Foundations

[Jetsun]

Any books on Ngondro anyone can recommend?

 

"Words of my Perfect Teacher" by Patrul Rinpoche http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Teacher-Revised-Edition-Literature/dp/1570624127 is highly regarded, it probably goes into a bit more depth than many other introductions though so it depends how much detail you want

[RiverSnake]

Indeed being in Emptiness 24 hrs a day is Idyllic...after all we are ultimately looking to become the Void.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[thelerner]

..after all we are ultimately looking to become the Void.

-My 2 cents, Peace

I must be in a very contrarian mood, but that line reminds me of a quote from O'Sensei's cousin when told the 'void' was the ultimate state. He smashed down his fist and passionately said "To be one with the void is not the ultimate'. You want to become one with everything. And the Void is exists as a part of Everything"

 

I'm probably paraphrasing badly and maybe the words are just a semantic game, but the gist of it was the whole man accepts Everything, has a mind Open to everything. Maybe it points away from the experience of 'go away I'm meditating' and into a consciousness that absorbs all it sees and much of what it doesn't.

 

It fits into my theory that opposite of a great truth is another great truth.

Edited April 23, 2012 by thelerner

[Vmarco]

He also reportedly scolded his monks for spending too much time sitting in meditation.

 

"When alive, one keeps sitting without lying down.

When dead, one lies without sitting up.

In both cases, a set of stinking bones.

What has it to do with the Great Lesson in life?"

 

Yet, i do not agree that meditation is unnecessary. It may be so when one has fully synthesized path and fruit, not before.

 

I've found meditation helpful,...even intoxicating,...or am I too dishonest to admit that something I thought to be meaningful, may be meaningless. Don't know.

 

"In a state of non-meditation, you attain Mahamudra."

[C T]

I've found meditation helpful,...even intoxicating,...or am I too dishonest to admit that something I thought to be meaningful, may be meaningless. Don't know.

 

"In a state of non-meditation, you attain Mahamudra."

I dont think you are being dishonest.

 

There will arise moments where formal meditation, when let go of, becomes more helpful, and there are moments when it needs to be held lovingly so as the fruits can ripen naturally. Might not be wise to cut down the tree each time the fruits have been plucked though when a little trim here and there would generally suffice.

 

Non-meditation can be a very misleading term, especially for those new to buddhist tantra.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The only thing I would add to what's already been said, is that I think people should try to check out the original scriptures and early masters. However, what you learn for yourself, about yourself, by yourself, I think is more important. Again with the music metaphors, if you want to learn to play like someone, check out where they learned from, then develop your own style. But those original sources are like the heirloom seeds, and the early masters are like fertile soil, two useful things if you want a practice that bears edible fruits. Of course, you can't grow a tree from a seed that's already been planted, but you can try planting some its fruits and start a new one.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[RiverSnake]

Indeed lerner. I think its partially semantical but also an important distinction...whatever words i type in response i think will fall short.... my knowledge on this topic is still expanding and evolving.

 

Also i have no desire to derail the thread.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 23, 2012 by OldGreen

[Vmarco]

 

 

Non-meditation can be a very misleading term, especially for those new to buddhist tantra.

 

Yes, it is likely doubtful that non-meditation can be undertood by "those new to buddhist tantra"

 

I do love Esther Hicks quote,..."We teach meditation, or quieting the mind, because it is really easier to teach you to have no thoughts, than to teach you to have pure, positive thought. We would rather you be in a state of appreciation, than in a state of meditation, because in appreciation you are a vibrational match to your [Higher Self]."

 

If you look closely at Buddha's enlightenment, it did not uncover itself through meditation, which almost killed him, but after he ceased meditating, and was in appreciation from the food that Sujata brought him.

[steve]

What practices/methods or developments/achievements do YOU consider to be a FOUNDATION.

Awareness

[寒月 Hanyue]

Again thank you to all those contributing.

 

I have often found when digging further, that while the object of foundational practice does not change, there are in fact methods usually taught or established BEFORE the more 'formal' methods.

 

These are often not talked about or even mentioned. So how do you establish your foundation?

 

Again, I am asking in a no correct or incorrect answer, manner. So I ask that those contributing do not attack others who contribute their thoughts. I'd rather simply see you contribute your own thoughts on how you establish your own idea of foundation and simply leave it at that, a thread of various concepts related to what 'foundation' is, and how it can be 'sought' or 'developed'.

 

 

All the best,

Edited April 23, 2012 by snowmonki

[steve]

So how do you establish your foundation?

 

Very simple, pay attention to everything going on inside of you and around you

[Aetherous]

For me...cultivating heartfulness, watching comedies, natural breathing, any kind of exercise, staying hydrated. This shit always changes though.

[Mokona]

Lao Tzu said, "Do you think you can clear your mind by sitting constantly in silent meditation? This makes your mind narrow, not clear."

 

 

 

As Hui Neng reportedly said, that meditation is unnecessary, and warned that such practice can easily become a narcotic.

 

Ah! But what does Vmarco say?

[Friend]

 

 

I have often found when digging further, that while the object of foundational practice does not change, there are in fact methods usually taught or established BEFORE the more 'formal' methods.

 

These are often not talked about or even mentioned. So how do you establish your foundation?

 

 

This is a nice question from awareness: "Before the Formal Methods" Stuff.

One of this stuff I mentioned about Trataka in one of my post are the before the Formal Method.

The Water path Neikung is in my eyes can be use as preexercise the Longmenpai Qigong which use a fast prodcedure of sinking Qi with less station.

And before standing and crosslegged sitting is the Wallsquatting, opening back for sitting.

Before the chair sitting there is "coachdriver position" (Kutscherhaltung) to learn Rise of Qi and understand ones inner state.

If one do something form based on has to understand Shoong which is easiest understand by the chair sitting.

Doing standing is to better understand expansion, when finger, toes and eyes opens

which is teached in Chunyi Lins Book 2 of SFQ about letting energy making the hand rigid.

Having this one channel the energy into the movement and discern Li from Qi by using Yi to move to what extend the body allows.

One choose arcording the lineage the forms and do with them Zhan Zhuang to find the best biomechanical position for one body and stand to extend breathing, expand the qi and rise the qi and release the hold of the body.

Each form is unique because of the time on has to invest them to unlock them I see that it is not advised for beginners to perform a lot of practises.

 

There are two position which are great for energy, one is holding a Qi ball

and second palms facing earth. Standing would be foundation and I share the simple trick is not to hold so as your teacher told far apart but hold the hand as far as there is pressure felt in the hands which is minimal (especially if you are a energtic brick - 1mm). This rule especially apply for those without teachers with

energetic transmission or natural having.

 

Awareness is a great foundation and foundation of itself.

The question awareness for what?

Since I told about the pre exercises , they do not look so perfect and excellent like those of the teachers on learned as graceful walking perfectly is preceed by stumble around the place.

 

I question I asked me when I do something new practise :

"How it is done if I am not so good as this teacher, and how do I do this?"

 

Also I told the energtic and body aspect but the emotianal and spiritual aspects

foundation is observation, testing and refining or correction.

Awareness is one how one do it and asking if it is effective.

There are things which hold one back from the exercise, maybe the lineage, the teacher, the group, the lineageenergy, your reaction, your vulnerability to them etc.

 

Findings are when one do the exercise and the sense is open to receive the transmission. "The exercise will talk like a book" (strange analogy but I want to say how difficult it is to make a book talk if one is not Chuck Norris and will throw away the book like the bible when the missionary came to middle america telling gods word are in this book, and the great ruler hold it to ear and throw away and said he not hear anything but he and his ancestor talked with waterfalls, trees and mountains.

I think the priest felt perplexed...) by repeating and one gain insights

of what was before and what was behind and read a fractal and not what is obvious.

So there is a slight change without break the laws of the instruction.

 

The exercise is more like a living thing and the instruction for a living things

allows the question "What has to be done which is not forbidden by the instruction

or mentioned anc can be done?"

 

One of the problem of pre exercise of foundation training is.

They are found by doing the Foundation and understanding other teachings universal principle. When doing the Foundation it more like "one move backward to move forward"

a paradox but it is.

 

"Ox riding"

 

It is indeed like riding an Ox backwards, move forward by see backward, as

if you sit and look back everything that pass you is slower than when you face forward so you can perceive more and still see what is passed and get a greater picture with further travel. Things you can not see anymore are anyway still alive in the detailed memory because of the time one had for the pereption of

 

So far first.

 

Best,

Q

[Vmarco]

Ah! But what does Vmarco say?

 

"You will never realize Who you are, without understanding When you are" VMarco

[Mokona]

My favorite saying is: "A wink is the same as a nod to a blind horse." Becuase I often work with people who make mistakes or have personalities that make me really frustrated.

 

As for foundations, a quiet mind - and the Secret Smile. Still working on both. They just seem to be spring platforms to work from in meditation and qigong.(to me at least)

[johndoe2012]

Dudjom Tersar Ngondro

 

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Dudjom_Tersar_Ng%C3%B6ndro (wiki explains...)

 

The guidebook: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1306169.Ngondro_Commentary

 

Depends which tradition one wants to keep to. But all Ngondro practices are efficacious, as in they are complete in themselves, meaning the Ngondros already contain both the foundation and the complete path to realization of Buddhahood, so calling it a preliminary practice is not altogether accurate.

 

Hope you can make a connection somewhere.

 

This is a good book. Contemplation of the four thoughts is a powerful practise in itself.