what is reality and what is illusion ?

[Stosh]

^{The cops are trying to accumulate objectively supportable data which fits and formulates the reifications they hold, to most accurately reflect the universe ( which exists, but must be inferred )}

^{or something like that.}

Edited August 20, 2014 by Stosh

[Rara]

^{The cops are trying to accumulate objectively supportable data which fits and formulates the reifications they hold, to most accurately reflect the universe ( which exists, but must be inferred )}

^{or something like that.}

Oh good god ...

 

So...facts? Lol

[Rara]

And Stosh, what goes on when you type? You always have such eratic font sizes!

[goldisheavy]

Ok. Fair point...

 

So how about this.

 

A murders B.

 

The cops bring A in for questioning and A denies everything. Are the cops trying to extract the truth, or reality? Surely the truth can only be the only reliable answer of value?

 

Or reality even. Just linguistics suggests "truth" is the right word to use.

 

I think in common parlance words like "truth" and "reality" will be used interchangeably because most peasants mean "phenomenal reality" when they say "reality." Most run of the mill people also consider phenomenal reality to be the ultimate reality at the same time, albeit unconsciously.

 

So how your question should be answered will depend on perspective. From my perspective the answer to your question, since it pertains to the phenomenal contents of a dream, is truth, which is a reliable conceptual formation. Since the past is no longer taking place, there is no way it can be real by my definition of reality. So when you're a detective who is looking for what must have happened in the past, you're trying to piece together a backstory, basically. That kind of work is 100% dreamlike. Narrative construction and narrative validation. That's what dreaming is all about.

Edited August 20, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Rara]

 

I think in common parlance words like "truth" and "reality" will be used interchangeably because most peasants mean "phenomenal reality" when they say "reality." Most run of the mill people also unconsciously consider phenomenal reality to be the ultimate reality at the same time, albeit unconsciously.

 

So how your question should be answered will depend on perspective. From my perspective the answer to your question, since it pertains to the phenomenal contents of a dream, is truth, which is a reliable conceptual formation. Since the past is no longer taking place, there is no way it can be real by my definition of reality. So when you're a detective who is looking for what must have happened in the past, you're trying to piece together a backstory, basically. That kind of work is 100% dreamlike. Narrative construction and narrative validation. That's what dreaming is all about.

Good way of putting it.

 

I care little for the differentiation these days, but that's just me. The "peasant" and "run of the mill person" are everywhere and it does help to not be so segregated.

[Stosh]

And Stosh, what goes on when you type? You always have such eratic font sizes!

My aura interferes with electronics.

[C T]

My aura interferes with electronics.

[goldisheavy]

Good way of putting it.

 

I care little for the differentiation these days, but that's just me. The "peasant" and "run of the mill person" are everywhere and it does help to not be so segregated.

 

It helps me. I find that both bodily and mental solitude are very helpful when it comes time to discover what is it that I really believe, expect, want, don't want, fear, etc. Differentiation is one way of maintaining mental solitude when you can't or don't want to have too much bodily solitude. This puts mental difference between your views and those of others. When you discount the views of others, you gain space in your own mind to think more freely about your own views. Otherwise you subconsciously try to adjust your own views to take into account other views as well. This balancing act takes energy (not talking about electricity or the spiritual equivalent here, only a metaphor). Freeing up that energy makes a huge difference in how a person thinks.

Edited August 20, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Rara]

 

It helps me. I find that both bodily and mental solitude are very helpful when it comes time to discover what is it that I really believe, expect, want, don't want, fear, etc. Differentiation is one way of maintaining mental solitude when you can't or don't want to have too much bodily solitude. This puts mental difference between your views and those of others. When you discount the views of others, you gain space in your own mind to think more freely about your own views. Otherwise you subconsciously try to adjust your own views to take into account other views as well. This balancing act takes energy (not talking about electricity or the spiritual equivalent here, only a metaphor). Freeing up that energy makes a huge difference in how a person thinks.

Agreed

 

(Not often do I post so bluntly. Feels good!)

[3bob]

Physical reality (so to speak) includes all levels or forms of energy including those which can not be seen with physical eyes or detected by the normal body related senses...(like x-rays, electromagnetic waves, etc.) thus we presently have tools that greatly extend what can be sensed and then translated into data that we can see or whatever sense may be used, thus if we had powerful enough tools we could see right up to very first manifestation of Tao - yet not beyond... and such manifestations would include the light bodies of souls.

 

(with some experiments of supposedly weighing a persons body by the second before and after death that indicate what would normally not be expected, namely a change in mass via the departure of soul or whatever term one may prefer)

Edited August 22, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

... and such manifestations would include the light bodies of souls.

I think you might have looked too far with this one.

 

(with some experiments of supposedly weighing a persons body by the second before and after death that indicate what would normally not be expected, namely a change in mass via the departure of soul or whatever term one may prefer)

That has been proven to be in error. I don't remember the science behind it but it's all BS.

[3bob]

I think you might have looked too far with this one.

 

That has been proven to be in error. I don't remember the science behind it but it's all BS.

 

Maybe to far for present science, yet who would have believed 150 years ago that there would be techniques that can reveal to astronomers the make up or elemental compounds in objects in the solar system or many light years away?

 

I don't know about the details in the change in mass so maybe I shouldn't have brought that one up although at the time I came across it it sounded like a possibility.

[Marblehead]

Maybe to far for present science, yet who would have believed 150 years ago that there would be techniques that can reveal to astronomers the make up or elemental compounds in objects in the solar system or many light years away?

Yeah. Possibilities vs probabilities. Anything is possible. One would first have to determine what a soul is and then determine if there is or is not one. Then further inquires could be possible.

 

I don't know about the details in the change in mass so maybe I shouldn't have brought that one up although at the time I came across it it sounded like a possibility.

That was part of a documentary I watched recently. My memory of it is weak because I never believed in the existence of a physical soul anyhow so I wasn't paying that close attention.

 

It did mention what you spoke to and then pointed out the errors in the method of investigation, failed attempts to replicate it, etc.

[3bob]

neti, neti,

[BaguaKicksAss]

Reality if what helps and improves the wellbeing and spirit/soul of oneself and others. Illusion is that which doesn't .

[TaoMaster]

Reality is what helps and improves the wellbeing and spirit/soul of oneself and others. Illusion is that which doesn't .

true , and so are the rest of the yang attributes. Once you know what they are , illusions will begin to vanish many times each day , We can know what each bit of reality is and vanish illusions instantly when becomeing aware of them. .

 

its progressive too

 

the more reality we percieve, the more reality we are able to percieve as our well being improves. The more able we become , the more reality we are able to percieve, and there is no end to it . We can see all that is real .

 

as well, all the yang attributes increase, knowledge, ability, happiness, truthfulness,understanding, helpfulness, reality, positive, wellness, etc etc .

 

when we increase one yang attribute they all increase to the same degree.

 

thanks for your comment.

[TaoMaster]

neti, neti,

aka illusion , aka yin

[BaguaKicksAss]

Oops, didn't read the advanced Taoist part . I'm sure in some reality or another I'm an advanced Taoist...

 

Thanks for your reply, good contemplations.

[3bob]

aka illusion , aka yin

 

"neti, neti" meaning is more like: not this description, not that description, or not this thing and not that thing...

 

as for the duality of yang and yin - I'd say they are joined at the hip so to speak, thus no illusion when seen correctly.

Edited August 24, 2014 by 3bob

[Bearded Dragon]

as for the duality of yang and yin - I'd say they are joined at the hip so to speak, thus no illusion when seen correctly.

 

It's the 'seeing correctly' thing that I don't think most people seem to get. The whole thing of potential seems to mess people up for some reason.

 

Yin is only yin from a position of more yang and vice versa, thereby creating the illusion in that a definition of such a thing would depend on a fixed reference point where there isn't one. Labels are part of the illusion.

 

If you want to deal with yin and yang you have to ditch the definitions and work with them when they arise, as only then can you adapt to the potential as it is rather than what you think it is. I think that comes under your 'neti neti', Bob.

 

It's all the same thing. Be present, forget the thinking mind, bla bla. Everyone has heard it all before.

 

 

In other words, TaoMaster, such labels of yin and yang without thought of the reference point are hardly helpful. You are basically finding clarity in a self-created paradigm. Analogically it could be likened to building a box around yourself and saying you understand everything around you. And moreso it's solidifying the false self rather than obliterating it.

 

The reference point according to your own reality is 'self'. What good are the terms yin and yang to you if you haven't found self? This is why I don't worry about these things as it is not helpful in the long run to ponder too much in falsities.

[TaoMaster]

deleted by taomaster dupicate post

Edited August 25, 2014 by TaoMaster

[TaoMaster]

Any reference to " not " is yin . And illusuon is " not "whats real. ,.......real ><Iillusion . They diectly oppose one another.

 

Like the hot solid center of earth to the cold this outer atmosphere of the planet.

 

When illusion is pushed hard against reality, a sensation is generated.

 

A sensation of interest+ and deception -

 

When e er any yang and yin are pushed together, a thing always gets generated.

 

When a man + and woman- are pushed together , another person is generated. Sex is as phsysically as close as two can get ,

 

There are absolutes and not absolutes .

 

Yang and yin is absolute but for any absolite thing to exist, an unabsolute must also exist to rhe same degree.

 

Stars in the night sky and dark clouds by day.

 

Before we can know the illusions , realities must be understood first.

[TaoMaster]

Oops, didn't read the advanced Taoist part . I'm sure in some reality or another I'm an advanced Taoist

 

Thanks for your reply, good contemplations.

All are welcome , advanced or not : ) The more advanced the better.

[3bob]

This guy can do things even Yoda couldn't do:

 

[Marblehead]

My reality right now is that my computer went down yesterday and I am having one heck of a time getting things back to normal. Not there yet but I'm going to keep on pushing.