, showing that you have no idea about Neidan's practice.

[effilang]

Heaven mandate is not religious thing, you getting into extremes. It's clear experience like those you have in neidan when you getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form. Those things which we speaks we are speaking (or I'm speaking) straight from measure experiences which anybody can repeat probably the same like you but from different context, the problem is that you think your or the experiences you know are only right but how can you know without practicing in others schools? Did you practice XYP? Did you practice Longmen Pai? Zhen Dao? and others? I do not think, there are many schools which works efficiently. There are even buddhist ming methods in japan but you school things that buddhist lost their ming (which is mostly right). Did you practice or did research or other lineages? did you practices in others streams before?

 

you are inattentive. I said clearly what and how to check, and it has no relation " getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form".

 

And I insist that all subjective experiences, visions, encounters with Buddhas - just blind beliefs and hallucinations if there are no alchemy results.

 

Heavenly mandate cannot be checked by a regular person. So it's a religious belief.

 

Texts, material evidences, some alchemy results of other people - that's possible to check by a regular person.

 

This is the difference you don't want to grasp.

 

Alchemy is not for believers and gossips collectors.

 

sick logic. Not all qigoners do that. But they are all dead when it's time to die. If you don't know how real Hevenly circle extends life, how you can know how qigoners do their life shorter? Then listen those who know and desperately try to understand why, showing that you have no idea about Neidan's practice.

 

To an atheist, the idea of Immortal Spirits or even spirits of any kind, is also a "religious" thing - and to the Daoist practitioner who cannot connect to the divine realm to communicate with the immortals, this too is just fantasy.

 

OpenDao has a toxic habit of shaping the world according to his own achievements and promptly rejecting anyone who claims he has experienced things beyond this own experiences. That's also why everyone tries to "kick" him from their threads, because he is like the summer fly that rejects the idea of winter or the fish in the well that denies the grandness of the ocean. It's the sickness of always wanting to be greater than others; nothing but a fools errand.

 

I know immortals that are 10s of thousands years old and others that go back to numbers I do not even know how to express, but no, it's all fake, because OpenDao can't do it : )

 

Evidently, he also claims heavenly mandate cannot be verified, again, because he lacks the ability and wisdom to do so himself - therefore, nobody else is possibly more capable than him, so it must be rejected.

 

There are plenty of "regular" people that can check it.

If your system is all that you say it is, then your master should be able to check it also, but then again, you have shown that your are incapable of offering any evidence borne of your own school as you have demonstrated on many occasions by avoiding direct requests for such proof.

 

You are without a doubt the best SU27 pilot I have seen : )

 

All anyone has to do is paint a missile with the letters "PROOF?", lock onto you and fire - and you will deploy the latest in evasive technology to perform acrobatic miracles in the sky like never before seen. It's pretty obvious that all you can do is talk or you would have offered anyone who is curious about the validity of your practice some empirical evidence by now, but you resort to the role of a conversational ballerina.

 

Those that cannot prove their system works or have a method to verify their claims that can be experienced by anyone else, will of course naturally place anyone who can and anything they cannot explain in a category which is convenient for them to ridicule, but it only demonstrates their lack of experience and their inability to penetrate into the the deeper parts of the Dao.

 

In our school, after we connect one to the immortals, even the hardcore atheists come to know that what we say is true. That's is the nature of empirical evidence. It's impossible to deny the presence of an immortal, just like it is impossible to deny the presence of another person standing in front of you, and that's why we're successful with working even with people from the scientific community, because we do not "talk", we "walk". We do not tell people to check this or that book, we show them right there and then in a way which is undeniable, even to the strongest unbeliever. They can reject it, but they cannot deny it : )

 

We are not the only school who can do it, but not all schools can do it.

It's really very simple. When you make a claim about something, you have to be able to prove it. Talk is cheap.

 

The texts and material evidences that you keep referring people to, which have nothing to do with the results of your own practice or school, because they were written by someone else about their own personal experience, are just excuses for your lack of evidence.

 

And just look at how adamant you are in saying; You CANNOT do it. It CANNOT be done.

 

Well, as the old saying goes...

 

He who claims it cannot be done, should get the hell out of the way of the one that is already doing it.

 

You're absolutely right when you say that Alchemy is not for believers and gossip collectors. - and that's why you have no way to prove your words to others beyond your power to tell people which book to read to give evidence of what you yourself have likely not achieved.

 

And the only reason I am saying this with confidence right now, is because by saying that certain things CANNOT be done, which CAN and ARE being done, it has fully demonstrated to me just how little you have actually accomplished - but again, it makes sense now, because you can't show any proof can you, OpenDao?

Edited December 8, 2016 by effilang

[thelerner]

Seems to me this thread has been caught in a pointless insulting circling for the past couple pages.  Nothing but animosity is being shown or gained. 

 

I'd suggest to break out of it, start a new thread, that is more directed to a subject, ie some aspect of the practice that you want to discuss.  Whether its breathing, length of sitting, fundamental understanding of the energy body, how long it takes to reach a level of enlightenment.. something.. that can show ones knowledge and art without so much bickering. 

[opendao]

It's really very simple. When you make a claim about something, you have to be able to prove it. Talk is cheap.

 

The texts and material evidences that you keep referring people to, which have nothing to do with the results of your own practice or school, because they were written by someone else about their own personal experience, are just excuses for your lack of evidence.

 

And just look at how adamant you are in saying; You CANNOT do it. It CANNOT be done.

 

Well, as the old saying goes...

 

He who claims it cannot be done, should get the hell out of the way of the one that is already doing it.

 

You're absolutely right when you say that Alchemy is not for believers and gossip collectors. - and that's why you have no way to prove your words to others beyond your power to tell people which book to read to give evidence of what you yourself have not achieved.

 

And the only reason I am saying this with confidence right now, is because by saying that certain things CANNOT be done, which CAN and ARE being done, it has fully demonstrated to me just how little you have actually accomplished - but again, it makes sense now, because you can't show any proof can you, OpenDao?

 

effilang, when in your school at least one student becomes a Xian with Yangshen abilities, we will continue this very respectful conversation.

 

So far it has no sense, because you even don't know what I'm talking about... You don't read texts, don't learn in any alchemy school, so how you can know, really?

 

Texts are important because they were written by people who achieved that goals. Some of those people can be met. Some of them teach. How to search, I told. 

 

I said physical Immortality and miracles of Yangshen are possible and anybody can obtain such proofs, and such results for themselves. I got such proofs for myself and shared my own experience a bit. And it's much further then to just read texts, you're inattentive here or biased intentionally...

 

You cannot imagine that people can already have own direct experiences with various kind of spirits: own Shen, Yangshen, Yinshen of other persons, demons-Mo, Xian and so on. If people have never even heard about something like this before then your school can probably be surprising. But for those who is looking for Yangshen... all you can offer is a lengthy post that old books are crap because they don't mention your school approach. Which says enough on its own.

 

edit: fixed the name, it was really unintentional

Edited December 8, 2016 by opendao

[Walker]

Can you tell me what did it say about huan-dan?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Luk

 

This the first time I heard about him.

 

Maybe I will spend some time to look for the book.

 

------

 

I googled him and found that he translated some important classics of Buddhism.

 

 

----

 

After another googled

 

性命法訣明指 is the Chinese name of the book " daoist yoga".

 

And this book was written by 趙壁塵，千峰老人。

 

I have not read jaou's book yet.

 

To read a Chinese book is easier for me than a English book.

 

Give me some days to read it.

 

 

-----

 

After another googled I have found the English and Chinese version of the book.

 

 

------

 

I have read the Chinese version.

 

Flying snow, full moon, is the same with me.

 

But after them, something is different.

 

心不能動，速用真意，眼要子、卯、午、酉一轉，照定魔光一吸，收入色身內。其魔光化為陽光，久久煉之，陰魔之光化為陽神之光，助我胎足，再煉面壁還虛等功，此出胎正氣向空口訣

 

This part is different.

 

I did not do anything and just let the yang Shen show up.

 

The book did not describe what the yang Shen looks like.

 

So I can not sure what he said is right or wrong.

 

He said that after the yang Shen show up, we need to use our 真意 to receive yang Shen.

 

I have never done that before, so I can not sure if it is right or not.

 

 

I should cultivate to make sure this.

 

After I make sure, I will write it down.

 

But the state is really very hard to get there.

 

Anyway, just do it.

 

 

Thank you for telling me about the book.

 

Some people talked about the book in china.

 

But they just misunderstand the book.

 

So I do not have desire to see the book.

 

Now I read the book.

 

Before yang Shen is right.

 

But after, I can not sure.

 

I need to cultivate to get the real experience.

 

I do not know how long I will spend to sure this part.

 

 

 

What I read from other classics have difference way.

 

They do not do anything to receive yang Shen.

 

And the yang Shen will grow more and more yang shens.

 

 

So which is right?

 

I do not know.

 

Let yang Shen grow by itself ?

 

Or receive yang Shen to our body?

 

Need to try it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

　　還虛面壁之功，古雲總得九年。我功末至此，我師傳授口訣，今傳於後。我師了空禪師曰： " 還虛一著，是將從前十魔百煉，不動心。通天達地之陽神，分形散影，顯化於世，救急消災，與人治病。複將陽神收入祖竅，歸於性海之內，勿另其出色身。複將色身閉住煉化，渾入法身之中，此是先天之中先天性命。複將陽神退藏法身祖竅之內，要將色身煉得不有不無，非色非空，無內無外，不出不入，無始無終。如龍養珠，蟄藏而不動。如雞抱卵，安眠而不起，沉之又沉 ; 靜之又靜，從前所修所證，百千萬億化身，乘龍跨鎢，步口玩月，千變萬化，一齊收入祖竅之內，依滅盡定，而寂滅之。此是矗龍之法，必須大死一場。謹謹護持，毋容陽神可由。益陽神百煉而百靈，千煉而愈精。煉煉不已，則陽神之總光內神火隱而收之愈密，斯放之愈普。隱之無可隱，斯顯之無可顯。將陽神收藏祖竅之內，定極滅盡之餘，久而久之，將陽神真火養足，而一爐神光，凡幾騰騰。滿鼎真火，炎炎烈烈。自內竅透出外竅，由大竅貫大小竅。毛內無外，無大無小，透頂徹底，光光相燭，竅竅相映。而天地萬物 : 莫不照耀於神光之中矣。煉至三年、九載、百年、千年、千劫、萬動，直待四大崩散，虛空粉碎，無形無跡。此乃是帶肉大覺金仙，萬劫不壞金剛之體。 . 法訣至此，永無秘訣也。 "

 

And I found this.

 

Joau's teacher talked about yang Shen.

 

It is really amazing.

 

It is beyond my experience.

 

But I know what he said is right.

 

 

 

 

 

42 清光緒二十一年三月十三日，余在金山寺辛遇了然、了空禪師，致心苦求，傳我至道，決破周身關竅。三日夜，授余全訣。拜別之際，師曰：『子年三十五歲，無有後裔，留下子孫，再用大功不遲。不可將精氣受傷，精氣神足，如用大功，立可成也。』乃知此是性命雙修金丹大道，並非絕嗣斷後之道，須知太上、釋迎皆有子耳。

 

Jaou just stayed with his teacher for three days.

 

 

 

 

The first thing I though that is what Liao Kung master said is right.

 

But what Jaou said is very strange.

 

But the difference is in the stage of yang Shen.

 

I am still a new one in yang Shen stage.

 

So I can not to tell what Jaou said is right or not.

 

Hope I can prove it one day.

Okaaaaayyyy, since we have a new proselytizing savior here, this post really needs to be highlighted.

 

Twice above, in English, Awaken tells us that Zhao Bichen's master Liaokong is right. Actually, not just right, but "amazing" and "beyond her experience."

 

What is the glaring irony here?

 

Awaken calls the Wu-Liu school "mistaken" and "liars,"

 

Yet,

 

Liaokong was a recipient and transmitter of Wu-Liu teachings.

 

Once again that permanent hand-shaped bruise on my forehead grows a deeper shade of purple. Maybe this is why Daoist's love this color?

 

For those who care to do their homework, Google translate should suffice with what I'm pasting below:

 

外释内道的高僧了然、了空二位禅师

 

了然禅师，道号清禅，于乾隆三十六年（1771）拜柳祖为师，后住镇江金山寺修炼。柳华阳著作中载有《了然五问》，可证其事。

 

了空禅师，道号清净，北京人，自幼在北京天桥西仁寿寺出家，属禅宗临济派。清嘉庆四年（1799）五月，柳华阳祖师来京住仁寿寺，传丹诀于了空。了空祖师得诀后，出庙云游，至金山寺挂单与了然祖师一同修炼。二祖师后传功于赵避尘。

 

了然、了空两位祖师虽然没有留下著作传世，但在实修上，都达到了极高的境界。今天我们还能通过赵避尘的《性命法诀明指》中的一些片断，来窥见二位祖师的丹法概况与成就。

 

If Google translate is not clear enough let me know.

 

Irony much?

[awaken]

What Jaou said is different from his teacher, luau kung , but the same with Wu Liu.

 

It is really strange.

 

Jaou use a lot control, but his teacher does not.

 

I discussed with my friend.

 

He had been to Jaou's qq groups before.

 

That group is teached by Jaou's student.

 

My friend told me that they use a lot of control.

 

But I can not find any control from Jaou's teacher's words.

 

Strange things.

Edited December 8, 2016 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

  If you don't know how real Hevenly circle extends life

It does not. There is no proof of that, therefore it is a lie intended to lure the greedy and the scared.

 

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

Liaokong was a recipient and transmitter of Wu-Liu teachings.

 

 

Apparently you do not know that the modern wu-liuers disown him something fierce, totally denying that he got full transmission, let alone put it into a book. As per usual they dont like the competition. 

[awaken]

the situations is common in dao's books.

 

性命圭旨has the same.

 

What his teacher said is right.

 

But the writer is wrong.

 

There is a saying in China.

 

師父領進門，修行在個人

 

Someone's succeed does not mean his student's succeed.

 

I have some students, some of them can understand the core very well.

 

But some always wrong.

[opendao]

Apparently you do not know that the modern wu-liuers disown him something fierce, totally denying that he got full transmission, let alone put it into a book. As per usual they dont like the competition. 

 

pls tell us the size of qianfengpai and wu-lu pai. You love numbers and pretend to know everything. Then we'll both laugh on "competition".

 

Liao haven't received full transmission, so modern ideas that Zhao inherited fully from Wu-Liu Pai have no support, however they quoted WLP books and used ideas from the texts, so Walker is right in his irony.

Edited December 8, 2016 by opendao

[awaken]

The book dao yoga, something is right , something is wrong.

 

What liau Kung said is right.

 

But what Jaou said is not always right.

 

There are many mistakes in Jaou's words.

 

Especially the methods of control is wrong.

[Brian]

We cannot see beyond our horizons. If we reach higher ground, our horizons expand.

[Taoist Texts]

To prevent usual trolling: nobody in a true alchemy school won't tell you about his/her personal results, achievements, practice, because if they do it, they won't be able to continue the practice.  

 

May be. It does not make any sense but may be. OR. May be they can not be specific because they do not have anything. They just lie that they do but would not go into details because it will be immediately obvious that they are lying. 

 

May be the reason there is no pics and vids of these teachers is because photographs steal their  souls. OR. They look dishonest and inept in those. Imagine learning from someone whose face is his worst enemy.

[awaken]

Ok

 

Though I waste some time to read another book, I still find something good, liau Kung.

 

His words is not much, but very important.

 

I found similar things in 楞伽經 and 黃庭經.

 

Now I found another one, liau Kung.

 

Very good.

 

Though his students misunderstand what he said, it is ok for me.

 

Because his student leave what he said.

 

And that is the most important.

 

It is very hard to find someone who go the right way.

[Walker]

The book dao yoga, something is right , something is wrong.

 

What liau Kung said is right.

 

But what Jaou said is not always right.

 

There are many mistakes in Jaou's words.

 

Especially the methods of control is wrong.

Uh-huh, and Liaokong's teacher wrote the Huimingjing/慧命經!

 

你一方面說慧命經充斥了謬誤，也說伍柳派全是自欺欺人，可是另一方面你還說伍柳派的繼承人了空法師論的都是正法。你還不覺得你講話有點太矛盾了嗎？勸君細想之。

[Walker]

We cannot see beyond our horizons. If we reach higher ground, our horizons expand.

Problem is most of us get altitude sickness before we're 1/4 of the way up the mountain and just start building little temples in which to jibber away about the glories of the summit while we're still deep in the cloud layer...

[opendao]

It does not. There is no proof of that, therefore it is a lie intended to lure the greedy and the scared.

 

You don't know the alchemy, you don't practice, so you have no proofs.

[opendao]

Problem is most of us get altitude sickness before we're 1/4 of the way up the mountain and just start building little temples in which to jibber away about the glories of the summit while we're still deep in the cloud layer...

 

very true.

[opendao]

May be. It does not make any sense but may be. OR. May be they can not be specific because they do not have anything. They just lie that they do but would not go into details because it will be immediately obvious that they are lying. 

 

may be one is not an anonymous good guy but just a russian forum troll Arhont Plutaev...

 

OR. May be the only reason one cannot shut his evil mouth is not because alchemy teachers ask money for the teaching, but just because he was rejected as his character is evil as the darkest hell...

 

OR. May be it's not he who mistranslated bunch of texts just to attract few poor students who ran away few years later...

 

May be we can believe it's not true and there are no more maybe... But it's impossible, n'est pas?

[Taoist Texts]

 shut his evil mouth 

 

There, there

[opendao]

There, there

 

Why so green and lonely? 

Lonely, lonely? 

[Taoist Texts]

Why so green and lonely? 

Lonely, lonely? 

 

And this guy teaches people. Think about someone paying him for his wisdom.

[Aetherous]

I'm not going to report opendao for continuing to insult forum members, but I'm going to point it out for him to change it himself.

Also, "when you point your finger at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you".