Relationships: help or hindrance of path

[juliank]

I wouldn't say this is true.

 

Most of the spiritual men I meet are retarded newage ***hats. Absolutely the most absurd, limp wristed, inane, people you can imagine.

 

I've only met a few serious students.

 

Most people in general (male and female) are just absurd, stupid, ignorant, horrible individuals.

 

I am not sure this is a men vs women thing, humanity (both male and female) is pretty ****ed up.

 

Just today I was speaking with a female co-worker and she pretty much repeated verbatim your characterizations of men she meets at spiritual retreats/centers/gatherings. She claims they are devoid of any masculine energy whatsoever which is why she doesnt date them. The funny thing is she herself is a walking cliche of that whole scene but even she recognizes that masculine void.

[Unlearner]

Well, in my situation, when I was younger I was rather opposed to being in any sort of intimate relationship. However, that also allowed me time to learn about maintaining general relationships with other people; the result of this is that I'm still with the first partner I've ever had (and I am her first as well), and we have a very strong relationship together. I would also add here that we became very close friends with each other before ever considering a relationship (I think we knew each other for about 6 years before we started dating), so we're both very familiar and very comfortable with each other, so there's a lot of mutual trust and understanding between us. Probably the two things I'd say has been the most helpful is good communication and not being self-centered.

 

From my perspective, with regards to being with a practicing versus non-practicing partner, I feel that it has to do more with openness and support between partners. Comparing the two of us, we are both very understanding and open-minded people. To begin with, we're already going against the grain in our respective families by crossing racial barriers (mixed European and Vietnamese). We certainly have our own opinions about certain things, but for the most part we can tend to be understanding of each other and can reach agreements quite easily on most topics, since we're both willing to give quite a bit. Whereas she tends to be more of pragmatic and logical sensibilities, I linger a bit more in the abstract and theoretical, which is what brought me to explore more into Taoism and Buddhism in the first place. While she does not follow this way, necessarily, we both enjoy discussing it and sharing our perspectives with each other. I think this has helped me a lot with reducing my ego and avoiding getting stuck in single-minded thinking (a significant problem with me before). Even though she doesn't practice with me, she still supports me with what I choose to do, which has definitely been good for me in a place that does not typically follow with such practices; after all, I'm still not perfectly able to deal with such things as having absolute confidence in practicing a system that no one else I know follows with me.

 

That being said, though, with regard to the original topic at hand, I would certainly say that this is also a question that I have been wondering about myself: is having such an intimate relationship with a single person hindering my development? In the ideal sense, I would say that focusing the majority of your love and care on one person would seem to go against this way. However, I also feel that it would be a mistake to end such a healthy relationship for such a reason. As I still remain within society as a laborer and try to maintain social connections, there are a great number of deviations from the ideal within my personality; I feel that the support my partner provides for me helps to compensate for that. In addition to this, as I mentioned before, it allows me to focus my mind caring for another besides myself. Even if it's one person, it's better than getting wrapped up with my own self and not showing kindness or compassion for anyone.

 

Still, this is definitely a topic that I have not come to a solid conclusion myself, so I'm also very interested in hearing what others have to say on the issue, so I will continue to observe.

[Cheshire Cat]

 

Oh, and men on the spiritual path fall under the opposite statistical scenario?.. So comforting to know. It's only women who get fucked up by choosing the spiritual path, or alternatively, the spiritual path is laid down just so as to fuck up only women. Well, we women have it made then. Exemplary specimens of mental, emotional and physical health is all we'll encounter in our endeavor to mate with a spiritually slanted male. Hooray.

 

I've never seen a man who was unable to betray his own mother for the sake of good sex... a so-called spiritual man may abandon his goals for the sacred yoni...

 

Women are generally more stable

Edited October 31, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[BaguaKicksAss]

Some folks say that the people whom you meet are a reflection of yourself....

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Some folks say that the people whom you meet are a reflection of yourself....

 

 

Yes, a specular reflection ... meaning the exact opposite

 

Even Lao-tzu observed those who cannot understand the Tao and he even described their behaviors...

[Nikolai1]

Maybe all these ideas that we need to remain undistracted / need to completed by opposing energies is irrelevant.

 

The video cat posted suggested that anyone can inspire in us loving kindness, whether we live with them, work with them, ride the bus with them...

 

Maybe this is the aim, to simply work with where we are. Single, or involved, both bring their challenges...

 

And then there are acts of God...here are the real words of the medieval mystic Blessed Angela of Foligno, talking about her spiritual growth.

 

 

 

In that time, and by God's will, there died my mother, who was a great hindrance to

me in following the way of God; my husband died likewise; and in a short time there also

died all my children. And because I had begun to follow the aforesaid way, and had prayed

God to rid me of them, I had great consolation of their deaths, although I also felt some

grief; wherefore, because God had shown me this grace, I imagined that my heart was in

the heart of God and His will and His heart in my heart.

[Sahaj Nath]

Juliank and C T,

 

Right on!

 

no need to repeat what the two of you have already articulated.

 

personally, i really like how easy and uncomplicated my external life is, given the complexity and weightiness of my inner world. been single for 7 years now. i really love doing whatever the hell i want whenever i want without having to check in with anyone. on a whim i can go to the mountains or river, or just unplug and be on private retreat right here in my own home. in my last serious relationship, i had to stop spending nights along the river because she couldn't understand it and believed that i must be seeing some other woman. even thinking about it right now makes my stomach tense up a little bit.

 

even on my laziest days, i spend more time in cultivation than most folks who work a full-time job. the freedom is priceless. and quite honestly, i've never experienced a high in a relationship that could compete with the joy of deep spiritual communion. my goal has never been bliss, but if ever i am in need of that comfort, the divine is easily accessible.

 

hermits and monastics are not living miserable lives. but so many people who are in relationships are unhappy or unsatisfied to great extents. some folks truly belong in family life, but many people just don't know what else to do. they're lost, and family life is just their port in the storm.

 

"The reason normal people got wives and kids and hobbies, whatever, that's because they don't got that one thing that hits them that hard and that true. I got music; you got this. The thing you think about all the time, the thing that keeps you south of normal. Yeah, makes us great, makes us the best. All we miss out on is everything else."

 

--House: Season 1. "DNR"

[三江源]

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Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[juliank]

Haha, reading through this thread makes me realize I agree with both perspectives and they both have their pros ans cons.

 

Intent and inner honesty always becomes the final arbiter on these matters. Are you single from a position of inner resolve, strength and love towards God and your fellow sentient beings or is your unattached romantic state simply an engorged egotism ? Only in your deepest silence can you answer this question. Are you with someone simply because you lack the inner strength and confidence to be in deep solitude and face yourself, your dilemmas and need the romantic validation of a finite being in order to mask some deep soul insecurity in yourself ? Only in your deepest inner silence can you answer this question.

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[mYTHmAKER]

I would just like to ask those people who have relationships and partners, to explain to me what advantages or learnings, etc they get or gotten from them.

It's like the Tao - The relationship that can be explained is not a relationship

[de_paradise]

de_paradise.. about the narrowing thing.. actually you would be experience your partner as a funnel for the divine.. you could move up and down the scale of what scale you wish to relate to the divine ie do you eant to find the divine in being woken up in the night by someone needing a pee, as well as finding the divine in the throes of sexual ecstacy? How about relating to having to clean the bath for divinity, who has left some divinity in the plug hole?

 

 

'why even bother?' sounds dangerously like depression to me.

Thanks Cat. I guess the choice is between relating to your partner as funnel for the divine, or just being free and relating to the world as divine. These two sound like pretty nice options, Think of the "why even bother" as if said by a comedian on stage with a funny expression, because here you have 2 cultivators that both would understand that a relationship might be equally as good as a non-reationship. And if you were to ask your typical Buddhist monastic, he would say, ooh you might find yourself spending your days very comfortable but lose track of the big picture. I've stayed away from relationships for 7 years due to kundalini expressing herself in weird ways in my body and mind, and then just grafted the "home leaver" type of point of view. But we bums are not practicing meditations 24/7, and the the world is full of diverse activities and distractions, relationships and hobbies, why should I hang onto the "no relationship" line as if it were a quite important basis to making progress. So I decided to see what other people's real experience had taught them.

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[suninmyeyes]

Mooji on this topic , just saw it and thought of the thread -- it is good !

Edited November 1, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[C T]

thank you, Sun... always enjoy Mooji's talks! _/\_

[Rara]

I have given this exact thing some consideration recently. I learned that yes, I can love all equally and impartially but still, my life then lacks one specific, stand-out relationship. I do enjoy having that one person (partner of 5 years) that I can share my experiences with, no matter what. Someone who will be so damn committed to making me happy, and vice versa. That may not appeal to all cultivators, but for me as an individual, it certainly helps me!

 

It is said that Chuang Tzu was married. Each to their own, as they say!

[C T]

I have given this exact thing some consideration recently. I learned that yes, I can love all equally and impartially but still, my life then lacks one specific, stand-out relationship. I do enjoy having that one person (partner of 5 years) that I can share my experiences with, no matter what. Someone who will be so damn committed to making me happy, and vice versa. That may not appeal to all cultivators, but for me as an individual, it certainly helps me!

 

It is said that Chuang Tzu was married. Each to their own, as they say!

 

A number of Tibetan Vajrayana masters and teachers are married. Many fellow practitioners i know prefer their guidance more. I think it widens their scope a little.

 

Therefore, i'd say it should be a non-issue for a 'real' cultivator.

Edited November 8, 2013 by C T

[de_paradise]

CT, were they married after they had reached a high level stage or all along their development?

[Simple_Jack]

CT, were they married after they had reached a high level stage or all along their development?

 

In the cases of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, Dudjom Rinpoche and many other Tibetans throughout history: it was all along their development (from a certain age) that they had one or more consorts as their wife.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have found that some practices and meditations can be greatly enhanced with two people who are strongly connected .

 

I think a relationship along the path would be a hindrance if it is an unhealthy relationship, otherwise it should help growth.

[Simple_Jack]

When written like that, sounds like bigamy. But I know what you mean to say.

 

Eh, different cultural standards. Polyandry still occurs in and around the Himalayas.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Moving to Tibet.....

[BaguaKicksAss]

I hear internet access is spotty...

 

That is OK, I would not have much free time for internet :>

[C T]

That is OK, I would not have much free time for internet :>

 

[C T]

CT, were they married after they had reached a high level stage or all along their development?

I remember when i met Dzogchen Rinpoche (in 96) he was already the head of Dzogchen Monastery, but single then. At that time he did not give much teachings in the West because of the language barrier. Then he got married, improved his English, and started to properly teach. To be honest, i think he was already 'highly realized' prior to getting married.

 

Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche whom i see as being highly realized had already been teaching and giving empowerments before he married Elizabeth Mattis Namgyel.

 

A most inspiring account i have heard was of Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro, one of the most revered Nyingma lineage holders. He became very ill when he was 56 years old. According to divinations and prophecies which foretold this, it was said that in order to remove the obstacles which will prevent him from living longer and continue teaching the Dharma, he is to get married, which he promptly did. His health returned immediately after that. He lived and taught for another 11 years.

 

 

 

As a side note, the funny thing is, among the Tibetan masters, they do not actually say anything at all about their realizations or levels. To them, its not very significant. When they are teaching they are very serious. Away from that setting, they are just very simple individuals with very profound auras. And most of them like nothing more than watching Looney Tunes or The 3 Stooges during teaching breaks. Seriously. Thats why they laugh so much.