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Taiji Bum

Immortality Poll

Do you think physical immortality is possible?  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think physical immortality is possible?

    • Yea
      40
    • Nay
      21
  2. 2. Do you think the physical body can be transformed into one of pure energy?

    • Yea
      51
    • Nay
      10


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I'm horses to both. All traditions have saints and super saints who have lived extreme lives both physically and spiritually. Few more then the Indian traditions which are extremely old and have produced extreme adherents to extreme practices.

 

If physical immortality is possible we should see some of them walking around. A couple of schools and yes that one village deep in the himalayans where happy go lucky white haired folks frolic all day. The evidence exists only in legend. Every religion has a legend of an immortal or near immortal, its human nature. Living past 120 simply isn't human nature, its not in our genes. I think longevity break throughs are more likely to come from science then spirituality.

 

Nature needs our death to make room for future generations and change that a species needs. So it can grow and flourish. No change, no adaptability, no future.

 

As far as becoming pure energy. I don't think you mean like an atomic bomb that destroys a whole continent as body atoms are converted into base energy. Instead you mean become a happy emphemeral spirit? Shooting our essence and consciousness out of our bodies when we die?

 

Don't know. Maybe that can be investigated. Never any real proof, but on a personal level through spiritual practice and study we can come up with answers beyond hope and faith. Answers through our own first hand experience.

 

Some of the people on this board have had some experience with that kind thing. I'll keep going and see what I can pick up on the path.

 

Michael

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Sean Denty's recent forum entry has an interesting letter about this subject. I will defer to that thread.

 

But my personal answer would be: one and two are contradictions of each-other. If there is the second there is no need of the first.

 

#2 1st-

Becoming energy and transforming consciousness into other life forms seems likely to me after having experienced a few out of body, and near-death experiences.

 

#1-

I have seen no evidence of physical immortality in any life form on earth. The earth itself is due to be engulfed by the expansion of the sun in the far distant future. So there would have to be space travel to another solar system, in the mean time for an immortal earthling to survive that-- in a continuous physical form. So I guess since my mind is turning this way I am thinking these are scientifically and spiritually debatable propositions.

 

Again I would defer to the letter that Sean Denty posted earlier.

 

Still and all, I can't imagine such an incredibly ancient human to be viable, because the energy intake would eventually not be enough to maintain the ever-aging human body. I believe that everything has a life-span and if we live life in a way that benefits the whole of life of this planet, we will not be sorry to go on to new existances.

 

Which is a way of saying that we can achieve a kind of immortality by being wonderously giving of ourselves and our "god-given" talents while we are here.

 

Bach or Mozart are immortal this way, Bobby Dylan is likely a living immortal in this regard, Many, such as the founding fathers of the US of America, Confuscius or the likes of Shakespear and even Jerry Lewis, to say nothing of Jesus and Lao Tzu, may be seen today as immortal earthlings. And perhaps there is a life-span to that as well. Many one-time greats have been forgotten in our collective consciousness...So it may be that "Collective" consciousness is the key to such an incarnation...It is not answerable with my limited knowledge, but interesting to think about...

 

This planet may have produced many hundreds of such spiritualy immortal beings.

I for one look forward to jamming with Jimi on the next one, I don't plan on being late.

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I voted yes for immortality, but it depends on your definition, or mine. Immortality for hundreds and possibly thousands of years appears possible but immortality forever seems dubious.

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ITS ALL IN THE MIND. IF you beleive you are anti- aging and align the 8 fold path with that neurlingiuistic prograamming pattern (literal self hypnosis) and your phisiology, you have done this. Come on bums, this is simple and does not require debate. Yoga and Shamanic purification does this. Yoga is about hygeine. Purify the consiousness, physical body and thus heart.

 

Qigong is self hyponsis. If you do it, you can do anything and be enlightened.

 

Congradulations! :D

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My thought is: would I even want to be immortal? Immortality would imply locking in one's physical form (and possibly all the impulses, personality, etc. that goes along with it). Yet Taoist and Buddhist teachings point out that our true inner nature is formless, empty. This would be in my mind like trying to maintain a block of ice in warm river. If the true nature of that block of ice is to become free flowing water, then maintaining that block would be counterproductive.

 

However, I don't think it is possible. The one truth that I've found over and over again is the truth of impermanence. I'm not the same person I was five years ago, a week ago, moments ago when I was in my car drinking coffee. Putting an individual against impermanence, I'd put my money on impermanence. And I wouldn't want it any other way: I wouldn't want this same body, these thoughts, my current state forever. I want it to change, to grow, to evolve.

 

Another thing to consider is attachment. Pursuing physical immortality would create a long-standing attachment to one's body (i.e. form in the 5 skandhas). Assuming arguendo that the "moment of death" theory is valid, imagine some one who's life, however long, has been dedicated to avoiding death. Not only would that individual suffer upon facing death, put they would have a "karmic" attachment that could set them back eons.

 

Besides, whether one lives ten years or a thousand years, when it is over it is all no more than a blink.

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I believe in Immortals wholeheartedly. I "pray" to and for them daily. It is not logical. But ya know what? Logic is not the be-all end-all means for understanding the universe.

 

As for pure energy couldn't you say that we are already pure energy?

 

We are essentially congealed stardust blessed with many levels of awareness, latent and potential. Is there anything that isn't pure energy? Even coarse energy is pure because it is 100% energy.

That's the way I see it until I'm convinced otherwise.

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Are we really in a position to define immortality? After a certain point all this speculation must have some kind of self distruct mechanism... or not :blink:

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The Tao gave birth to One.

The One gave birth to Two.

The Two gave birth to Three.

The Three gave birth to all of creation.

 

All movement returns to the Tao.

Weakness is how the Tao works.

 

All of creation is born from substance.

Substance is born of nothing-ness.

 

That is the nature of Taoist immortality

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Like others have said it depends on definition. Can "you" or "I" "live" forever, doubt it. But: "Being at one with the Tao is eternal, though the body dies, the Tao lasts forever."

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I probably wouldn't know an immortal if I tripped over one.

(not in the mushroom sense :D )

How would anyone know if they have met an immortal

or if a being is one.

There are many things I couldn't perceive until I got to a certain

stage in life or in whatever training or level of awareness I was pursuing.

I could then see where I had come from and the level of those without

my experience - knowledge but I couldn't quite see where I was going.

From this I would conclude only an Immortal can know an Immortal

Edited by mYTHmAKER

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If we follow this line of thinking, then at some point we have to accept that we don't really know anything for sure.

 

Yep

 

Jesus and Buddha performed all manner of miracle; healing the sick and raising the dead, etc...

 

That's how the story goes.

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My point is that I don't believe it. Why are we always looking for so called miracles when our being here in this time and place is miracle enough in itself.

The world as it is is a miracle.

A wise person once said " why are you trying to see with your ears hear with your nose and smell

with your eyes when the true miracle is that you see with your eyes hear with your ears and smell

with your nose."

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And yet there is more... All beings desire true happiness. This is why the great saints and sages, out of compassion, have tried to share the secrets of life with humanity. Self realization and enlightenment are hard won achievements that require blood, sweat and tears, not some 'Here and Now' cliche. How many can truly quiet the mind, be in the 'now' and remain in harmony? When we are really honest, it's clear that only the few who truly discipline themselves have achieved such things. To believe otherwise is just pride.

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And yet there is more... All beings desire true happiness. This is why the great saints and sages, out of compassion, have tried to share the secrets of life with humanity. Self realization and enlightenment are hard won achievements that require blood, sweat and tears, not some 'Here and Now' cliche. How many can truly quiet the mind, be in the 'now' and remain in harmony? When we are really honest, it's clear that only the few who truly discipline themselves have achieved such things. To believe otherwise is just pride.

 

Here and now is hardly a cliche. It is being present.

Not many can achieve it. It just might be enlightened state.

I agree it takes effort

 

I believe in saints, holy men, women but I think we are pushing the envelope when we

have them walking on water and having virgin births.

History is written or I should say rewritten to control people.

 

I don't believe in giving my power away.

 

I would love to see a video clip of David in motion

to see the way he moves.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

It would be greatly appreciated

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Sorry, but your rather bizzare request is not something I would be willing to provide even if I could.

 

S

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Sorry, but your rather bizzare request is not something I would be willing to provide even if I could.

 

S

 

Why is it rather bazzare.

You have been speaking of David and his training expecting everyone to

take it on blind faith.

Just as the teacher sees if the student is worthy, the student should check out the teacher,

not take the word of someone he doesn't know.

By seeing someone move you can tell a lot.

For instance looking at John Changs video I see relaxed graceful movement,

a quality of softness and connectedness, a being centered and at home in his body.

This makes me think he is for real.

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By reading David's posts I see highly refined energy behind it- it doesn't even matter what he says.

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