Looking Into New Practices For Mental Health, Enlightenment and then perhaps Immortality ;) (in woteva order) (Formerly: Taoist Systems of Practice)

[silent thunder]

All paths lead to Source...

[Antares]

There're a LOT of teachers out there. There're a LOT of systems, books, individuals purporting to be 'masters', saying they have the 'answers' etc. Only following/reading/listening to 'authentic lineage' sources, and dismissing all non 'authentic lineage' sources, helps to limit the sheer volume of sources to investigate, making it easier to sort through all of these sources.

 

I am not sure I've got all sense of your post but we are on the Taoist board. It' up to you why you are here. If you are getting me right of course. Yes, there are loads of teachers out there and you are free to choose.

 

But if read Taoist scriptures very carefully, Wuzhen Pian for instance, you will realize that methods akin to Ramana Maharshi were considered as Yin methods which lead to the first level of achievement which is called "Ghost Immortal". It has not been considered as right spiritual achievement in Taoism. That' why I am saying you have to study authentic scriptures but not New Agey literature. RM' s method is very similar to late Chan practices which have been under the critics by authentic teachers for centuries. Many people are so lazy to study Tradition properly but I understand why. It is because people rely on TV, popular books and so on.

[Antares]

All paths lead to Source...

No, many paths lead to Death unfortunately. For example, the achievement of Ghost immortality is considered to be even worse than normal death as person who would achieve this can't be reborn and can't get physical body to get chance to practice again. It is because this person wasted Ming (Yang essence) practicing wrong methods (Yin methods). Taoist scriptures warn about these mistakes on the Path. That' why not all paths lead to immortality and even health. As I said before neidan method can't be realized by any single person on his/her own and can be only transmited. This is neither Buddism, nor Yoga, nor Chan, nor any other tradition. I believe it is mistake to compare these teachings with alchemical taoism.

 

May be there are some similarites regarding achievments in authentic tantric methods but there is all the same as in Taoism concerning transmission and you can't get it from a book. Tradition is never transmited throughout books. If you feel your heart promts you to choose tantra then you have to find a teacher and get transmission. But believe me it' very dificult path. I know a very advanced tantra teacher within authentic Indian tantra lineage and according to his words it' very dificult path for westerners and very dificult to succed in it. This is not just to seat in meditation like RM. Who knows what realization he attained

Edited June 19, 2014 by Antares

[Friend]

All paths lead to Source...

All path can lead away from source.

All path have different distance to reach the source.

You can die on the path without ever reach the source.

[GrandmasterP]

Thing is though that Tao infuses ( 'is') everything so it's in the New Agey stuff as much as ever it is in any kind of Taoism.

Many a time these other paths are saying exactly the same sorts of things that we are but just using different labels to describe what is much the same sort of thing.

If we begin saying 'we' are right but 'they' are wrong we're not too far away then from our fundamentalist chums.

The place you find fun in fundamentalism is in those first three letters of the word and seldom anywhere else.

There was a guy on here recently banging on about how 'his' Taoism was the only real Taoism and by implication, anybody else's Taoism was BS.

Quite rightly IMO he was given a vacation by the mods.

There are many paths up that old mountain.

Edited June 19, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[allinone]

. deletd, just discovered that i was wrong

Edited June 21, 2014 by allinone

[allinone]

deleted. im stupid.

Edited June 21, 2014 by allinone

[joeblast]

I think such problems are as much about studying out of a book (or video) then the system itself. Without a live teacher, little deviations become big ones. In a single class a live teacher would simply correct a problem, but without a teacher we get things wrong and they become ingrained. Plus if you have 100's or 1,000's learning from a book, its inevitable some will have bad experiences, even if the practice is drinking a glass of water.

 

M. Chia's practices are not all that far from what I've seen in other authentic (imo) systems. People who've trained with him live have gone far. But lack of student/teacher feedback may well make his and any teaching problematic.

The single biggest failure of chia's presentation is that there is not even close to a significant enough emphasis on the fundamentals or how long/how deep one should be immersed in them before moving on to more advanced concepts. You're introduced to things like bringing in universal qi with barely the slightest bit of context and without a crapload of practice in the fundamentals, you have no basis to even differentiate such signals amidst the noise. You get blasted with information that as a beginner you have no idea the depth it contains and wind up moving on to move before you've even grasped the essence of the simple practices. I got good results out of the simple, basic stuff back years ago. In its proper context, good stuff.

 

So Antares...when you speak of "authentic" things - the internal alchemy path is rather tricky to navigate, of course - but the basic fundamentals, where every single one of us should begin, has much in common with a great many other paths. It can even provide a good context for one's choice of eventual practice-path from a more advanced standpoint.

[Satya]

Interests:

 

Yoga, Tantra, Kriya Yoga, Meditation, Breathing, Self Inquiry, Advaita Vedanta, Kabbalah, Sufism, Gnosis, Truth, Perennial Philosophy/Perennial Technique, Comparative Religion/Tradition, Universality, Mental Health, Scientific Enquiry, Psychology, Psychotherapy, Neuroscience, Energy Work, Recent interest in Neidan, Taoist Internal Alchemy.

 

Too many. You are just overwhelmed by the Internet.

 

Keep it simple. Pick one method and do it mindfully for 3 decades. Come back here and see if you feel like to post again!

 

Note: Finding the right method is going to be your biggest challenge. My personal advice is to learn from someone who has learnt following the traditional way (transmission or lineage) not from scam artists (many) and Qigong masters.

 

Just to come back to this.

 

Those are interests, not everything that I intend to practice, and not due to being overwhelmed by the internet (though, of course, comparatively, 300 years ago or so, then, if you were interested in this kinda stuff, then, your path would have been more rigidly set based on geographic location (pros and cons I'm sure).

 

I'm interested in wisdom traditions, and energetic work as a whole, and, especially how they all fit together; just to be clear, this doesn't mean that I'm trying to do all of them. Part of this interest is of a research/academic nature.

 

Of course, doing one method solidly is great (generally), IF you can find a good one. However, in my experience, even when practising one method diligently, I still have problems with anxiety/OCD. This is the only reason why I stopped doing Kriya Yoga, and then AYP. And ties in to my other posted queries: http://thetaobums.com/topic/34642-psychological-issues-and-spiritual-practices-shouldnt-practices-trump-therapymedication/

 

Whatever I end up sticking with, it will be in combination with some kind of CBT/ERP, as, that is, so far, the only thing that has worked.

[johndoe2012]

Anxiety can be a really deep issue.

 

It can be caused by the life you are living, like are you really doing what you like or are you conforming to other people's expectations?

 

Then there are the primal energies being suppressed;rage, despair, terror.

 

This can also cause anxiety because the life force is pushing you but you unconsciously are holding back.

 

CBT/ERP is good in the sense you are facing your issues rather than running away.

Edited July 25, 2014 by chris d

[Satya]

CBT/ERP is good in the sense you are facing your issues rather than running away.

 

Yes. All healing, meditation, energy work, ANYTHING, all of these things, if they end up being effective will just enable you to face these issues, reducing either the stress response itself or the reactivity to it, helping you to operate in a "normal" way, compared to how other people would act; correcting whatever personal irrational bias we have. We all have them but some, by their nature, result in affecting day to day activities and thus make it difficult to function. For example: fear of contamination from door knobs Vs fear of elephants (or any *THING* in this example that you're not likely to come across where you live); the former will severely impair functioning, where as the latter will not. They're both equally irrational, and both evoke the same degree of discomfort/anxiety/fear, but, the content of one is more impairing.

 

CBT deals with the issues head on, and, in a way is dealing directly with your Karma. It involves doing/examining and thus habituating to whatever it is that is your irrational bias.

 

In a way, everything else is a secondary approach; CBT, together with hard core self-inquiry Truth talk with yourself, are the only direct approaches. As a result, they're not easy, but, if done, they're the most effective (IMO AND, my experience so far).

 

Some more versed/experienced in the energy work side of things may disagree, but, this is my experience so far.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think that Ya Mu has pretty much nailed it here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/35684-proper-taoist-grounding-method/

 

[steve]

Hello,

 

I am just wondering (if they exist at all) what the specific systems of practice were in Taoism and if there are any specific resources from which to learn them, books or websites that illustrate/explain the practices.

 

I have done some searches but not come up with anything conclusive.

 

I am aware of the existence of Neidan, Qigong, Tai Chi (I have only practices Tai Chi), but am wondering what the specifics are of such practices.

 

Basically, I am looking into adopting a new practice or set of practices and am up for hearing any/all recommendations for books, websites, systems, or, possibly teachers/schools.

 

You can review my previous readings/practices on the lobby. I acknowledge the effectiveness of non-dual teachings, self enquiry (Mooji, Adyashanti, Gangaji, Jeff Foster, Nisargadatta, Ramana), the direct pointing, realising what is always present, but, anxiety problems cause a lot of reactivity for me that is hard to cut through. So, I am hoping/thinking that, in addition to non-dual teachings, of starting a practice (meditation, energy work, etc) where I can hopefully cut through some of the internal noise/dissolve some of the conditioning, or re-wire my brain through a practice and the phenomena known as neuroplasticity, so I can get to a place of abiding silence and I can go deeper with my realisation and self inquiry, or simply just get to a place where I am anxiety free and happy.

 

I am also interested in Chinese/Taoist Healing (mainly for mental health [which still has a physical cause in the brain, so should be no different from 'physical health' healing]).

 

I hope I am posting in the right place.

 

Best Wishes

 

You seem to be a very sincere and dedicated practitioner.

From looking at your long list of interests, I suspect that you have dabbled with a variety of approaches and systems.

I don't think looking for yet another approach is the answer.

 

Many of the things you've already looked at and mentioned are beautiful and effective systems.

What tends to keep us from finding that peace we seek is the very seeking itself.

You already have everything you need, to be what and where you want to be.

It's more a process of letting go than adding or becoming.

 

Rather than seek a new system, why not try something a bit different?

Try just being...

Simply try to cultivate awareness in every waking (and sleeping) moment.

Pay attention to everything around you and inside of you - feelings, emotions, sensations, relationships, behaviors, how you react to the things in your life. Really, really close attention - take it all in. No analysis or intentional modification in the beginning, just open, unobscured attention. When things challenge you, pay attention, feel it fully, in you mind, body, emotions.... And when it feels difficult, allow it to be as it is, make room for it, cultivate a feeling of spaciousness for everything and everyone in your life.

And when things excite you and make you feel great, do the same exact thing. Don't hold on, just watch, make space, allow it come fully, and allow it go completely.

 

Just be which every little thing that comes up.

Practice that for a while and see if it takes you anywhere.

 

That's my suggestion, FWIW.

 

With love,