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The feminization of the Western male?

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And most religions around the world have very strong female aspects -- the Madonna in Christianity, Kuan Yin in Buddhism, and Kali/Parvati in Hinduism. The diety of wisdom and warfare among the ancient greeks was a woman warrior, Athena.

 

That would be the Madonna in Catholicism, not Christianity.

 

Many of us have seen churches completely lose it when movies/books like the Da Vinci Code came out. There's a reason for that. There's a reason the Gospel of Mary (and other gospels) didn't make the cut.

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Interesting article from a couple of years ago.

 

While some of you I know will not agree with the entire article, I do think the main point he makes is hardly controversial: in today's media culture, men are bad, & women are good.

 

Any discussion of women's bad behaviors or their dark side is still fairly taboo in this culture. Women are almost always seen as victims if anything bad goes wrong.

 

And, of course, men are almost always the oppressors.

 

The problems in this world are never seen as co-created by both men and women. Only the men are to blame.

 

Why is this?

 

Are women incapable of making a difference in the world?

 

Or is it that they can only do good, and never bad?

 

 

 

 

Are Women Feminizing Men?

By Matthew Fitzgerald

 

 

On a Saturday evening in July 1995, a man named Rich Zubaty (author of Surviving the Feminization of America and founder of MENTOR, an organization advocating healthy masculinity) staged an impromptu rally in Harvard Square to protest the swelling tide of anti-male propaganda and the shaming of men in the media. Calling it "Take Back the Penis," Zubaty thought the rally would register only a minor blip on the sociological radar screen. But amid strident female shouts of "Lorena Bobbitt for Surgeon General," scores of frustrated men began to flock to his banner, all intent on demonstrating their intrinsic belief that "It's O.K. to be a man."

 

That was over 10 years ago. Have guys like Zubaty ushered in a decade of change? Not really. The average guy is still P-whipped by our culture, emasculated by the media, forced to cater to women, and pressured to act in a "politically correct" manner. TV, movies and advertisements increasingly portray men as simple-minded buffoons and as pawns to female "strength" and "competence."

 

At least books other than Zubaty's have appeared in the meantime -- The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Summers, No More Mr. Nice Guy! by psychologist Dr. Robert Glover and Being a Man in a Woman's World by Dennis Neder -- all arguing that contemporary men are being robbed of their essential masculinity. But unfortunately, far more influential are movies like Mel Gibson's cotton candy pander-fest What Women Want , in which macho ad exec Nick Marshall (Gibson) loses a promotion to a female coworker because he doesn't understand that "It's a woman's world out there," and he only can redeem himself by learning to think like a female.

 

So the problem remains. As women continue to usurp positions of power and influence, as our culture exponentially coddles and panders to the female gender, as "equal rights" come to mean a kick in the balls, our society has learned to deify women and demonize men. The message is clear: women are good, men are bad. And what men need, the females trumpet, is to be more like women -- to be thoroughly feminized.

 

Any typical television sitcom tells the sad story. On Everybody Loves Raymond , the perpetually henpecked Ray Barone is expected to endure his wife Debra's bitchiness, lack of sexual desire and anti-male barbs as she castigates every aspect of his behavior. When he wants to take off for a couple of hours to play golf, he's "not taking care of his family" (the symbolism of her denying him golf -- his putter and balls -- should be obvious); when he wants to relax in front of the TV after a hard day on the job, he "never talks to her or shares his feelings;" and when he wants sex, he's "constantly mauling her."

 

As every aspect of Ray's masculine nature is demeaned and belittled, he is portrayed as inferior to Debra, while she is lionized as a superior human being. If he does try to stand up for his male rights, she berates him mercilessly, usually threatening to withhold sex until he backs down and rolls over. No mention is ever made that he works all day to pay for her mortgage, car, clothing, food, insurance, and entertainment, while she spends her afternoons at home trying to learn how to cook meatballs, the most important ingredient of which, according to her mother-in-law Marie, is "love." Notice that no one points out that someone has to sweat and toil to pay for this "love."

 

In essence, Ray is humiliated and punished because he acts like a man and not like the "perfect" Debra, a woman. His response? He apologizes -- Debra's right, he's wrong. He should be more sensitive, romantic and sharing of his feelings. He might just as well cut off his testicles and hand them over to her on a plate.

 

Men who act like women

 

The problem is that we are turning into a nation of Rays. The standard held up to us is entirely female. This can be easily witnessed in the rise of the "metrosexual," the straight man so feminized that, like a woman, he is obsessed with his appearance, daubs on makeup and opts for cosmetic surgery. Today, men are supposed to have "relationship skills," and they are expected to be capable of achieving "greater intimacy" and to openly express their emotions. They are supposed to be "soul mates" and to "communicate" like girlfriends, not act like testosterone-charged lovers. But at the same time, today's woman has still not shed her typical female hypocrisy; as usual, she still wants it both ways. When there's hard work to be done or bills to be paid, that's when she wants us to act like "real men."

 

The result? A generation of guys totally bewildered, confused and disoriented. Let's face it: A man's needs are pretty minimal. All he really asks for is regular sex and a cold one. But instead, what he gets are allegations that he's "too aggressive" and trumped-up charges of "sexual harassment" for what is simply a natural appreciation of the opposite sex. If he wants to keep his job or go on a date, he's forced to endure a gut load of female bullying.

 

The role of feminism

 

It's tempting to blame the whole mess on the so-called "feminism" that has cut the heart out of Western culture. But mainstream "feminism" is a self-serving movement that grants societal license to female greed. The real culprit here is sex. As always, women -- shrewd and manipulating as they are -- know full well that most guys will do just about anything to get laid. So, as females feel their oats with their newfound power, they do what comes naturally to them: They use it for sexual blackmail. If guys want access to our bodies, they say, they're going to have to dance to our feminizing tunes.

 

It's completely lost on today's woman that females are too emotionally immature, greedy and self-indulgent to do anything but abuse and misuse this power, and they can't see that their short-term selfish thinking really equates to shooting themselves in the foot. The truth is, men are supposed to be men and women are supposed to be women. Mother Nature has made us this way through five million years of evolution. And it's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

 

Time to take it back

 

So what can we do about it?

It's time to take our territory back. Take back the penis. This is why Rich Zubaty's rally touched such a raw nerve. Men certainly didn't ask to have their territory redefined. But redefined it has been, right under our noses. Now it's time -- before it's really too late -- to stand up to women, to let them know that we're not going to take it anymore.

 

As Zubaty writes: "Our job is not to get along with the Goddess. Our job is to f**k the Goddess."

 

Amen.

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I haven't read this entire thread, but have to say that the whoe idea of "feminization" is putting the whole gender role discussion off track.

 

Being from Scandinavia, I may have a different take on this, but why is there a problem about feminization of western culture. I fell we are not feminized enough!

 

Vortex: If we are disturbed by a culture of single moms, where are all the men? They are very often shudding their responsibility or are just plain cowards: "I just wanted to get laid, and ops, she got knocked up! Got to get out of here!" And for "feminie" political theory: I did my Master's partly on Marx, and have to politely disagree. Marxism and communism are two totally different theoretical developments, and are by no means "feminine" or "masculine". Marx stated that he was not a "Marxist", instead he analyzed western industiralization and developed a theory that would elicit a better quality of life for the working classes of 19th century Europe. Communism is by far the most "masculine", suppressing, violence-ridden theory of all. Both fascism and communism are products of a masuculine culture that produced an industrial revolution based on profit.

 

If men feel victimized it's their own fault. If they feel bullied, do something about it.

 

In general, my impression is that these days, women (at least in Norway) are generally more well rounded as persons, more capable of taking responsibility for their lives, more in touch with their needs, more honest, more compassionate, kinder and even smarter. The reason is that they are in general more inclined to work on their relationships to others, and to themselves, and thus they are more in tune with their true emotions which in turn supports a life of integrity.

 

Men tend to slack off, be lazy, greedy, egoistical, self-centered, single-minded, emotional cowards (go at lengths to not confront someone or do something about a situation). They tend to be afraid of strong emotions, especially since women are more inclined to express them. They shud their responsibility to their family, and very often rank jobs, cars, hobbies, alchohol and footbal buddies before their spouses and children. Even more, men buy sex instead of opening up to their unfullfilled needs, and tend to use violence when feeling powerless.

 

This is not a society of feminization. If it were, we wouldn't have a western presence in Iraq. In a matriachy, fewer conflicts arise btw societies, as research has shown in certain cultures in Africa and Asia. If America were ruled by women, no mother would vote for sending their sons to kill other sons. Period.

 

Don't get me wrong. There is a truckload of stuff that absolutely infuriates me about women-dominated settings, but these are mere trivialities in comparaison to a world where we are heading for disaster with light speed, all due to our macho-oriented western attitude. And mostly because males with an inferiority complex, unresolved emotional baggage, or delusions of grandeur.

 

h

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Women are becoming more dominant and the men more pathetic because the Queen is returning. My solution is to take tons of tongkat and bury my inconceivably enlarged member in women who still know their place.

 

The moral of the story is that you don't have to turn into a woman as time winds down. Women certainly have no place as leaders of men or nations, despite the constant "Resident Evil" you see everywhere.

 

It is a woman's job to make lemonade for the men while they talk business. After business is concluded, it's their job to return to assuming their duties in a position of the man's choosing.

 

-P

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Women are becoming more dominant and the men more pathetic because the Queen is returning. My solution is to take tons of tongkat and bury my inconceivably enlarged member in women who still know their place.

 

The moral of the story is that you don't have to turn into a woman as time winds down. Women certainly have no place as leaders of men or nations, despite the constant "Resident Evil" you see everywhere.

 

It is a woman's job to make lemonade for the men while they talk business. After business is concluded, it's their job to return to assuming their duties in a position of the man's choosing.

 

-P

 

P, suddenly all fell into place. Tusen takk!

 

Jonah: Did I say women in america were nicer, better leaders, were all peace loving and so on?

I'm saying most mothers have no choice in the matter: When bringing up a child, you open your heart, and learn to develop compassion and unselfishness. Ofcourse, I was not pointing to every woman in general.

What I want to say is that men tend to be abit less mature... and undeveloped emotionally.

Again, I assume you understand my generalization.

 

h

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In primate societies, the female is like a queen and the male is like a general. The more warfare that goes on between primates, the more power the males have in society.

 

I think that as time goes on, human culture may be evolving past being martial based and more towards an economic focus. I like to think that wars coming from the developed world like in Iraq are just sort of old traditions trying to hang in there and assert itself when already most people have turned their attention to an economics based style of thinking.

 

In 200 years time, war will be seen by everyone as a waste of time and money. If and when this happens, we'll have to reinvent the male's role.

 

A certain degree of martial and economic peace are necessary to support a higher level of awakening on the planet, so it's a good thing. But I'd imagine there will always be a good fight around somewhere for those who desire it.

 

Yodsterz

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In primate societies, the female is like a queen and the male is like a general. The more warfare that goes on between primates, the more power the males have in society.

 

I think that as time goes on, human culture may be evolving past being martial based and more towards an economic focus. I like to think that wars coming from the developed world like in Iraq are just sort of old traditions trying to hang in there and assert itself when already most people have turned their attention to an economics based style of thinking.

 

In 200 years time, war will be seen by everyone as a waste of time and money. If and when this happens, we'll have to reinvent the male's role.

 

A certain degree of martial and economic peace are necessary to support a higher level of awakening on the planet, so it's a good thing. But I'd imagine there will always be a good fight around somewhere for those who desire it.

 

Yodsterz

War follows a power law. This in every society where it has been measured. Which is quite an indication that it is not going away. There are differences in the steepness of it, but basically it is a power law, it has always been a power law, and everything indicates that it will always be a power law.

 

The fact that is a power law means that there is a continuity between small-one-death violence and massive wars. Massive wars are just more rare, the bigger, the rarer.

 

There is no such thing as assassination opposed to war. With the hope that we might one day have a war with no war. Since there is no discontinuity, this would imply a society with no individual violence whatsoever.

 

Now by dealing with power laws we (as human race) have also discovered something in those years. They tend to appear where there is a continuous energy that gets stored in a continuous way, and then released in burps. The explosive facts, the burps, follow a power law. In forest fire the explosive facts are the fires. In earthquakes, are earthquakes which release the pressure built by the movement of the continents. And in wars?

 

In all those cases trying to stop the explosion by killing all the small fires is counterproductive, as it tends to build up the fuel for the next, bigger explosion. Let me explain, you can't really predict when one of those explosions are going to happen, but the longer you wait the bigger is going to be. If you stop all the small fires in a forest you are merely filling the oven with nice and dry wood that will cook you better.

 

Now let's move to war. Something gets released during war? What is it? A form of stress, I suppose. That stress is responsible for the killings that a random student who couldn't stand it made.

That person was killing around, but was also releasing part of the stress that we have built in this society. And boy is this society full of it.

 

Now can you see a society coming, or being where that kind of stress is not there? Because that stress is responsible for individual killings, but also for huge war. The data are clear, it is one continuous process.

Do you claim that economic power is releasing that stress? I don't see it happening. In fact I see the economic power merely moving that stress from northern countries to southern countries, where it gets then released through war.

 

So, Yoda, sorry, I think you are deluding yourself, war is here to stay.

Edited by Pietro

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Pietro,

 

I'd agree that fighting is a hardwired aspect of being alive on this planet. I do think that the killer instinct is largely being sublimated by economics.

 

I don't know for sure, but I bet that eventually, war will be ghettoified to the countries that haven't learned how to apply their attention towards economics.

 

On top of that, I think that our aggressive instincts will further transmute to spiritual aspirations once the economic focus is more established.

 

I'd like to be right, but I won't lose sleep over it in any case.

 

Yoda

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there'll always be love and war, as long as the universe is spinning, that is one of the laws.

and feminization has a lot to do with more simple things, like everpresent hormones in what we eat.

search the causes in da material, not immaterial.

:rolleyes:

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there'll always be love and war, as long as the universe is spinning, that is one of the laws.

and feminization has a lot to do with more simple things, like everpresent hormones in what we eat.

search the causes in da material, not immaterial.

:rolleyes:

 

True. :)

I don't see what's going on with men as "feminization" though. De-masculinization, yes. But a cow who's lost some weight doesn't turn into a gazelle, and a man who has lost some masculinity doesn't turn into a "feminized" phenomenon. He merely becomes exceedingly lousy at being a man, at even having the first idea of what a "real man" is about (alas, the above discussion has provided ample evidence). Not because he has become feminized -- but because he has become, um... physically limited, emotionally flattened, intellectually empoverished, and sexually devastated (you better believe it... nine out of ten men today have abnormally low sperm counts, with whatever sperm they do have providing half-dead low quality samples -- coupled with all manner of erectile dysfunctions that are currently more prevalent than the norm).

 

No wonder the neurotic de-masculinized man is looking for who to blame. No wonder he blames who he's always blamed -- the woman, of course. Is she really at fault? Oh, absolutely. Like I said in my very first entry in this thread, a mother can do a lot of damage. The enslavement of women has this interesting flip side -- no one but a woman can produce a SON, and there's only one place where an enslaved woman is powerful: by the infant's crib. Don't you realize that if you take ALL other power away from her, this is where ALL her power will be acted out, all her control, all her "I'm the boss, I do as I please?" Seriously... do you think women in harems, women not allowed to show their faces, women not allowed to walk in the street without male supervision, and so on, have no power? They have pent-up, frustrated, usurped power -- and only one place in the world to act it out. Don't you think they do?.. You can bet your afterlife on it.

 

So, the woman-know-her-place folks, that's right... the woman knows her place. Her place of power. Her womb that will make YOU. Her freedom or enslavement, her natural or unnatural situation, her normal or abnormal life -- her body knows which one it is in. And this knowledge translates, on the level of the "material and immaterial" alike, into the kind of man she will make YOU. So why don't you cut the crap, kneel before her, kiss her hand, and beg for mercy and forgiveness... before ALL your sperm dies in a generation or two. (Women don't actually need men to reproduce if it happens, did you know that? Partenogenesis it's called, we can have daughters ad infinitum via this mechanism when the last sperm keels over. Step carefully, guys...) :blink:

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(Women don't actually need men to reproduce if it happens, did you know that? Partenogenesis it's called, we can have daughters ad infinitum via this mechanism when the last sperm keels over. Step carefully, guys...) :blink:

 

Sorry babe, technology is making you redundant as well. Scientists are well on their way to creating artificial wombs, making you and your "mother power" completely irrelevent, and allowing men to bypass you and your evil ways with a smile on their face.

 

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/futurebody/dc...ecbccdrcrd.html

 

Technology can be a bitch, huh? Literally! ;)

Edited by Jonah

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Sorry babe, technology is making you redundant as well. Scientists are well on their way to creating artificial wombs, making you and your "mother power" completely irrelevent, and allowing men to bypass you and your evil ways with a smile on their face.

 

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/futurebody/dc...ecbccdrcrd.html

 

Technology can be a bitch, huh? Literally! ;)

 

No, technology is usually a male thingie, not a bitch at all. More like a bunch of phallic dreams -- a tank, a cannon, a gun, a bulldozer, a rocket... talk about penis envy, ever heard of a woman inventing a machine that resembles a penis? ;):D:D:D Nope, only guys are interested in making machines that can do what their inventor wishes HE could...

 

Artificial womb, huh? Wouldn't they need artificial sperm to insert into that -- men are running out, remember?

 

Scientists -- I mean, male scientists (and of course women who, if they want to advance in society as "scientists," are forced to function as men, not as women, for lack of a socially rewarding role for a woman functioning as a woman) are always "on their way" to radically and spectacularly solve all our problems -- like cancer, or the common cold. It's always just around the corner.

 

Don't hold your breath. The womb exists. No need to wait for a male scientist to invent it. Could be a long wait, you know, guys are FAR better at inventing penis-like contraptions, in our collective historic experience.

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No wonder he blames who he's always blamed -- the woman, of course.

These are not men. Men forgive their mothers and love their wives/female partners.

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Yikes!

This thread is pretty discouraging. I guess where there is smoke there's fire so some truth to all these allegations must be present. But I see many of these problems as indemic to an urban vs. rural setting. Those who stay close to the earth and her ways seem to keep a better balance. They also seem to be somewhat more backward in their socialization/ modernization.

We are just not balanced as a society. When the empty-headed machismo of a puissant dolt like G.W. Bush can be passed-off as leadership then how can we hope to realize our potentials for furtherance as a species? If this sort of fool can be elevated to a position of real power what can we hope to attain as indeviduals seeking our own true natures? Where are the role models?

I see it as a question of what we value in ourselves that gets our attention and is allowed to thrive. When the compliant male and the hard-edged female become those who succeed then the norm shifts away from the more traditional roles once assumed for each gender.

There is no fault to be found 'cept within ourselves. If we do not like who/what we are -then it is up to each of us to develope those traits we wish to portray. If we toady to the expectations of a society so obviously out of synch with nature -(as to be on the brink of distroying our own planets' environment)... Why would we think that our acceptible behaviors as gender-specific persons would be in balance?

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So, the woman-know-her-place folks, that's right... the woman knows her place. Her place of power. Her omb that will make YOU. Her freedom or enslavement, her natural or unnatural situation, her normal or abnormal life -- her body knows which one it is in. And this knowledge translates, on the level of the "material and immaterial" alike, into the kind of man she will make YOU. So why don't you cut the crap, kneel before her, kiss her hand, and beg for mercy and forgiveness... before ALL your sperm dies in a generation or two. (Women don't actually need men to reproduce if it happens, did you know that? Partenogenesis it's called, we can have daughters ad infinitum via this mechanism when the last sperm keels over. Step carefully, guys...) :blink:

 

 

If your power comes from you ability to make a man into who he is by virtue of the "imprinting process" that goes on until the nervous system gets shrouded in myelin, then aren't YOU responsible for creating these men who turn around oppress you the moment they can get hard?

 

Oh, but that would mean I'd be talking to a woman with logic--which doesn't exist. In more typical estrogenic fashion, you place the blame onto men for this. Of course, you are right in a sense because even though it is all your fault, it ends up being our responsibility!

 

The woman has been neglecting her duties for a looooooooooong time, and her abuse of her power is the reason she fell onto all fours long ago with no other purpose then to satisfy the lusts of men.

 

Open your mouth bitch, here comes the :P cream!

Edited by SheepishLord

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These are not men. Men forgive their mothers and love their wives/female partners.

 

Agreed.

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Agreed.

 

But loving their wives/female partners does not mean to become their slave.

Nor to be bound by an "only you, forever" that no ones really needs.

 

matter of fact most men are dominant, either in their actions or in their fantasies.

matter of fact most women are submissive, either in their actions or in their fantasies.

 

Obviously the men shouldn't abuse of this power, because it is power.

But ignoring it, and pretending we are equal is not the way to go, for it would leave both of us unsatisfied in our depth.

 

And if you want to claim that the only dominant men is an immature men, well, "lot's of luck" as they say. We accepted this lie before, and somehow we ain't going to take that anymore.

 

We are dominant, we have a dominant personality, and generally as we mature we just stop feeling guilty for it, which makes us, if anything, even more dominant.

But in a different way, which you like more.

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The thing that so many seem to be forgetting is that most men who were/are dominant, in a balanced way, are PROTECTORS. They use their strength to protect women and children.

 

Ever heard of the term "Women and children first"? Why is that? Why did these non-feminized Western men save their women and children first? Is it because they were enslaved ot their women? I think not.

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I was talking with some people in China last night and it made me realize how the West has misinterpreted or reduced "femininity" simply to weakness and "masculinity" to strength.

 

- When casually chatting with Westerners (particularly amongst males), the conversation inevitably turns into some level of crude, cynical, profanity-laced flame war.

 

- In the Chinese chat (particularly when led by a female), the mood was far more positive, encouraging and appreciative of the beauty of life. I know that sounds "corny," but it's a very different feel that is even reflected in all the majestic names used in CMA or Taoism like "cloud hands," etc.

 

What I instinctively feel here is that the West is burning itself out on the "negative" side of unbridled Yang. I mean, how much more Yang can you get than a "flame war?"

 

Meanwhile, the East is a bit more balanced with feminine Yin energy. But Yin energy here does not mean "weakness" - but an artistic appreciation and emotional zest for life. As in stopping to smell the roses and enjoying the beauty of a flower, etc... As they say, music soothes the savage beast.

 

The paradigm shift here is that Yang isn't strong and Yin isn't weak (as commonly thought in the feminist West). Strong or weak can only be used to describe the degree of each. Each can be strong or weak in their own right. And they are actually strongest when both combined together. Taoism recognized this fact and so emphasized the utility of Yin as a useful vessel for Yang - and how together they are most powerful. And thus, fusing Yang & Yin energy is essentially the basis for Lei Shan Dao and other neikung power.

 

The problem with the feminist West is that it IDs and behaves in mostly the "negative" sides of Yang (crude antagonism) and Yin (irrational emotional impulse). Because there is a fundamental misunderstanding of masculinity and especially femininity here that is really behind all our gender confusion and dysfunction.

 

Sorry for the ramble...

[/ramble]

Edited by vortex

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By the author of the "Warrior Diet" is now an "Anti-Estrogen Diet".

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The Independent

June 4, 2007

 

Women can be as violent as men, says Lessing

By Thair Shaikh

 

Doris Lessing, the novelist and feminist icon, said that women could be warmongers and as violent as men, in a speech yesterday.

 

Speaking at the Hay on Wye Festival, Lessing, 87, said that although history suggested women were peaceful, some of the worst crimes had been committed by females.

 

"There is a lot of sentimentality about women. We like to think that women are kind and motherly and are not going to go to war. But it's not true, is it?

 

"History suggests women are peace loving and law abiding - on the contrary some of the worst crimes have been committed by women," she said.

 

Promoting her latest novel, The Cleft, Lessing was asked by a woman in the audience how men could be stopped from constantly taking the world to war. "Well, I never noticed that women who get to be Prime Ministers are particularly peaceful!" she said, in what appeared to be a thinly veiled reference to Margaret Thatcher, the former Tory PM who was leader during the Falklands War.

 

Her latest book is about a mythical society free of males in which a member suddenly gives birth to a male.

 

As an author who has been strongly identified with feminism, her remarks are likely to offend many of her fellow female writers. However, Lessing has attacked feminists before - in a speech at the Edinburgh book festival in 2001, she defended men against what she called the "unthinking and automatic rubbishing" by feminists.

 

Lessing was born in Persia (now Iran) and was brought up in what was then Southern Rhodesia. She came to Britain in 1949 and became a feminist figurehead with her classics The Grass is Singing, a story set in colonial Africa, and The Golden Notebook, about a female writer's descent into madness. She went on to be shortlisted for the Booker Prize three times. In April she was nominated for the international version of the Booker Prize for fiction. And in 2001, she won the David Cohen literature prize for her lifetime's achievement.

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