Aaron Posted August 30, 2011 Hello folks, Recently I have been having some very amazing experiences in regard to my personal journey. In a few days I feel like I have gone leaps and bounds beyond where I was just a week ago. My understanding of the world on a fundamental level is changing, but when I try to explain it to my family and friends, they look at me like I'm crazy. I'm sure many people here who've read my descriptions in other threads may also feel the same. All I can say is that this strange experience has given me more... more of what I can't even say, there really is no word to describe it. I could call it amazing and I have, but it's not amazing, I know that, rather it is very mundane, I just never realized it before so it seems at first quite more than it is. I am toning down my meditations as a result because I feel to push too fast would be the wrong course of action, but rather I need to take this gradually. Currently I am meditating in an attempt to find the source of emotion and thought. I thought I had found it before, but now I realize that I had found what I had wanted to find, that the real source is deeper within and it is not within me at all, at least not my body, but rather it stems from something much deeper in the cosmos, mind, source, whatever you want to call it. I would be happy to hear of others experiences in this regard. I have already touched on what I've been experiencing in other threads, so I will not repeat myself, but I do feel it would be wise to seek the council of others in this regard, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Just as an aside, this does not feel like a taoist or buddhist experience, rather it feels like something much more free, like within it there is nothing but the beginning and end. For the sake of brevity, I will leave it at that. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non Posted August 30, 2011 self-inquiry/atma vichara? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otis Posted August 30, 2011 I'm glad you're finding new freedom in your exploration, Aaron. Currently I am meditating in an attempt to find the source of emotion and thought. I thought I had found it before, but now I realize that I had found what I had wanted to find, that the real source is deeper within and it is not within me at all, at least not my body, but rather it stems from something much deeper in the cosmos, mind, source, whatever you want to call it. I'm curious. Why do you say that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Informer Posted August 30, 2011 See that it is not a part of you but you a part of it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 30, 2011 Yes Aaron, you are crazy. Hehehe. I understand what you are saying but you know I won't go there in any discussion. The point is that if you are finding peace in your journey then it is good. However, it is still important to keep one foot firmly planted in the manifest reality. Afterall, that is where our physical body lives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted August 30, 2011 i think life is crazy. i don't think that the nature of reality conforms to any definition of sanity. i think too that thoughts and feelings float around. we are conduits for these things but they can be looked at as both ours and not ours. ours while they are ours for as long as we want to nurture them. but not ours when we want to let them go, and quite likely, not originating in or of us. in my world thoughts and feelings are purely elemental, expressions of air and water respectively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Way Is Virtue Posted August 30, 2011 Hi Twinner. Maybe this will be of some help: "The Sage uses his mind like a mirror. It remains in its place passively... " Zhuang Zi Best wishes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldisheavy Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Hello folks, Recently I have been having some very amazing experiences in regard to my personal journey. In a few days I feel like I have gone leaps and bounds beyond where I was just a week ago. My understanding of the world on a fundamental level is changing, but when I try to explain it to my family and friends, they look at me like I'm crazy. I'm sure many people here who've read my descriptions in other threads may also feel the same. All I can say is that this strange experience has given me more... more of what I can't even say, there really is no word to describe it. I could call it amazing and I have, but it's not amazing, I know that, rather it is very mundane, I just never realized it before so it seems at first quite more than it is. I am toning down my meditations as a result because I feel to push too fast would be the wrong course of action, but rather I need to take this gradually. Currently I am meditating in an attempt to find the source of emotion and thought. I thought I had found it before, but now I realize that I had found what I had wanted to find, that the real source is deeper within and it is not within me at all, at least not my body, but rather it stems from something much deeper in the cosmos, mind, source, whatever you want to call it. I would be happy to hear of others experiences in this regard. I have already touched on what I've been experiencing in other threads, so I will not repeat myself, but I do feel it would be wise to seek the council of others in this regard, so any input would be greatly appreciated. I don't think you should change anything. Do what you are doing. Just as an aside, this does not feel like a taoist or buddhist experience, rather it feels like something much more free, like within it there is nothing but the beginning and end. For the sake of brevity, I will leave it at that. Aaron Give it 5 seconds, and people will frame your experience in Buddhist and Taoist terms in order to legitimize it. Alternatively, they'll find no way to do so, and will state that your experience is illegitimate. In my experience all traditions lie at least somewhat, if not a great deal. All the descriptions they provide are inadequate or worse, downright false and deceptive. When you're at the edge of contemplation, you're on your own. Tradition cannot help you at all. Traditions are helpful for those who are just beginning. Traditions get in the way of experienced contemplators. Why? Because when you're contemplating at a deep level, you're investigating way beyond convention. You're close to the source of the dream, and the dream's contents are no longer applicable. Traditions are just dream contents. They are not wisdom. The role of tradition is to form the basis for social groups and to maintain convention. Don't forget. If you try to match your experience to this or that tradition, you'll be severely hamstrung. It's like walking around with a ball and a chain. Free yourself. The downside is that it can be hard to discuss what you're knowing and feeling, because traditions provide vocabulary and frameworks for discussion (even if it's a deceptive and inaccurate one, it feels like you're sharing something, when in fact you're not). You may need to develop your own vocabulary if you're still interested in talking, but if you do that, you risk forming a new tradition. And while it will be fun for you, if you formalize your thought it will later harm and delay other people's progress. At "high" levels experience is very abstract. You know what you're experiencing, but it's so far away from the concrete world that it's hard to verbalize. The only thing you can do is deny this or that bogus assumption you catch people engaging in. Edited August 30, 2011 by goldisheavy 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted August 31, 2011 I don't think you should change anything. Do what you are doing. Give it 5 seconds, and people will frame your experience in Buddhist and Taoist terms in order to legitimize it. Alternatively, they'll find no way to do so, and will state that your experience is illegitimate. In my experience all traditions lie at least somewhat, if not a great deal. All the descriptions they provide are inadequate or worse, downright false and deceptive. When you're at the edge of contemplation, you're on your own. Tradition cannot help you at all. Traditions are helpful for those who are just beginning. Traditions get in the way of experienced contemplators. Why? Because when you're contemplating at a deep level, you're investigating way beyond convention. You're close to the source of the dream, and the dream's contents are no longer applicable. Traditions are just dream contents. They are not wisdom. The role of tradition is to form the basis for social groups and to maintain convention. Don't forget. If you try to match your experience to this or that tradition, you'll be severely hamstrung. It's like walking around with a ball and a chain. Free yourself. The downside is that it can be hard to discuss what you're knowing and feeling, because traditions provide vocabulary and frameworks for discussion (even if it's a deceptive and inaccurate one, it feels like you're sharing something, when in fact you're not). You may need to develop your own vocabulary if you're still interested in talking, but if you do that, you risk forming a new tradition. And while it will be fun for you, if you formalize your thought it will later harm and delay other people's progress. At "high" levels experience is very abstract. You know what you're experiencing, but it's so far away from the concrete world that it's hard to verbalize. The only thing you can do is deny this or that bogus assumption you catch people engaging in. Yey for GIH! Yes, counts as cheerleading. Another reason not to talk to people about these things :-) Oh, I should add, Aaaron, as soon as you're back from it, you 'may' wish to reassure your former self about what 'really' happened. Don't let yourself get caught by the ists Or GIH, or myself for that matter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Edited- Nothing I say will explain it the way it should, so it's best not to say anything. I've found something else and that's all I can say. Aaron Edited August 31, 2011 by Twinner 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Todd Posted August 31, 2011 Hello folks, Recently I have been having some very amazing experiences in regard to my personal journey. In a few days I feel like I have gone leaps and bounds beyond where I was just a week ago. My understanding of the world on a fundamental level is changing, but when I try to explain it to my family and friends, they look at me like I'm crazy. I'm sure many people here who've read my descriptions in other threads may also feel the same. All I can say is that this strange experience has given me more... more of what I can't even say, there really is no word to describe it. I could call it amazing and I have, but it's not amazing, I know that, rather it is very mundane, I just never realized it before so it seems at first quite more than it is. I am toning down my meditations as a result because I feel to push too fast would be the wrong course of action, but rather I need to take this gradually. Currently I am meditating in an attempt to find the source of emotion and thought. I thought I had found it before, but now I realize that I had found what I had wanted to find, that the real source is deeper within and it is not within me at all, at least not my body, but rather it stems from something much deeper in the cosmos, mind, source, whatever you want to call it. I would be happy to hear of others experiences in this regard. I have already touched on what I've been experiencing in other threads, so I will not repeat myself, but I do feel it would be wise to seek the council of others in this regard, so any input would be greatly appreciated. You sound pretty sane to me. Just as an aside, this does not feel like a taoist or buddhist experience, rather it feels like something much more free, like within it there is nothing but the beginning and end. For the sake of brevity, I will leave it at that. As my teacher's teacher said, "That's the whole point!" Yes, I appreciate the irony of that statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted August 31, 2011 Congratulations. It sounds to me like you have been turned upside down, welcome to the real world! My teacher used to say that the mind creates the brain at the moment of conception. I know people think their mind is in their brain or their head, but it isn't. -Adam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldisheavy Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Yey for GIH! Yes, counts as cheerleading. Another reason not to talk to people about these things :-) Oh, I should add, Aaaron, as soon as you're back from it, you 'may' wish to reassure your former self about what 'really' happened. Don't let yourself get caught by the ists Or GIH, or myself for that matter Ooops... did I come off that extreme? I think it's fine to talk about one's personal experiences. I even think it's a good idea. I just think we should allow some room for individuality and not try to hammer every single experience into some traditional framework. I know some Buddhists who would immediately try to assign a jhana number to this one or just outright dismiss it. They go, oh, yea, based on that description that's 2nd jhana. Screw everything about that. No it's not. In fact jhana do not really exist as such. Describing deeply personal internal experiences in concrete terms as if they were public perceptions like trees and chairs is a huge mistake. It doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about these things. It's all about expectations. If the expectations are not out of whack, then it's good to talk about spiritual experiences. If we expect to box and bin every experience into a formal framework, then we do harm to ourselves and everyone around us. Edited August 31, 2011 by goldisheavy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted September 1, 2011 One thing I've realized is that my true nature is always there, regardless of what I do. If I feel that I am somehow not "real" or that what I am feeling is "unreal" it is because I choose to feel that. This may be caused by my inability to accept the feeling, or a preconceived notion of what is acceptable and unacceptable. The key to finding acceptance is understanding that all physical things are transient states, that the only eternal is what forms these things. These physical things, although they appear to be cut off from the eternal, are never cut off from it and all things eventually return to it, to be reformed. It is from this reformation that is eternal. The me that comes afterwards may not be a "me" at all, it may very well be a rock or drop of water, but it will still be me. That is the beauty of it, accepting that even if the universe is transient, there is something eternal, and from that we will continue, even if it's not in the form we've been taught to desire and want. Acceptance for me is knowing that so long as the eternal exists, I exist as well. So now that I have come back I look at my experience and understand what really happened was that my awareness of myself has expanded, that I am not here and I am here, that the world is not an illusion, but rather the transient state that we exist in. Aaron 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 1, 2011 One thing I've realized ... Well, Okay. I can even agree with what you have said. (I would use different words, of course, but that doesn't matter.) But we must never forget to enjoy this beautiful life we have been afforded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted September 1, 2011 Ooops... did I come off that extreme? I think it's fine to talk about one's personal experiences. I even think it's a good idea. I just think we should allow some room for individuality and not try to hammer every single experience into some traditional framework. I know some Buddhists who would immediately try to assign a jhana number to this one or just outright dismiss it. They go, oh, yea, based on that description that's 2nd jhana. Screw everything about that. No it's not. In fact jhana do not really exist as such. Describing deeply personal internal experiences in concrete terms as if they were public perceptions like trees and chairs is a huge mistake. It doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about these things. It's all about expectations. If the expectations are not out of whack, then it's good to talk about spiritual experiences. If we expect to box and bin every experience into a formal framework, then we do harm to ourselves and everyone around us. Oh? I didn't find it extreme at all, quite to the contrary. I suppose because I've personally (yes, me) had enough of the -ists offering up their own particular brand of 'catch all' to folks that experience what I'd call 'extreme' stuff in meditation (not a negative judgement BTW, plus I should talk with all my sharing of weirdness on here ) In fact, the extent to which they seem to know the experiential meditative terrain is IMO/IME scary " It's all about expectations" - and, I'd offer, giving over your own sense of subjectivity and personal experience to someone else's descriptions. Look, only recently there was a poster here asking 'What should I think?' or something to that effect, not 'What do you think?', if you get my drift? While I believe that's a self-comforting thing to do when you've just got back from dropping off into some kind of void (or having your heart broken by a ruthless woman) I think it becomes a trap in the long run, which I suppose the big B himself referred to in several of his sayings, calling this stuff a 'vehicle' n all. But I happen to be biased in the non-religious sense and so there you go :-) Open-source, I say :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted September 2, 2011 One thing I've realized is that my true nature is always there, regardless of what I do. If I feel that I am somehow not "real" or that what I am feeling is "unreal" it is because I choose to feel that. This may be caused by my inability to accept the feeling, or a preconceived notion of what is acceptable and unacceptable. The key to finding acceptance is understanding that all physical things are transient states, that the only eternal is what forms these things. These physical things, although they appear to be cut off from the eternal, are never cut off from it and all things eventually return to it, to be reformed. It is from this reformation that is eternal. The me that comes afterwards may not be a "me" at all, it may very well be a rock or drop of water, but it will still be me. That is the beauty of it, accepting that even if the universe is transient, there is something eternal, and from that we will continue, even if it's not in the form we've been taught to desire and want. Acceptance for me is knowing that so long as the eternal exists, I exist as well. So now that I have come back I look at my experience and understand what really happened was that my awareness of myself has expanded, that I am not here and I am here, that the world is not an illusion, but rather the transient state that we exist in. Aaron You should reread that everyday for 1 month and rewrite it over and over again untill you have the most abstract text. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. So we let go of this reality, as if ready for death with open arms. Then our consciousness goes to a higher/deeper place. I do not know why, but it happens. We observe the secrets in what seems to be something like a 4 dimension. A lucid dream, out of body experience, revelation, whatever. I think you should use this secret knowledge you have attained to your advantage in this manifested reality. For example, completely focus believing in good things, to make it grow like a tumor untikk you orgasm. It is difficult to handle such great power that comes with this secret knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) Edited- Nothing I say will explain it the way it should, so it's best not to say anything. I've found something else and that's all I can say. Aaron Indeed, i understand...that's often how these things are...beyond words. Edited September 2, 2011 by OldGreen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that Posted September 2, 2011 i think life is crazy. i don't think that the nature of reality conforms to any definition of sanity. i think too that thoughts and feelings float around. we are conduits for these things but they can be looked at as both ours and not ours. ours while they are ours for as long as we want to nurture them. but not ours when we want to let them go, and quite likely, not originating in or of us. in my world thoughts and feelings are purely elemental, expressions of air and water respectively. You cheeky bugger....... I go away for a while and someone pilfers my animated yin yang! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) You cheeky bugger....... I go away for a while and someone pilfers my animated yin yang! hahaha its not yours its just an avatar Edited September 2, 2011 by anamatva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 2, 2011 hahaha its not yours its just an avatar Nothing is ours. We are just the caretakers for a little while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted September 3, 2011 Nothing is ours. We are just the caretakers for a little while. hehe that things all over the interwebz. im not attached tho, i'll find a different picture if ninjaman is going to be sad. actually i tried to upload a different picture but that thing is still spinning. haha it likes me more than i like it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 3, 2011 hehe that things all over the interwebz. im not attached tho, i'll find a different picture if ninjaman is going to be sad. actually i tried to upload a different picture but that thing is still spinning. haha it likes me more than i like it Hehehe. What's taht saying? Things in motion tend to remain in motion and things at rest tend to remain at rest. Too much spinning makes one dizzy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted September 3, 2011 Hehehe. What's taht saying? Things in motion tend to remain in motion and things at rest tend to remain at rest. Too much spinning makes one dizzy. unless you are a sufi! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 3, 2011 unless you are a sufi! If you say so. Hehehe. (Yes, I know that some people can spin more than others can. Something to do with the amount of fluid in the inner ear and brain.) (But then, I suppose that training can expand the limits.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
