Finding a Guru

[awake]

I am at a point I feel that I have to find a Guru..

 

I am utterly perceiving this situation through my unuseful social conditioning, of which my entire life has been filled with avoidance of people and intimidation in their presence..

 

To mind-dump-it:

 

I can't think intelligently and hardly coherently when I am around people, and I definitely act as such.

 

I avoid being direct with people, so even if it were to come out "I want to follow you" or something of the sort, it would be like shaking up a bottle of Pop before poking a small hole into the top of it, in other words, it would not come out very well.

 

This is due to the fact I believe people won't like me, I believe it vehemently, I have almost all of my life that I have memory for, and this presents a few problems: the guru wouldn't take me intrinsically, he wouldn't like me, furthermore, this being such a large block in my consciousness, he would turn me down because I am not ready, since I have this block.

 

As I look to the development of my perception, I see that there is an emerging side that sees this inane stupid childish rambling as those things, and then the side that those things are the identity of..

 

I don't have much in terms of assets, and so I believe it would be difficult to go travelling to find a Guru.

 

However, I believe I have already met two, one of which has asked me if I would like to do what he does, but due to my social beligerence, I left misrepresenting myself, though he did tell me "we will meet again", and I know where I can find him (albeit that plane tickets cost a lot to me), though he did hint to me that I need to be without expectation, which, I sort of have going there, which is another reason I think he wouldn't take me - I expect it.

 

I am finding more and more dissatisfaction with the type of work I do (website consulting, mostly for communities[forums]), even though I am skilled at it.. I feel it is nearing time for me to take a different path in life, yet I am lost and don't know where to go or what to do.. There are so many conflicting aspects in my mind, as I mentioned, it is like two sides opposing one another, often leaving me overwhelmed in a state of stupor.

 

This introductory post on the issue has not done very much to clear up even my thoughts on the issue, so if that is required, for those of you who can help, please help me do so, I am interested in having a dialogue so I can be clear on what I want, and clear up any delusions I have about this whole endeavour.

 

Thank you

[Edward M]

Awake,

 

I hear where you are coming from..i have been the same myself for as long as i can remember. The only thing i can really say is if someone is really a "Guru" or highly accomplished spiritually then they will see through what you have been describing into the core of your being, so i don't think you should worry about it.

 

When this guy said you will meet again and to be without expectation, i take that to mean don't expect to have to find a way to meet him. If he is right and you have some karmic link, then karma will do the work...you just have to have faith let opportunities fall into place and grasp them when they arise.

 

As far as being confused within yourself, have you tried mind-mapping your thoughts situation? Tony Buzzan has a great method for doing it..it uses your whole brain.

http://www.michaelonmindmapping.com/blog/mind-maps/the-mind-map-book-by-tony-buzan/

 

All the best

 

Ed

Edited June 3, 2011 by Edward M

[RiverSnake]

Awake i see that you have been a member since 2009, do you have any regular practices(Chi-Gung, Meditation etc...)?

Edited June 3, 2011 by OldGreen

[awake]

When this guy said you will meet again and to be without expectation, i take that to mean don't expect to have to find a way to meet him. If he is right and you have some karmic link, then karma will do the work...you just have to have faith let opportunities fall into place and grasp them when they arise.

 

As far as being confused within yourself, have you tried mind-mapping your thoughts situation? Tony Buzzan has a great method for doing it..it uses your whole brain.

http://www.michaelonmindmapping.com/blog/mind-maps/the-mind-map-book-by-tony-buzan/

 

I believe I had one of such opportunities shortly after coming back from meeting him the first time.. However due to my social anxiety I did not take it, and have immense regret..

 

I will look into that book at some point. I spent the last two months and a half really tormenting myself to the point I became stupified, like my mind gave up thinking, it still does it occasionally...

 

 

Awake i see that you have been a member since 2009, do you have any regular practices(Chi-Gung, Meditation etc...)?

 

The only thing I would say I do with any consistency is consume material on the subject.. I've recently found Alan Watts, who is really opening my mind to new perception.. I find myself willing to "just try" becoming consumed by the ideas he's putting forth, and he's actually one of, if not, the first teacher (albeit dead now, he has audios available), I felt comfortable with assuming they're right ad trying to find how their point of view is true in my reality, rather than simply listening..

 

The peculiar thing about this is that since I have been meeting Gurus (two so far), I have had higher highs, and much more frequent, lower lows..

 

I can perceive, I say not to an extreme degree, though definitely perceptable, that everything is alive, and that everything is "ing-ing", that is, an apple is appleing, they are verbs, not nouns.. Sometimes I feel really peaceful and loving or either or really good in other ways (for no apparent reason) and other times I'm spiralling down a whirlpool of dismay that I don't have a future or direction.. I think this is what I want a Guru for (partially).. That is: I do want to escape the world I currently live in, I don't like it, I would much rather be living a life I want, and I have the capacity to get myself there, but: 1) part of what I have been tormenting myself with the last two and a half months was my inability to get results in the area of: 2) my social problems as aforementioned are a major block in my life.. My ideal profession, though I haven't narrowed it down yet, has something either to do with energy, or teaching (not in the current K-12-U system), or both.. This is part of what I am not sure of what to do, and because I am unclear, is another reason I think any Gurus will reject me, but I just don't know how to become clear, though these are the fields I enjoy (learning about, and talking/doing about come naturally thereafter)

 

Now, you see, either of these would have to do with people, of whom I am essentially terrified of. I've scraped by on the internet until now because it's a less intense thing (and when I still think that somebody is actually going to read my post I freeze up) - suffice to say even through this disassociated form of communication, I am still writing in an intimidated way.

 

I've watched vices come and go, from order of aquisition:

 

Social Phobia/Overeating (both of these occurred at some point before I have memory, I don't quite know which came first)

Television

Online Games

Marijuana

And then in order of disappearance:

Online Games

Television

Overeating

Marijuana

 

I see a clear pattern, their disappearance coincides with my interest in spirituality and self education, what remains is my social phobia.. The irony is I've realized to a degree that I've been trying for about 7 years to fix it, and my efforts have all been futile.. It seems to be a waste to do anything more to fix it, and my efforts seem to be dwindling there, yet I still believe because of it I would be in detriment when finding a Guru..

 

The other part of why I want one is that I believe I need some order, some structure. Like school, or a job, but I am not interested in progressing in those areas (school is not education for me, it is memorization, and when I am outside their confines I learn a lot better, faster, and from more than just their "chosen" books on a subject), and I hate working for bosses, I hate being told what to do for a cause I don't care, and I suspect that I will quickly become intolerant of the structure there after progressing and create my own, nonetheless I do feel that it is needed for a cause I believe in for now.. See, despite this social stupidity (I've called it many things, I suppose it's all of them, I've tried to figure out "what" it is for so long, it's sort of spiritual in the way I can't really describe it accurately), in the few rare situations where, through no conscious effort of my own, I was not this way, I became the leader of the interaction, not in a controlling or asshole sense, but it sort of flowed by my intention, which wasn't egotistical at all, and it was a wonderful time, everyone was laughing, having fun, everything (if not, almost) I said made them laugh.. And I know the difference between laughing at and laughing with, my childhood was filled with "laughing at".

 

I don't know where that brings us, I'm coming up with all relevant information I can as it comes to me..

[RiverSnake]

So based on your post you have absolutely no practices. You read books, you are obviously a very intellectual person (much like me). However, i can say from personal experience that being an armchair practitioner will never-ever-ever-ever help you!!

 

-You cannot think your way out of an emotional rut, fear is irrational, it will dance circles around the rational mind and create seemingly rational reasons for caving into your fears. Thinking is useless! Thoughts are often tools of the ego.

 

-If you ever want to make any progress with yourself you must take action and do so on a consistent basis. In order for Alan Watts to understand Zen he had to first practice, intellectual understanding is superficial at best.

 

-Find a stable practice that you enjoy: Chi-Gung, Meditation, Yoga...etc Find something that resonates with you and then practice it!. There are plenty of teachers on this site.

 

-But i repeat you will never make any progress without taking action.

 

-Another thing, NEVER beat yourself over what happened in the past (this is a tool of the ego), fuck the past, the present is more important, its the present that matters. Its in the present that you can heal yourself and make the most difference.

 

-If you messed up in a situation acknowledge it and learn from your mistakes, but always LOVE YOURSELF UNCONDITIONALLY no matter what.

Edited June 3, 2011 by OldGreen

[The Way Is Virtue]

Hi Awake. Here are some thoughts, but I think there is no point typing in a reply if I am not up front and honest in regards to what I really think. We each ultimately have to make our own decisions, but something to consider is that before a person goes off seeking a guru or teacher and such, I think we have to first be in at least a somewhat fairly balanced place both mentally and emotionally. Otherwise we may just end up inadvertantly opening ourself to unscrupulous or deluded people who pass themselves off as gurus and masters of some sort or another and such, who either prey on vulnerable people for selfious or nefarious reasons or because they need others to help support their own delusions or false or egotistical thinking. Working on mental and emotional balance first to reach some sort of fairly balanced state would seem a good idea. This might include some forms of professional counselling or therapy if the issues are deep seated, or maybe something less formal if you can find something else helpful.

 

Regarding work. Not too many people terribly want to have to go to work everyday and do various things they might not particularly like too much, but we all need to be able to make a living to support ourselves. Having to work at a job day in and day out may not be the most fulfilling thing to do with our time, but having the steady income from employment allows us to have the means to do other things that we do find fulfilling. Some people have to really struggle jsut to get a really crappy job, so having any job that is half decent is not such a bad thing at all in context.

 

Best wishes to you...

[fiveelementtao]

Why do you need a "guru"? Why not just start with any teacher that knows more than you. start with any class of yoga, meditation, qigong etc... with other people that teaches something that you are curious about. Getting out and being with others in a group setting is a great way to work on your communication skills and work through your isolation issues...

 

Perhaps just seeking to be a more functional human is an option.

 

Setting your sights on a guru is a great way to give yourself more excuses to stay isolated. True gurus are hard to find and traveling costs money. So, therefore just stay home and read more books... Right? Wrong. I'm sure there are inexpensive classes in your city and affordable counseling in your city.

Start with that and the means and opportunities for greater things may manifest. And who knows? you may find that you don't need a guru or to travel after all. Maybe just someone with more experience than you is all you need right now Sometimes what we need is right under our nose. But, we have to start looking first...

 

IME, taking action is the best way to kick start the Universe into giving you what you really want. Taking any class with an imperfect human even if it is not the practice or teacher that you ultimately stick with is one way to show the Universe through your actions that you are serious about change. As others have stated, reading books by yourself sometimes only traps us in our intellect and makes our issues more entrenched... Getting out and meeting people while scary is a great way to strengthen the spirit to begin overcoming our own self imposed limitations.

Progress not perfection...

my .02

good luck in your search...

Mike

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I don't have a huge amount of new advice. What's been said is true, that you need to make sure you know who YOU are before going and following a guru. As I repeated in a different topic, if you don't have that frame of reference from which to accept or reject what you are taught then you are in danger of being hugely manipulated. Plus, you need this frame of reference to know that you have found the right guru, because once you do know unequivacally that this guru has infallible perception about you - you will have to follow what he tells you to do, and a lot of that will be very difficult and potentially useless if you have not fully resolved your skepticism in a balanced way beforehand.

 

The other thing I will put in is that he may have said "don't have any expectations" because he won't want someone coming up to him like "I came all the way over here to see you so now teach me, you owe me (I own you)!" Have some other reasons to go there so you're not too reliant on him making the trip for you, that is, if you know you want to learn what you know he has to teach you. And of course, don't assume you know what he will teach you. Paradoxical, yes, but you'll have to get used to that.

 

Best

[markern]

Your social problems can be overcome 100%. Here is my advice.

 

Look into cogntive behavioural therapy, atention and commitment therapy and mindfulness based cogntive therapy. They are all proven good therapies for dealing with anxieties and self esteem etc. The last two draw inspiration from meditation and the psychology of meditation.

 

Learn to meditate and do qigong. Any sort of meditation adn qigong will do but some are more targeted for working on this sort of stuff than others. Six healing sounds and inner smile are very god. Find the thread lessons of the lower chakras by Dmatawards on page two or three in this forum and read it. THere you will see how he very successfully has sorted out a ton of emotional problems with those two techniques. Do standing meditation in the wuji posture. It works on your system overal but especially works with the kidneys, spleen and root chakra which are all centers tied intimately with anxiety problems. THere are many other techniques that also work specifically with similar issues these are jsut some of the ones I am familiar with. Any additional qigong, yoga or other meditation will aslo help.

 

Increase your testosterone through lifting weights and doing martial arts. Both increase testosterone a lot and higher testosterone elads to more confidence, more assertiveness, more drive and less timidness. In addition you will look better and so get better reactions and martial arts builds confidence and reduces fear in many ways other than just increasing testosterone. You learn to have guts and face up to year fears and have authoriy etc.

 

Learn the social skills necessarry. go to charismaarts.com and buy the book. It will teach you how to be a great conversationalist. Learning what Juggler teaches gives you the ability swim socially with easy in and context. THey offer phone coaching and in person teaching. I would seriously consider paying fo rhtat if I struggled like you do. The calm and confidence that comes from that level of social mastery is huge. You can also take a look at this site: http://www.succeedsocially.com/

 

I am guessing women is a problem for you. The charismaarts stuff fixes that but another great resource for the same is 60yearschallenge. Especially his antimanifesto is awesome. A bit advanced though.

 

Learn to dance. Not only is dancing a great way to interact with peole but learning to mve freely and without constraints in the way you do when you learn to dance fairly well is excellent in helping you loose social inhibitions.

 

Go see a doctor of TCM. Some good herbs for aniety and lack of confidence should help.

 

Search for the haka on yutube and try doing it a few times. It is a super quick way to boost confidence, diminish fear and timidness and I am convinced also increase testosterone. It can be doen in a minute or two. Some videos just show people doing it while some are instructional and teach you how.

 

Try to reduce masturbation as much as you can. It is a frequent finding by many with anxiety problems that lots of masturbation actually increases their problems. You can read about it here: reuniting.info

 

Hypnosis might also be a good thing to try.

[markern]

http://www.bristollair.com/2008/outer-game/pua-skills/social-vibing/

 

THis article teaches you something very important about social skills. There are a bunch of other good articles at that site.

[3bob]

Get a cat or get a dog if you don't have a pet... for they teach us a lot just by them being their natural selves. ;-)

 

There are true gurus that can help in spiritual emergencies just as there are medical doctors that can help in medical emergencies, but don't expect to become a gurus close student right off the bat, just as you wouldn't expect to become a medical doctors close student right off the bat without putting in tons and years of prep work. If a spiritual or medical doctor did their job and helped you get past an emergency be thankful but then don't limp about, stand up on your own two feet which is the reason they gave you a helping hand to be able do so in the first place!

 

Om

Edited June 4, 2011 by 3bob

[mYTHmAKER]

When you find a teacher / guru

do not follow blindly

do not give away your power

use your discrimination.

[ChiDragon]

It seems to me it was all in your mind. Think positively, you like people and people like you.

 

Based on what you'd said: "This is due to the fact I believe people won't like me, I believe it vehemently, I have almost all of my life that I have memory for, and this presents a few problems: the guru wouldn't take me intrinsically, he wouldn't like me, furthermore, this being such a large block in my consciousness, he would turn me down because I am not ready, since I have this block."

 

Hence, you had reservation about the Guru. It is not going to help you in any way, I think. I think it would be a hurtle that you have to over come yourself. You must take the first initiative yourself to build up your own confidence. You must have a mind of your own to start with. It is because you can't rely on somebody else's mind to control your mind to tell you what to do all the time. Besides, any Guru might take advantage of your vulnerability. Why should you want a stranger to run your life...??? Please get a hold of yourself and be strong...!!!