Taoism and Race

[Gerard]

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Edited August 22, 2013 by Gerard

[ChiForce]

Unfortunately it takes several lifetimes of cultivation to attain that...there is also the short way (fire path) to enlightenment, but not recommended for most because if you fall the effects are tenfold as opposed to a safer method.

 

Not anyone can reach the Tao/nibbana...I'm afraid. Most humanity is not even remotely close/interested in this sort of pursuit, I don't understand why you made that statement, very encouraging but not objective at all.

I don't know, that because I received my path from my dream. I had a dream of seeing myself as one of the 3 brothers during the Han dynasty (the clothing gave away). Me or the character did some acrobatic moves similar to the movements of the the microcosmic orbit. I woke up and my kundalini energy began to rise. The rest was history. I live in America. I don't visit any Taoist temples. I am not affiliated with any religious schools. I have no teachers. Yeah, the path to the Tao came to me in my dream.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27489-new-here-tooand-have-many-questions/

 

I may have shorthanded my life a bit. Growing up in America as a Chinese American immigrant, I have internalized many of the racial and cultural racism histories. I was deeply moved by the injustice of the past maybe because I felt a lot of injustice growing up in Hong Kong. As an immigrant, I have my own cultural issues too. So, in my early childhood I was bombarded with all skandha of forms. You can't give get more skandha of forms in anywhere else but in America. Racial heritage and culture are defined by the color of your skin. You have the whole history to work it. I was slowly exhausting the skandha of forms until I was dealing with my own childhood, around 18 at that time.

Edited March 28, 2013 by ChiForce

[eye_of_the_storm]

In my view

The Tao/Absolute is both one and many... we can't discard either.

The Tao/Absolute is infinite/ infinite expression / creativity / diversity

Imagine having only 1 type of butterfly or 1 type of flower...

All these things are completely unique.

I am of European origin.

I enjoy studying eastern texts/ teachings and appreciate them very much.

I understand however that I will never be Chinese or Taoist.

Taoism is the unique expression of the Chinese people.

I can not take or become the pattern and colours of another butterfly.

I have my own pattern and colours.

But I can admire the pattern and colours of other butterflies.

I am what I am.

I think that race is much more than skin deep. It is everything, it shapes everything.

It is culture.

Just look at all the different forms of buddhism and how that has been expressed/ interpreted racially.

The Japanese + Zen compared to Chinese - who can say these things are the same?

Why this difference?

It is biological.

See, plants/flowers are a unique expression of the land.... of the spirit of the land.

Some grow way up in the mountains, others by the seashore... some under the sea.

I think people are like flowers.

Culture is the spirit of the people... which is their very being... it is hardcoded into their DNA.

Just as the expression of the flower is hardcoded into its DNA.

If the flower isnt home... it will not grow. It needs its own soil.

You can speak perfect chinese but you will never be Chinese.

Just as a tiger can mimic the roar of a lion... it doesnt make the tiger a lion.

The tiger and lion have their own paths to walk.

////

Edited March 28, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[manno]

Good Posts

Edited March 28, 2013 by manno

[manno]

For the entire world to become a world of Buddhas and Enlightened Sages where every person in this world, regardless of race, age or culture is transformed into Buddhas, both the US and China must be destroyed and obliterated.

 

The US must be destroyed because it has corrupted and polluted the philosophies of this world through CIA-controlled Hollywood and CIA-controlled government puppets in third world countries who are supporting the economic operations of American MNCs and the Industrial Revolution.

 

Hollywood has produced countless movies and dramas with the message that the only way to achieve real happiness is to become an economic slave of the system. They are trying to brainwash everyone in this world that it is their sacred duty to get a job, get married and raise children and the only way to achieve real happiness is to have your own nuclear family which is complete bollocks.

 

How are you going to get real happiness by working your ass off and raising your children to be the next generation of economic slaves? This is why American Culture and Philosophies must be wiped off the face of this planet permanently.

 

The US is the Root Demon of the world and the whole world, the whole of Humanity can never be set free and liberated if the US and American Culture don't disappear forever permanently.

 

China must be destroyed because it is trying to become the next USA. China and Chinese are just as greedy and selfish as the Americans and they only believe in eating, fornicating, making money and starting nuclear families of economic slaves. In fact, China and the Chinese would corrupt the whole world in an even worse manner than the Americans. Just take a talk among the major cities in China and you could swear that there is no difference between Chinese cities and American cities bar the pollution and cleanliness.

 

China has become a perverse copy of the US and the teachings of Chinese Enlightenment and Spirituality has been replaced by the religion of Money, Food and Sex. This is why the China and the Chinese must undergo so much pain and suffering that they will return to God and find Enlightenment deep inside themselves.

 

The East will rule the world and the West will lose its relevance but the East will rule the world without economic, technological or military dominance. Instead, the Eastern Spiritual Teachings of Enlightenment will spread throughout the world in such a prevalent manner than the goal of chasing after God and Inner Enlightenment will take precedence over the goal of chasing after the base material pleasures of food, sex and money.

 

China will never be a leader in the East or in the World of course because China and the Chinese have been proven to be totally corrupt inside. At best, the Chinese can be loyal followers but the Chinese do not have the courage or balls to become True Leaders for to become a True Leader is to become a Rebel against the Current System of Corruption and Sin.

 

The Chinese do not have the bollocks to become Rebels and this is why they will never become the leaders of this world.

 

This is how the World will Die and be Resurrected for it is only through Death of the Two major Demons in this world - the US and China - then can the rest of the World Liberate itself and begin to Seek Enlightenment. Of course the ETs might show up anytime and change the plans.

Edited March 28, 2013 by manno

[manno]

I don't know, that because I received my path from my dream. I had a dream of seeing myself as one of the 3 brothers during the Han dynasty (the clothing gave away). Me or the character did some acrobatic moves similar to the movements of the the microcosmic orbit. I woke up and my kundalini energy began to rise. The rest was history. I live in America. I don't visit any Taoist temples. I am not affiliated with any religious schools. I have no teachers. Yeah, the path to the Tao came to me in my dream.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27489-new-here-tooand-have-many-questions/

 

I may have shorthanded my life a bit. Growing up in America as a Chinese American immigrant, I have internalized many of the racial and cultural racism histories. I was deeply moved by the injustice of the past maybe because I felt a lot of injustice growing up in Hong Kong. As an immigrant, I have my own cultural issues too. So, in my early childhood I was bombarded with all skandha of forms. You can't give get more skandha of forms in anywhere else but in America. Racial heritage and culture are defined by the color of your skin. You have the whole history to work it. I was slowly exhausting the skandha of forms until I was dealing with my own childhood, around 18 at that time.

 

I hate to say this brother but Chinese Americans have the worst of both worlds. Nothing against you personally cos I don't know you. I am not sure if you have China, HK or Taiwanese ancestry but I group all three countries under the same category "China".

 

What I really wanna say is this. The Koreans and especially the Japanese are more "Chinese" than the modern mainland Chinese themselves.

 

Do you know that during the last few decades, more than a few Chinese monks have to cross the strait to visit Japanese Buddhist temples and obtain authentic copies of Buddhist Teachings from Japanese Monks because the Chinese Government has destroyed too many spiritual teachings?

 

And yet, you have the mainlander Chinese harping on about how the Japanese are barbarians for raping and killing their own women more than 60 years ago. To make things even more hypocritical, the same mainlander Chinese actually keep their mouths shut when it comes down to atrocities committed against the Tibetan Monks and the Tibetan Culture.

 

The Chinese are just too brainwashed and have been rendered incapable to think for themselves.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Manno,

You are getting close to something here... China + USA situation are not seperate things.

They are possessed by the same (demonic) ideology... many nations have been throughout history.

This ideology is Judaism, Christianity as it is known today being a pawn of the Judaic ideology.

It is interesting to note... the rise in Communism... with the rise of Judeo-Christianity?

Judeo-Christianity is for the slaves.... Judaism is for the masters.

I think the bible still holds much value however.... what is being taught is very different...

For example

God who made the world and all that is in it, being Lord of both Heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands, nor is He ministered to by human hands, as though He had need of anything - seeing that He is the One who gives to all men life and breath and everything else. Acts 17:24,25.

^ isnt that a blast?

There is significant ground to cover regarding this.

It has been discussed already here somewhat in regards to Yahweh + Talmud etc

May explain the actions of Israel today... and how they justify such actions.

One would need to look into the history of Communism (method of social enginnering /conditioning... destruction of knowledge + native culture)

+ re evaluate the history of China in terms of the "Cultural Revolution" ... 60 million Chinese died... they are not cowards.

They have been fooled like many before them however... this is due mostly to their good nature/ innocence.

The "Russian" Bolshevik "Revolution" was very similar....

Also resulting in the murdering of the native peoples ruling family... the Russian Tsar + the Chinese Emperor and their kin.

One also needs to look at who was behind the opium wars... and who really controlled Britain (Empire)... Waterloo was a significant event regarding that.

But I believe it predates that... Caesar was assasinated by these people... Jesus Christ was crucified by these people...

JFK + other USA leaders...

+ more recent Mid East leaders...

All having one thing in common... $$$$$$ + the control of.

Amschel Bauer Mayer Rothschild, 1838: "Let me issue and control a Nation's money and I care not who makes its laws".

JC + The Cleansing of the Temple...

This is all very relevant to the global economic situation today.

The history of usury will also make a number of things very apparent.

Edited March 29, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have found much predjudism against white folks amongst the Asian commuities! Or against me at least. There are about 20 stores locally which sell various incense, candles, statues and other such supplies; 2 of them are really friendly towards me and my friends. One of the stores even takes me seriously and gives me advice. Some of them just glare at us when we walk in. Most of them just ignore us. I even remember being told while in one store by a random asian person that white people should not practice such things or use such items. If I had been thinking faster I would have told her that she was no longer allowed to wear blue jeans or eat at mcdonalds in this case. For the temples, I will only wander into the ones which allow tourists in to avoid the glares and dissaproving looks.

 

I have no idea what it is like in China.

 

I can only speak about martial arts here, but there are some things which some asian folks either are not allowed to share with a western person, or choose not to, depending.

Edited March 29, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[manno]

 

I think the bible still holds much value however.... what is being taught is very different...

 

+ re evaluate the history of China in terms of the "Cultural Revolution" ... 60 million Chinese died... they are not cowards.

 

The Vatican with-held much spiritual information regarding enlightenment and reincarnation by taking such information out of the bible.

 

The deaths of 60 million Chinese is a drop of water in an ocean. What did the other 1 billion plus Chinese do? Sit in their house and drink tea all day long?

 

I am Chinese myself.. I grew up with Chinese parents, Chinese siblings and a Chinese extended family so I know exactly how the Chinese are like..

 

They have no qualms about co-operating with outsiders to betray their own blood all in the name of money and profit..

 

How many Chinese officials have accepted bribes from American factories in China? Countless Chinese officials. In fact, it is the nature of business to grease the palms of Chinese officials in order to get things done.

 

This is why there is so much pollution and suffering in China. The Chinese officials take bribes from the rich so that they will pretend to see nothing when the rich take advantage of the poor and lower classes.

 

Why do you think there is such a lack of human rights and decency in China? The Chinese people have simply degraded into a bunch of animals who see nothing wrong with lying, cheating and stealing from each other.

 

There is simply no honor, no sense of justice, no conscience, no morality in the Chinese people anymore. Every single Chinese person is simply looking out for himself/herself and if other people get screwed, so be it.

 

In fact, this lack of morality, conscience, honor even applies to Chinese peeps living overseas. HK, Taiwan, Singapore ain't that much different. Ironically, HK, Taiwan and Singapore have adopted American Values as well. Democracy, Freedoms and all that crap.

 

This is why I say Japan with its values of honor and purity will take the charge in leading the East to overthrow the existing Western order of sin and corruption. There is simply no other way the world can change for the better.

 

My own Chinese family members have betrayed me on numerous occasions especially over the last 3 years .. so don't tell me the Chinese are not greedy selfish cowards.. cos I have personal experience of how cowardly, how selfish and how greedy the Chinese can be..

Edited March 29, 2013 by manno

[eye_of_the_storm]

You raise good points.

You may find interesting a common text among... Vatican Judaism + Freemasonry = Kabbalah

The Kabbalah and Freemasonry

Rooted in the ancient Egyptian Mysteries, three different versions of basically the same teachings can be identified by three different spellings: Kabbalah, Cabala and Qabalah.

The Kabbalah is an essentially Jewish mystical or esoteric school. Although the Christian Church Fathers of the first century were demonstratably Kabbalists, mystical or gnostic elements within the Church largely disappeared within the first three centuries, only to reappear as a Christian Cabala during the Renaissance. A third, often hidden, stream of mystical Western philosophy absorbed many Egyptian, Jewish and Christian mystical elements and termed them the Qabalah.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/kabbalah.html

Yahweh, prior to becoming Yahweh the national god of Israel and taking on monotheistic attributes in the 6th century BCE, was a part of the Canaanite pantheon in the period before the Babylonian captivity. Archeological evidence reveals that during this time period the Israelites were a group of Canaanite people. Yahweh was seen as a war god, and equated with El. Asherah, who was often seen as El's consort, has been described as a consort of Yahweh in numerous inscriptions.^[1] The name Yahwi may possibly be found in some male Amorite names.^[2]Yahu may be found in a place name.

Evidence from ancient Egypt

According to Botterweck and Ringgren, the earliest known occurrence of the name "Yahu" is its inclusion of the name "the land of Shasu-y/iw" in a list of Egyptian place names found in the temple of Amon at Soleb (see also Shasu of Yhw), from the time of Amenhotep III (1402-1363 BCE).^[3] The place name appears to be associated with Asiatic nomads in the 14th to 13th centuries BCE. A later mention from the era of Ramesses II (c. 1303 BCE – 1213 BCE) associates Yahu with Mount Seir. From this, it is generally supposed that this Yahu refers to a place in the area of Moab and Edom.^[4] Whether the god was named after the place, or the place named after the god, is undecided.^[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_%28Canaanite_deity%29

//

Moloch (representing Semitic מלך m-l-k, a Semitic root meaning "king") – also rendered as Molech, Molekh, Molok, Molek, Molock, Moloc, Melech, Milcom or Molcom – is the name of an ancient Ammonite god.^[1] Moloch worship was practiced by the Canaanites, Phoenician and related cultures in North Africa and the Levant.

As a god worshipped by the Phoenicians and Canaanites, Moloch had associations with a particular kind of propitiatory child sacrifice by parents. Moloch figures in the Book of Deuteronomy and in the Book of Leviticus as a form of idolatry (Leviticus 18:21: "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Moloch"). In the Old Testament, Gehenna was a valley by Jerusalem, where apostate Israelites and followers of various Baalim and Caananite gods, including Moloch, sacrificed their children by fire (2 Chr. 28:3, 33:6; Jer. 7:31, 19:2–6).

Moloch has been used figuratively in English literature from John Milton's Paradise Lost (1667) to Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" (1955), to refer to a person or thing demanding or requiring a very costly sacrifice.

 

...

The Hebrew letters מלך (mlk) usually stand for melek "king" (Proto-Northwest Semitic malku) but when vocalized as mōlek in Masoretic Hebrew text, they have been traditionally understood as a proper name Μολοχ (molokh) (Proto-Northwest Semitic Mulku) in the corresponding Greek renderings in the Septuagint translation, in Aquila, and in the Middle Eastern Targum. The form usually appears in the compound lmlk. The Hebrew preposition l- means "to", but it can often mean "for" or "as a(n)". Accordingly one can translate lmlk as "to Moloch" or "for Moloch" or "as a Moloch", or "to the Moloch" or "for the Moloch" or "as the Moloch", whatever a "Moloch" or "the Moloch" might be. We also once find hmlk "the Moloch" standing alone.

Because there is no difference between mlk "king" and mlk "moloch" in unpointed text, interpreters sometimes suggest molek should be understood in certain places where the Masoretic text is vocalized as melek, and vice versa.

Moloch has been traditionally interpreted as the name of a god, possibly a god titled the king, but purposely mispronounced as Molek instead of Melek using the vowels of Hebrew bosheth "shame".^[2]

Moloch appears in the Hebrew of 1 Kings 11:7 (on Solomon's religious failings):

Then did Solomon build a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and lmlk, the abomination of the Sons of Ammon.

In other passages, however, the god of the Ammonites is named Milcom, not Moloch (see 1 Kings 11.33; Zephaniah 1.5). The Septuagint reads Milcom in 1 Kings 11.7 instead of Moloch. Many English translations accordingly follow the non-Hebrew versions at this point and render Milcom. The form mlkm can also mean "their king" as well as Milcom, and therefore one cannot always be sure in some other passages whether the King of Ammon is intended or the god Milcom. It has also been suggested that the Ba‘al of Tyre, Melqart "king of the city" (who was probably the Ba‘al whose worship was furthered by Ahab and his house) was this supposed god Moloch and that Melqart/Moloch was also Milcom the god of the Ammonites and identical to other gods whose names contain mlk.

Amos 5:26 reads in close translation:

• But you shall carry Sikkut your king,
  • and Kiyyun, your images, the star-symbol of your god
  • which you made for yourself.

The Septuagint renders "your king" as Moloch, perhaps from a scribal error, whence the verse appears in Acts 7.43:

• You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
  • and the star of your god Rephan,
  • the idols you made to worship.

The star is...

John Milton's Paradise Lost (1667), Moloch is one of the greatest warriors of the fallen angels,

"First MOLOCH, horrid King besmear'd with blood

Of human sacrifice, and parents tears,

Though, for the noyse of Drums and Timbrels loud,

Their children's cries unheard that passed through fire

To his grim Idol. Him the AMMONITE

Worshipt in RABBA and her watry Plain,

In ARGOB and in BASAN, to the stream

Of utmost ARNON. Nor content with such

Audacious neighbourhood, the wisest heart

Of SOLOMON he led by fraud to build

His Temple right against the Temple of God

On that opprobrious Hill, and made his Grove

The pleasant Vally of HINNOM, TOPHET thence

And black GEHENNA call'd, the Type of Hell."

He is listed among the chief of Satan's angels in Book I, and is given a speech at the parliament of Hell in Book 2:43 – 105, where he argues for immediate warfare against God. He later becomes revered as a pagan god on Earth.
...

Later commentators have compared these accounts with similar ones from Greek and Latin sources speaking of the offering of children by fire as sacrifices in the Punic city of Carthage, a Phoenician colony. Cleitarchus, Diodorus Siculus and Plutarch all mention burning of children as an offering to Cronus or Saturn, that is to Ba‘al Hammon, the chief god of Carthage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

Canaanite civilization was a response to long periods of stable climate interrupted by short periods of climate change. During these periods, Canaanites profited from their intermediary position between the ancient civilizations of the Middle East — Ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia (Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, Babylonia), the Hittites, and Minoan Crete — to become city states of merchant princes along the coast, with small kingdoms specializing in agricultural products in the interior. This polarity, between coastal towns and agrarian hinterland, was illustrated in Canaanite mythology by the struggle between the storm god, variously called Teshub (Hurrian) or Ba'al Hadad (Semitic Amorite/Aramean) and Ya'a, Yaw, Yahu or Yam, god of the sea and rivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

Edited March 29, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Stosh]

Since everyone here is saying so much about western ideas, versus eastern ideas , it would probably be fitting to list a few of these , so the point can be evaluated.

[manitou]

It seems that in the end they all end up in Enlightenment, if the path is followed to the best of one's ability with love and good intention at the forefront. Any prejudices which arise are the unresolved issues of the prejudicee and the prejudicer. I don't think the Dalai Lama would respond to any sort of prejudice against his ancestry with anything but love.

 

If you read any of the great western metaphysicians, Manley Hall, Helena Blavatsky, Harold Percival, even Mary Baker Eddy - these are enlightened ones who followed their own path up - Manley Hall through Masonry up to the 33rd degree, but also a scholar of all comparative religion - it seems that the Intelligent Undercurrent (or Tao) will certainly guide the path of any sincere seeker,regardless of where in the world they were born.

 

Some of us have been on this forum for years and don't subscribe to the Ism part of the Tao-ness. Once we transcend the particular structure we were born into (usually Christianity if in the west), then it leads to the same place of no-structure which is shared by the other 'isms', once that structure is transcended. My Intelligent Undercurrent had me happen upon a copy of the Tao Te Ching at a yard sale years ago. I fell in love with it, that's all. That's why I'm here.

 

The trick is to Practice what we've Learned throughout all the ism-ness and discard the structures, as I see it. The enlightenment will be found there. The discarding isn't done through distaste, just a condensation of the essence of what the Ism is saying, but a loss of the surrounding fables and 'have-to's'.

[Stosh]

It seems that in the end they all end up in Enlightenment, if the path is followed to the best of one's ability with love and good intention at the forefront. Any prejudices which arise are the unresolved issues of the prejudicee and the prejudicer. I don't think the Dalai Lama would respond to any sort of prejudice against his ancestry with anything but love.

 

If you read any of the great western metaphysicians, Manley Hall, Helena Blavatsky, Harold Percival, even Mary Baker Eddy - these are enlightened ones who followed their own path up - Manley Hall through Masonry up to the 33rd degree, but also a scholar of all comparative religion - it seems that the Intelligent Undercurrent (or Tao) will certainly guide the path of any sincere seeker,regardless of where in the world they were born.

 

Some of us have been on this forum for years and don't subscribe to the Ism part of the Tao-ness. Once we transcend the particular structure we were born into (usually Christianity if in the west), then it leads to the same place of no-structure which is shared by the other 'isms', once that structure is transcended. My Intelligent Undercurrent had me happen upon a copy of the Tao Te Ching at a yard sale years ago. I fell in love with it, that's all. That's why I'm here.

 

The trick is to Practice what we've Learned throughout all the ism-ness and discard the structures, as I see it. The enlightenment will be found there. The discarding isn't done through distaste, just a condensation of the essence of what the Ism is saying, but a loss of the surrounding fables and 'have-to's'.

Asolutely right , one of the great messages to learn from the classics is that these divisions , which have folks all riled up are illusory , they have no solid foundation , they are simply abstractions. It is possible to draw imaginary lines around groupings of people , and claim that they have commonality ( which they may to a degree) but making the extrapolation that all such people are one way or another is just false , and makes it difficult to get along , to see the similarities that one another may have and to appreciate both the differences and the likeness.

The tendency to back up only enough to admit that MAYBE a FEW of the people that come from some corner of the world MAY not adhere to stereotype is still clinging to the notion that one really KNOWS something about pretty much everybody from that place--- you dont , you never met them ,you never will meet all of them , and even if you did,, you will never really know what another persons heart contains.

One can still do the generalizing , the lumping and stereotyping ,, but what one should understand is they dont have an iron clad perch of perspective to do so. To the extent that one doesnt know the individuals they refer to - they are WRONG to judge.

[chenping]

People are animals too. Some are benign while others are not. Stereotyping is a natural survival instinct. To suppress it is mad.

There was this German woman who also felt it was wrong to judge. So. she jumped into the polar bear enclosure to hug the bears. And this was the result.

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The opinion being expressed here, thought sincere on the part of those writing them, are lacking in perspective. Simply erase race from the picture and you will see that every country suffers power struggles. This has nothing to do with skin colour, and every culture, that different races are generally raised by, struggles with the desires of the powerful against the resources of the rest.

 

When you point at races you miss the actual cause of these problems and will continue to pit the dis-enfranchised against the dis-enfranchised based on the illusions of external appearances. These external appearances seem determinate until you have the fortune of living in a place where all races are raised with the same culture. In these environments, it becomes quite obvious that all humans have the same weaknesses and strengths within them which can be manipulated by external circumstances.

 

When we focus on the results rather than the causes we'll just continue to suffer these causes perpetually with no efforts made to actually resolve them. It's difficult to look at our own problems, so much so that people can only bear to fight those of others for the time being. When humanity learns the courage to look at its own problems, only then will our collective evolution begin. It burns, it rages, and it squirms, but it must be done for humanity to avoid regressing to the animal kingdom.

 

When we look deeper we'll see the hidden ocean of reality underneath.. to face this ocean is to observe the dawning of humanity, and reunite with our long lost brothers and sisters of the same Heaven and Earth.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Stosh]

All I see is a person mauled by a bear , all they reported ,was that they had no idea why, and neither do I.

Sure stereotyping is a common thing done!

But it doesnt leave one as open to what one might really encounter , it is presupposition , it is not being a clear mirror to events. The lady could more wisely have evaluated the bears as big dangerous animals , just by looking at them, rather than prejudge that they were tame.

 

You and I have learned many things

some of them are just plain wrong

Which those are is hard to say

but only you or I have a right to decide

which things go and what should stay.

 

It certainly possible for folks to live out a happy life being wrong about various things.

Some things just do not have a right vs wrong value to them, one chooses.

As I already said..

 

One can still do the generalizing , the lumping and stereotyping ,, but what one should understand is they dont have an iron clad perch of perspective to do so.

[silas]

 

If you read any of the great western metaphysicians, Manley Hall, Helena Blavatsky, Harold Percival, even Mary Baker Eddy - these are enlightened ones who followed their own path up - Manley Hall through Masonry up to the 33rd degree, but also a scholar of all comparative religion - it seems that the Intelligent Undercurrent (or Tao) will certainly guide the path of any sincere seeker,regardless of where in the world they were born.

.

 

Helena Blavatsky was a buddhist and a racist. From her book "The Secret Doctrine":

 

Mankind is obviously divided into god-informed men and lower human creatures. The intellectual difference between the Aryan and other civilized nations and such savages as the South Sea Islanders, is inexplicable on any other grounds. No amount of culture, nor generations of training amid civilization, could raise such human specimens as the Bushmen, the Veddhas of Ceylon, and some African tribes, to the same intellectual level as the Aryans, the Semites, and the Turanians so called.

 

The Secret Doctrine, Vol. 2, p 421.

 

 

Asolutely right , one of the great messages to learn from the classics is that these divisions , which have folks all riled up are illusory , they have no solid foundation , they are simply abstractions. It is possible to draw imaginary lines around groupings of people , and claim that they have commonality ( which they may to a degree) but making the extrapolation that all such people are one way or another is just false , and makes it difficult to get along , to see the similarities that one another may have and to appreciate both the differences and the likeness.

 

From the movie Sucker Punch:

 

Don't ever write a check with your mouth, you can't cash with your ass...

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

 

The world of Sucker Punch is war and imprisonment, a cinematic imaging of the war and imprisonment in everyday life, from social conditioning and expectation. However, the movie suggests that mental abstractions are all that protect the protagonist from destructive forces. The ChuangTzu counsels to "serve your own mind so that sadness or joy do not sway or move it". SuckerPunch suggests that an "ism" or community (other women imprisoned with the protagonist, as well as her spiritual guide and master) can help her to escape and keep her safe.

[shanlung]

 

Is Taoism as open to members of non-Chinese and non-East Asian races as, say, Christianity or Buddhism? Does Taoism have the ability to have a universal appeal?

 

Are there any prejudices against non-Chinese who are interested in Taoism, particularly in Chinese countries or communities? For example, do Westerners who have interest in Taoism find doors closed to them based upon their race? Say for example if a Westerner desired to join a Quanzhen monastic community, would there be any hesitation or desire to keep foreigners out by the Chinese?

 

 

With all your professed desire for the Tao, have you ever read the books by John Blofeld, an acknowledge Western expert with travelled and lived in Buddhist and Taoist monasteries and temples in China in before WW2?

 

If you have not, you are NOT searching for the Tao, and at best, you just a wannabe.

 

If you have read his books, then you would have known top Taoists in China during the time of Blofeld stay received Blofeld with open arms and taught him as much as he could received.

 

Perhaps you yourself think too much of your being a Westerner, a superior kind of Westerner, and that you may be a racist and think others are racist like you.

 

I think you closed the doors yourself, and not that the doors are closed on you.

 

Idiotic Taoist

[manno]

Let me shed a few more hard-earned revelations on race and enlightenment.

 

When I was in China, I hung out with a number of Westerners working in China. Now I know that I have made quite a few rants against the Chinese. But from my observations, it seems to me that the longer a Westerner has lived and worked in China, the greater the tendency for that particular Westerner to adopt and integrate the Chinese traits of lying, stealing and cheating into himself.

 

Now all of you are familiar with energetic practices. All of you should understand that if you live in a filthy environment with filthy people, you will begin to act and think more like those filthy people. The energetic thought-forms of filthy people will penetrate into your being so that you will begin to think more like them.

 

This is why all the yogis, ascetics and sages run away into the mountains to cultivate away from the masses. Because these yogis, ascetics and sages do not want filthy thought-forms from the unenlightened mundane masses to pollute and corrupt their own psyche which will in turn retard their own spiritual cultivation.

 

Imagine for instance, you are trying to cut off sexual desires and yet you mix around with thousands and millions of people who have sexual desires. The thought-form energies of sexual desires from these thousands and millions of people living in the cities will undoubtedly influence and pollute your thought-forms making it that much harder for you to cut off your sexual desires.

 

Now I do know a few Chinese living overseas in first world countries. (NOT the US, HK, Singapore and Taiwan) These Chinese living overseas in Europe for eg tend to adopt the more gentile civilized manners and philosophies which the Europeans possess. As I said before, your environment and the people around you have a huge influence on how you think.

 

Live in a filthy environment with filthy people and you will become one of the filthy people. Live in a pure environment with people of pure hearts and your heart will become just as pure as the pure ones.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Now I do know a few Chinese living overseas in first world countries. (NOT the US, HK, Singapore and Taiwan) These Chinese living overseas in Europe for eg tend to adopt the more gentile civilized manners and philosophies which the Europeans possess. As I said before, your environment and the people around you have a huge influence on how you think.

 

Well, at least here you're acknowledging that the cultural environment, and not race, is the guiding factor; however, your criticism of the prevailing behaviour that you experienced still needs to be recognized for its environmental cause rather than pointing to the external illusions (the racial majority) that your immediate senses perceive in this environment.

 

You might also want to restate that you are racially Chinese when stating these things for what it's worth as it might be the hairs breadth that keeps you from getting banned.

[manno]

Both race AND environment contribute to the influencing of the individual's psyche.

 

For eg, the Japanese has an extremely high standard of cleanliness and hygiene. The Chinese have this filthy habit of spitting on the streets. Now if a Chinese person walk on the streets in Japan and he spits on the street, a thousand and one pairs of Japanese eyes will look at him and chastise him silently for performing such a filthy act.

 

The Chinese, being the uneducated bumpkin that he is, will think that there is nothing wrong with spitting on the streets. But the peer pressure from the Japanese will slowly change the Chinese and evolve the Chinese into a somewhat cleaner person.

 

I will be frank with you. There are too many Overseas Chinese who are disgusted with the Mainlander Chinese themselves. Even within China, there is a schism between the rural Chinese and the urbanized, more educated Chinese.

Edited March 29, 2013 by manno

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Manno, I think you need to look at the deeper reasons for your racism, perhaps some rejection by mainlanders or something of the like. The urban rural schism you describe exists in every country and every race. The Japanese are as they are because they have grown up in the culture they grew up in. When a Japanese person grows up in a different culture they will do as is done in that country with some influence by their parents who grew up with their influences as well.

 

Again, you really need to take a closer look at your reasons for prejudice and do something about that because they are quite apparently short cutting your logic on these judgements. I'm not discussing this anymore with you until you do this.

[Birch]

As already mentioned in several current threads, targetting people based on their gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation is against forum rules concerning disrespectful speech.

 

 

K on behalf of the moderation team.

[Kongming]

With all your professed desire for the Tao, have you ever read the books by John Blofeld, an acknowledge Western expert with travelled and lived in Buddhist and Taoist monasteries and temples in China in before WW2?

 

If you have not, you are NOT searching for the Tao, and at best, you just a wannabe.

 

If you have read his books, then you would have known top Taoists in China during the time of Blofeld stay received Blofeld with open arms and taught him as much as he could received.

 

Perhaps you yourself think too much of your being a Westerner, a superior kind of Westerner, and that you may be a racist and think others are racist like you.

 

I think you closed the doors yourself, and not that the doors are closed on you.

 

Idiotic Taoist

 

I have read some of Blofeld's works, my particular favorite being the Zen Teachings of Huang Po. Whether every foreigner has had the same experience as Blofeld or whether prevailing sentiments have changed since his time and our own is open to discussion, which in essence was the point of my thread. I know I have heard personally of other religious or cultural groups complaining of Westerners being interested in or participating in their traditions, exclaiming it as a form of "cultural appropriation" or some new found means of colonial racism and oppression in the popular reoccurring theme of the modern world of "white Western Christian man= evil, bad guy of history." I'd imagine (and hope) that Taoists or Buddhists or others who seek a supra-individual Truth that transcends race, ethnicity, and culture would be less likely to fall prey to such thinking and wasn't implying that it was otherwise by creating this thread.

 

I am searching for what the Taoists call Tao and find myself in agreement with most Taoist points of view, with the Tao Te Ching being among if not my very favorite sacred text, and yet I consider Taoism as a potential vehicle or path toward the One Truth, not the only one. I also have considered in the past and still consider to this day other traditions such as Buddhism, Vedanta, Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and Sufism.

 

As to being a Westerner, yes, that is what I am. I personally acknowledge the existence of race and culture and don't think they are entirely meaningless or something of no value as much of contemporary society does. With that said, I don't feel myself superior, inferior, or equal to anyone, either collectively on a racial/cultural level or individually. I don't qualify or compare myself to others.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Kongming

[Kongming]

Since everyone here is saying so much about western ideas, versus eastern ideas , it would probably be fitting to list a few of these , so the point can be evaluated.

 

As I hinted to previously, I don't think there is an West vs East on a spiritual or philosophical level traditionally/historically. The shift really became a modernist vs traditionalist view, the former denying the importance of the spiritual and the latter having the spiritual as its central axis or heart. The West gradually, over the course of many centuries, came to embody the modernist view in the majority, but that doesn't mean that throughout that process and into today there weren't Westerners opposed to modernism and trying to uphold metaphysical truth. Now the East is also largely adopting modern ways on a more complete level, which they call "Westernization" but should more aptly be called modernization/secularization. As I also said, the quickness with which the East has foregone their previous spiritual focus and adopted the materialistic, modern Western views betrays a process of degeneration free of any Western influence occurring among themselves. This is the doctrine of ages I spoke of previously.

 

Look into the spirituality and philosophies of the pre-modern West and the East, and the differences are far less apparent. Especially on the transcendent level, they were all searching for enlightenment or a personal ontological transformation into a divine or sacred state. The reason the differences are less apparent is because there is in truth one Primordial Tradition, one perennial Truth that is the birthright and ultimate goal of all mankind regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, or culture.