Looking Into New Practices For Mental Health, Enlightenment and then perhaps Immortality ;) (in woteva order) (Formerly: Taoist Systems of Practice)

[Jox]

For what goal? There are LOADS of "fantastic" exercises disclosed in thousands of books. Today they feel "fantastic" after doing this and that and what about tomorrow, after tomorrow, week, month, year, 10, 100? How you will bw fantastic in 100 years, man?

 

I click specially for you. Enjoy it

 

And about you after 100?

[Aetherous]

i am not from Wu Lu Pai. I am more in YuXianPai (school of meeting immortals) at the moment.

 

You guys should come to the US!

[Antares]

And about you after 100?

 

This is only the chance to have chance © Carlos Castaneda. What is the chance of those people who practice reading the books of M. Chia? Let' think about this. We do "internal sounds", for instance, as well but it has certain goal in accordance with other practices, which have its own goal in its turn. But if you do them separately and without real knowledge why you do this and that you might do something in very wrong way what might give unpleasant side effects. In this case with anxiety it seems to me a head is not relaxed and 12 main channels are not opened up. Also it could be wrong motions for this goal. What are the chances to get "immortality" in this case? I did not mention other main channels. Does [bookish] qigong work with it? Who invented these exercises, what an author achieved himself?

 

As for chances the teacher says that one can receive full transmission only when he/she has the fate. Here is no any guaranty at all. But one should practice diligently in order to succeed on the path to Dao. It means: right method, right people, right place, right approach and right intention. let' agree there are more chances to get all what is mentioned in the title of this thread. But when someone does not have even right initial method to empty a head from stagnant qi what are the chances?

[Antares]

You guys should come to the US!

 

There is instructor in Canada btw. It's better to practice it in a group in my experience. But the doors are always open. I do not know what to offer you. May be Misha Lomax in the US? He seems to be cool guy IMHO But sitting meditations are prohibited in the beginning in our schools. It creates yin and might be harmful for the beginner. It might be one of the reasons for the anxiety issue btw.

 

http://all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.htmlhttp://all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.html

Edited May 10, 2014 by Antares

[Jetsun]

Jetsun,

 

It was interesting that you quit your job after the vortex healing seminar.

 

I wonder if the blockages in the heart is what keeps one from pursuing our passion?

 

What's your view on this?

 

I think all sorts of blockages can stop you from following your passion, especially those around fear, so it could be related to the root chakra area as much as anything else. In terms of the heart with Vortex it is more about going into the heart to wake up and then if you do wake up I have heard that it can make you realise that nearly all of your previous motivations derived from conditioning and aren't much to do with you at all. I heard about one doctor who woke up was bed ridden for six months because he didn't have the motivation any more to do anything, as the new motivation for life from a deeper place hadn't emerged yet. So I think its hard to predict what removing some of these blockages will do

[Aetherous]

There is instructor in Canada btw. It's better to practice it in a group in my experience. But the doors are always open. I do not know what to offer you. May be Misha Lomax in the US? He seems to be cool guy IMHO But sitting meditations are prohibited in the beginning in our schools. It creates yin and might be harmful for the beginner. It might be one of the reasons for the anxiety issue btw.

 

http://all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.htmlhttp://all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.html

 

Yes, I was in contact with the instructor in Canada...I think he got banned from the forum. It probably wouldn't have worked out for me personally, since he said that he does preliminary exercises for about 6 months with constant supervision, and then he isn't authorized to initiate anyone and would have to wait for someone from Russia to visit. So basically you have to live close to where he is or be capable of traveling often.

 

I was also in contact with someone who speaks English from the WuLiuPai school, asking them to perhaps come do seminars in America...but communications died out quickly for some reason.

 

The ideas I've read on the all-dao site (regarding jiuyangshengong, for instance) really interest me. Maybe some day the opportunity to learn will open up.

[Antares]

Yes, it's better to do it under constant supervision and initial stage of the qigong practice is about 6-12 months. Also you can get first initial method of YuXianPai school for kidneys which is half way alchemy practice. It' up to you how often you would be able to come to Russia. They hold summer intensive seminars for 7 days which cover a lot of practices including baduanjin and yijingjin plus alchemy methods of YuXianPai plus jiuyangshengong. This stuff is already very powerful stuff. So you could visit Canadian instructor and then attend one of the 3-7 days seminars which are held quite often. Some instructors come from Siberia, for example. This solution is not the best one but also you can go to China with them if you are committed in it. This would not be cheap for you but this is not cheap even in China for local Taoists. And may be even more expensive. they position is that dedicated practitioner should have active life position and is supposed to earn enough money. Taoisim is "yang" teaching. It is far not as it is Buddhism or Yoga.

[Jox]

i am not from Wu Lu Pai. I am more in YuXianPai ...

 

What are main differences beetwen this two schools?

[Antares]

Wu Lu Pai is very closed and very hard to practice IN LIFE. It maintains strictly traditional approach which is based on the relation teacher - student. Every student must practice in a group very diligently. Must practice every day and attend all classes. Far not for everyone but it' fastest path in alchemy. First stage in it is spontaneous yangshengong. (far not qigong as it openes up preheaven channels).

 

YuXianPai is less strict and more open for everyone. Less responsibilities and can be practiced apart from a group but it would be more powerful when practiced in a group. More personal freedom. Based on initial methods of cleansing organs beginning from kidneys. It works with preheaven channels as well and is not qigong. On second stage practitioner would replenish prenatal qi.

 

In both of them a person must be initiated.

[damdao]

Wu Lu Pai is very closed and very hard to practice IN LIFE. It maintains strictly traditional approach which is based on the relation teacher - student. Every student must practice in a group very diligently. Must practice every day and attend all classes. Far not for everyone but it' fastest path in alchemy. First stage in it is spontaneous yangshengong. (far not qigong as it openes up preheaven channels).

 

YuXianPai is less strict and more open for everyone. Less responsibilities and can be practiced apart from a group but it would be more powerful when practiced in a group. More personal freedom. Based on initial methods of cleansing organs beginning from kidneys. It works with preheaven channels as well and is not qigong. On second stage practitioner would replenish prenatal qi.

 

In both of them a person must be initiated.

I was wondering if this two lineages are equally effective and if their goals are the same. And how is that your school can practice both? Are complementary paths, or perhaps the patriarchs are close?

[Antares]

I was wondering if this two lineages are equally effective and if their goals are the same. And how is that your school can practice both? Are complementary paths, or perhaps the patriarchs are close?

 

I am not sure yet honestly but they say that both of them are effective because they are schools of "internal alchemy". But Wu Lu Pai is more effective - it' like a rocket but it' only for very serious people. Wu Lu Pai begins from the Ming restoration and its path is very suitable for people living in society and I believe that YuXianPai path was more for people who adhered monastic path and they began from Xing methods. Nowadays YuXianPai begins from Xing methods as well but Xing and Ming are not something separate. In general in WuLu method is more "straight" but difficult to maintain practice so it' far not for everyone. Even for people who live in Russia and CIS. It' entirely depends on who you are yourself. Some people have very good effects from Juiyangshengong (Wu Lu' initial method) even in the very beginning, some people get it later. These schools are interrelated and many students practice both schools bc of it alchemical engine. Juiyangshengong is practiced by the people from YuXian school and WuLu' people practice methods from Yuxian school to cleanse organs and in order to bring balance to the mind and body. Even these initial methods are worth to practice till the end of life. Even only Juiyangshengong is very powerful method bc it works with prenatal channels. The effect is not in kind of visions or what else people can expect but in balancing mind and body and it can take couple of years to realize that you have changed. We have to realize the difference between qigong methods and alchemical ones. But we practice qigong as well in both schools for the purpose to harmonize mind to prepare for the alchemical methods. In June they hold intensive seminar near S-Petersburg where there will be a lot of mentioned practices and also there will be one in China. Not many instructors speak English there as they learn Chinese. So I am not sure how they can deal with English speakers. If there are people who interested I can ask them as I am in Russia now and going to see them often.

[johndoe2012]

Satya,

 

Regarding mental health I have made some entrainments - MP3s - you can play and get some blockages cleared.

 

http://insightguide.net/entrainments/

 

maybe you'll find it useful.

[Jox]

For what goal?

 

Havent you read the PDF file on inner smile ...

 

Have you ever tried the inner smile?

Edited May 27, 2014 by Jox

[Antares]

Havent you read the PDF file on inner smile ...

 

Have you ever tried the inner smile?

 

I did not. I do not trust practices pointed out in doubtful sources. What is the lineage of Mantek Chia? What school does he belong to? What is the next level after his MCO practice? Who got results? But I heard about many people who got bad side effects having practiced his practices. At this time this is my policy to practice authentic stuff. Why to waste time for something doubtful?

[Jox]

I did not. I do not trust practices pointed out in doubtful sources. What is the lineage of Mantek Chia? What school does he belong to? What is the next level after his MCO practice? Who got results? But I heard about many people who got bad side effects having practiced his practices. At this time this is my policy to practice authentic stuff. Why to waste time for something doubtful?

 

I see you havent read ... Smiley to you ...

[johndoe2012]

Satya,

 

I updated the page with two more entrainments

 

http://insightguide.net/entrainments/

 

Clearing the fight or flight response

 

and

 

clearing the amygdala

 

two good ones for people with anxiety.

[Antares]

I see you havent read ... Smiley to you ...

 

But why you think I have to read it? There are loads of information in books, booklets and websites. I do not mind you read it, that' fine.

 

I have few methods to practice and I consider few more to be engaged and I am struggling to find time for all this stuff honestly.

 

I only advise to be careful with doubtful sources and not to practice it on your own. Even meditation which people consider to be very useful for enlightenment.

 

I give you simple example. I visited few seminars on qigong and alchemy last few months and I tought I got everything clear and that I did everything right. But every time I realized that it was coming only from my considerations and in general these methods never have been disclosed in popular literature or video. People always consider something to be right out of their considerations which are often limited. Even to practise some forms of qigong right we need to have some standards how it must be practiced right. I do not even consider how far certain method is authentic and how it can really help.

 

I did read Mantek Chia books few years ago and I tried something out of it. But now I have authentic methods and I can say it has nothing even similar with Mantek's stuff. Today I stumbled upon a review on the web where a man shared his experience of one year training in school of qigong similar to M. Chia and how he got deviations out of this practice (which is very popular in mainstream - seated meditaion) and then he found authentic school and method and felt much better after few months of practice and even it was proved by a medical check he did.

 

There are many subtlities in practices which we might be not aware of and there are very much of distinctions in techniques which are coming from genuine Chinese masters. There is difference between qigong and alchemical methods - channels which they effect and the way how it is done. That' why transmission is very crucial factor here. Such practices are not disclosed in books and they would not work well without transmission. It's better to find internal MA master within authentic lineage. There might be a few alchemical methods which might give you a lot of benefits. Sorry if I am wrong in grammar

Edited June 15, 2014 by Antares

[thelerner]

I think such problems are as much about studying out of a book (or video) then the system itself. Without a live teacher, little deviations become big ones. In a single class a live teacher would simply correct a problem, but without a teacher we get things wrong and they become ingrained. Plus if you have 100's or 1,000's learning from a book, its inevitable some will have bad experiences, even if the practice is drinking a glass of water.

 

M. Chia's practices are not all that far from what I've seen in other authentic (imo) systems. People who've trained with him live have gone far. But lack of student/teacher feedback may well make his and any teaching problematic.

[Jox]

But why you think I have to read it? There are loads of information in books, booklets and websites. I do not mind you read it, that' fine.

 

I have few methods to practice and I consider few more to be engaged and I am struggling to find time for all this stuff honestly.

 

I only advise to be careful with doubtful sources and not to practice it on your own. Even meditation which people consider to be very useful for enlightenment.

 

I give you simple example. I visited few seminars on qigong and alchemy last few months and I tought I got everything clear and that I did everything right. But every time I realized that it was coming only from my considerations and in general these methods never have been disclosed in popular literature or video. People always consider something to be right out of their considerations which are often limited. Even to practise some forms of qigong right we need to have some standards how it must be practiced right. I do not even consider how far certain method is authentic and how it can really help.

 

I did read Mantek Chia books few years ago and I tried something out of it. But now I have authentic methods and I can say it has nothing even similar with Mantek's stuff. Today I stumbled upon a review on the web where a man shared his experience of one year training in school of qigong similar to M. Chia and how he got deviations out of this practice (which is very popular in mainstream - seated meditaion) and then he found authentic school and method and felt much better after few months of practice and even it was proved by a medical check he did.

 

There are many subtlities in practices which we might be not aware of and there are very much of distinctions in techniques which are coming from genuine Chinese masters. There is difference between qigong and alchemical methods - channels which they effect and the way how it is done. That' why transmission is very crucial factor here. Such practices are not disclosed in books and they would not work well without transmission. It's better to find internal MA master within authentic lineage. There might be a few alchemical methods which might give you a lot of benefits. Sorry if I am wrong in grammar

 

It was not my intetion to speak about MC, but about The inner smile as the taoist method which is described in the link ... no more no less ...

 

Years ago I practiced "authentic" martial art. Theacher said to us: "All you practiced till now had been wrong" ... We all wanted to get this authenthic knowledge ... to get complete stuff was set far, far away in to the future ... and there were expensive lessons, membership fees ... etc ...

 

Then I watched those faces in that school ... SiFu toook away their souls ... they lost their freedom ...

I did not want to loose it too ... so I left ... Was it authenthic? No! ... maybe a little different ... It was a construct to make control over the students, isolate them ... and take away their money on the long run ... But that was just my experience ... may not be yours too ... or may be ... who knows ...

Edited June 15, 2014 by Jox

[silent thunder]

It was not my intetion to speak about MC, but about The inner smile as the taoist method which is described in the link ... no more no less ...

 

Years ago I practiced "authentic" martial art. Theacher said to us: "All you practiced till now had been wrong" ... We all wanted to get this authenthic knowledge ... to get complete stuff was set far, far away in to the future ... and there were expensive lessons, membership fees ... etc ...

 

Then I watched those faces in that school ... SiFu toook away their souls ... they lost their freedom ...

I did not want to loose it too ... so I left ... Was it authenthic? No! ... maybe a little different ... It was a construct to make control over the students, isolate them ... and take away their money on the long run ... But that was just my experience ... may not be yours too ... or may be ... who knows ...

My first exposure to Martial Arts was very similar, odd controlling behavior by the teachers, idol worship of the founder of the school, isolationist tactics and many many hinted at 'secret teachings and high level techniques' that required high fees... I stuck around for about a year before it was apparent that I needed to find a new source. One that resonated love not money.

[Antares]

It was not my intetion to speak about MC, but about The inner smile as the taoist method which is described in the link ... no more no less ...

 

OK, but I can't make it out who told you that it is "taoist method"? Any link to the authentic text or school? You can't seem to realize the main issue here - there is NO system, NO people who got realization in this system, NO authentic teacher, NO authentic methods which were mentioned in taoist scriptures. There are loads of methods that are just made up by people who have no connection to the authentic taoist methods. How it leads to any solid results?

I already said before that in authentic schools there are fixed stages and fixed methods in practice. Nothing like "internal smile" or in it. This is something from psychotherapy might be I dont know

[silent thunder]

I've always contended there is only one system.

The human system.

 

It requires no teacher, no rulebook to access, no initiation, no secret handshake and no one is omitted, even if they wanted to be...

The idea of schools and lineage is just that, an idea, it's not real.

 

Be aware, learn, more importantly... unlearn.

 

just be...

[Antares]

I've always contended there is only one system.

The human system.

 

It requires no teacher, no rulebook to access, no initiation, no secret handshake and no one is omitted, even if they wanted to be...

The idea of schools and lineage is just that, an idea, it's not real.

 

Be aware, learn, more importantly... unlearn.

 

just be...

 

I see. But we have to always remember that spiritual development is covered by thousands of misconceptions. But not that many people have reached it in their own lifes. Can you build your own atomic power station or your own cosmic shuttle and fly to the Orion on it? Why you think that Alchemy is anything easier? There are tons of books about "spiritual " methods but this is only human thoughts on the subject. I would advise to read authentic literature on the Taoism, Wuzhen Pian for example. Genuine Taoist Tradition is based on the theory of 5 elements and I ching - The book of Changes.

 

Authentic Taoist methods are based on the principle of the "heart to heart " transmission. In general if we talk about development there are two main methods of it: qigong - the method of onward perfection and neidan - the method of reverse perfection.

 

http://all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html

 

Practices akin to M. Chia's stuff are qigong only. People who teach qigong and meditations teach qigong only but they might call latter as "internal alchemy". Everything what uses breath, vizualization and meditation is qigong only and it can not help much in spiritual realization and it is even considered to be harmful even if it would give some unusual effects. In general alchemical practices work with different channels and breath and vizualization are never used in it. We can only get transmission in order to practice right and I believe that only practices of this kind can lead to the real health and enlightenment. All these stages are fixed and have certain exact achievements what they call as four stages of immortallity.

 

But there are few schools within LongmenPai school which began to use meditations and loads of onward methods. Unfortunately I can't comment it but you have to ask them if they teach the methods which nourish Ming - the primordial Essense of a body. There are many schools which use onward methods but calling it "internal alchemy". There are hundreds of secondary shools even in China and many teachers say that they teach neidan and belong to a authentic school. But authentic methods are very very rare to find even in China. The head of our center Dmitry Artemyev was lucky to meet the authentic patriarch of WuLuiPai The Teacher of Single Yang in China after many years of search in China. We have hundreds of students in qigong, neidan and internal martial arts. So I just want to put it clear that the information I disclose here is coming from very authentic sources and is based on over 20 years research in our center. Please do not accept it as a wish to argue with somebody or insult someone.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Antares

[Antares]

I extended my previous post in order to add some more information

[Satya]

Example of a great sage, who woke up without belonging to a lineage or tradition, without having a teacher and without communicating with immortals, and who is, as far as I am aware, undisputed regarding the authenticity of his awakening:

Ramana Maharshi

 

I acknowledge that, as with learning anything, a teacher/master/guide can be incredibly beneficial, especially with systems that involve energy work, but, just wanted to highlight at least one example of a great Master who woke up all by himself. Really, it's all just a manifestation of One anyway, so, in the Non-Dual sense, an altar is as much Brahman/Tao as a worm is; in another way, Tao/Brahman/Life/God teaches us through multifarious different methods, channels, beings and manifestations. You can learn a lesson leading towards enlightenment from watching an animal. You can have an epiphany whilst listening to two people shouting in the street. A part of you can awaken from watching a film. You can wake up because of having a disease. So, every thing is/can be a teacher, if you listen; and, also, at the same there is no teacher/you/earth/masters/universe.

To Antares, with love: I don't know why exactly you favour tradition, lineage, etc, so much, even at the cost of writing off potentially useful practices (I don't know because you haven't told me), but, I'll make a guess based on how I used to think, and how I still do sometimes (verging on unconscious prejudices, re: anything seemingly 'new age'). There're a LOT of teachers out there. There're a LOT of systems, books, individuals purporting to be 'masters', saying they have the 'answers' etc. Only following/reading/listening to 'authentic lineage' sources, and dismissing all non 'authentic lineage' sources, helps to limit the sheer volume of sources to investigate, making it easier to sort through all of these sources.

As time is really our only resource, this isn't the worst approach to have in life, and means that you may save yourself from spending this resource on materials/people/teachers who are not very good. It's a sensible time saver.

However, as noted above, and in countless other examples, you can get bad teachers who say that they are 'authentic', that come from an 'authentic lineage'. When it comes to people and organisations, I don't think there are any absolutes, and, dismissing anything that isn't, according to your beliefs, from an 'authentic lineage', though it may seem like a good approach in general, limits the channels through which the Tao/God/Brahman can reach you/teach you.

Just a thought.