Mastering the emotions

[C T]

Ct , youre not an intruder in this section IMO, never have been, though perhaps youve not felt welcomed.

Thank you too, Stosh! Peace and much blessings always!!

[Brian]

Ct , youre not an intruder in this section IMO, never have been, though perhaps youve not felt welcomed.

 

Anyway , Im just finding a bit odd , so many different voices suggesting that a person is basically going in a right direction, and at least one saying the reverse, but the person himself is saying he feels he is being misunderstood .. by them. hmmmm

 

Complete freedom IS nothing left to lose..

<queue_Kris-Kristofferson|Janice-Joplin> Edited June 13, 2014 by Brian

[Stosh]

Well, anyone discerning enough to call a foe a "disseminator of half-truths" , is OK in my book.

( widom is valid wherever its found so yes ! queue the song maestro.)

[Kajenx]

@ Stosh: It's true that you've all been very encouraging, so thank you for that. That said, I do feel misunderstood - i.e. I'm not really doing a good job conveying what I mean. Most of the replies have been in defense of emotional thinking as either too dificult to control or unhealthy to remove/suppress - or even that it's a long process to become more moral/compassionate/happy. This is true, which is why this mind-frame I'm talking about is so miraculous. It spontaneously removes all of this emotional world and replaces it with perfection. There is no emotional work to do, because the emotions are transcended completely and you simply feel content and benevolent towards everything because there is nothing you want or need. I'm not really sure how else to explain what I'm talking about, so that's why I said there wasn't much more I could add. Maybe if I'm able to spent more time in this mind-frame and integrate it into everyday life, I'll be more able to explain it in a way that doesn't make it sound negative to people.

[Marblehead]

You might actually be speaking of being totally immersed in the state of "wu".

[gatito]

@ Stosh: It's true that you've all been very encouraging, so thank you for that. That said, I do feel misunderstood - i.e. I'm not really doing a good job conveying what I mean. Most of the replies have been in defense of emotional thinking as either too dificult to control or unhealthy to remove/suppress - or even that it's a long process to become more moral/compassionate/happy. This is true, which is why this mind-frame I'm talking about is so miraculous. It spontaneously removes all of this emotional world and replaces it with perfection. There is no emotional work to do, because the emotions are transcended completely and you simply feel content and benevolent towards everything because there is nothing you want or need. I'm not really sure how else to explain what I'm talking about, so that's why I said there wasn't much more I could add. Maybe if I'm able to spent more time in this mind-frame and integrate it into everyday life, I'll be more able to explain it in a way that doesn't make it sound negative to people.

 

Does the phrase benevolent indifference hit the spot?

[gatito]

Or perhapas impersonal benevolent indifference is a better fit?

[3bob]

My take,

 

"Perfection" (which can be somewhat of a tricky word) can spontaneously move through all emotional aspects of mind via its purity, thus emotion is not removed per-se but can be aligned and purified as a matrix for that perfection to be manifested to the degree which a matrix can be worked through and maintained. (working on cosmic and micro-cosmic scales)

 

A "Buddha" (who btw. is not limited in any way to just Buddhism) is acting like such a matrix and knows it and desires it which is part of the true desire* which in this world often covered over by 10,000 permutated desires that can act to block it if or when we forget dharma's or spiritual laws that work on multiple levels and in multiple ways.

 

I'd also add that the so called "impersonal" is also the so called "personal", thus such names do not really know that which is beyond names and beyond mind the namer -- or such powers which can not contain Mystery with same.

 

*Note: "true desire" is to me also pointed to in the John Wu translation of the TTC. Chapter 21 as the,

"unfailing Sincerity"

Edited June 14, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Or perhapas impersonal benevolent indifference is a better fit?

That's three words all together there. Now you have me confused.

[Marblehead]

"unfailing Sincerity"

Beautiful concept.

[gatito]

That's three words all together there. Now you have me confused.

 

Sorry about that MH, I didn't intend to do that but as Kajenx may be discovering it seems impossible to convey this stuff properly except in person.

 

Perhaps what I've said will make more sense to him?

 

Or perhaps not?

 

We'll just have to wait and see what, if anything, he has to say in response to my question.

[3bob]

perhaps impartial over indifferent, yet even the impartial is partial to all

[gatito]

perhaps impartial over indifferent, yet even the impartial is partial to all

 

Perhaps

[3bob]

I'd say there is not a perhaps in Om... yet that could be argued intellectually

Edited June 14, 2014 by 3bob

[gatito]

Perhaps there's a perhaps in everything that can be spoken and perhaps a belief that Aum's an intellectual realisation is one of the absolute barriers to that realisation for some people?

[3bob]

Perhaps there's a perhaps in everything that can be spoken and perhaps a belief that Aum's an intellectual realisation is one of the absolute barriers to that realisation for some people?

 

uh, Om, hmm, we could go on and on...

Edited June 14, 2014 by 3bob

[gatito]

uh, Om, hmm, we could go on and on...

 

Perhaps...

 

Perhaps not.

[Kajenx]

Benevolent indifference sounds perfect. There is no motivation or reason to have aversion towards anything, so it's benevolent. But that benevolence is not moral or reasoned, it's just the result of indifference. The indifference isn't apathy, though, just the truest meaning of the word. Everything is equally satisfying.

 

I've been trying to understand if it's impersonal, but I'm not sure I understand what that means. I've overthought the idea of anatta over the last few months so it's almost meaningless at this point. The state has an immersive quality, which could be called "non-dual" but that might be too subtle.

 

I tried to look up "the state of wu" but google failed me. Any references/descriptions?

[zanshin]

I don't know. It's all good. Not up to me and I really mean that, except that I don't know what you're talking about, so yeah, unless it isn't.

[C T]

If im not mistaken, 'Wu' refers to the state of the absolute. But MH can correct me on this.

[Kajenx]

My take,

 

"Perfection" (which can be somewhat of a tricky word) can spontaneously move through all emotional aspects of mind via its purity, thus emotion is not removed per-se but can be aligned and purified as a matrix for that perfection to be manifested to the degree which a matrix can be worked through and maintained. (working on cosmic and micro-cosmic scales)

 

A "Buddha" (who btw. is not limited in any way to just Buddhism) is acting like such a matrix and knows it and desires it which is part of the true desire* which in this world often covered over by 10,000 permutated desires that can act to block it if or when we forget dharma's or spiritual laws that work on multiple levels and in multiple ways.

 

I'd also add that the so called "impersonal" is also the so called "personal", thus such names do not really know that which is beyond names and beyond mind the namer -- or such powers which can not contain Mystery with same.

 

*Note: "true desire" is to me also pointed to in the John Wu translation of the TTC. Chapter 21 as the,

"unfailing Sincerity"

 

I never replied to this, but I think this may point to the same thing. Maybe one person's emotionlessness is another persons emotional perfection and another person's emotional matrix (filter?). I tend to look at things in a very experiential sort of way, so I try to look for the most descriptive words I can. To me, this state feels like it's free from emotions - but I can also see the emotions manifesting in a physical non-emotional way. These physical remnants tend to fade completely if the state is maintained for a longer period of time, since there's no more emotional/mental fuel for the contractions. At that point it becomes very stable and effortless in a self-perpetuating way. That effortless quality is what gives me hope that it could become a baseline.

 

Actually, this brings to mind something else I haven't mentioned. There is another state that I might call a "perfect inner world" which is basically complete absorption into universal bliss/love - or a complete attention to a contracted heart center that is read as positive. This state is very nice, but it's still inferior to the "outer world" (in my subjective opinion). Luckily, it tends to make the transition very easy, since it loosens the heart center and fades out into the emotionless state fairly quickly if I don't hold on to it. It's also self-perpetuating, but when I was aiming for it in practice it ended up turning into a kind of clinging because I was looking for an emotional change. The emotionless state seems to be much more directly linked to "letting go", so it's difficult to form anything to cling to. I was, however, clinging to the sensory effects which caused a bit of a delay in my progress over the past few weeks. The original post probably puts too much emphasis on control - moving into the senses intentionally. I didn't realize that it was the abdication of control that allowed it to happen naturally.

 

My method at this point - if it could be called a method - is to "just enjoy the current moment for as long as it lasts." It's kind of stupidly simple, but that's all there is to it. Maybe that's why it's so hard, haha.

[Marblehead]

If im not mistaken, 'Wu' refers to the state of the absolute. But MH can correct me on this.

No correction needed. The word "absolute" speaks well to that concept. And that is why I have said that I am very rarely totally in the state of "wu".

[3bob]

I never replied to this, but I think this may point to the same thing. Maybe one person's emotionlessness is another persons emotional perfection and another person's emotional matrix (filter?). I tend to look at things in a very experiential sort of way, so I try to look for the most descriptive words I can. To me, this state feels like it's free from emotions - but I can also see the emotions manifesting in a physical non-emotional way. These physical remnants tend to fade completely if the state is maintained for a longer period of time, since there's no more emotional/mental fuel for the contractions. At that point it becomes very stable and effortless in a self-perpetuating way. That effortless quality is what gives me hope that it could become a baseline.

 

Actually, this brings to mind something else I haven't mentioned. There is another state that I might call a "perfect inner world" which is basically complete absorption into universal bliss/love - or a complete attention to a contracted heart center that is read as positive. This state is very nice, but it's still inferior to the "outer world" (in my subjective opinion). Luckily, it tends to make the transition very easy, since it loosens the heart center and fades out into the emotionless state fairly quickly if I don't hold on to it. It's also self-perpetuating, but when I was aiming for it in practice it ended up turning into a kind of clinging because I was looking for an emotional change. The emotionless state seems to be much more directly linked to "letting go", so it's difficult to form anything to cling to. I was, however, clinging to the sensory effects which caused a bit of a delay in my progress over the past few weeks. The original post probably puts too much emphasis on control - moving into the senses intentionally. I didn't realize that it was the abdication of control that allowed it to happen naturally.

 

My method at this point - if it could be called a method - is to "just enjoy the current moment for as long as it lasts." It's kind of stupidly simple, but that's all there is to it. Maybe that's why it's so hard, haha.

 

Who is the "I" doing all this stuff? An insightful, double-take like saying of, "Nirvana truly realized is Samsara properly understood" may give us another handle towards who this "I" is via some word changes such as, 'Enlightenment truly realized includes emotion properly understood'... thus emotion is not negated per-se, (nor is samsara) which imo is supported by what the "four fold negation" is trying to get across. But don't take my word for it, besides I'm into Vedanta.

Edited June 16, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

But don't take my word for it, besides I'm into Vedanta.

Hehehe. Gave me a chuckle. Okay, I won't take your word for it. (Or anyone else's either.)

[Kajenx]

@3bob: I've run into that kind of quote/idea a lot around the internet. Consider this, the state/mind-frame I'm referring to is arrived at through complete acceptance. Wouldn't a visceral realization of anatta solidify this understanding so acceptance became automatic and effortless? If so, I can only assume the result would be this same emotionless mind-frame. I have no idea what a realization of anatta is supposed to look like though. Do they talk about "self" at all in Taoism? I've never seen it talked about how buddhism does. It seems like anatta might be more of an abstract concept than a direct insight everyone would describe the same way - comparing it to other mystical traditions.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Kajenx