Opening the Kundalini: How?

[宁]

Little1, I'm giving you a big hug. I love ya and only have good thoughts for you buddy. I believe in you.. go get 'em tiger!

 

Hey cut that out or I'm'nna go back to my post, edit it and add:

'Drummy' and 'Celestial' ... in front of 'Teutonic'

 

Honestly man, your titles are too funny... they remind me of this guy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgM1uSICtE

[宁]

Rainbow, that wasn't an off topic,

i understood more from it that from this whole thread!

The wisdom!!

[fiveelementtao]

Hey cut that out or I'm'nna go back to my post, edit it and add:

'Drummy' and 'Celestial' ... in front of 'Teutonic'

 

Honestly man, your titles are too funny... they remind me of this guy:

 

In all seriousness... If you want me stop telling you I love you and wish the best for you then...Don't draw first blood.

 

Until then, everytime you take a personal pot shot at me, instead of being hurt, (which it does. So, if your motive is to hurt my feelings... it's working. To my knowledge I have never personally attacked you. I don't know you and yet you love to take personal pot shots at me.) So, instead of hitting back, the only way I know how to deal with the emotional hurt I feel from your insults is to see you as an angry little boy who didn't get enough love from his parents. Maybe it's not true but your actions remind me of that. So, I mean everything I say. I love you and only wish the best for you.

 

But until such time, everytime you personally insult or attack me I will think and say,

"I have nothing but good thoughts and love for you my friend."

 

Eventually you will either believe me and no longer feel the need to insult me or you will get tired of hearing it and stop with the insults. In any case, you will stop with the personal insults and that is what I want from you...

[fiveelementtao]

Thanks Cowtao for your observations. I think what I have realized is that I have very strong feelings about Mother Kundalini. And I have strong reactions to what I perceive as discussions where She is being talked about disrespectfully in the 3rd person.

 

One reason I have not taught anything about Kundalini is because I realize that I really DO see Her as my Divine Mother and my Goddess and so I feel it would be disrespectful of me to teach Kundalini "techniques". I prefer that people find a deity and worship Her. And IMO deity worship isn't something one teaches like qigong or meditation. But I would rather introduce Her as one does his/her own Mother. Not only because that is a safe and effective method, but because She deserves it. And I realize now that I have a visceral, angry reaction when I perceive Her as being tossed around as a party favor or some impersonal energy that one can use for personal entertainment. This is of course my projection, but I am not entirely incorrect about this in some instances.

 

There are a few threads in this forum of people wanting to awaken kundalini or those who have used energy techniques in a blind attempt to have some energy experience or gain some siddhi and then found themselves in serious trouble. One big problem as I see it is that many people who talk about Kundalini and even teach Kundalini techniques seem to only have experienced her in the accidental or passive way which results in a completely different experience of Her. And then one is left with only damage control techniques and misunderstanding about Her true purpose in our lives. Without a context within which to Awaken Her properly, then one is forced to simply do damage control. And I find that to be very sad. Not to mention unnecessary.

 

There are other ways...

 

So, I guess a better use of my energy is, instead of waiting until some thread or post about Kundalini pushes my buttons and I react in aggressive ways. Perhaps I should put my energy into actually teaching what I know about Kundalini in other venues instead of wasting that energy in forum rants...

 

Sometimes anger is pointing the way in which one should go...

 

My apologies to any all who were offended by my words in any way...

[Birch]

" I feel it would be disrespectful of me to teach Kundalini "techniques"."

 

I get that, but what if She wants you to? I mean, if you happen to know the cure for a terrible disease, do you just tell everyone you know what it is but you're not telling?

 

The reason I wouldn't teach 'techniques' myself is because a)I don't know them all enough to say I have the necessary expertise to pick and choose for any given person and b ) I wouldn't want to feel responsible for people going through the kind of difficulties that I feel I did.

 

I wouldn't want it on my conscience. One could argue that it's entirely up to the individual to pursue it or not. At a level, one is pursuing oneself. As far as I can see, telling people not to do it, only fuels their desire to do it anyway. And indeed, from my POV while we ought to be at a point where each adult can take full responsibility for all of their choices, practices included, I wonder just how much of that is really the case? In fact I'd start with that part first before I even got near K.

 

And let's not forget the hoarding of practices for various reasons.

 

5ET, IMO we're living in a culture of hurt children. And IME, having a second chance at having a 'mother' who cares enough to see you grow unhindered is something I wouldn't want to hold back on for myself.

Edited June 8, 2011 by -K-

[C T]

 

 

There are a few threads in this forum of people wanting to awaken kundalini or those who have used energy techniques in a blind attempt to have some energy experience or gain some siddhi and then found themselves in serious trouble. One big problem as I see it is that many people who talk about Kundalini and even teach Kundalini techniques seem to only have experienced her in the accidental or passive way which results in a completely different experience of Her. And then one is left with only damage control techniques and misunderstanding about Her true purpose in our lives. Without a context within which to Awaken Her properly, then one is forced to simply do damage control. And I find that to be very sad. Not to mention unnecessary.

 

Your concern here is very much a real and justifiable one, 5ET. Too much too soon and trouble looms.

 

I deeply appreciate your efforts to highlight the potential pitfalls to those who care enough to listen, and also your perseverance in offering your guidance so unselfishly.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

ct

[ShaktiMama]

" I feel it would be disrespectful of me to teach Kundalini "techniques"."

 

I get that, but what if She wants you to? I mean, if you happen to know the cure for a terrible disease, do you just tell everyone you know what it is but you're not telling?

 

The reason I wouldn't teach 'techniques' myself is because a)I don't know them all enough to say I have the necessary expertise to pick and choose for any given person and b ) I wouldn't want to feel responsible for people going through the kind of difficulties that I feel I did.

 

I wouldn't want it on my conscience. One could argue that it's entirely up to the individual to pursue it or not. At a level, one is pursuing oneself. As far as I can see, telling people not to do it, only fuels their desire to do it anyway. And indeed, from my POV while we ought to be at a point where each adult can take full responsibility for all of their choices, practices included, I wonder just how much of that is really the case? In fact I'd start with that part first before I even got near K.

 

And let's not forget the hoarding of practices for various reasons.

 

5ET, IMO we're living in a culture of hurt children. And IME, having a second chance at having a 'mother' who cares enough to see you grow unhindered is something I wouldn't want to hold back on for myself.

 

yes, some us (at least those of us who are KAP instructors) feel compelled to teach. just when my human self wants to pack up and say "f**k it, I am packing up my toys and going home," Mother Shakti softens my heart into warm puddle of love and tells me "just keep going, continue. All are my children. They need to know." I sulk for awhile, have a little pity party, and jump back in because I love being in the good graces of Mama Shakti.

[fiveelementtao]

Hi K,

It is not my intention to tell anyone not to do anything. If I have come across that way, then that is my fault in not communicating my intentions clearly. Wouldn't be the first time... As I said, I have come to realize that I was unconsciously communicating anger...

 

However, I laid out some pretty clear instructions on how to awaken Kundalini in this post. Through a combination of ritual, mantra, tantra and meditation. That seemed to ruffle some feathers for some reason...

 

I myself do teach Kundalini practices, but I do so from within a ritual context. The free HUUL breath meditation I teach online is a kundalini practice. If someone were to practice that meditation and mantra with intent, it will awaken kundalini. But you have the diety to guide you through the process. And the deity IS the Kundalini. But instead of having random energy symptoms, the individual only experiences a communion with the goddess. So, there is no need to advertise it as Kundalini practice because the Kundalini rises naturally as a result of the practice. Any Goddess or deity worship will awaken Kundalini. and as I said before, the deity becomes the vessel through which the Kundalini expresses Herself and is very safe. Without that the Kundalini has no way to interface with the human personality and this can cause many of the problematic symptoms people associate with Kundalini awakening.

 

I wouldn't want to feel responsible for people going through the kind of difficulties that I feel I did.

 

I don't know the context of this statement, but it appears to fit within my definition of accidental, spontaneous or passive kundalini awakening. While it is actually a very good thing that there are teachers familiar with dealing with this. This is what I define as "damage control." As I said earlier, the reason why this is not the desired path is because without the framework of a deity to control the Shakti, it is chaotic and can be very destructive. So, from what I can tell alot of the modern western Kundalini technique oriented practices, that we have alot of people awakening their Kundalini in this fashion.

 

I agree with you that we need a second chance of a relationship to the Mother and I encourage that. I am encouraging Kundalini awakening. I just prefer the traditional method of deity worship and ritual.

 

Shamanism does this or any of the other traditions do this. Qigong, meditation and all the energy stuff we modern westerners play around with now was originally done from within a shamanic or animist framework. IME, energy practices are more powerful safe and fulfilling from within these frameworks...

 

I don;t know if I addressed your statement or not...

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

" I feel it would be disrespectful of me to teach Kundalini "techniques"."

 

I get that, but what if She wants you to? I mean, if you happen to know the cure for a terrible disease, do you just tell everyone you know what it is but you're not telling?

 

The reason I wouldn't teach 'techniques' myself is because a)I don't know them all enough to say I have the necessary expertise to pick and choose for any given person and b ) I wouldn't want to feel responsible for people going through the kind of difficulties that I feel I did.

 

I wouldn't want it on my conscience. One could argue that it's entirely up to the individual to pursue it or not. At a level, one is pursuing oneself. As far as I can see, telling people not to do it, only fuels their desire to do it anyway. And indeed, from my POV while we ought to be at a point where each adult can take full responsibility for all of their choices, practices included, I wonder just how much of that is really the case? In fact I'd start with that part first before I even got near K.

 

And let's not forget the hoarding of practices for various reasons.

 

5ET, IMO we're living in a culture of hurt children. And IME, having a second chance at having a 'mother' who cares enough to see you grow unhindered is something I wouldn't want to hold back on for myself.

[Vajrahridaya]

yes, some us (at least those of us who are KAP instructors) feel compelled to teach. just when my human self wants to pack up and say "f**k it, I am packing up my toys and going home," Mother Shakti softens my heart into warm puddle of love and tells me "just keep going, continue. All are my children. They need to know." I sulk for awhile, have a little pity party, and jump back in because I love being in the good graces of Mama Shakti.

 

You know that there is no inherent mother shakti talking to you right? You know that these are merely your own karmas manifesting a kind of dualistic approach to the experience for the sake of conversation with the level of your current program of comprehension of the experience itself... yes?

 

It's still originated dependently, you are not being coerced by some essential universal nature to do these things... it's just your mind talking to your mind through the subconscious conditionings of a monistic idealism... yeah?

 

I'm just saying... keep feeling soft hearted and go with the love though.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[ShaktiMama]

You know that there is no inherent mother shakti talking to you right? You know that these are merely your own karmas manifesting a kind of dualistic approach to the experience for the sake of conversation with the level of your current program of comprehension of the experience itself... yes?

 

It's still originated dependently, you are not being coerced by some essential universal nature to do these things... it's just your mind talking to your mind through the subconscious conditionings of a monistic idealism... yeah?

 

I'm just saying... keep feeling soft hearted and go with the love though.

 

 

 

 

hah! stop it!

 

ssssssshhhhhhh..... LMAO

 

there is much known and of no words to describe but i speak at a level where more familiarity is known. It is easy enough to alienate people by insisting on certitude...i prefer being of service in a way that fits with my gifts....and I don't have the vocabulary to describe that which cannot be described.

 

i am not interested in standing out amongst the crowd even more. I am more concerned with being relatable for being of service. That means I meet people where they are at.

 

I don't want to speak to the few but the many. So many hurt and Mama archetype is so comforting. Let people make their own discoveries. Some are ready for meat but far more can only digest milk or at least bread and veggies.

 

 

Some people will die for Truth or harm for exactness. So many more just want to be loved and comforted.

[henro]

There are a few threads in this forum of people wanting to awaken kundalini or those who have used energy techniques in a blind attempt to have some energy experience or gain some siddhi and then found themselves in serious trouble. One big problem as I see it is that many people who talk about Kundalini and even teach Kundalini techniques seem to only have experienced her in the accidental or passive way which results in a completely different experience of Her. And then one is left with only damage control techniques and misunderstanding about Her true purpose in our lives. Without a context within which to Awaken Her properly, then one is forced to simply do damage control. And I find that to be very sad. Not to mention unnecessary.

 

There are other ways...

 

So, I guess a better use of my energy is, instead of waiting until some thread or post about Kundalini pushes my buttons and I react in aggressive ways. Perhaps I should put my energy into actually teaching what I know about Kundalini in other venues instead of wasting that energy in forum rants...

 

Sometimes anger is pointing the way in which one should go...

 

My apologies to any all who were offended by my words in any way...

 

No apologies needed. Great post, and I completely agree. There are so many deep energy practices discussed on these forums that really need to be approached with reverence, and with a qualified teacher. I personally feel that awakening kundalini is one of them. Pursuing it without a solid foundation, and cleaning your "house", can be a dangerous pursuit.

[Vajrahridaya]

hah! stop it!

 

ssssssshhhhhhh..... LMAO

 

there is much known and of no words to describe but i speak at a level where more familiarity is known. It is easy enough to alienate people by insisting on certitude...i prefer being of service in a way that fits with my gifts....and I don't have the vocabulary to describe that which cannot be described.

 

i am not interested in standing out amongst the crowd even more. I am more concerned with being relatable for being of service. That means I meet people where they are at.

 

I don't want to speak to the few but the many. So many hurt and Mama archetype is so comforting. Let people make their own discoveries. Some are ready for meat but far more can only digest milk or at least bread and veggies.

 

 

Some people will die for Truth or harm for exactness. So many more just want to be loved and comforted.

 

I know Mama... that's why I've always been on your side. I feel your love my dear... with a tear from my eye. Peace.

[Vajrahridaya]

Ooo... you explained that so well! Or should I say the universe through you just did that... LOL!!!

[de_paradise]

IMO, a basic thing that people can do to open their kundalini is to understand a basic principle: Stimulate your wind energy, then go deep as you can into meditation. This creates a higher-than average force, and then gets yourself out of the way of yourself so it can do what it wants to unblock and unlock.

 

For example: 5 minutes Pranayama breathing like dragon fire breath, then 20 minutes stillness meditation.

Or: 30 minutes visualizing orbits, then 30 minutes stillness.

1 hour yoga, 30 minutes sitting or laying.

30 minutes qigong, 30 minutes sitting and forgetting.

1 hour dancing, 1 hour stillness.

 

 

Many people think that if they just do the sizzle, they dont have to bother with the boring old bacon, the stillness.

 

I remember Bodri saying that most instructions on sexual practices leave out the key: you have to go into stillness after you get all stimulated on sex energies(you know, like going deeper and letting your conscious mind slide, and your brea-thing rythym regularize) Most people aparently only do the sex-stimulation bit, but forget the actual meditation, where the energies are allowed to do what they most want to do. If you jump up and do things of normal life the higher-than-average wind force gets blocked off.

 

If you are able to actually sit and do a very good stillness type of meditation for a long period of time, you can also deal with alot of the painful stuff (that so many people are oh so fearful of), that might crop up. You sit through it, a safety valve created by your own self.

 

Is this a magic pill that opens you up immeditately? No, but its a pretty common flaw in how people meditate, and it may take days weeks, months to get the intial energies stronger and blockages cleared out.

 

To the drama queens on this thread, you know people actually will search this thread because there are always people looking to open their kundalini, and they want real techniques.

Edited June 9, 2011 by de_paradise

[Sahaj Nath]

I know Mama... that's why I've always been on your side. I feel your love my dear... with a tear from my eye. Peace.

 

+1

 

often i wish i had your heart, Susan. even as a healer, my passion for Truth exceeds my compassion for suffering. it's a wonder that i'm successful at all. not to say that i am heartless, but i do have a ways to go before i reach your emotional depth.

 

believe me when i say i'm working on it.

[宁]

In all seriousness... If you want me stop telling you I love you and wish the best for you then...Don't draw first blood.

 

Until then, everytime you take a personal pot shot at me, instead of being hurt, (which it does. So, if your motive is to hurt my feelings... it's working. To my knowledge I have never personally attacked you. I don't know you and yet you love to take personal pot shots at me.) So, instead of hitting back, the only way I know how to deal with the emotional hurt I feel from your insults is to see you as an angry little boy who didn't get enough love from his parents. Maybe it's not true but your actions remind me of that. So, I mean everything I say. I love you and only wish the best for you.

 

But until such time, everytime you personally insult or attack me I will think and say,

"I have nothing but good thoughts and love for you my friend."

 

Eventually you will either believe me and no longer feel the need to insult me or you will get tired of hearing it and stop with the insults. In any case, you will stop with the personal insults and that is what I want from you...

 

More power to you, light warrior

edit: In most cultures, saying bad things about a person's father and mother is considered extremely disrespectful. To me, this only goes to show how low can you go; no surprise to me. QED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is very simmilar with all spiritual related phenomena, you feel something, and insist in your head that it must be 'kundalini' or who knows what.

And you keep insisting until you convince yourself, and then get others convinced. IMO, there is a HUGE difference between this... and really helping people spiritually.

 

Have you ever wondered if the sensations and phenomena are really what you intepret them to be? They could be entirely something else...

 

Because, let me state this, there are alot of people out there that have learned how to induce these phenomena relatively easy, and use that as an argument to sustain their wild spiritual theories!

If this is what is called spirituality, i'm better off playing basketball.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Little1

[tulku]

All codified post Buddha. I'm familiar with so many native stories, and like I said they are good and nice, but they don't manifest as well defined a map of the nature of the different levels of Samadhi/Jhana, the mis-steps that can happen, which many of these traditions fall into as the subconscious unravels and all sorts of manifestations become reflected through the sense perceivable world, or psychic world even. There is no clear definition of dependent origination/emptiness, just experiences as excuses for virtue, but not really a deep understanding of the nature of Samsaric cycling. All these traditions reify to an ultimate self standing existence, or a god of some sort, a true Self nature, this is not conducive to the same level of wisdom as the Buddhas teaching.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying other traditions didn't exist before the Buddha, of course they did, they just didn't clearly define the structure of methodology in a systematic fashion like the Buddha did. There were others post Buddha that did for different traditions. But even Socrates, who I'm a fan of, is post Buddha and didn't come to the same level of depth as the Buddha, but inspiring non-the-less.

 

I agree, they do inspire, and are clarified as to the meaning and source of their arisings from one level or another of the 31 realm model so well defined by Buddha.

 

Read this, since you seem to have an interest in Buddhism... 31 planes of existence

 

The creation stories from these different ancient traditions come from one level or another of these 31 planes and do not add up to the profound truth of dependent origination/emptiness.

 

There might be some taoist teachings before the age of the buddha which were codified in a systematic manner but they were very well-hidden and cloistered within secret esoteric societies.

 

This is the problem with the chinese, not only chinese in china but chinese elsewhere in the world as well. They hide the most important spiritual teachings so well that these teachings might as well be non-existent to the general public. Look at John Chang and Mo Pai. He is a great example of how selfish most chinese people are. The Chinese reserve the secret teachings for their own families and inner circle of friends and relatives so if you aren't lucky enough to reincarnate into such an inner circle, tough luck!

 

You should say that Buddhism, especially Vajrayana Buddhism, should be the first codified school of buddhahood which is open to the public. And Buddhism does not demand its students to pay exhorbitant sums of money unlike the taoists. This is the major reason why the core of Buddhism teachings has managed to survive despite too many tribulations in the past.

 

This is also why you can't easily find authentic Taoist teachings available to the general public nowadays. Of course some in here might quote Wang Liping and Mantak Chia but seriously, Mantak Chia has only appeared on the scene within the last few decades and Wang Liping? Man I only heard of this guy since last year. Not to knock on Mantak Chia or Wang Liping but how many of their students have achieved buddhahood or reached the tao or whatever you called enlightenment?

 

On the other hand, Buddhism has had a number of figures who had achieved buddhahood. Taoism? The only things which Taoist magick is good for are career, family, love and all these other material things in life. But if you want enlightenment or buddhahood, most Taoist shamans are just gonna shrug their shoulders and say the art of immortality or getting the tao is only a legend.

 

So if anyone in here want a certified, proven, method of attaining buddhahood, I would say buddhism is the only way to go. Unless Mantak Chia and his students start transforming their bodies into light on youtube. Then I will say, Wow! Taoism has finally established a proven system of buddhahood.

 

Buddhahood=Getting the Tao=Enlightenment

[tulku]

From Wikipedia as extracted from the Suttas:

 

"....and practised under two hermit teachers. After mastering the teachings of Alara Kalama (Skr. Ārāḍa Kālāma), he was asked by Kalama to succeed him. However, Gautama felt unsatisfied by the practise, and moved on to become a student of Udaka Ramaputta (Skr. Udraka Rāmaputra). With him he achieved high levels of meditative consciousness, and was again asked to succeed his teacher. But, once more, he was not satisfied, and again moved on."

 

People have a tendency to think that the Buddha was Guruless, but he certainly wasn't, he just transcended his very high up Guru's. This happens, he inquired deeper and didn't let the bliss of samadhi impede his process of progress. Also, after liberation, in various Mahayana texts, he said that he had attained his state before birth and manifested the conditions in this realm to go through what he did in order to have the right conditions for teaching what he needed to through his body. He had already attained the highest level Bhumi or accumulation in the Bodhisattva path before taking his birth here as a Wheel Turning Buddha and was practicing in Tushita Heaven. Here's a reference... Tushita Heaven in the scriptures.

 

Like I've said, the truth is in the details.

 

EDIT: He realized that the high level Samadhis/Jhanas only lead to one or other of the long lived god realms and after he attained Buddhahood, he went back to try to teach his two great Hindu teachers, but he found that they had already died.

 

As great as Buddha was, I like to point out the fact that Buddha didn't actually achieve jalus in his lifetime. He grew old and died. But many other lamas who were born after the Buddha did achieve Jalus. One of them went by the name Padmasambhava.

 

For the taoists in here who doubt me when I say that Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism practitioners have achieved far more than Taoist adepts, please do click on the following pictures and examine carefully these lamas and nuns who have achieved partial Jalus.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://konga.myweb.hinet.net/images/tutor1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/bbmm680920/article%3Fmid%3D146&usg=__rMS7kk0G_xjxpT0RSh1Zl4lgs1g=&h=1222&w=796&sz=369&hl=en&start=2&zoom=1&tbnid=Lfc-6XLEo_nDIM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=98&ei=mY_wTevNHIy-sAPA5P2pDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E9%2587%2591%25E5%2588%259A%25E4%25B8%258D%25E5%259D%258F%25E8%25BA%25AB%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1291%26bih%3D560%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://slz.goodweb.cn/imgs/ganzhu.jpg&imgrefurl=http://slz.goodweb.cn/sheli_5.asp&usg=__MHooXcO6jltUfUnTUvwgcxiTJiQ=&h=454&w=327&sz=42&hl=en&start=17&zoom=1&tbnid=IIjfQyMjgY1cZM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=92&ei=mY_wTevNHIy-sAPA5P2pDg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E9%2587%2591%25E5%2588%259A%25E4%25B8%258D%25E5%259D%258F%25E8%25BA%25AB%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1291%26bih%3D560%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

 

Lamas who have achieved full jalus. Observe the remants of their hair on the altar after they have completed the jalus process.

 

http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/nine_sky99/article?mid=1210&prev=1211&next=1209

 

The proof is in the pudding. I have yet to see any school of Taoism accomplish such remarkable feats repeatedly.

Edited June 9, 2011 by tulku

[C T]

 

The proof is in the pudding. I have yet to see any school of Taoism accomplish such remarkable feats repeatedly.

Have you considered that maybe the really accomplished Taoist adepts are not overly concerned about displaying remarkable feats? If i were you, i would not dismiss the possibilities.

 

Anyway, one should not be too absorbed by dazzling displays of realizations. Its more practical to maintain Right View and adopt a humble position. Then View can descend from above, and conduct can ascend from below, and the two can meet at Union Junction and manifest some Blissful absorption eh?

 

 

 

(btw, the pics you posted - those two corpses garbed in holy robes? It does not indicate Jalus, not even partial. Jalus are of two types - one is with remainder, and the other is without. With remainder means the adept chooses to leave behind an organ (say for example, the brain) which then turns into an ivory-like relic after they disappear. This relic is meant to aid the establishment of Dharma in various beneficial ways. Without remainder means the whole being turns into light, leaving only hair and nails behind.

 

Full-bodied remains could indicate that these adepts have reached an immensely deep level of shamatha and got stuck as they passed away, that's why their bodies would not decompose. Many such corpses can be found in Thailand and within the Golden Triangle. I have seen a few too.

 

According to the Tibetan masters, these bodies are in a state of 'frozen emptiness', just like meditation gods stuck at the highest levels of samsara called the Summit of Existence.

 

Its an impressive attainment, but unfortunately, they are not liberated. There are practices which accomplished masters can perform to un-freeze these bodies, liberate their subtlest remains of consciousness, and allow the body to disintegrate after, although the correct means is usually to cremate the body immediately after the phowa is completed. )

Edited June 9, 2011 by CowTao

[tulku]

Have you considered that maybe the really accomplished Taoist adepts are not overly concerned about displaying remarkable feats? If i were you, i would not dismiss the possibilities.

 

Anyway, one should not be too absorbed by dazzling displays of realizations. Its more practical to maintain Right View and adopt a humble position. Then View can descend from above, and conduct can ascend from below, and the two can meet at Union Junction and manifest some Blissful absorption eh?

 

 

 

(btw, the pics you posted - those two corpses garbed in holy robes? It does not indicate Jalus, not even partial. Jalus are of two types - one is with remainder, and the other is without. With remainder means the adept chooses to leave behind an organ (say for example, the brain) which then turns into an ivory-like relic after they disappear. This relic is meant to aid the establishment of Dharma in various beneficial ways. Without remainder means the whole being turns into light, leaving only hair and nails behind.

 

Full-bodied remains could indicate that these adepts have reached an immensely deep level of shamatha and got stuck as they passed away, that's why their bodies would not decompose. Many such corpses can be found in Thailand and within the Golden Triangle. I have seen a few too.

 

According to the Tibetan masters, these bodies are in a state of 'frozen emptiness', just like meditation gods stuck at the highest levels of samsara called the Summit of Existence.

 

Its an impressive attainment, but unfortunately, they are not liberated. There are practices which accomplished masters can perform to un-freeze these bodies, liberate their subtlest remains of consciousness, and allow the body to disintegrate after, although the correct means is usually to cremate the body immediately after the phowa is completed. )

 

I must be wrong about them achieving partial jalus. Those two lamas did achieve jalus with remainder because their bodies turn gold after their deaths. The Taoist adepts are not concerned with displaying their abilities but they might as well be non-existent to the general public.

 

Until I see evidence that that are Taoist adepts who have achieved the same degree of spiritual achievement as the Vajrayana Buddhists, I wouldn't hesitate to say that Taoism is a lesser vehicle compared to Vajrayana Buddhism. Of course, I could be proven wrong in the future. As I said before, if Mantak Chia and his students turn into light one day, it will show me that Taoism is a system which does work but until that day, I will always maintain that Taoism is a lesser vehicle compared to Tibtean Buddhism.

Edited June 9, 2011 by tulku

[Vajrahridaya]

As great as Buddha was, I like to point out the fact that Buddha didn't actually achieve jalus in his lifetime. He grew old and died. But many other lamas who were born after the Buddha did achieve Jalus. One of them went by the name Padmasambhava.

 

Wheel turning Buddhas such as Shakyamuni never attain Jalus, as they have too many disciples who break precepts, or samayas which goes with the nature of having so many disciples. Their body karmas are too intimately tied with each disciple. Also, I think the fact that the Buddha left his body as relics was a better choice in his particular case considering his general importance being a Samyakasambuddha. No other Buddha from him to now is a Samyakasambuddha. This is a very important difference.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

This is the problem with the chinese, not only chinese in china but chinese elsewhere in the world as well. They hide the most important spiritual teachings so well that these teachings might as well be non-existent to the general public. Look at John Chang and Mo Pai. He is a great example of how selfish most chinese people are. The Chinese reserve the secret teachings for their own families and inner circle of friends and relatives so if you aren't lucky enough to reincarnate into such an inner circle, tough luck!

 

 

I had heard of Wang Liping 17 years ago and read his biography. Anyway, if a being is selfish like what you say above, they haven't even realized Mahayana view yet.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Or, might your truth be in the details you choose to believe? However you come to this realization.

 

Well yea, all truth is relative.

[Mandrake]

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Well come on - where are the complete, unobscured, and free explanations of thödgal and tregchod?

 

Mandrake

Heart Drops of Dharmakaya written by... Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen

 

Ok, not free... but...

Edited June 9, 2011 by Vajrahridaya