Sign in to follow this  
Satyaloka

seeking guidance on practicing with pain

Recommended Posts

So, I'm just on the precipice of applying to acupuncture school and jumping into a practice of qigong, neigong, etc, yet i've been having pretty bad joint pain specifically in my big toes and knuckles for about a year. Two days ago I was diagnosed with a connective tissue and joint hyper mobility disorder known as Ehler Danlos Syndrome and was told from x rays that my big toe joints had the wear and tear of someone who has had osteoarthritis in their 50's and 60's, and i'm 23. 

 

I immediately have felt a sense of discouragement because so much of cultivation (as far as my novice research has concluded) is done standing. I suppose overtime with physical therapy I could practice while wearing super supportive shoes and orthotics, but my grasping mind pines for the image of serenely cultivating with my bare feet on the ground, pulling qi from the earth. 

 

My question then, is are there cultivation practices that are done sitting? My deepest yearning in this life is to come as close to awakening as possible. Is it possible to learn these alchemical neidan meditations without doing lots of standing qigong/neigong before hand? I will follow any tradition that leads me to the way.

 

If anyone knows any authentic teachers or resources that could help and guide me in this quest, i would be so grateful. 

 

Also, if anyone has any advice or experience on practicing with pain, it would be a huge help. I really feel like through the right positive intentions/mindframes, healing work, and diet, I can heal myself. I just had this bomb of a diagnosis dropped on my head a couple days ago and it truly feels like the push to give my life to practice and awakening.

 

thank you guys for the wealth of information in this sacred little corner of cyberspace. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re:

-----

"I really feel like through the right positive intentions/mindframes, healing work, and diet, I can heal myself."

-----

 

I also think this may be possible.

 

I cannot offer any medical advice, but I am interested in your predicament and may have some lifestyle ideas that you might find applicable to your goals. Feel free to PM me.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Satyaloka,

 

I am not a medical person, but I also believe you can heal.  In fact, many of the most acomplished people started out with very ominous sounding health difficulties.  They overcame these problems and went on to reach great heights.  Such problems can provide very powerful motivation.

 

Standing is great, of course, but the process of internal development is not dependent on any one position.¬† I do Yi Gong as taught by Sifu Jenny Lamb and would recommend that.¬† I always practice sitting.¬†But really, you could follow any of a number of paths, whatever you are drawn to.¬† Many here find Stillness Movement practice helpful.¬† (Contact the Tao Bum who goes by Yamu if this is of interest as he¬īs the teacher.of this system.)

 

Whatever you decide, I am confident healing -- and more -- is possible.¬† There is nothing you can¬īt do.

 

Liminal

Edited by liminal_luke
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I can see is that you aren't moving enough! No movement leads to stagnation. Liver Qi likes movement and rules the tendons, sinews and joint flexibility.

 

Standing meditation is not a good/enough practice by itself.

 

Try IMA and or walking meditation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A place conducive to enlightenment and a fully nourished kidney and liver elements (and how the most important aspect of your practice should be):

 

 

Constant movement.

 

Compared to this one: stagnation, disease, endless material density, bad karma, human activity.

 

My polluted pond

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your resources, support, and ideas. The thing is, I have been in constant movement. I've been a teacher of hatha yoga asana for 5 years, and i'm constantly hiking and trying to stay active. the only problem is due to my genetic disease, this has taken an unnaturally severe toll on my connective tissue and joints (primarily my big toes) A big problem is that my joints have too much movement. they are extraordinarily flexible and hyper extendable. Sitting in lotus has been a natural position for me since childhood and thankfully doesn't put pressure on my toe joints. It just feels discouraging embarking into an entirely new spiritual tradition, (which to my understanding) involves a lot of standing positions for cultivation. I know that it's definitely possible to heal with divine power, but at the moment I feel lost on the direction to do so.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Satyaloka,

 

Regarding your joint problems. First thing, get a quality dit da jow and use it nightly. This will kill the pain in your toes and the associated reduction in inflammation may reduce some of the day to day dammage. I recommend Tiger Exits the Forrest from Dale Dugas at daledugasherbs.com.

 

Next, get a bottle of Bone Knitting Powder a good brand can be found here: www.modernherbshop.com, and take that as well. Martial artists use that in China to repair injuries to soft tissue. Start with a half dose and work your way up. Do not drink while you take this as it is hard on the liver. In your case it is unlikely to solve the problem, but it will help slow things down. Don't do more than two cycles in a year.

 

Following that, get to a good herbalist in your area and get on a custom made formula. It probably won't slow the problem, but it will help slow down the progression of the disease.

 

Regarding cultivation systems that do not require standing, you basically have three choices in your case: Taoist orbit training, Franz Bardon's school of Hermetics and one of various out of body projection schools.

 

For the Taoist orbit training, your best bet is www.kundaliniawakeningprocess.com via Santiago Dobles or Tao Semko. The good news is they have a very well developed video learning system that I highly recommend.

 

For Franz Bardon's school you really only have two choices: me or Mark Rasmus. For Mark you will need to travel to Thailand and spend 4-6 weeks there to get the basic training. He can be found at www.markrasmus.com.

 

The out of body projection schools are numerous, but given your compromised physical state I would advise against it. In general, whatever drives this process seems to burn a pretty rare fuel and people with big physical problems do not seem to last very long.

 

You can check my blog archives for some introductory information at www.yogicengineering.com

 

Best of luck,

 

Peacedog

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never doubt that there is a way for you to heal, regardless of what this or that doctor or diagnosis might say.

 

You are embarking on a healing path; you are lucky to have this trouble as a source of motivation and even inspiration. Study hard and search far, far and wide till you find your healing. Then share it with your patients, healer.

 

Also, many/most Daoist practices taught properly can be used in different postures depending upon the physical needs of the student. But you will need to find teachers first.

 

This all may take years, but you will learn much and change deeply if you let your path unfold.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding cultivation systems that do not require standing, you basically have three choices in your case: Taoist orbit training, Franz Bardon's school of Hermetics and one of various out of body projection schools.

 

Not even remotely true.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry you're in pain.  Beyond sitting there is zhan zhang standing practice.  Matter of fact you can stand and 'do' gi gong routines in your head; seeing them there and not actually moving.  I actually feel the energetics working, though it is different. 

 

and here's an old post on pain;

 

Dealing w/ Pain, Great Take from Otis

 

Otis: Hi Bluefront,

I have a lot of experience with healing muscle and connective tissue in myself.


What I would do, is to make the injury into my moving meditation. Find a good, non-stressful posture (even lying down), relax, and then slowly, lovingly, activate the areas that hurt, through movement. Get the pain to be just hot enough to be intense, but not enough that my system shouts "no!" at me. Basically, I listen for the "no!" and back off, just a smidge, and make that my arena of play.


And I emphasize "play", because it is better, IME, to be guided not by technique or concepts, but by the actual parameters of the injury. Every injury is unique, and the body's signals are there, precisely to guide me toward self-healing.


Also, because that level of intense (but not freak-out) pain, can actually be a very joyful experience. If it is not, then I'd recommend slowing down, paying still more attention. If I'm tripping over my body's "no!" signals, then I'm not listening enough. The more I can utterly and joyfully "fall into" the sheer sensation of the pain with my awareness, the faster the injury heals.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding cultivation systems that do not require standing, you basically have three choices in your case: Taoist orbit training, Franz Bardon's school of Hermetics and one of various out of body projection schools.

 

 

Not even remotely true.

Yes, don't know where he came up with that....absolutely not true.

 

"Regarding your joint problems. First thing, get a quality dit da jow and use it nightly. This will kill the pain in your toes..."

I am a fan of Dit Da Jow...but have seen plenty of cases where it didn't do a thing. Always worth a try.

 

OP:

Pain is something quite a large percentage of Qigong/Neigong practitioners have had and still have. For the majority, I think we can safely say the practices can be amazing at pain reduction as well as, in many cases, pain elimination. I can also say that personally, if I didn't practice the neigong I do, I really don't think I could walk, AND I probably would be addicted to painkillers (I don't take any). IS qigong/neigong a majic bullet? No, lifestyle always makes a huge difference.

I think you would find The Gift of the Tao movements helpful, when done up to the point but not past the point, of pain. The Stillness-Movement sitting practice has been a true Godsend for me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can get a phone healing from http://springforestqigong.com as it's been proven by "gold standard" science to be effective for chronic pain.  

 

 

External Qigong for Chronic Pain, Results from a peer-reviewed, randomized, controlled, clinical study Ann Vincent, Brent A. Bauer, et al Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota Jamia Hill, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota Objective:

"Chronic pain is highly prevalent in the general population. Adequate clinical management of chronic pain is an ongoing challenge and a purely pharmaceutical approach has proven inadequate. We investigated the efficacy of external qigong [spring Forest Qigong technique] as an adjunctive treatment for chronic pain."

Conclusions:

"Subjects with chronic pain who received external qigong experienced reduction in pain intensity following each qigong treatment. This is especially impressive given the long duration of pain (>5 years) in the most of the participants," writes lead author Ann Vincent, MD, MBBS, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota.

 

http://www.springforestqigong.com/index.php/sfq-for-health-professionals/medical-studies

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my view Medical Qigong IS the gold standard for pain reduction/elimination. Nothing else even comes close.

 

I also think that long term history of use overshadows any study for clarity of efficacy. To me, the above referenced healer's decades of medical qigong results far outweigh the studies.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would take advantage of Ya Mu's suggestions.

 

Personally I had pain in my big toe joints and they are gone now - from practicing Qi Gong.

 

Some of the exercises were initially painful but miraculously the pain went away very quickly and it has never come back.

 

You asked for resources and teachers but neglected to tell us where you reside - always helpful for those wishing to offer suggestions.

 

I would also suggest fasting.

Edited by Spotless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reside in Tennessee, and am planning to study acupuncture and Chinese medicine at Daoist Traditions College in Asheville, NC. I am always willing to travel for teaching or healing though. 

 

Grateful for all the support, thoughts, and resources! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this