Opening the Kundalini: How?

[Vajrahridaya]

Would just like to say, FWIW I don't get my info about the Vatican 's library, or the history of the Catholic church from TV or movies or fiction books. I get ( got) it from history books. And history classes at a university.

 

 

:-)

 

I really feel its very important to know our (vast human) history, which is much deeper than even the publicly available historical records.

For example, the water erosion seen on Sphynx in Egypt, which is impossible according to the accepted timelines.

 

We have been here probably much longer than we think, IMO. And I agree with Vaj, they want to hide the truth ( in general about history ) to control.

 

N~

 

As in maybe we've gone through this cycle before and had this level of technology before... maybe??

 

In the Buddhist tradition, it's talked about that there were previous Wheel turning Buddhas, within thousands and thousands of years ago pryer to the Shakyamuni Buddha who we all know of. The Bon tradition say's the same thing. So maybe pre-"historic" beings were not all that ignorant, and maybe there were places like Atlantis, etc. Maybe there were flying vehicles with weapons as are said in ancient Hindu texts?

[Vajrahridaya]

My other point is that maps, mandalas and world views (e.g. shamanic) are good and valid ... but formulaic methods don't and can't work. For instance some Buddhists schools will tell you that if you sit in this posture and chant this mantra 100,000 times etc you will automatically become enlightened (or at least gain some level of liberation). This in my view is pure b/s.

 

But, you've never tried it, so your opinion is under informed. I've tried it, but not the extent prescribed, sadly, yet it did work to the extent I under did it too. I got a heck of a lot more enlightened by following such structured prescriptions. You have no idea (or maybe you do...) what it takes to do such a thing and what one works through internally as one try's to maintain focus with a healthy level of pre-contemplation and knowledge of where I'm going by reading "structured" texts that unpack the praxis of enlightened Buddhas into healthy conceptual formations.

 

Codes for life can be helpful of course. You don't walk down the high street naked (well you might Vaj I'm not sure ) you wear clothes which make you accepted and acceptable to people ... this is in my view the status of right living and so on ... its a good code for life which keeps you sufficiently balanced that you can get on with practice without a lot of hoohaa going on in your life ... same with gathering merit which gives you a chance of what Gampopa calls 'leisure and endowment' ... so that you can practice in peace.

 

Yes, of course, but you've also read teachings by the "Crazy Wisdom Siddhas", right? Sure there is that, but that structure of course is a bondage too and Buddhism has made space for that, lots of space. I've experienced that level of no fear to walk around completely naked and do anything, as an expression of love to shock people out of their comfortable, subconscious malaise. I've done some things as my body echoed from the state of spontaneous presence... sure.

 

EDIT: Sadly I'm still egotistical enough to mention it though...

Edited June 8, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[C T]

Instead, some people allowed my overbearing warrior manner to push their male authority issue buttons..

 

What a statement!

 

So anyone who opposes your 'warrior' views is basically having male authority issues? And buttons too? BS

[Vajrahridaya]

i never said that he ADVOCATES a structureless path. i didn't even imply that. he's a Tibetan lama, so duh. what i'm saying is that he gets that the state or condition (whatever you want to call it) of enlightenment does not belong to buddhism or any established tradition, and therefore doesn't exclude the other, lesser understood,

indigenous or ecstatic way

s. what i'm saying is nothing more than the obvious.

 

some flowers study methods on how to bloom, but that doesn't make them the gatekeepers of the sun.

 

Vajrayana and Dzogchen for instance use the ecstasy to push forward, not as excuse for a permanent identity. But the bliss is used to deepen the inner effect of the method prescribed for a particular result, such as Jalus.

 

Vajrayana/Dzogchen yogis are still, to this day attaining Jalus, or Rainbow body, where they leave nothing or leave nails and hair only.

 

If Bushmen, or Peruvians, or, American Shamans are doing this, they aren't leaving a teaching which leads others to this in a very clear and straightforward manor, which means maybe their intention for this level of attainment is not nearly as grounded in Mahayana view? Who knows... maybe it is, and they are doing it from a reason unbeknownst me. Because, even Bon Shamans are leaving teachings that lead to this realization, and I have a book called, Heart Drops of Dharmakaya written by Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen who himself attained the Rainbow Body, so yes, of course I'm not dismissing Shamans, but he did leave behind a teaching that leads to this realization, and I have that book on my shelf at home.

 

I read, I don't remember the source, but I did read that there was a tradition in the "North" from where the Buddha was born that was remnants of left over teachings from a previous Buddha, and that the Buddha did mention this, though I don't remember where I read this, it's in my memory, but it lacks details. I can't recall if this is in reference to Bon Shamanism... but I think I remember that it is. As both Vajrayana and Bon have Dzogchen teachings, and I read a Dzogchen master saying that Taoism does as well.

 

I've said this before on this site. No one wants to remember that though, they want to remember that which makes them angry and justifies their feeling to wish to hang me at the gallows.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Apech]

Is that what they told you when you were practicing Vajrayana, Apech? I will find it odd if they did.

 

Well, yes in a way they did and if you read Vaj above somewhere he seems to affirm that some practices are taught in this way.

[Apech]

But, you've never tried it, so your opinion is under informed. I've tried it, but not the extent prescribed, sadly, yet it did work to the extent I under did it too. I got a heck of a lot more enlightened by following such structured prescriptions. You have no idea (or maybe you do...) what it takes to do such a thing and what one works through internally as one try's to maintain focus with a healthy level of pre-contemplation and knowledge of where I'm going by reading "structured" texts that unpack the praxis of enlightened Buddhas into healthy conceptual formations.

 

I have tried it. Maybe not well enough ???? but I have.

 

 

Yes, of course, but you've also read teachings by the "Crazy Wisdom Siddhas", right? Sure there is that, but that structure of course is a bondage too and Buddhism has made space for that, lots of space. I've experienced that level of no fear to walk around completely naked and do anything, as an expression of love to shock people out of their comfortable, subconscious malaise. I've done some things as my body echoed from the state of spontaneous presence... sure.

 

EDIT: Sadly I'm still egotistical enough to mention it though...

 

When you walked around naked did they see the point? Were you making a big point or a small one ?(ha ha).

 

Yes, crazy wisdom ok ... but that's more to do with what I'm saying ... there is no formula for that I think ....

[Vajrahridaya]

I have tried it. Maybe not well enough ???? but I have.

 

 

 

 

When you walked around naked did they see the point? Were you making a big point or a small one ?(ha ha).

 

Yes, crazy wisdom ok ... but that's more to do with what I'm saying ... there is no formula for that I think ....

 

Ok, well... they (females) say it's huge! Could be lying...

 

No, there is no linear formula for actually grokking liberation, but it's a huge, huge help.

 

So... wait a second, you actually sat there and did 100,000 mantras at one time without moving? Or you did it over the period of 2 years? That makes a huge difference, how much you do in a single sitting is the bread and butter of deeper realization.

[C T]

Well, yes in a way they did and if you read Vaj above somewhere he seems to affirm that some practices are taught in this way.

Ahh... okay. Its just that i have never come across any Tibetan teacher that said something along this vein. What i have been told is that all Vajrayana practices undertaken helps to remove obscurations, and that in fact, there is nothing to attain. Some of these teachers would go as far as to tell their wide-eyed admirers that they are wasting their time and money if they think they can be led to enlightenment, but i digress... lest i be told i am advocating and preaching Buddhist superiority.

 

Moreover, this is way off topic. I am no Kundalini warrior, so not much to contribute i'm afraid.

 

Apologies.

[fiveelementtao]

What a statement!

 

So anyone who opposes your 'warrior' views is basically having male authority issues? And buttons too? BS

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Out of all my entire posts on this thread you find it necessary to isolate ONE line (that was not directed at you) where I was being self-deprecative in order to get us back on a constructive discussion and yet you take personal offense and instead decide to attack me personally and call me B.S.

 

I give up... I'm out...

 

(Why do I even waste my time here at all?)

[Vajrahridaya]

Well, yes in a way they did and if you read Vaj above somewhere he seems to affirm that some practices are taught in this way.

 

Yes, some do teach in this way, both in the Hindu and the Buddhist tradition. Like in the Hindu tradition, they say if you sit for 9 hours straight in Padmasana (lotus posture) all your nadis (energy channels) will be totally purified.

 

I think it depends on whether you have transmission or not, because following this advice from a book... is absolutely not the same. You'll have to get mind pointing instructions and an actual recommendation from a highly realized Master in order for these Tantric prescriptions to actually take power. Even mantra repition requires the blessing of a lineage Guru. I can hear goldisheavy stomping his dogma hating feat already!

 

EDIT: Not only does the lineage master say it, but you have to "grok" it!

 

... in order for it to be a rocket... sorry bad very late joke... oh well.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Sahaj Nath]

I said except for exceptional individuals... go back and re-read what I read. I'm saying if the exceptional individuals don't leave behind a codified structure of material, nothing gets passed on.

 

and what i'm saying is that the oral traditions and ecstatic tradition disprove your point because rather than handing down maps, they transmitted their direct access to the territories.

 

i think i got your meaning fine. maybe i just didn't flesh out my own enough.

 

All this that you have said is a reaction based upon taking certain sentences of mine out of context. I'm not dismissing these Shamans as having nothing good to teach, I'm just saying if they are genuinely "Buddhas", then they would have an explanation. As well, language isn't White Man's invention. Wow.

 

i don't know. maybe you're talking about Buddhas with a big B, and i'm talking about buddhas with a small b. so if your contention is also that only those who have an explanation have a right to the title, i neither dispute nor care about that. but i'm arguing that buddhas, as in "awakened ones," passed transmissions of wisdom (consciousness, energy) long before transmitting specific lineages of practice became the thing.

 

and NO, i'm not calling LANGUAGE white man's invention. i'm calling out elitism of white intellectual inquiry. for instance, calling tribal stories and beliefs SUPERSTITIONS. it's a loaded, belittling term that veritably calls them inferior or "savages" without having to say it. HALLUCINATIONS was another such term that for years kept us in the dark about that nature of certain practices. ecstatic movement was labeled seizures. was that your intention? of course not. but i do think it's a flaw of the intellectual/academic framework. and i'm certainly not alone in terms of historical and anthropological critique.

 

 

 

Please read everything I write from a holistic standpoint and not react off sentences pulled out of context, within your own mind.

 

well, to be fair, you write an awful lot, and attempting to hold everything in consideration for a complete and thorough response is just not something i want to do when it comes to your arguments. most of the time i just remain silent because it would take FOREVER to address all of your stuff. just not gonna happen. *shrugs*

 

 

You pull Sogyal Rinpoches teaching out of context as well. Of course realization transcends religion, but it is expressed a certain way, and that way is the Mahayana view that encompasses so much. The Buddha explained all this, he is definitely the Muni of this Kali Yuga. He was very clear, leaving no room for emotional assumptions.

 

really? out of context? http://www.rigpa.org/en/about-rigpa.html

 

he was explaining the meaning of rigpa. that was the context. your "of course" comment means it's not out of context at all. what you added was NOT part of the context, however.

 

anyway, i've said my peace. this has taken way too long. i probably should have just remained silent like i tend to do mostly these days. my time might have been better spent sleeping.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

see? now this post is basically mute because you wrote another, LONGER post, that this one doesn't address.

 

i'm just not gonna bother trying to keep up with you. so i'll just let it go. you win.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Hundun

[C T]

DP

Edited June 8, 2011 by CowTao

[C T]

 

 

When you walked around naked did they see the point? Were you making a big point or a small one ?(ha ha).

 

:lol:

 

thanks... my day is made!!

[宁]

(Why do I even waste my time here at all?)

 

CLUE: Check out the links in your signature selling *in one long breath*:

Spiritual Healing Teutonic Taoist Wizzard Shamanist Chi Kung

 

Can't help myself being a "Little" mean (1) from time to time

Totally unenlightened from my part, i know...

 

edit: i forgot to add 'spiritual' and 'healing' to the label

Edited June 8, 2011 by Little1

[Vajrahridaya]

and what i'm saying is that the oral traditions and ecstatic tradition disprove your point because rather than handing down maps, they transmitted their direct access to the territories.

 

i think i got your meaning fine. maybe i just didn't flesh out my own enough.

 

Sure, to qualified disciples. Hopefully one day the entire human species will be a mass of qualified disciples!

 

 

i don't know. maybe you're talking about Buddhas with a big B, and i'm talking about buddhas with a small b. so if your contention is also that only those who have an explanation have a right to the title, i neither dispute nor care about that. but i'm arguing that buddhas, as in "awakened ones," passed transmissions of wisdom (consciousness, energy) long before transmitting specific lineages of practice became the thing.

 

Sure, the Buddha is pre-written, but he prescribed a formula that was easily repeatable, using numbers and he had his monks chant this and pass down the chants until it was written down as the Suttas a couple hundred years later.

 

and NO, i'm not calling LANGUAGE white man's invention. i'm calling out elitism of white intellectual inquiry. for instance, calling tribal stories and beliefs SUPERSTITIONS. it's a loaded, belittling term that veritably calls them inferior or "savages" without having to say it. HALLUCINATIONS was another such term that for years kept us in the dark about that nature of certain practices. ecstatic movement was labeled seizures. was that your intention? of course not. but i do think it's a flaw of the intellectual/academic framework. and i'm certainly not alone in terms of historical and anthropological critique.

 

I can dig it. But... like I said, the 31 planes of existence reveal how deep conditioning goes, and how I interpret supersitions is not the same as 5 sense dense idiotic version of white man does. Man... I can read a thug comin' at me wrong from a block away from behind a wall... I don't need words for that. But, there is a structure, a connection that has to do with inter-dependence/emptiness which makes this reading possible, though it's a regular thug thing to read this... the Buddha laid out a conceptual structure explaining this, grounding this, because he had clarity and understood the why's and the how's and did not just say... "uh, it's just what it is dauud."

 

 

 

 

 

well, to be fair, you write an awful lot, and attempting to hold everything in consideration for a complete and thorough response is just not something i want to do when it comes to your arguments. most of the time i just remain silent because it would take FOREVER to address all of your stuff. just not gonna happen. *shrugs*

 

LOL! Fair enough, but then don't consider your view and response to my writing holistic and without flaw.

really? out of context? http://www.rigpa.org/en/about-rigpa.html

 

Yes, but reading about Rigpa and experiencing it are two different things. There are effects to it's experience which arise instantaniously, including a vision of the 31 planes and 6 realms, the inner meaning and effects of the 8 jhanas/samadhis, in whatever language as we're not speaking language here, but instant intuition which can grok more information per spherical nano-second than what is in endless books. But, without the book, one might not be aware of this... ever. Sogyal Rinpoche said, omniscience, which doesn't mean knowing every little thing ever, but understanding the nature of every little thing ever on a deeply multi-dimensional level.

 

my time might have been better spent sleeping.

 

It's all good (samantabhadra = literally meaning 'the all good') [not an excuse for mass murder]... it gave me a chance to explain more... hey, why not?

Edited June 8, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

EDIT:

 

see? now this post is basically mute because you wrote another, LONGER post, that this one doesn't address.

 

i'm just not gonna bother trying to keep up with you. so i'll just let it go. you win.

 

Sorry... I often edit my posts... Sleep well bro... awake deep!

[C T]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Out of all my entire posts on this thread you find it necessary to isolate ONE line (that was not directed at you) where I was being self-deprecative in order to get us back on a constructive discussion and yet you take personal offense and instead decide to attack me personally and call me B.S.

 

I give up... I'm out...

 

(Why do I even waste my time here at all?)

What exactly are you talking about? That you want adulations for your posts?

 

Just because praises were not directed your way does not mean your insights are not appreciated. I often take what you share to heart, and in turn pass them on to friends who have similar passions with you, and they really like what they read. And the advice you give to others here are very sound, and it'd be their loss if they do not take them to heart. But you were not being honest when you said you were being self-deprecative by including that subtle insinuation into that post. Well, it was not actually that subtle anyway.

 

I did not take offense, but found it, how would you say, rather dismissive and out of character. Dont worry - its not you, just dealing with my own projectiles (read 'demons'). And... i did not call you BS - it was that insinuative tone that i found uncharacteristically non-5ET in nature, thats all. I could not gel the two... a momentary lapse more than likely.

Edited June 8, 2011 by CowTao

[ShaktiMama]

yes, it is. especially from a shaktipat guru. I can't recommend anything. I think it's more relevant to know why first. Why you want to does have a direct correlation to how it unfolds for you. The most efficient is for the patient. Three years with either yoga or qigong practice. That way the practice clears the "pipes" or energy channels so the opening is smooth.

 

It is a life time committment so choose wisely.

 

Fast awakening can be done. It was used in ancient times to awaken the energy up to the 1st and 2nd dantien in the military. If your enemy is coming across the country to invade your country one only has a certain period of time to develop almost a supernatural strength and skill for an advantage. Cultivate the first dantien for the cannon fodder, er I mean foot soldiers. 2nd dantien was for officers and third dantien was for the military and religious elite. Also royalty.

 

Or at least Dr. Glenn Morris used to teach that.

 

So I repeat myself so that we know early on that I said the most efficient wasy of opening kundalini is in the first paragraph just in case anyone missed it. I have been told this by yoga and chi kung masters over the years a few times. If you want it fast and safe take KAP.(obligatory disclaimer, I am a KAP instructor). I would hazard saying it is efficient but then I am going to run for cover.

 

To elaborate one Hsing-yi master told me that if I had been his student and my k awoke like it did for me under his tutelage he would have lost face because it was so uncontrolled and wild. Bad form and bad instruction. But he certainly loved to get Shaktipat from me.

 

Hundun: how was your time with Sifu Jenny? I am sorry I missed you. Mom was in town and mothers get priority.

[Apech]

Ahh... okay. Its just that i have never come across any Tibetan teacher that said something along this vein. What i have been told is that all Vajrayana practices undertaken helps to remove obscurations, and that in fact, there is nothing to attain. Some of these teachers would go as far as to tell their wide-eyed admirers that they are wasting their time and money if they think they can be led to enlightenment, but i digress... lest i be told i am advocating and preaching Buddhist superiority.

 

Moreover, this is way off topic. I am no Kundalini warrior, so not much to contribute i'm afraid.

 

Apologies.

 

I believe the sadhanas say this ... if you do this then you will achieve this. OK I think its a mixture mostly in that Lamas do not stress this kind of thing.

 

Just to be clear I respect Buddhism greatly ... I was just pointing out what I perceive as a weakness which is tendency to think in this way ... I wasn't repudiating the power of dharma or vajrayana in saying this.

[Apech]

Ok, well... they (females) say it's huge! Could be lying...

 

No, there is no linear formula for actually grokking liberation, but it's a huge, huge help.

 

So... wait a second, you actually sat there and did 100,000 mantras at one time without moving? Or you did it over the period of 2 years? That makes a huge difference, how much you do in a single sitting is the bread and butter of deeper realization.

 

No I did it over a period of time not in one sitting. I am a weak poor fool and also I don't walk around naked ... well only in my bathroom ... obviously I wish to discourage jealousy in others ... or something ....

[markern]

Who is saying that?

 

Vajrahridaya. For six pages now.

[Vajrahridaya]

Pray tell, from whom did the Buddha receive transmission?

 

From Wikipedia as extracted from the Suttas:

 

"....and practised under two hermit teachers. After mastering the teachings of Alara Kalama (Skr. Ārāḍa Kālāma), he was asked by Kalama to succeed him. However, Gautama felt unsatisfied by the practise, and moved on to become a student of Udaka Ramaputta (Skr. Udraka Rāmaputra). With him he achieved high levels of meditative consciousness, and was again asked to succeed his teacher. But, once more, he was not satisfied, and again moved on."

 

People have a tendency to think that the Buddha was Guruless, but he certainly wasn't, he just transcended his very high up Guru's. This happens, he inquired deeper and didn't let the bliss of samadhi impede his process of progress. Also, after liberation, in various Mahayana texts, he said that he had attained his state before birth and manifested the conditions in this realm to go through what he did in order to have the right conditions for teaching what he needed to through his body. He had already attained the highest level Bhumi or accumulation in the Bodhisattva path before taking his birth here as a Wheel Turning Buddha and was practicing in Tushita Heaven. Here's a reference... Tushita Heaven in the scriptures.

 

Like I've said, the truth is in the details.

 

EDIT: He realized that the high level Samadhis/Jhanas only lead to one or other of the long lived god realms and after he attained Buddhahood, he went back to try to teach his two great Hindu teachers, but he found that they had already died.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

No I did it over a period of time not in one sitting. I am a weak poor fool and also I don't walk around naked ... well only in my bathroom ... obviously I wish to discourage jealousy in others ... or something ....

 

LOL!! Oh yea big man!

[Vajrahridaya]

Normally we are told you can`t really get anywhere without live instruction, without person to person interaction and the communication that is without words. Now we are told we can`t get anywhere without the written word?

 

I personally feel we need both, it is better to have both. If you are to choose one, I'd choose live instruction over words in a book, just as the Buddha taught before anything was written down, it was all oral.

 

But, now that we have both, it's really highly beneficial and compassionate to do both, thus great masters write great teachings into great books! As well as teach in a person to person manor.

[fiveelementtao]

What exactly are you talking about? That you want adulations for your posts?

 

Just because praises were not directed your way does not mean your insights are not appreciated. I often take what you share to heart, and in turn pass them on to friends who have similar passions with you, and they really like what they read. And the advice you give to others here are very sound, and it'd be their loss if they do not take them to heart. But you were not being honest when you said you were being self-deprecative by including that subtle insinuation into that post. Well, it was not actually that subtle anyway.

 

I did not take offense, but found it, how would you say, rather dismissive and out of character. Dont worry - its not you, just dealing with my own projectiles (read 'demons'). And... i did not call you BS - it was that insinuative tone that i found uncharacteristically non-5ET in nature, thats all. I could not gel the two... a momentary lapse more than likely.

 

You are absolutely right Cowtao. I am having alot of feelings about this subject that I am not completely conscious of yet. I need to do some soul searching as to why...

 

Little1, I'm giving you a big hug. I love ya and only have good thoughts for you buddy. I believe in you.. go get 'em tiger!